“Some are asking if he’s America’s Pope Francis.”
So began Norah O’Donnell’s November 30th interview of Archbishop Blasé Cupich on Face the Nation.
It was a cringe worthy spectacle indeed as the recently appointed Ordinary of Chicago – sporting the standard issue, post-Vatican II, episcopal business suit with a pectoral cross (presumably) neatly tucked out of plain sight – spoke far more like a seasoned politician stumping for swing votes than a Successor to the Apostles engaged in the evangelizing mission of the Church.
As for Blasé Cupich being “America’s Pope Francis,” I’d say there appears to be considerable merit to the idea given the fact that he, just as the real Bergoglio so often does, carefully avoided any mention of Jesus Christ throughout the entire course of his ten minutes of national air time.
In any case, the portion of the interview that has garnered the most attention, and rightly so, was Cupich’s comments concerning Communion for pro-abortion politicians.
After pledging his undying commitment to Almighty “dialogue,” he said:
The Eucharist is an opportunity of grace and conversion. It’s also a time of forgiveness of sins. So my hope would be that that grace would be instrumental in bringing people to the truth.
As others have already pointed out, this is a complete inversion of Church teaching as seeking forgiveness is the gateway to Holy Communion; not vice versa.
For my part, I’d like to take a look at some of the less-discussed portions of the interview, with the horrifying thought in mind that Blasé Cupich is perhaps representative of the kinds of men, with an occasional anomaly thrown in here or there, whose stock will continue to rise during the pontificate of Pope Francis; while the Raymond Burke’s of the world are either intimidated into silence or simply put out to pasture.
These would be the very same men who, arguably, given a Franciscan reign of just several more years, may very well find themselves in a position to steer the overall direction of the Universal Church for decades to come as they go on to appoint seminary rectors and vocations directors; some taking up positions in the Roman Curia, and others being granted the privilege of wearing the red hat.
Speaking for himself and no doubt other Bergolgians, Archbishop Cupich expressed his intention to emulate the popular Pontiff ever more closely moving forward.
What I find to be very interesting in the Francis effect as people call it, is that people do have a sense that the church is listening to them, and also that he is speaking to their deepest desires … And so, he is trying to make sure that we come together and not leave anybody behind. And I think that is something that I want to continue to do in my ministry.
And precisely how does one reconcile the goal of “making sure that we come together” and a deliberate unwillingness to point the way to the solitary means of communion that God has given us; namely, Jesus Christ and His Holy Catholic Church?
Pope Francis has been providing the answer loudly and clearly throughout this most dreadful of pontificates by placing a nearly exclusive emphasis on merely temporal concerns, and also by anointing man himself “the king of the universe!”
Cupich tried to lend historical perspective to Pope Francis’ impact on the common man by sharing what he referred to as a “nice phrase that I heard.”
John Paul II told us what we should do. Benedict XVI told us why we should do it. And Pope Francis is saying, “do it.”
If this were a presidential debate, Cupich’s “nice phrase” would have been hailed as sound bite gold. To her credit, however, Norah O’Donnell sought clarificaiton.
“What specifically does that mean, ‘do it,’” she asked?
Pointing to the Holy Father’s approach to economic policy as an example, Cupich proposed:
He [Francis] is making it [the teachings of John Paul II and Benedict XVI] more precise I think because of his own experience in Argentina and being very close to the poor on a day-to- day basis. I think that gives him a different metric, a different way of seeing what the teachings of the church are in real terms. He is putting emphasis on the real life of people and bringing yet the ideas to bear upon the real life situations of folks.
Consider carefully what Cupich is saying here:
He’s suggesting that the teachings of Francis’ two most recent predecessors, neither of which were bastions of orthodoxy, were perhaps a bit “too doctrinal” to be considered relevant by the man-on-the-streets; their pontifications weren’t quite “real” enough for ordinary folks to embrace.
With this, Cupich may very well be providing a snapshot of the pope’s own manner of thinking, in which case one can only imagine the extraordinary disdain he must harbor for the likes of Pope St. Pius X and those Roman Pontiffs who reigned before the Council!
So much for continuity!
After waxing Democrat on the topic of immigration reform, Cupich was then asked to address the matters of so-called “same-sex marriage” and gay parenting.
His response was typical of those church-of-man bishops who practice not the mission of the Catholic Church but rather a brand of quasi-religious diplomacy that is really best understood as a political endeavor.
When pressed by the highly skilled O’Donnell, Cupich eventually affirmed that gays can indeed be “good parents.”
Unfortunately, she stopped short of asking him to define what it means to be a “good” parent. Even so, I suppose we know very well what isn’t included in that definition.
One of the things that stood out the most in this portion of the interview was the archbishop’s rather odd appeal to the audience’s most basic inborn instincts as he repeatedly attempted to deflect attention toward, “People who as mothers and fathers coming together in their love continue the human race.”
He actually employed this “survival of the species” spin no less than three times, as if to establish solidarity with those insightful Face the Nation viewers who are of the sort that like to remind their drinking buddies, “If everyone was gay, there’d be no more babies! Hyuk, hyuk, hyuk.”
If that’s not embarrassing enough, Archbishop Cupich twice referred to those who “take the risk of bringing children into the world.”
This reminded me of something Barack Obama once said about his daughters and unwanted pregnancy…
I suppose one man’s “punishment” is another man’s “risk,” but in neither case can it be said that that man thinks like a Catholic!
As he did throughout the entirety of the interview, Cupich qualified his comments often with a wimpish, “Well, I think,” presumably just to be certain that no one came away with the impression that the Catholic Church proposes objective truths as opposed to mere opinions that carry no greater weight than any other.
For example, he juxtaposed gays who adopt children with natural parents saying, “I do think there is something unique about a man and woman coming together and bringing children into the world.”
A risk? Something unique?
Move over, St. Peter! This New Pentecost thing sure does boast some soaring rhetoric, doesn’t it?
In a healthier age, one might be tempted to ask of a bishop who so framed mankind’s faithful response to the Creator’s most generous directive to be fruitful and multiply, “Is he an idiot?”
As it is, the answer is no, Archbishop Blasé Cupich is no idiot; he’s a rising Bergoglian star, thank you very much.
Sigh!
Dear Louie and all.
Ditto to Long-Skirts–that was our first reaction, too.
-ST. PAUL: “Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord. For any one who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment upon himself.” (1 cor. 11:27).
–THE COUNCIL OF TRENT: In 1551 decreed: “..no one, conscious to himself of mortal sin, how contrite soever he may seem to himself, ought to approach to the sacred eucharist without previous sacramental confession. this the holy Synod hath decreed is to be invariably observed by all christians…if, in an urgent necessity, a priest should celebrate without previous
–THE CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH:”Anyone conscious of a grave sin,must receive the sacrament of Reconciliation before coming to communion.”
–ST. THOMAS AQUINAS: “the punishment for this crime should be excommunication.”
–CANON LAW: “those who ‘obstinately persist in manifest grave sin’ are not to be admitted to eucharistic communion.”
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Lord Jesus, though we have sinned, in your great Mercy grant us good Shepherds, who teach according to Your holy Will..
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Though He slay me, yet will I trust Him.
Job 13:15
“These would be the very same men who, arguably, given a Franciscan reign of just several more years, may very well find themselves in a position to steer the overall direction of the Universal Church for decades to come as they go on to appoint seminary rectors and vocations directors; some taking up positions in the Roman Curia, and others being granted the privilege of wearing the red hat.”
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This is precisely what has been going on and this will be precisely why God will annihilate nations in order to curb this particular population’s growth. Only a chastisement of horrible proportions, richly deserved, will wake up this curia to the fact that God is not as fluffy as their PR agencies have been trying to re-advertise Him as. If they won’t wake up, they have to die. That’s been the general pattern throughout Biblical and Prophetic History.
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There is no ‘biological solution’ to a spiritual problem whose demonic seeds impregnate the intellect and spread and grow at a rate 100X faster than you could conceive and raise a child who will likewise be just as vulnerable to that very same plague. If the homos and the contraceptors can’t have their own children, they will take and raise yours. The optimism of those simply choosing to wait around and let the course of biology fix everything, despite that it does bear obvious fruit, will find that it isn’t enough.
His Excellency Archbishop Cupich will be participating in Chicago’s 10th annual March for Life this coming January 18th. Also participating will be pro-life Democratic Representative Dan Lipinski. If you are in Chicago, please show your support to His Excellency and the pro-life movement.
Looking at the list of Cardinals, there are a number who will turn 80 in 2016. My guess is that the next consistory would be in early 2017 and could produce upwards of 30 new Cardinals. Added to the 31 Francis cardinals in place, the next conclave would have a solid block of about 60 cardinals in the mold of His Holiness Pope Francis all but ensuring that his legacy will continue long after he goes to his eternal reward. Deo Gratias!
In 2011, “The Chicago Catholic Examiner” assessed why Chicago Catholics don’t vote according to Church teachings, writing:
–“The Catholic Church has not been able to produce a pro-life climate in Illinois.” “Much of it is due to external factors and bad politicians, but .. “so many Catholic parishes in Chicago do not communicate what the church believes in and are completely welcoming and friendly towards “Catholics” who are in direct defiance of Church teachings. Many Chicago area priests seem afraid to give pro-life and pro-traditional family homilies from the pulpit, or single-out and condemn local politicians who vote pro-abortion and pro-gay marriage. Even worse, many parishes are afraid to even allow this parishioners to be informed which candidates are pro-life and which are pro-abortion..”
–Are they afraid they will “offend” people and “lose members”? It seems to me that the parishes in Chicago being friendly towards social liberalism are already losing tons of people. Those unabashedly socially conservative parishes in the far suburbs like Will county and downstate are constantly growing and gaining members.
And what about those other religious denominations that are unabashedly pro-life and against same sex marriage? Are Mormons and southern Baptists dying out? No, instead it is socially liberal churches that continue to lose more and more members every year.
Worldly, modernistic, with no sign of the supernatural and binding One a Holy Faith. Just like many of the bishops in Ireland. Lord, have mercy! Archbishop Fulton Sheen’s masterpiece on the false ideology of worldly progressivism and tolerance speaks aptly of the evil of such bishops, priests and lay persons.
Dear Ganganelli,
You might not want to designate it as His Holiness’s “legacy” to the Church through the future Cardinals.
Roman Law has a rather unusual term for when heirs are obligated to share something of what they inherit with a third party.
It’s called a “Legacy by damnation”
No joke! 🙂 🙂
“with the horrifying thought in mind that Blasé Cupich is perhaps representative of the kinds of men, with an occasional anomaly thrown in here or there, whose stock will continue to rise during the pontificate of Pope Francis”
Marcelo Gonzalez has already cried, “Horror!” on the very day of Bergoglio’s> election nearly two years ago. The “slippery slope” is no longer in front of us. We are at the bottom of the slope. Jorge Bergoglio is not an archbishop whose promotion we should fear – he is the absolute monarch!
The horror cannot get any worse than having a man claiming to be pope utter the abominable words, “God does not exist: Do not be shocked!”. No Catholic would ever think of saying what Bergoglio said here, any more than the Mother of God would think of saying, “Lies! I was deceived!”.
For this bishop to participate in any pro-life march is the sheerest hypocrisy! Does he not consider the ‘death’ of so many souls he helps Satan sweep into hell with his heresy? He wants us to raise up babies to be thrust into the arms of Moloc? I want to ask God to strike him down on the very spot.
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But as a good little Catholic I cannot. I must pray for his conversion.
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This is the wretch who will rule for the next 20 years? Mary, save us!!!
We have a long way to go before we hit bottom. I sadly predict the state of the Catholic Church will get much worse but then Our Lord will strike us. Our Lady said He would strike us if we did not repent – acknowledge our sinfulness, go to Confession, obey God through His Commandments, and Church teachings and Tradition. Do we see souls doing this around us?
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With this sad excuse for a pope, and sad excuses for bishops and priests there will be no relief for many decades – absent a direct strike which will convert many.
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The only hope I see is that we don’t know how many faithful souls, praying the Rosary and making sacrifices for the conversion of sinners it will take. Our Lady did not tell us that. So, it could be the Traditional Discalced Carmelites like those in Nebraska, the Traditional Benedictines like those at Clear Creek, and other truly holy Orders that are holding back His Hand.
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Let us hope we can add our weak voices to theirs, and make up just enough of a chorus of prayerful pleas so that Our Lady will continue to save the souls She wants saved.
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Don’t misunderstand me. I’m not being a pessimist, but a realist. What we see happening in our Church is really happening. It’s not just a bad feeling we have. The words coming out of the Pope’s mouth, and out of the mouths of bishops and priests are real. We can’t close our eyes and hope when we open them things won’t look so bad.
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We are part of the voice that, joined with Our Lady, and all the holy people in the world, must beseech Heaven for relief.
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Join me in a perpetual novena to St. Joseph, Patron of the Universal Church.
Love reading the very insightful comments !!! Being a person of simplicity, did not Our Lady predict, “Rome will lose the faith and become the seat of the Antichrist.” ?
On a more serious note, dear Ganganelli, your comment above highlights a concern every Catholic must not forget. If we are to obey God’s will and fight the sinful tendencies and temptations that stem from being human and enemies of the devil; we must respond to evil in the ways God has directed us- Hating the sin, loving the sinner.
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This requires special vigilance when we public denounce what God hates that causes souls to be lost, always differentiating the person from the evils they do, whatever their station in life or God-given office, but especially when it comes to a Pope. Likewise every Pope carries a heavy burden to speak and act as Christ does, and the scandals are multiplied exponentially when he fails to do so, potentially causing much more massive harm .
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Loving him and his followers, we sincerely pray for them, and do not hide that fact. Loving also the souls of those they mislead , we work to denounce whatever is said and done that is scandalous, i.e. leads others into serious sin and ultimately to Hell..
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You’ve participated in prior discussions, and so are obviously aware that Pope Francis has promoted and praised with great enthusiasm – including to the Cardinals of the Synod on Family- Cardinal Kasper’s decades-old, officially CDF- condemned proposals that adulterers be welcomed by the Church to receive Our Lord in Holy Communion, without first repenting fully, by Sacramentally confessing and renouncing their ongoing sins. Thus they are being welcomed to commit horrific Sacrilege and Scandal.
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These ideas are obviously being further fostered by the Catholic Bishop (Cupich) discussed in the above post, who further misleads the public with statements about the nature of the Sacrament of the Eucharist, implying it’s healing powers make prior confession unnecessary, and it’s Grace is more likely to lead to the mortal sinner’s later repentance-saying:.
“The Eucharist is an opportunity of grace and conversion. It’s also a time of forgiveness of sins. So my hope would be that that grace would be instrumental in bringing people to the truth.” This is false teaching. His hope is based on dangerous error.
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Your comment above begins in harmless speculation about the Pope’s potential opportunities to empower even more of those who embrace his ideas, who may well be able to influence generations to come. But you end with words which Thank God if that were to come to pass.
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Where then, is your concern for those souls being scandalize by our Church leaders?. And where is your concern for those of us who anguish over loved-ones or even strangers being lost? You cannot be ignorant of that legitimate sorrow, nor should you rejoice at the thought of the situation which fostered it, continuing. To do so requires either deluding yourself about the evils fostered by modernist thinking, or being so evil as to delight in the ongoing loss of souls as Satan does.
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Such life-and-death matters far outweigh any happy thoughts you may entertain about positive influences from the occasional words of truth that come from heretical mouths. We pray you reconsider these matters. God Bless You.
May I ask what legacy is that? One where the number of Catholics in the world is steadliy declining? One where fewer Catholics are truly faithful? One where one sees many Catholics i name only?
Dear ock,
The quote you refer to comes from alleged collections of LaSalette prophecies, which can be a problem. The Church’s forbade the circulation of them, because of numerous false versions floating around at the time. It’s obvious this one seems to dovetail what is written in Revelations about Antichrist, and the City of 7 hills, but we think it’s safer for Catholics to promote surer sources of Our Lady’s words, such as those given at Akita Japan, which was approved both in it’s apparitions and in the circulated prophecies. On October 13, 1973 she said ___:
“My dear daughter, listen well to what I have to say to you. You will inform your superior.” “As I told you, if men do not repent and better themselves, the Father will inflict a terrible punishment on all humanity. (Next came the prophecy of the chastisement by Fire) and then:
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“The only consolation which will remain for you will be the Rosary and the Sign left by My Son. Each day recite the prayers of the Rosary. With the Rosary, pray for the Pope, the bishops and priests.”
“The work of the devil will infiltrate even into the Church in such a way that one will see cardinals opposing cardinals, bishops against bishops. The priests who venerate me will be scorned and opposed by their confreres…churches and altars sacked; the Church will be full of those who accept compromises and the demon will press many priests and consecrated souls to leave the service of the Lord. “The demon will be especially implacable against souls consecrated to God. The thought of the loss of so many souls is the cause of my sadness…”
A legacy that will reiterate that there are 10 commandments not 2. That there are 7 deadly sins not 1. A constant reminder from Our Lord’s very mouth that it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle! than for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of God. A reminder that in many countries the state allows non-essential businesses to be open on Sunday’s even though Our Lady warned that a chastisement would come for the abomination of working on Sundays. A reminder tha millions more people commit the mortal sins of masturbation and heterosexual sodomy than the 2% of people committing homosexual sodomy. The reminder that there are many intrinsic evils including, “whatever violates the integrity of the human person, such as mutilation, physical and mental torture and attempts to coerce the spirit; whatever is offensive to human dignity, such as subhuman living conditions, arbitrary imprisonment, deportation, slavery, prostitution and trafficking in women and children; degrading conditions of work which treat labourers as mere instruments of profit, and not as free responsible persons: all these and the like are a disgrace”.
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If that is Pope Francis’ legacy God will richly reward him in Heaven.
Wow! If that is really what you believe about Francis’ legacy, then you are far gone from reality (OTOH, if that is what you wish, then ok). With every remark and most of his actions Francis makes, his legacy looks very dismal!
But it’s not his only legacy. Pope Francis’ legacy is to promote sodomy, adultery, sacrilege and staying in a state of mortal sin by not returning to the Christ’s one Church. If he does not repent, no amount of fighting poverty (which is NOT sinful btw) will keep him from burning in the depths of hell. The reason sodomy is a major issue with us today is b/c it is being promoted throughout the world as a right…as good…when it is equivalent to willful murder, slavery and oppression…one of the four sins that cry to heaven for vengeance. And if people go along and cooperate with sodomy, they will be held accountable for it too. So again…lost souls…the “legacy” of Pope Francis. God bless~
For the record, I live with the reality of “gay” parenting every day. My sister is a practicing sodomite and considers herself a “devout” Catholic to boot. How is purposely denying my two nephews their father a “good” thing? How is subjecting them to perversion daily a “good” thing? How is raising two innocent boys by two spiritually dead, iniquitous women “good”? Per Pope Benedict XVI…it is CHILD ABUSE. If Pope Francis or this Archbishop actually cared about anyone they would fight against the abuse done to these children and confront the evil of sodomy for the sake of those lost in it’s evil. Thank you, Louie, for calling out the lies of this lost leader. God bless~
MMC,
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You know what else is being promoted as a right? Pornography. Hardcore pornography is considered protected free speech. Hardcore pornography is 100% heterosexual sodomy. Where is the outrage? Where are the legislators proposing bills to ban this filth? NOWHERE! And do you know why? Right wing country bumpkins in places like Texas like their strip clubs, cheerleaders and pornography. And any politician that attempted to take it away from them would be quickly bounced out of office. Once you understand that God HATES hypocrisy you quickly understand why he chose His Holiness to be his vicar.
Hitler fought Communism.
Hitler had millions of people (including many Catholics) exterminated.
Which shall we name as his “legacy”?
Dear Ganganelli
God often allows and tolerates weeds among the wheat, including the election of bad Popes, if you know any history,- which you’ve shown you do. . Their elections are not His endorsements of all they say and do.
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All their words and actions are subject to proper judgment, and by us, insofar as they direct and affect our souls and those for whom we care.
Try telling a mother not to worry about her child burning in Hell for all eternity, when she knows he died the day after making a sacrilegious Communion (in a public state of unrepentant mortal sin) because the Pope who encouraged that same blasphemous behavior has also made a lot of good speeches on other topics, and cares deeply about feeding the poor and saving mother earth from pollution..
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Your lists of the Pope’s good deeds don’t change those facts. God will judge his interior. We will continue to pray he doesn’t end up in Hell along with all those he’s been encouraging on their way there, while refusing to proselytize, calling it “a sin to talk about what divides us” and having “no intention of converting anyone.”
List away We’re praying for you, too.
Read Mundabor…he calls Pope Francis the greatest hypocrite in Church history. Just b/c I and other traditional Catholic fight against sodomy and abortion doesn’t mean we don’t fight against pornography either. FYI: it’s not sodomy…it’s fornication and rape. Porn is evil. Sodomy is evil. Abortion is evil. But at least they aren’t promoting porn in our schools and in the culture. It is still taboo in some respects. They ARE promoting sodomy…everywhere. If they invited a porn star to a school to promote the goodness of porn you don’t think every parent and Catholic would fight that? Yet that’s what they do all the time with sodomy…thus we fight. Praying for you Gang…God bless~
I’ve stood along side other Catholics (esp men) outside porn shops just like I’ve stood outside abortion clinics. Please don’t make the assumption that Traditional Catholics think porn is ok b/c we are currently fighting the onslaught of sodomy. And again, there is a hierarchy of sin here. Sodomy is unnatural…a sin against nature…one of the four worst sins out there. Porn, as evil as it is, is at least (mostly) hetero and thus natural in it’s acts. The spirits of the age are currently abortion and sodomy…being promoted as “good” by the USA all over the world. Thus, that is where we show up to fight as Catholics. God bless~
I just read a report of a Father Reynolds who has been excommunicated by Pope Francis for, among other things, preaching in favour of women priests, and actually presiding at so-called same-sex marriages….but the kicker is this:
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Father Reynolds is quoted as saying: “I am very surprised that this order has come under his watch; it seems so inconsistent with everything else he has said and done.”
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Now that is proof positive, as if we needed any, that souls are being lost on this Pope’s watch. Poor Father Reynolds – his faculties had been taken away, he stubbornly kept doing what he always did – and he is surprised because from his perspective the Pope was in favour of most of the nasty things Reynolds stood for (I’ll grant the Pope has not said he’s in favour of women priests…)
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This is a small incident, but important to me, because Reynolds actually believed that Francis ‘said and did’ things that made Reynolds think he was on the Francis-path!!!!
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The story is over at Catholic Family News.
Dear Barbara,
If this priest had really been paying attention, he’d have known the Pope wouldn’t condone either of those public actions, because Francis breaks the rules by figuring out ways to pastorally mis-apply them and blame it on the Holy Spirit.
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He wouldn’t be so obvious as to “marry” two homosexuals, he’d just go to that “couple” , extend his personal “welcome”,(maybe to Christmas dinner) “thank them for the gifts ” they bring to his community, and also for their “example of mutual fidelity”– that would all agree with the things he wanted left in the Synod’s “interim relatio” .
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The “Final” sounded a bit different, but then Cardinal Wuerl assured the press that “was just a reflection of our effort at consensus” .adding,
“Now the question is, how are we going to pastorally apply that..
.” [with his usual charismatic smile]
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It’s not at all hard to understand why so much confusion abounds.
Charismatic?!? Methinks you jest.
Dear Mike,
You got THAT right. 🙂 🙂
Just a quick correction MMC. This is a delicate subject because of the nature of the abominable acts.
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Nevertheless, sodomy is sodomy and is condemned by the Church whether it’s a man on a man or a woman on a man. In fact, Aquinas teaches that masturbation is worse than what the Church calls simple fornication precisely because masturbation is a sin against nature just like sodomy. It is incapable of being ordered to procreation.
Please don’t forget the hypocritical poisonous seed of NFP when it plans to separate procreation from unity during intercourse to meet the couples self
serving needs and NFP’s fundamental and insidious hold on wrong thinking with most Catholics who do not connect the scandalous NFP endorsement from progressivists and those who are confused within our Church with the utter breakdown and redefinition of sexual morals and peoples inability to defend sexual purity. The disorientation starts right here with the acceptance of NFP for avoiding procreation while trying to attain all other effects that are derived from conjugal intercourse. It has been all down hill from this huge open door on NFP and it’s redefinition of God’s purpose for marriage along with the necessity of the sacraments and their efficacy in helping us to become saints and the rejection of the obligation of striving for purity.
Sodomy, pornography, divorce, IVF, frozen embryos. fornication, adultery and so on all
have their support rooted in the NFP movement and redefinition of the marriage and its primary purpose.
Dear MMC, I know your spiritual pain at witnessing loved ones abusing themselves, and destroying their souls, and abusing innocents in this way – and probably no one speaking the truth, and railing against this evil abuse. We must pray, do penance, and offer up our suffering for the relief of the abused children, the repentance and conversion of the obstinate mortal sinner who demands that all support their constant mortal sin. And pray for holy priests, who will, once again, lead people away from evil and to purity, goodness, salvation. God bless you.
Indignus,
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I don’t believe we’ve ever had “bad” popes. An occasional pope was said to be immoral in his personal life but that’s as far as it goes. Even those cases are probably exaggerated by proddies.
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I would agree there is some disagreement on whether or not the Pope is directly elected under inspiration of the Holy Ghost. It should be remembered though the last magisterial pronouncement on the matter was from St. JP II who said in UDG that,
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” I also ask the one who is elected not to refuse, for fear of its weight, the office to which he has been called, but to submit humbly to the design of the divine will. God who imposes the burden will sustain him with his hand, so that he will be able to bear it. In conferring the heavy task upon him, God will also help him to accomplish it and, in giving him the dignity, he will grant him the strength not to be overwhelmed by the weight of his office.”
If the aim is avoiding the natural, God-willed result of marital relations, only division and worldliness will come of it, no matter what name one puts on the practice. People are causing so much unhappiness and disintegration within marriages by denying the families that would naturally arise out of those marriages, were their holy nature and purpose not systematically subverted.
This is an excellent point. Why are almost all traditionalists in favor of NFP and against homosexual sodomy? Because it is easy to be against a sin you will never be tempted by.
Thank you for your kindness and support Lynda:+) I will offer up my suffering as well as pray and do penance. I look forward to the day when a holy priest will lead my lost sister back to Christ:+) God bless~
I have never met a Trad who was pro NFP. It is only the neo-Catholics who spout it. I am certainly against NFP if it’s used to avoid pregnancy…I am FOR it if it’s used to get pregnant. God bless~
Dear Indignus ty for the great info !!! With all this disorientation going on in within Our Church, I’m just going to try to be the best Catholic I can be.
Again just FYI the SSPX, SSPV, CMRI and every other “official” traditionalist organization that I’m aware of approves of NFP. I presume that is because it was approved by Pope Pius XII and therefore in the pre-conciliar era.
Dear Ganganelli,
We’ve noticed you ignored the lists of what the current Pope has done to
scandalize billions, while continuing to praise him as if all he does is in cooperation with the will of the Holy Spirit; so we obviously don’t agree at present, on what makes a Pope “bad” -even aside from matters of personal sin.
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We wonder if you’d also think JPII kissing the Koran, i.e. showing reverence for a book that denies the Divinity of Christ and the existence of the Blessed Trinity, was just another harmless gesture of inter-faith friendship, -also God’s will, or perhaps.one of his little moral indiscretions, as some of his faithful worshippers have classified them.. Anyway, those are all things that make a “bad” Pope, in our opinion, as they drive people away from the Church, causing a growth in disbelief and disrespect for Her integrity, while causing others to stay, thinking She has changed some of her dogmas and will likely change even more soon–more confusion. Ecumenism, the way it is promoted, has led to more and more indifferentism.
–Regarding St.JPII’s words about assuming the burned of the Papacy, wasn’t it his own regulations regarding Papal elections that have been (apparently) broken by “team Bergoglio” which, if true, leaves us with about 30 automatically ex-communicated Cardinals and an invalid Papal election?
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In our opinions, God has obviously “allowed” whatever has happened, most likely to open many more eyes to the evils going on inside the Hierarchy all these years, and what that looks like carried to its logical extreme–rather than as an example to all of His obedient servant, carrying out the Divine will–as you have represented things above.
So we accept him as part of the chastisement and as Pope unless or until he is deposed or removed, but he is a very “bad” Pope, in fact,, the worst we’ve experienced in our lifetimes, mostly because he is not out to convert people, as he said, and that leaves them living in sin and error, on their way to Hell.
Fair enough. If Pope Francis is part of a divine chastisement I guess time will tell.
Actually, I think he’s really echoing another Chicagoan, Chicago 7 defendant Jerry Rubin, who said, “Do it!”
And if he wants open borders, then to pay for all the welfare of the new immigrants, we should revoke churches’ tax exemption.
When we speak of The Holy Ghost inspiring an election of a pope we must always remember that grace can be resisted. The will can be so much stronger than the intellect that it rules over any inspiration the intellect perceives.
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I’m sorry to say but I predict a new era of darkness upon us, especially darkness of the intellect.
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The intellect is given to us so we may seek, and find Truth. What we see now in homes, schools, universities, and in our leaders (secular and in the Church) shows a darkening.
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I don’t think it’s too dramatic to see a new Dark Age beginning. The previous dark age was a disaster – when barbarians swept through the Roman Empire learning declined, many things had to remain hidden. The so-called Enlightenment which came later was in reality a vast Indarkenment.
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Let’s buy as many truthful books, tapes, DVDs as we can afford. Get ready for the time when we can’t buy them, store them up for the darkness to come.
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I know this sounds crazy but I want my great grandchildren to have access to the Philosophy of St. Thomas Aquinas, the Traditions of the One True Church, the Holy Mass, the Rosary and Our Lady’s appearances – soon it will all be swept away. See how hard it is already to find copies of older, truer books?
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Why do we argue amongst ourselves so much? Satan is darkening our minds to what is really important. Not to get our point across, but to get the Truth out there, and to conserve it for the very, very dark future coming.
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This is not a criticism of expressing our opinions, but a plea to wake up and smell the stench of sulphur. Fill your homes with TRUTH so you can preserve it.
Let’s be careful when we say who approves of NFP and who doesn’t. There is a legitimate reason to use this method: health of the mother. A lovely couple in my parish are expecting their third child in the spring – she will then have three under three. She has had a very difficult time with each pregnancy and each baby so far has struggled at birth. If they were to ‘space’ the fourth pregnancy (should God decide it will be) for a year or two to allow this mother’s strength to build – that would be an appropriate use of NFP.
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I know another young couple (tradies) who may ‘decide’ to have another baby next year….after having one last year. I know they use NFP and that they think this is just fine – following the Catholic way. But is it? They are young, struggling, going to university etc.
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It’s the ‘planning’ part in Natural Family Planning that causes concern. There is another group that has ‘plan’ as part of their name, no?
Dear Barbara,
I am wondering if you are not being clear or honest as to what NFP truly means and is used for. Just because NFP can be used to try to conceive at the most optimum time for conception to occur, and that complete abstinence is not forbidden by NFP as an option to avoid pregnancy let’s be honest and acknowledge that NFP’s use and promotion is to instruct and to give the so called “Church’s blessing” on separating procreation from conjugal sexual unity while having conjugal relations. All these heartfelt examples that you list are indeed a challenge but complete abstinence is what they should be committed to if their reasons are so life threatening and difficult. These couples that you mention might think they have no other choice and this is where they are very sadly wrong and seriously damaging their purity and integrity to God’s laws, marriage and faith in the sacraments and faith in prayer not to mention the hypocrisy that their soon to be teenagers will grasp once they get the lack of faith their parents have in the ability to abstain or to trust that our Lord will provide.
I wonder what the future of these children of these NFPer’s and their views on contraception and excuses for it when they become of age. I believe it can only be but more watered down than what they grew up with, no matter how many children their parents have.
For Anastasia above: You are certainly 100% correct when you say that observing a woman’s fertility cycle closely in order to conceive (when not observing same does not result in conception) is fine.
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But let’s not be naive in thinking this is the general understanding. As well, my understanding of Church teaching is that the marital act is not to be withheld by either partner in marriage unless there is a valid reason – and the quote “I have a headache” is not a valid reason. This all sounds so old-fashioned but it’s true never the less. Abstinence in marriage is never to be considered unless one has consulted a good priest beforehand. It is not an option to be used lightly – even to space births. The marriage debt, as it used to be quaintly called, must be paid. Think of the married women saints who had nasty, brutish husbands yet had many children!!
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I only put in the two examples to show that one couple is open to life but may use what they have been told is good when true health concerns exist, and the other couple (equally fervent) have a different understanding – both couples in the same parish.
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To my knowledge NFP is being taught to space pregnancies. Fine. The reason can the problem.
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And abstinence must be used very carefully, and under supervision by a Spiritual Director.
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I appreciate your understanding of this issue, Anastasia, and it’s good to have this conversation. I learn something in almost every post.
Dear Barbara,
Please do not quote me as saying to use NFP to observe ones fertility closely in order to conceive is fine. I said that NFP is used for this at times. Do I think this is an across the board acceptable practice? No, I don’t. This mindset can be abused also in an utilitarian way by separating procreation from unity. My point is that NFP’s poison comes primarily from it’s endorsement of one being able to separate the primary purpose of procreation from the secondary purpose of unity of the couple without it being a sin. I am aware that some couples are held hostage to cooperate with the spouse who wishes to separate the two and reluctantly agrees out of fear of loosing their spouse in some way or another. We all know who will be held more accountable for this sin of coercion.
To say that “abstinence in marriage is never to be considered unless one has consulted a good priest” needs clarification. In all due respect the marriage debt is never owed when one spouse is planning to separate procreation from the marital act. Let us please make that perfectly clear to our readers. I think one can understand that a couple that decides together to abstain completely for a time being, “lest the devil tempt them” for a higher purpose such as prayer can do so with or without a priest’s approval.
It is almost as if complete abstinence is a dangerous territory that we should avoid at all costs and that it is almost inconceivable. It is not that I don’t understand this fear but it does reflect the influence of this sex saturated world and the sad overemphasis on the conjugal act as the only resource that will truly keep a marriage intact. I don’t doubt that many marriages are hanging by this thread alone either, but it doesn’t mean that people should not be encouraged to pray for an increase in purity, faith, hope and charity. Not to mention to also pray for an increase of two of the twelve fruits of the Holy Spirit, chastity and continence.
Just a reminder that abstaining completely for a noble reason is good and abstaining completely for not noble reasons is not. Separating procreation from unity during conjugal intercourse with NFP is a sin against purity and morals.
I am hoping to find the time to properly post, in the forum, Catholic Church teachings on the primary purpose of marriage beginning with a quote from Tobit in scripture, quotes of the Church fathers , Castii Connubii by Pius XI and what some of the conservative fathers had to say during vatican II at the attempts to invert and separate the hierarchy of marriage. I would also like to add the link to the a very informative interview between Mike Wallas and Margaret Sanger that reveals just how far back this movement away from Our Mother Church’s teaching was taking place. In this old (1940s?) interview they discuss the need to move away from this Catholic truth and other anti family, anti life feminist issues. God willing I hope to get this accomplished.
Wow, Anastasia…well done! Yes, in our sex saturated culture the idea of abstinence seems so foreign and yet that is what we are called to do via the virtue of chastity. There are instances of countless saints who mutually agreed to abstinence for their entire marriages! It is a GOOD thing. For couples struggling with multiple births I direct them to Church Militant TV’s video series on Contraception where they explain that breastfeeding naturally spaces children apart…up to three years…and naturally! I think many women would also benefit in learning how to handle multiple children, something not taught in our world. God bless~
Thank you MMC for your encouragement. In this forum on the primary purpose of marriage I hope to communicate above all Our Lord’s meaning on marriage which can only be understood from His primary purpose for it.
Although I am a strong advocate of breast feeding my desire is not to inform couples on another “natural” way to space children. My desire is to promote truth, purity and true charity for the instruction on the sacrament of marriage. It is about persevering in the battle for truth and purity no matter how impossible it may seem. Prayer, God’s grace and the sacraments are our armor that will sustain us in this call towards sainthood and this goes also for how to “handle” the many precious souls he sends parents.
Dear MMC,
God bless you.
Anastasia- I think it’s beautiful that you are seeking to educate Catholics in the truth of marriage and children:+) I think women especially would be blessed to learn the proper mindsets, attitudes, and expectations when it comes to marriage and raising children. So many women get overwhelmed b/c they do not have the proper understanding and outlook. Please continue to follow that desire to promote the truth of marriage. You will bless so many b/c of your love and obedience:+) God bless~
Michael Voris, God bless his apostolate, has an earful for the likes of Archbishop Cupich and his ilk. Watch churchmitant TV’s offering for today. Bracing stuff.
Anastasia, I believe your work and goals are worthy but why clutter this comments column with your own narrow agenda items?
Akita: Be careful. What Anastasia speaks of is not a “narrow agenda” but the true teaching of the Church that has been hijacked by the modernists since V2. She was also speaking in response to a post by myself and Ganganelli. The agenda of truth is everyone’s agenda. NFP has infected the Church since the 60’s…and destroyed countless souls and families by giving the false impression that “we” control how many children we have and not God…buying into the narcissistic culture of death and seeing children as a burden rather than a blessing. Seek the traditional teaching of the Church here…and if you find yourself in need of confession and repentance, go for it:+) I know I did:+) God bless~
I’m embarrassed to share my Croatian ancestry with man masquerading as a catholic priest.
Paul VI actually made man God much earlier than his successors.