Yesterday, the Catholic Herald published online the most recent interview of Cardinal Raymond Burke to date; this one conducted by Paolo Gambi.
These interviews always generate a fair amount of interest, but this one is getting more than its fair share of attention thanks to the click-worthy hook in its headline:
‘Perhaps we have arrived at the End Times’: an interview with Cardinal Burke
As any purveyor of “rapture” literature very well knows; the end times sell, baby!
We’ll return to the apocalyptic money quote momentarily. For now, however, I want to call your attention to the only truly noteworthy part of the interview. It reads in full:
PG Could you please give us an update on the “formal correction” [of Amoris Laetitia]?
CRB I cannot say too much. On November 14, it will be a year since the dubia were published. The whole question is still to be determined as to how to go forward, since we have not received any response at all, not even an acknowledgment of the dubia, which are very serious questions. I think I cannot say anything more than that right now.
A few observations…
First, clearly this interview was conducted several weeks ago. Since then, the one year anniversary of the dubia’s publication has passed by two weeks.
More relevant still, however, is the fact that more than fourteen months have passed since the dubia was delivered to both the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith and His Humbleness, Francis.
How many frequent flyer miles has Cardinal Burke logged since then? How many conferences has he given? How many interviews has he granted?
Don’t get me wrong, I applaud Cardinal Burke for co-authoring the dubia – something that I consider a minor miracle given the sad state of affairs in the Church today – but I am hard pressed to imagine a viable excuse for not having produced the “formal act of correction” that he promised so long ago.
This brings me to the only revelation provided in the interview.
Note very well that when Cardinal Burke says that it is unclear “as to how to go forward,” he is not speaking about the next step; namely, the aforementioned “correction.”
Just two days after making the dubia public, and this following two months of silence on Francis’ part after having received it, Cardinal Burke was already certain on this point.
This hasn’t changed.
In August he added a very interesting detail about the correction in yet another interview; this one with the Wanderer. He said that it would be “a formal declaration to which the Holy Father would be obliged to respond.” [Emphasis added]
In his response to Paolo Gambi, when Cardinal Burke states that it is “still to be determined as to how to go forward,” he means after the formal act of correction.
Apparently, one of the reasons he is uncertain on this point is because he is fairly confident that Francis will not uphold his obligation to respond to the correction.
How can he be so sure?
He tells us, “since we have not received any response at all…”
Furthermore, it is perfectly obvious that Cardinal Burke has little or no hope (nor should he) that Francis will do what he is duty bound to do; namely, teach the true faith. If he did have such hope, the correction would have already come.
In Cardinal Burke’s defense, we are indeed in uncharted territory.
Never before has a pope (if you will allow) so plainly, obstinately and notoriously taught heresy; utterly refusing to confirm his brethren (again, if you will allow) in the faith. The Church hasn’t definitively proposed a procedure for “how to go forward” in such a case.
That said, there is more reason to indict Cardinal Burke than there is to defend him.
It matters not one iota how, or even if, Francis will respond to the correction.
At this point, only the willfully blind and the woefully ignorant still deny that Jorge Bergoglio is a formal heretic. I am all but certain that any number of prelates, perhaps even Cardinal Burke among them, are privately convinced that this is the case.
Any legitimate questions they may have about what to do with the heretic from a procedural standpoint doesn’t alleviate them of their duty to publicly correct him for the good of the Church, her faithful, and indeed the entire world.
By analogy, the present situation is like a policeman who allows a gunman to massacre innocent people simply because he isn’t entirely sure where the jailhouse is located, but it’s actually much worse than that – the eternal life and the salvation of souls is at stake.
In a recent interview with Michael Matt, Bishop Athanasius Schneider said that those bishops alive today will be asked by Our Lord at their particular judgment:
“What have you done when there was confusion, why have you not raised your voice to defend the truth?”
Bishop Schneider is among the best of the sorry lot, to be sure, but I would suggest that he begin by looking in the mirror.
Yes, he has raised his voice more than most, but what exactly is stopping him from issuing a firm, public act of correction of his own?
Surely he understands that such a thing is necessary for the good of the faithful.
Could it be that he is reluctant to step on the two remaining dubia cardinals’ toes?
For his sake let us hope not.
Bear in mind, folks, a “cardinal” is not endowed with one drop more apostolic authority than any other bishop; in fact, a cardinal need not even be a bishop.
More than anyone else in the Church, every Successor to the Apostles has a solemn obligation to publicly condemn Amoris Laetitia, to publicly correct Francis, and to call on him in the name of Christ to reject his errors in confirmation of the true faith.
This includes, by the way, Bishop Bernard Fellay, Bishop Tissier de Mallerais, Bishop Alfonso de Galarreta, and every other bishop who fancies himself a defender of tradition.
Returning now to Cardinal Burke’s apocalyptic suggestion, I would remind him and indeed everyone reading this article that all of us are in our own “end times” and have been since birth; our days of mercy on earth are numbered and they are slipping away moment by moment.
Sitting back and waiting for Cardinal Burke, Cardinal Brandmuller or anyone else to act in the face of the Bergoglian assault against God and man is nothing more than a sign of a weak faith, ignorance, raw cowardice, or worse.
Whatever the case may be, Our Lord will judge.
May all of us tremble at the thought.
These Bishops have not been Faithful to defend Christ The King in smaller things.
How can they hope to Defend Him now in monumental things.
Especially the Bishops in the Neo SSPX !
They are all afraid of being labelled schismatics. But seriously, what other options do we have. As long as we allow these heretics to bear the title “Catholic” at will, the faithful Catholics disarm themselves of the only means of allowable resistance, namely “recognition.” As long as the faithful allow Bergolio to be Pope, he will be Pope. We all know that the true Catholic faith is held by such a small number. The average NO pew sitter is no longer Catholic, but some sort of quasi-protestant. Personally, I don’t think the prelates have the fortitude to do what must be done. But then again, most trads do not either.
As mentioned, they fear being the ones who’ll trigger schism.
Not of themselves of course, but of Francis going into schism. But here’s the rub – Francis will take the OVERWHELMING MAJORITY of Catholics with him. Many of whom are beyond reason.
He’ll take the buildings, the funds, EVERYTHING! The entirety of the US and the UN shall have his back.
And here’s the other part –
THIS IS WHAT FRANCIS WANTS.
He’s the one who stated, according to Der Spiegel- “It is not to be excluded that I will enter history as the one who split the Catholic Church.”
He’s predicted it coming. And he’s pressing forward.
Even the blood of St. Januarius half-liquefied in his hands to send a message.
Perhaps Burke might be wary of giving Francis what he wants and therefore hesitates, attempting to think of a better way around this strategically.
But perhaps there isn’t. The Devil is not bluffing. He believes he has a good hand and is putting his chips on the table. Will the Cardinal fold?
It also helps to know what we are dealing with. Someone needs to look into these particular claims:
Maybe what Burke needs to do and a charitable view of why he’s delaying is to find some roudabout way to put pressure on Francis. For example, this explosive book in Italy and coming soon in English might be the start of several higher profile shots.
The point being – to put Francis and the Vatican apparatus on the defensive on the stage of world opinion which they value so much before firing the formal correction.
Surround and flank the enemy on all sides. Then fire the bullets and arrows.
Perhaps the purported vision of the ‘bishop in white’ a man with the impression of being the Holy Father, and the ‘cadavers’ of clergy around him, which Fr. Gregory Hesse points out is a word usually associated with apostates and not saints and martyrs, is being fired upon by ‘soldiers’ who represent the True Church militant? Both those in the trenches and those who’ve perished hence why the angels are also collecting their blood?
Maybe that vision was actually one of hope and ultimate triumph? And this is why the modernists chose to bury the interpretation?
Spot on Louie. The requirement that the Cardinals need be the main actors in correcting Bergolio is a complete fiction. Every Bishop must individually make his choice now. This crisis is not going anywhere and it will come back to bite them sooner or later. ‘Decision by indecision’ is the standard operating manual of the Novus Ordo mush-mind mentality, but you will eventually make your decision either way. There is no avoiding it.
In defense of Cardinal Burke, I don’t think one can dismiss a situation about which no one wants to speak, a situation which can be very dangerous for any prelate to involve himself. What is that situation? THE INVALIDITY OF THE 2013 CONCLAVE THAT “ELECTED” FRANCIS!!! Just what does he who is in a way, a Lone Ranger do in such a complicated matter. Given the the invisible powers of hell having “infiltrated” the Church (Our Lady at Akita), the sodomite powers within the Vatican, the plotting St. Gallen Mafia members, the lack of courage on the part of MANY well-meaning Faithful, be they Prelates, Clergy or Intellectuals (who don’t want to lose their jobs), I wouldn’t want to be in Cardinal Burke’s shoes trying to figure out what to do. I think that all who see this post should pray–especially the Rosary, do penance and have Masses offered for Cardinal Burke. The ultimate fight is against Powers and Principalities who have a much greater ability as strategists than we human beings. The good Cardinal has need of Divine Help. Please pray for him!!!
That’s exactly right, cgib. Fellay and Co. should stand head and shoulders above the N.O. bishops, but they are now no better when it comes to fighting the V2 “church”. Have they made “a deal” without making “a deal”? What a pity!
“THIS IS WHAT FRANCIS WANTS”
Bingo! Spot On! We are dealing with a Heretical Pope at best and a full blown Apostate at worst. He is pushing the envelope to implode the Church. What Louie et al won’t venture to address is assuming Cdl Burke et al issue the formal correction. Question? So what? Who cares? Certainly not PF or his sycophants.
His will respond as always….SILENCE. Now what? The fact is we have be dealing with a Protestant version of the Catholic Church since Vatican 2. The human head of it has been formally rotten sense then. They are all partisans of Satan to varying degrees. PF is a full blown in your face heretic. So what? He’s a Liberal Marxist who excuses, minimizes, or allows mortal sins under the guise of “Mercy”. In the end he allows “private judgement” and situation ethics” to address the Big 3 sins of choice for liberals everywhere
….to wit…”Birth Control”, “Sodomy” and “Abortion”
There are very few practicing Catholics in comparison to the CINOS…including prelates and priests. To now expect them to stand up and be effective is like asking a former Olympic Sprint Champion to run the same time he did……50 years ago. In short? It ain’t gonna happen….barring a miracle from God.
How can “the prelates” do what must be done when they’ve been sell-outs for decades now?
Play out another scenario: the formal correction comes, makes headlines around the world. The Church is formally in schism. Where do we go? Would there be mutiny? Persecution? We know we must stay with the Vicar of Christ, but the Vicar has willfully renegade on his obligation to unite his brothers in the faith, while those who are trying to do so are accused of causing division. As confused as people are now, our situation now will be considered high-def compared to when the formal correction comes, not in and of itself, but because of the resulting chaos. I know it will come eventually, but I think we must prepare for what we do not expect. I don’t think Pope Francis will respond either, although I pray he does. We have woken up from the selfish slumbers of the 60’s, and are seeing the wreckage. I was born in the 60’s so I did not partake of the “revolution” at its birth.
For what it’s worth, I think God’s wrath will smash the FENCE, and all mankind will be forced to choose sides. He said He would separate sheep from goats. Prayer and penance that we will remain sheep.
If you were to use reason and logic, backed by facts and the traditional teachings of Holy Mother Church you could only conclude that Bergolio cannot be Pope of the Catholic Church since he does not hold the Catholic Faith.
It is the worst….he is a full blown apostate.”I believe in God, but not in a Catholic God. There is no ‘Catholic God’…” fulfills the classic definition of apostasy.
He’ll be proven to be the most corrupt man to sit in the Vatican since the Italian Renaissance. It will all come out eventually.
I’ll take corrupt over heretic any day.
Well that too….two for one special.
The SSPX leadership are in shell shock I think because the entire R&R position has collapsed around them. At least Fellay supported the most recent petition…..that itself was a miracle….sadly.
Schism means separation or division caused by two opposing beliefs. The Second Vatican Council resulted in the schism in the Catholic Church. There is no resemblance between the pre-Vatican II Church and the postconciliar “church”. It is accomplished. Francis is merely putting the icing on the cake.
Burke is cut from the same Modernist, Vatican II cloth as Francis and therefore impotent. He will need to convert to the Catholic Faith first.
With all due respect the great Saint Athanasius was a Lone Ranger, and despite all odds, even hiding from soldiers sent to kill him, he kept fighting for the faith. his faith never wavered because he trusted God more than man.
I don’t think the cardinal is facing such a danger, loosing his comforts yes but not his mortal life. If by chance his life is in mortal danger, would he risk salvation to avoid it?
In my humble opinion even martyrdom is ineffective today, seeing how the recent massive genocide in both the Middle East and Africa hasn’t given to a uprising among the faithful. Because the powers that be ( man ) dictate it to be so.
the big question here is,,,,, does he have strong enough faith like that of St Athanasius to trust that Almighty God will back him?… I suspect he don’t , and the reason why I say this, is because if St Athanasius was alive today he would throw the documents of Vat II into the trash can, burn it and launch a new council to correct the errors of the bad council. This needs to be done, but I don’t see such a thing happenening with the Cardinal as he backs the bad council.
As diabolic disorientation reigns supreme and as there will be no answer to the Dubia and no rescue from heretical ecclesiastics, I suggest a single (or series) of publicly announced Masses by willing cardinals, bishops, and priests (individually or collectively) throughout the world for the following intention:
“May Christ the King will swiftly rebuke Pope Francis for his manifest doctrinal errors and pastoral negligence and deliver His Bride, Our Holy Mother the Church, from him and all those who violate her.”
(Ref. “But Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing judgment, but said, ‘The Lord rebuke thee’.” Jude 1:9)
(“And they came to him, and awaked him, saying: Lord, save us, we perish. And Jesus saith to them: Why are you fearful, O ye of little faith? Then rising up he commanded (rebuked) the winds, and the sea, and there came a great calm.” Matthew 8:25-26)
Since it apparently pleases Almighty God to allow all present human efforts to fail in respect of recovering the Church for Christ the King perhaps it is time to show our Faith in our King and Eucharistic Lord to deliver His Bride.
It only takes one cardinal, one bishop, or one priest to offer such a public Mass.
Perhaps someone knows a willing priest who would put such an intention in the parish bulletin or newsletter?
Exactly, 2Vermont. It baffles me why so many trads look to Burke, Scheneider, and other men of the Council to fix the problems caused by the Council.
Exactly. He can’t be a St Athanasius because St Athanasius was actually Catholic.
The petition should read:
“May Christ the King swiftly rebuke Pope Francis for his manifest doctrinal errors and pastoral negligence and deliver His Bride, Our Holy Mother the Church, from him and all those who violate her.”
Apparently you were surprised that Bishop Fellay signed the petition. Many others (both supporters and non-supporters of the Society) were as well. That certainly was understandable. But your statement “The SSPX leadership are in shell shock I think because the entire R&R position has collapsed around them.” puzzles me. I really don’t understand what you meant by that statement.
I will readily acknowledge that there are consistent suggestions by some commenters on this website, as well as on SSPX-Resistance sites (mostly unsupported innuendo), that the SSPX is promoting a philosophy/theology that is other than to uphold the true teachings of the Catholic Church until that time that the Conciliar Church in Rome rejects the false teachings of Vatican II and the novus Ordo Mass. Is that what you are suggesting when you state that Recognize and Resist is collapsing around them? If so, what specific actions, statements, or philosophies of the SSPX have allowed you to draw this conclusion?
Of course, if that is not what you are suggesting then I am confused as to what, specifically, is collapsing around the SSPX that would leave them “shell shocked”. As a faithful member of an SSPX Chapel I ask these question with complete sincerity. If I have missed issues or matters of concern regarding the Society in my readings, I would hope that you would inform me.
Dear my2cents, 2Vermont, Tom A and kellyann: I suppose you consider Bishop Fellay SSPX a real hero, another St. Athanasious, since he’s trying to have the SSPX tucked under wings of Francis? Be careful how you judge others, for many times it ends up to be absolute calumny. I must say such stultiloquence, unfortunately, only serves to manifest your spiritually impoverished souls and minds.
If you haven’t heard, Cardinal Burke visited the Head of St. Thomas More just five days after he gave the most powerful and denunciatory speech I’ve heard or read from any Catholic Prelate in the last 20 years–BAR NONE. He has also given many talks on martyrdom in order to prepare the Faithful for when it comes to the western world in the form of the One World Order. To question whether he is willing to risk his life for the Faith when you have absolutely no idea of the character of that man, which amounts to rash judgment, to say the least. Beyond that, however, I would advise you all to begin thinking whether you yourselves would be able to die a martyr’s death. Remember, the Grace of Final Perseverance CANNOT BE MERITED!!! And you had better begin praying that God may grant it to you when the time comes for you to face martyrdom. Many there were in the early Church who changed their minds when they saw the axes, the lions, the archers; But today the instruments of death are far more developed and do not always hasten death!
Well said, Kellyann. Indeed, if St. Athanasius were alive today, he would be firm and would not be silent because of fear.
Calling a council or synod would be a good thing to do, but Cardinal Burke won’t do it, and I can’t think of any other of the Catholic hierarchy who would be brave enough to do so.
And…I don’t think that St. Athanasius called a Council, since most of the hierarchy were Arians. As today, when most of the hierarchy are Modernists, who would attend such a Council, which would have to be called to correct so many errors? I hope I’m wrong, and that at least one brave member of the hierarchy in the conciliar church will do the right thing (not sure what that would be though, except to directly confront the Pope with his heresies).
Or even if someone outside the conciliar church – SSPX, independent, or Resistance would actually DO something to defend the Faith – but I don’t see anyone from those ranks who will lead a saintly crusade for truth, that will make a great difference. Certainly not the SSPX (and I attend an SSPX chapel).
It’s not that the R&R position is wrong, it’s that bishop Fellay has left behind the mind of Archbishop Lefebvre) after the consecrations of 1988): No agreement with apostate Rome without a doctrinal agreement.
Frdbelland, I take it that you still labor under the illusion that those in the NO sect are Catholic.
I don’t see anyone. we are on our own which rings the words of Our Lady a true reality we live in right now. ” only she can help us. ” it’s Our Lady who will save the day not some man wearing the cloth.
Those who did and are raising up their voices are in lower ranks within the church. But I suspect it will get even worst than it is, before the triumph of Our Lady will over come n be seen, even by those who deny her and her message. Especially by the bishops who walk about carefully choosing their words to keep their positions on earth.
The only conclusion that can be drawn is clear from Our Lord . ” they will have no excuse.” So stop waisting your time making excuses in defence for anyone, it won’t hold water in heaven and that is what counts here. Heaven. Our God is the same God of eternity he has not changed, you’ve read what happened to the Jews when they turned their backs to God seeking their own means and other ways. It didn’t pan out very well for them. Do you think it will be any different for us? Naw it will be worst if anything because we are under the new n perfect covenant. We have no excuse.
Sadly I think Deep down we are all looking for a bishop or priest , someone who God will raise up to lead in defense n save the church from the onslaught of modernism. But it’s Our Lady we need to look to. Our faith is being tested, that I have no doubt, which is why Louie concludes his article with trembling thoughts. Dies Irae.
“Be careful how you judge others, for many times it ends up to be absolute calumny. I must say such stultiloquence, unfortunately, only serves to manifest your spiritually impoverished souls and minds.”
“To question whether he is willing to risk his life for the Faith when you have absolutely no idea of the character of that man, which amounts to rash judgment, to say the least.”
He may very well be willing to risk his life for his Vatican II faith, but that is not the same as risking his life for “the Catholic Faith”. Of course, doing the former does not = martyrdom.
I don’t recall if he had a council or not, but one thing is for certain his efforts helped the church turn back from the Arian errors. The church was Full of bishops who fell into the heresy. Likewise I’m sure he would do the very same thing again today with modernism, and seeing how we have no bishop out there strong enough to defend the faith, St Athanasius would surely do such a thing with the bad council and bad mass. The two things which were not in place at the time.
What I find very ironic is how some trads warn others of “judging” when the whole trad movement is based on the fact that Catholics judged for themselves that there was something wrong with V2 and NO. They then judged that they had a duty to resist those changes. Yet when a differing means of resistance is proffered (ie: sedevacantism) those folks are deemed “judgmental.”
“Anything but Sedevacantism!”
Is Frdbelland a traditional Catholic? If so, what kind? Within the conciliar structure (diocesan/ FSSP), SSPX, Resistance? Also, is he a “father”?
I recall a number of years ago , Cardinal Burke once said in one of his public presentations to Catholics ” to defend the faith even to the shedding of our blood” so if he tells cats to prepare for red martyrdom, surely it’s a ponder on his mind, now weither he is willing to do such a thing that’s not for any of us to decided. But after that presentation its quite clear martyrdom was something that came to his mind for the faithful at least.
I agree we do not know the character of the man, but his words and actions are open to us at least.
frdbelland–Why would we think of Bishop Fellay a hero for wanting to put the SSPX under the wings of Francis? That’s a very strange statement. Can you shed some light on that? Also, did you know that Burke says a bad N.O. “mess” is better than a TLM celebrated by an SSPX priest. What are your thoughts on that? Your statement sounds very judgemental, to say the least.
Pride and nothing else caused an angel to fall from heaven. And so one may reasonably ask whether one may reach heaven by humility alone without the help of any other virtue.
St John Climacus, The Ladder of Divine Ascent
Oh imagine the agony of those young maidens who defended the faith and defied the emperor , were tied by the arms to the horns of bulls and let loose in the arena trashing and breaking the bones of those young saintly girls they trashed about like rag dolls , and trampled on by the bulls ducking their heads to try and bead of the girls off with their hooves, not stopping until the bull was completely exhausted to the point where he simply gave up. Question how long can a bull buck until he can’t buck anymore? By then the girl hung dead from his horns.
You’ve seen what cowboys go through at stamepedes. How much more irritated were the bulls when a maiden was tied up on their horns and infront of their faces they couldnt fall off like a cowboy does.
I’m not made of martyrdom stock. Nor do I have the courage for such a task, only God can give a human being the strength to go through it, and it’s when humans prove their worth to defend the faith willingly to the shedding of their blood that God will give them the strength to endure it. Look at it as a form of penance. A cleansing or payment for the penalty of sin.
So the choice comes down to that moment, when your faced with a decision like they faced , either denounce the catholic faith or die. Who knows what will happen, some will choose to renounce the faith or some will choose to die for it, but you can’t determine what anyone else will do, you can only be concerned about yourself in such a situation and only focus on God not on others like the conciliar church promotes.
Back in those days, God rose up martyrs among souls who were least expected to die for the faith, and others who gave the impression to defend the faith backed out, surprise surprise!
Yeah! thats great questions you put forward there, I’d like to know his or her explanation. Especially Cardinal Burkes explanation of it.
You know Tom , it’s so sad to see all those NO church goers believing they are practicing something truly catholic, I was once one, I grew up in it. We are all victims here. Even after I left for many years and came back still fully ignorant of what was taking place, it’s thanks to the little pamphlets in the NO church vestibule that got me on track, and to attend the NO mass, there was still that sense something wasn’t right with it, and a deep sadness overcame me when I attended mass, one Easter Sunday I decided to move to the front right side of the alter where the tabernacle was place behind it to pray the rosary, there were children running up and down all around the alter as I was trying to pray the glorious mysteries, and the fathers came to sit in the pew infront of me and have a conversation while they watched their children running around the alter turned into a table. It was sorrowful n unjust behaviour. I couldnt focus on my prayers very well, across from me people came to sit and decided to stare at me praying the rosary. it was weird.
to say the least I was in shock for nearly two years after I begin to learn what was actually happening. Bear with them they need our prayers, Lord knows someone was praying for me which I’m truly gratefull for.
Now if you were lucky enough to avoid it and grew up on solid catholic tradition then My hats off to you, your a lucky fellow. We are not all so lucky.
Todays NO neo-caths have already compromised the faith with their pinch of incense to the Gods of Modernism. Why would anyone ever want to OR need to, die for relativism. It also must be said that dying rather than renouncing a false faith doesn’t make a martyr. And the V2 NO religion is a false faith.
Church Militant is reporting rather huge news regarding AI today. It is nothing short of breath taking.
Sorry for the typo: It should read: AL not AI.
I suppose I should add that this is far more breathtaking to one who is convinced that the NO-VII “church” is indeed the Catholic Church. What will they do now? If it’s “from the chair” they have to buy into it.
First there has been no agreement with the SSPX and Rome––despite the fact that the issue of regularization has been discussed for years. So disparaging the Society for what some believe is an abandonment of Archbishop Lefebvre’s goal is unsupported by the facts
The SSPX (through Father Gleize) has made it very clear that the Society will not enter into any agreement with Rome until the goal of SSPX is met. That goal, is not regularization of the Society. That may well be the goal of others, and an obviously acceptable benefit for the SSPX, but it is not their goal.The goal of the SSPX (and there is no reason to believe it is negotiable) in the negotiations with Rome is for Church in Rome to reject all of the false teachings of the Council, and to fully embrace all of the true teachings of the Church.
Now if that is what you meant by a “doctrinal agreement” we are in complete accord in that regard. But inasmuch as the above-stated goal of the SSPX was also the goal of Lefebvre, suggesting that Fellay is going on some different direction is without foundation––unless, of course, you can point to some information that would suggest otherwise.
my2cents, 2Vermont, Tom A and kellyann, I agree with frdbelland. Cardinal Burke needs our prayers and support. You criticize Burke, yet there’s no alternative emerging from the mists of pre-Vatican II to drive Pope Francis away before it’s too late. I implore all of us who know how the stake are to unite in prayer behind Cardinal Burke. The latest development — Pope Francis’s elevating his heresy about communion for the divorced and remarried to the level of magisterial teaching?! — is terrifying. We cannot afford to impose purity tests upon the few — the only? — who may be willing to denounce the evil man who has bragged about intending to divide the Church.
I know! That’s why I am begging all of us here to pray for Cardinal Burke. Please, please, we can sort out the N.O. issue later…if we don’t deal with Pope Francis’s heresy NOW…I shudder. Please, everyone, pray…
Dear utahagen: many thanks for the support for Cardinal Burke; may Our Divine Lord and His Immaculate Mother reward you for your charity and wisdom with many Graces and ultimately Eternal Happiness.
Yes, utahagen, you’re right. Besides the sedes, whose great intellect has it all figured out, we all are affected and admittedly confused by the massive tower of Babel that God has punished us with here and now. That much I know. We DO have to pray for Cardinal Burke and all our good priests who have been doing their best to guide their sheep and preserve the faith amidst this demonic infiltration within the Church, as She is undergoing Her own passion. Our Lady will help us for sure.
And, yes, our days of mercy ARE here, and ARE now, and ARE numbered, as Louie stated and as I recently heard in a sermon, and our own judgement by Our JUST Lord IS imminent, as is our final judgement. We all need that reminder constantly. Imagine that. It is quite scarey when you actually think about it. Pray for Cardinal Burke.
The time of mercy is now for us, the Church Militant. After this time here is over, mercy time is over. The Justice of God is all we have then. Yikes. Right? Pray for Cardinal Burke. That could only help our souls and his. We are all here together now. Yes, this motly crew. You too, sedes. Sorry you can’t escape. You’re in here with us too. Sometimes I just wanna give you all a bunch of nuggies though.
Most people do not realize that post Vat2 ,the introduction of the NO was not all that clear cut. in many Diocese it was a constantly evolving entity
that brought with it heretical catechisms like,”Christ Among Us”and others and then a thousand and one different Movements or “Apostolates”along with a plethora of strange apparitions and locutionists, healers and charlatans !
Fractured Catholicism with a plethora of schisms designed to confuse so that we all wonder ,”Isn’t anyone Catholic anymore”? How can we call Catholic ( meaning universal in Belief ) by the name it used to signify centuries ago ?
Indeed Francis IS the icing on the cake.
I believe Mary Therese Helmueller was placed in a situation to make a judgement call on the then Bishop Burke after he made her a persona non grata in most parishes.
“In January, 2003, a concerned parishioner from St. Paul, Minnesota notified us that a transsexual (man to woman) had been a religious Catholic sister for 18 years, ten years in the Milwaukee Diocese under Bishop Weakland in a women’s Franciscan order. Then in 1993 this transsexual nun went to the LaCrosse Diocese under the Bishop and received permission to found his/her own religious Catholic Women’s Order called “Franciscan Servants of Jesus”. On October 4, 1997 Bishop Raymond L. Burke elevated the order and was going to hear the final vows of Sr. Julie Green (Joel Green) on November 23, 2003.
The concerned parishioner sent copies of all papers that had been collected on Sister Julie to various authorities in Rome, but received no reply. Finally, the parishioner went to Rome and only when publicity was given to the case, was any action taken by the Church. Bishop Burke commented in a letter dated January 27, 2003 that unfortunately the situation had been publicized, denied that Sister Julie became a nun or was the mother superior of the religious order, and that “…such a person has been unable to emit valid vows except to the sex of his or her birth”.
At the time when all this went down, what was the Vatican’s position on persons who had had their ‘sex changed’? In the article below from Catholic World News, we have sex change operations ruled invalid by the Vatican in 2000. So pre-October 1997 when then Bishop Burke consulted with the Vatican about founding the Franciscan Servants of Jesus did it slip his mind to ask whether or not to find out if it was OK for a man posing as a woman to be one of the founders of the Order? Did he think it perfectly alright? Or was he in the dark about ‘Sister Julie’ Green?
If the then Bishop Burke was in the dark about Joel Green posing as a female nun in his diocese, the best case scenario is that Burke is an inept leader. If he wasn’t then…
This isn’t the only scandal to be associated with Burke. There were his denials of sex abuse under his watch, the messy matter with the bizarre (and non-Catholic) St. Stanislaus Kostka Church, and his appointing the sex-abusing priests of Institute of Christ the King Sovereign Priest to his diocese. Not to mention his practicing religious rituals of the Talmud. We at Call Me Jorge… believe Burke to be a false ‘traditionalist’ and the above demonstrates it. He is a modernist!
We predict there will be no schism in the Novus Ordo caused by Cardinal Burke as he will go along with everything Francis does even if he might grumble about it. Recall what Burke wrote in February 2014 in L’Osservatore Romano, his position is still the same today. In fact we believe he will help Francis merge the Latin Mass & the Novus Ordo. ” http://www.traditioninaction.org/Questions/B988_Nun.html
The shock is that an open apostate cannot be viewed as the Vicar of Christ, much less a member of the Catholic Church in good standing (which is a basic reauirement for being pope). Bergolio is that flagrant apostate and he is now attacking basic Catholic morality. The logic of the R&R position that conciliar popes are just misguided or bad popes cannot last. This iteration of conciliar popes are full bore turning the Conciliar Church into the Church of England, can the SSPX still claim the Pope is the Pope when this is happening? I believe Archbishop Lefevbre would have denounced Bergolio as an antipope by now.
I pray for his conversion as I do for all those stuck in the church that calls itself “Catholic”.
Burke is compromised by agreeing to become a Cardinal in a Church that officially rejects being the Catholic Church in its founding documents (Lumen Gentium and Unitatis Redintegratio) of course he is a thereby duplicitious and ineffective. Any modernist who took a role in the Conciliar Church will be judged by Our Lord; they all compromised themselves by rubber stamping the new religion with an aura of authority and respectability.
Yes, we are all in this together. We are all waiting for a true pope. It’s just that some of us recognize that and others do not. Recognizing that fact doesn’t fix things, but at least it doesn’t perpetuate or make the problem worse.
I was once an “anything but sede” too….but facts are facts. Bergolio is not the Pope under any Catholic measure. As a Catholic one abides by faith and reason or one retreats into cuckoo land. The sede argument was proven correct by Bergolio against the express position of the “BXVI renaissance” R&R Trads were assuring us of. That we ended up with Bergolio also places the other Conciliar Popes in doubt, because He is their creation and the logical end point of their efforts since 1959. The fact Ratzinger could a dicate so easily and not have any issue with Bergolio’s apostasy if proof of this fact—-they are all charlatans at heart.
The poster doesn’t appear to like to answer questions.
Has anyone read the comments on this article at CM? No wonder why its called diabolical disorientation. Everyone is making a zillion excuses as to why they don’t have to assent to what a Pope teaches. There’s a word for that—protestant.
What’s truly breathtaking is that Michael Voris and his “Church Militant” are actually writing something negative about their pope!
The Novus Ordo is the “whore of Babylon” “drunk with the blood of the martyrs”because they have showered scorn on the very idea of martyrdom and rendered their virtue meaninless. If prosthelytism is “solemn nonesense”then Catholic martyrdom is surely ‘senseless madness’, Why should my English ancestors have suffered and died for the Faith when the Conciliar Popes tell us that the Church of England was Christian all along and in fact part of their pan-religious Super Church? They themselves say they do not believe in “an ecumenism of return”? Why die for the Faith when Luther himself is commemorated as a Saint by Bergolio?
Excellent reminders. We should all keep in mind that despite his concern over communion for adulterers he has been completely silent on the rest of Francis’ words and actions. for example, where was he when it came to celebrations of the Reformation and Luther? Crickets because he is also a man of the Vatican II faith, not the Catholic Faith.
Caimbeul, I would disagree. Every sede priest and bishop has done something about the crisis. They have warned us to leave the false modernist religion since it is no longer Catholic. Yet the vast majority of trads will not undo the chains that bind them to a false faith. You simply will not allow your will to advance your intellect to the logical conclusion. You want your Pope and no amount of evidence will convince you we don’t have one. We sede’s too want a Pope. We pray for a Pope, but Bergolio is not Catholic and cannot be the Pope.
Diagnosing the problem is always the first step.
Bring it On. Maranatha! Dont want to live to old age anyhow. The End is nigh Deo Gratias.
“What is that situation? THE INVALIDITY OF THE 2013 CONCLAVE THAT “ELECTED” FRANCIS!!!”
Ah….A Novus Ordo Resignationist.
Well said 2Vermont. There are no “winners” in the post Conciliar world. Every Catholic on earth has suffered as a result. Like the Great Western Schism there are sincere Catholics who are deceived by bad shepherds found on all sides. We did not create this mess, our Apostate hierarchy did. People resent us merely for pointing out clear facts. I believe that many of our detractors will be thanking us later for having the will to speak very unpopular truths. I know I am thankful to those who schooled me.
Yes, indeed we are all in this together and most of us are people of good will. Therefore, the solution is the same for all of us: we must all pray and storm heaven with our penances. Our Lord will sort this out and work His plan. He has not been taken by surprise in any of this! “I believe I will see the good things of the Lord in the land of the living. Expect the Lord, do manfully and let thy heart take courage and wait thou for the Lord” as Psalm 26 says at its conclusion.
utahagen, since you agree with frdbelland, perhaps you could answer my questions posted above to frdbelland which he has not yet addressed. Thank you.
Thank you for taking the time to respond to my question. There is much confusion we all know, and unfortunately, that confusion is evident among even those who strive to understand and follow the true teachings of the Catholic Church. As a member of an SSPX Chapel, hopefully it is understandable that I am very defensive when I read criticism directed against that organization, but I do understand that almost all who so engage, do so in good faith. I do not doubt for a moment that we are all seeking the same end––for the leaders of the Church to return to the Catholic faith as it existed before the Second Vatican Council.
Nevertheless, if I understand the concern you are raising with respect to the SSPX, it is that the Society is unwilling to publicly denounce Pope Francis as a heretic. And while It may be presumptuous on my part, I might assume that such a position would win your support for the society. But the SSPX has not down so and continues to rely on the teaching attributed to St Ambrose, “where Peter is, there is the Church”, rather than accept the reasoning developed by others who point to Amoris Laetitia and denounce him as a heretic. As an aside, but in that regard, it should not be ignored that many of Pope Francis’ accusers would likely be willing to withdraw their charges against him––if only he would simply recant what he has written in Amoris Laetitia. I have no doubt that the surviving authors of the Dubia would fall into that camp.
But what is the significance of the support Pope Francis continues to give for the heretical teachings in Vatican II? Are those heresies not as important as the heretical proposition set out in Amoris Laetitia? One would think so, as a persuasive case could be made that they are much worse. Most certainly they have been far more destructive to the Church than Amoris Laetitia which was limited to the heresy of allowing the married-divorced to receive Holy Communion. In fact, even the impact of that heresy is further almost entirely limited to the married-divorced who obstinately refuse to go through the post-Vatican II exercise of seeking an “annulment” (very likely heretical as well), as almost all annulments are routinely granted.
The Sedevacantists (of which I am not one) tell us that every elected pope since Pope Pius XII (save and except Pope John Paul I) has been an anti-pope. They argue that they are all heretics because they embrace the false and heretical doctrines devised during the Second Vatican Council. Many of us who are not of their company scoff at their reasoning and criticize them as being almost anti-Catholic.
Yet today, many traditional Catholics who deny Sedevacantism, are arguing that Pope Francis is an anti-pope because there is evidence that he is a heretic. Perhaps that charge would be more accurately stated if we said there is “more evidence”, because indeed, if we correctly believe that many of the teachings of Vatican II are heretical, then Pope Francis was a heretic even before Amoris Laetitia. But yet, all save the Sedevacantists are silent on that point.
Whether Pope Francis or any of his predecessors are or were heretics is far beyond my limited abilities to state with any absolute certitude. Does it appear that Pope Francis and the others are all heretics to me? Sure, and for many reasons. But that’s nothing more than my opinion. We all have our opinions, much the same as Archbishop Lefebvre had his opinion on that issue. Why did he not openly denounce Pope John Paul II and other popes as heretics? He certainly hinted at it, but he never actually pulled the trigger. So whether one wants to accept his position and reasoning on that issue (I do) or not, it is not wholly irrational nor clearly anti-Catholic. And, inasmuch as the SSPX is the order founded by Archbishop Lefebvre, they are apparently following his lead.
No Utahagen, Bergolio’s heresies are a direct result of the NO V2 hereies. This is what many have been saying for decades but were marginalized by the conciliar conservatives. Trads should not get involved in the NO sects civil war between conservatives like Burke and progressives like Bergolio. We simply do not have a dog in their fight. So my prayer for Burke is the same as it is for Bergolio and all other heretics. That they may convert to the Catholic faith which is required to be held for salvation. The faith that does not exist in the NO world. We argue all the time as to who is Pope and who is not. I would love to hear from those who think Bergolio is pope and Ratzinger was/is pope, explain to me how the NO church is Catholic. Just how do you come to the conclusion that what was taught before the Council is the faith taught after the Council? If you admit that it has changed, then how do you conclude that the Church can teach a false faith?
Kellyann, what you write is basically my story too. I too left the Church and when I came back, I knew something wasn’t right. It had to be grace that led me to tradituon. With Ratzinger as pope, I had hope that things might be fixed one day. But when Bergolio usurped the chair, I had to really begin to examine the Catholic faith and its long history. It took me a few years to convince myself that it was not sinful to attend an SSPX chapel. But as I learned about the genesis of the SSPX, I also learned of the heresy that is modernism. It didnt take much time to draw the only necessary conclusion. Modernists are heretics and therefore not Catholic. It really is quite simple.
And sedevacantists do not hold the Catholic faith either. To belong to the do-nothing-but-complain church of sedevacantism, well, it requires very little to join; all one needs to do is to give up their Catholic faith, and try to force others to do the same. Simple.
What article of Catholic faith do sedevacantists reject?
Michael Voris/Church Militant: the blind leading the blind.
All these varied heresies throughout history tend to have originated near the top – elitist snob theologians , canon lawyers, worldly bishops, professors and other varied religious hucksters. The simple people retain their faith even when the so-called shepherds flee… in other words… though you are on your own folks, you are probably just as well off..
Well, Bishop Fellay signed the “Correctio Filialis”, something that nobody in the Strict Observance has done, so what’s your point? We know that Saint Francis said that Our Lord would send a destroyer for a Pope. I don’t see how a bunch of false mini popes (Pulvermacher or the one in Delia, Kansas, who isn’t even a priest and lives with his mother, LOL) can restore the Church. As Mariana Barthold just said in “Our Lady…”: “Lastly, as members of the Church Militant, we must accept our responsibilities, as well as our culpabilities, especially in light of Our Lady of Fatima’s final words on Oct. 13, 1917: “People must amend their lives and ask pardon for their sins. DO NOT AFFECT THE LORD OUR GOD ANY LONGER; HE IS ALREADY DEEPLY OFFENDED.
With that I’ll be signing off, “the number of fools is infinite”
What is your point?
You are where I was not so long ago regarding the SSPX. It was almost 20 years ago when I re-discovered the True Catholic faith through this priestly society. It was difficult to contain my joy and I jumped in with both feet getting involved in every way possible. I participated in pilgrimages, processions, conferences etc. offering spiritual, emotional and financial support. I was totally immersed in the cause to “restore all things in Christ”. Putting aside Bishop Fellay’s obvious kowtowing to a pope who is without doubt “heretical”, it was the unfortunate and inexcusable behavior within the SSPX and certain parishioners in the chapel I attended where the “circular firing squad” was in full swing. It was difficult to walk into the doors without having to dodge bullets. It would be very impudent to go into details. So I will leave you with this thought. I envy you and your family and hope you never have to experience the uncharitable behavior which was caused and tolerated by the SSPX leadership. Please do not think hard of those who have lost their trust in the organization they once truly loved. God bless you and yours.
The sedevacantists reject the dogma that we must be subject to the pope. The dogma says nothing about not having to be subject to him if he’s a heretic. But you know that.
I will never join the sedevacantist church, which is evil, because it tries to force Catholics to leave the Catholic faith, which is a mortal sin.
The sedevacantists just whine and complain, which isn’t really doing anything at all. And they attempt to lure Catholics away from the Church. They are woefully misguided.
The do-nothing-but-complain Pharisedes patrol these articles, and are relentless in their quest of getting Catholics to join their false church. They have nothing useful to say about what Louie writes, except the I-told-you-so attitude.
At least cardinal Burke has done something to confront our idiot pope. The non-Catholic sedes have not done that. It would require bravery to do that. And they (you) are weak.
If you are going bash sedes, at least take the time to know what you are bashing. No sede rejects the need to be subject to the Pope. We reject the claimant to the office. Many times in history there was confusion as to who was the legitimate occupant of the See and many Saints failed to back the true Pope. The actual teaching of the Church is to have nothing to do with heretics as taken from St Paul’s warning that even if it appears that an angel from heaven …etc etc. As to the rest of your screed, well it still doesn’t tell anyone what articles of faith sedevacantists reject.
Please delete if inappropriate. I just cant help but laugh at this, I hope that doesn’t make me terrible. Unfortunately it seems like an accurate representation.
I’d have thought the Cardinals would have considered the possibility of no response before they issued the Dubia. I agree that this looks like them having to confront the invalidity of Bergoglios election in 2013 and recognition that Benedict remains Pope. So maybe this is what stops Burke moving forward?