Another interview of Cardinal Raymond Burke has just been published; this one with the internet outlet Thinking with the Church.
You can read the interview in its fullness there. Here, I’d like to touch on what strikes me as the most intriguing part.
Turning the conversation toward the Epistle of Jorge Bergoglio to the Luciferians (otherwise known as Amoris Laetitia), the interviewer states:
You have yourself made statements to suggest that the document itself is perfectly amenable to a perfectly orthodox interpretation, but that there are, as a matter of fact, others out there, that are not so much so, and you’ve asked the Holy Father to clear this up for us.
To which Burke replied in the affirmative.
Let’s stop here for a moment to make sure we understand exactly what it being said…
Amoris Laetitia, which plainly says that adultery is at times “the most generous response which can be given to God,” and even that this is “what God himself is asking,” is “perfectly amenable to a perfectly orthodox interpretation”?
OK then, let me be perfectly clear:
Anyone who promotes this idea is a tool in the hands of the Devil; willing or otherwise. (In the present case, I am pleased to assume it is the latter, but either way, this is pure evil.)
Burke goes on:
The Holy Father says himself – in the document – that he’s not presenting the Magisterium – it’s a kind of reflection – and the language is often times imprecise, and there aren’t a lot of citations of the tradition regarding the teaching regarding Holy Matrimony and on the Holy Eucharist, and so I say the document is acceptable if the key to interpreting it is what the Church has always taught and practiced, and this is where the debate comes in, because there are other people who are saying – including Cardinals – “No, this represents a completely new approach.”
I find this rather interesting…
Attentive readers will notice that this defense of Amoris Laetitia and its author is very similar to that which was proposed by Fr. Jean-Michel Gleize of the Society of St. Pius X, who wrote:
Chapter Eight of Amoris laetitia is defined, like the others, by the fundamental intention assigned by the Pope to the whole text of the Exhortation, which is “to gather the contributions of the two recent Synods on the family, while adding other considerations as an aid to reflection, dialogue and pastoral practice” (paragraph no. 4). Therefore we find here neither more nor less than matter for reflection, dialogue and practice. That is not material for clear-cut denial or calling into question.
What Fr. Gleize is saying is that, in light of the stated intention of its author, the contents of Amoris Laetitia cannot be considered heretical.
Cardinal Burke is saying essentially the same thing; namely, given that Francis is only offering material for reflection, the text is by default “acceptable” provided that one derives its meaning, not by what it objectively states, but rather in line with “what the Church has always taught and practiced.”
At this, I have to wonder:
Are Cardinal Burke and the SSPX working together; in some way coordinating their efforts in crafting their respective approaches toward Francis and their responses to Amoris Laetitia?
It is certainly possible.
For years, Bishop Fellay has made mention of certain unnamed cardinals in the Roman Curia who, behind the scenes, are supportive of the Society. It is no secret that Cardinal Burke has long been among them.
In any case, this particular approach to Amoris Laetitia, wherein Francis’ intentions are being cited as justification for downplaying the gravity of the situation, lies at the very heart of the responses offered by both the SSPX and Cardinal Burke – the most visible of the Dubia Brothers.
As such, this argument merits our closest attention.
Very recently, I was contacted privately by a priest of the Society who offered a defense of the position taken by Fr. Gleize (and shared by Cardinal Burke); namely, that Francis’ intentions are truly relevant to the present discussion.
I firmly rejected that position in a post HERE; citing Ludwig Ott’s Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma, which states:
“In deciding the meaning of a text the Church does not pronounce judgment on the subjective intention of the author, but on the objective sense of the text.”
While protecting the identity of this kindly priest, here I paraphrase his thoughts; with the idea in mind that they represent what is perhaps the best possible defense of the SSPX / Burke position:
“Stated intentions” and “subjective intentions” are two different things. A stated intention is what an author establishes as the key to interpret his words, while the subjective intention is what he really wants to say in those words.
The latter is beyond our knowledge as only God can judge that intention, but the former is part of the fact and so has to be used in our judgment of a given affirmation.
If the stated intention is not to affirm something but just to gather ideas, we cannot give the text the marking of a heresy, even if it is against dogma, as it is not pertinacious.
That is why the note of favens haeresim (promoting heresy) is the correct one.
In response to this, I would propose that while a distinction may be made between the subjective intention and the stated intention of an author, neither one has any bearing “on the objective sense of the text.”
Furthermore, no author (not even a pope) has the right to provide their own, personally crafted, interpretive key to words that treat of matters of faith and morals. Such texts must always be evaluated objectively in the light of sure and immutable Catholic doctrine.
For instance, imagine that a text is authored for individuals preparing for their first Confession, and it contains the statement:
“As an aid to reflection and as a help and encouragement (the stated intention found in AL 4 as cited by both Fr. Gleize and Cd. Burke), it is useful to reflect on the Blessed Virgin Mary’s humility in acknowledging her own sins; after all, even she bore the stain of original sin.”
As all reasonable observers would presumably agree, the stated intention of the author in this case in no way changes the objective sense of the text; i.e., it does not render it something other than heresy.
I might also add that while it is charitable to accept that Francis’ stated intention in Amoris Laetitia is subjectively true, we cannot know for certain that this is the case; e.g., he may have other intentions that have not been stated.
So, while we can say that it is “part of the fact” that the stated intention (in AL paragraph no. 4) reads “XYZ,” we cannot conclude that “XYZ” is “fact” (or the whole truth) as such.
So, even in this we must defer to the judgment of God, and all that is left for us to consider is… you guessed it – matters objective.
With this in mind, I believe it is fair to say that when Ott states that “the Church does not pronounce judgment on the subjective intention of the author,” we can take that to include a stated intention as well.
It has elsewhere been suggested to me by another defender of Fr. Gleize that [and I’ll quote my interlocutor directly in this case] “a pope’s intention, that is, his subjective intention, is not merely what he personally thought when writing, but it has another aspect – it is the authoritative declaration of objective intention.”
Certainly, intention with respect to the doctrinal weight and the relative “bindingness” that a pope wishes to assign to a given text is a legitimate consideration, but the “objective sense of the text” itself is another matter altogether.
The bottom line is simply this:
Either a given text objectively constitutes “a rejection or contradiction of a truth that is not only revealed but also proposed as such by an infallible act of the ecclesiastical Magisterium” (to quote Fr. Gleize) or it does not.
Lastly, I would also point out with regard to Fr. Gleize’s article (as well as the dubia), the immediate purpose is not ordered toward establishing pertinacity, properly speaking; it is simply a matter of evaluating the “meaning of the text” of Amoris Laetitia.
A given text may very well contain heresy, and yet upon inquiry it may be discovered that the author is simply mistaken, is willing to make corrections in order to bring the text in line with Catholic doctrine, and therefore is not pertinacious.
Setting aside for the present the uniqueness of addressing papal texts, this is how ecclesiastical censures generally proceed:
- Rome determines the objective meaning of a given text.
- If at odds with Catholic doctrine, the author is confronted with the relevant teachings.
- It is thus discovered whether the author is able to either defend his text, or is willing to make the necessary corrections.
- If either one of these things takes place; problem solved. If not, the condition of the author is made plain and it is addressed accordingly.
Simple. Chronological. Straightforward.
We need to be very clear on this point as it seems lost on even intelligent, faithful men:
The objective meaning of a text is one thing; the state of the author (e.g., concerning matters of intention, possible notoriety, pertinacity, etc.) is another.
Thus far, Cardinal Burke and the SSPX are making a mortal mess of step #1 and bending over backwards to avoid stating the obvious:
Objectively speaking, and without a shadow of doubt, key portions of the text of Amoris Laetitia constitute blasphemy and heresy.
Until such time as that changes and they are willing to plainly condemn Amoris Laetitia for what it truly is, neither one is going to offer any meaningful opposition to Francis and his unprecedented program of destruction.
I should like to ask Cardinal Burke & Fr. Gleize SSPX: When does a reflection or opinion of a Pope become binding? This is the whole crux of Amoris Laetitia. Cardinal Schönborn has stated that it is binding & therefore becomes part of the ordinary magisterium which does away with the Unity of the CC, as different Bishops’ Conferences are now allowed to ‘discern’ what is a mortal sin & what isn’t in their own Dioceses & scuppers three of the Sacraments of the Church – Penance, Matrimony & the Eucharist.
Until this question is answered there will be nothing but disarray. As PF is presently the holder of the Papal Office it falls to him to sit on the Throne of Peter & speak authoritatively on his apostolic exhortation & not leave it to his mouthpieces to decide the issue which will not go away until he does.
Never, never, never stop proclaiming the simple truth about AL. It ain’t rocket science. Al is heretical and blasphemous and takes a sledgehammer to Jesus’ words. Keep standing up for Our King, Louie.
And while you are at AL, dont forget all the heresies from B16, JP2, P6, and J23.
Isn’t promoting heresy a mortal sin? Doesn’t even that “lesser” charge call for public correction? Why would one promote heresy if one was not a heretic to begin with? If promoting heresy is due to insanity or stupidity, wouldn’t that make the Bergoglio unfit for office?
I think Cardinal Burke and Fr. Gleize’s opinions deserve to be taken seriously. Calling them tools of the devil shows how low those using such invective have sunk, nothing more.
In certain circles, “heresy” (like “fascist”) has simply become a loosely used club to beat those who dissent with the self-congratulatory echo chamber.
Key word Prof Q, “dissent.” Yes those who are beat with the H word deserve it because they do in fact “dissent.” They dissent from Catholic dogmas. Plus they all promote a new religion. They “dissent” from the faith as taught for generations and impose a new faith. I don’t have to beat them with the H club, they proudly wear their “dissent” medal around their neck as a badge of honor to tell the decadant world that they are enlightened too.
How does your comment apply to, say, Pope John Paul II?
Regarding JP2—-“ASSISI”! All “religions” are valid! What happened to the First Commandment???
Non sequitur.
It applies to “dissent”. If the scandalous “Assisi” event wasn’t dissent, what is?
I believe JP2 dissented from traditional Catholic teaching on several fronts. The 1983 Code of Canon Law opens the door to communion for non-catholics to recieve the Eucharist, the 1986 Assissi gathering went against centuries of Catholic teaching about worshipping with non-Catholics, and his appointments of bishops and cardinals show he has no problem with other dissenters. I am sure there are many more examples. In short, the body of evidence one can amass against JP2 easily shows he has deviated from the faith as taught for generations. The same can be said for all the conciliar popes.
Professor? Given the state of “higher education” today I suppose anything is possible.
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In any case, apparently reading comprehension isn’t among your specialties, so let me make it easy for you:
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Anyone who promotes the idea that adultery is at times “the most generous response which can be given to God,” and even that this is “what God himself is asking,” or defends this odious proposition as being “perfectly amenable to a perfectly orthodox interpretation” is a tool of the Devil; even if only unwillingly. This obviously doesn’t pertain to Fr. Gleize.
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As for the point itself, if you wish to make the case that such persons are doing the Lord’s bidding (as opposed to that of His adversary), go right ahead, but don’t kid yourself: It’s either one or the other.
So what about the couples married under the SSPX, SSPV or Sedevacantist chapels? Are they or are they not in an irregular situation? Are they willing to live as brother and sister until a reunion is worked out? The reason the SSPX is being prudent here is that their own position vis-a-vis this issue is fragile indeed. Glass houses, stones, you get the idea. Prudence is the mother of all virtues.
I believe that old Louie is educated beyond his intelligence. Time to pack it in with your less than average theological abilities. Sorry mate, you lose.
There are no more irregular situations. AL and Bergolio and the Maltese “bishops” and the vast majority of modernist Rome now considers all stable unions as pleasing to God. Your average NO pewsitter sees nothing wrong with cohabitation or gay “marriage.” The writing is on the wall. All of these “irregular unions” are on the path to normalization. Burke and a few crusty cranky conservatives are not going to turn the tide. If you want to hitch your wagon to this sinking ship, who calls themselves catholic, go right ahead. You will be sucked under and drowned along with them.
AL like most of what comes from Francis is objectively evil, against God, the Faith, Holy Mother Church and the good of souls. But no bishop, including from the FSSPX, condemn the evil and tell souls to condemn it, and protect those souls under their care or influence from this constant attacker against God, Faith, morals and souls.
Isn’t it all so diabolic? We know how virulently almost any Pope prior to 1958 would condemn the countless evil acts of Francis, publicly announced with no apology.
History says you are wrong.
I think it would be prudent on your part to leave the question of winners or losers to our own particular judgment, as well as the Last one.
Care to explain… why?
C’mon Gwaredd, show us some of that fine intelligence you are hoarding for yourself!
It’s getting so you can tell rather easily when trolling at political and news sites is being done by Soros’ minions or the uninformed activists of the “religion” of socialism. Am I getting a whif of late of a cadre of professional modernists similarly, strategically infecting traditional sites with the talking points of the increasingly well-oiled Vatican social media propaganda machine? One would have to be highly motivated to spend so much time spouting contrarianism to an audience that has absolutely no possibility of being convinced by arguments that are the product of a half century of a modernist cult that has no relationship to the true Church established by Christ our Lord.
It seems that the SSPX and Cardinal Burke are bending over backwards to deny the obvious. AL is heretical and a scandal to the Faithful. However we must recognize that this is not a new development but has been going on for decades in regard to the heresies of the false Conciliar Church. For the SSPX it has been a gradual but persistent path of compromise with doctrine. You can’t convince them since they have based their convictions on Archbishop Lefebvre and the writings of Michael Davies instead of the teachings of Popes, the theologians of the Church, the Councils (obviously excepting the Vatican 2 “popes” and VC 2.)
Spread the news! The good Archbishop was not infallible and vacillated about the proper identification of the false popes Paul and John Paul. He ought to have rejected their office completely. Michael Davies erred terribly especially regarding the new Mass and new rites of the counterfeit Church. Until these two leaders in tradition are reevaluated the path of compromise will continue and will lead to a bad end
Wow, GT: care to be a l i t t l e more specific? Truth is always the winner and I find it hard to see how you are advancing in that direction. “Yes, yes and no, no” seem to be more in the area of logic, if not common sense. If so, our Lord and Savior and St. Paul are in … trouble?