In a lengthy interview with LifeSite News published on March 24th, Cardinal Raymond Burke said in part:
It’s clear that there was a manipulation [at the Extraordinary Synod] because the actual interventions of the members of the synod were not published, and only the mid-term report, or the “relatio post disceptationem” … And so it’s clear to me that there were individuals who obviously had a very strong influence on the synod process who were pushing an agenda which has nothing to do with the truth about marriage as Our Lord Himself teaches it to us… [Emphasis added]
He went on to say:
I have taken part in, I think, five synods, and in every synod, except this one, in which I took part, a proposition – in this case, a paragraph – which did not receive the necessary two thirds vote was simply eliminated … In this case they insisted on publishing the document with all the paragraphs, simply indicating the number of votes. And so, many people take this as an indication that these paragraphs [which speak positively about gays and the civilly divorced and remarried] are more or less as acceptable as the others.
No doubt, Cardinal Burke’s words will be roundly applauded in many so-called conservative and traditional circles, and not entirely without reason.
He is, after all, one of the few bright lights in a College reasonably considered but a flock of dullards.
Even so, all of this talk about a “synod process” and the “necessary two-thirds votes” is rather disturbing.
It’s enough to give one of lesser formation the impression that the Church is governed by way of parliamentary process; when in truth, Our Blessed Lord established a monarchy wherein His Vicar, the pope, rules in His name.
As mentioned in a previous post, Pope Paul VI of most bitter memory formally established the Synod of Bishops with the Apostolic Letter, Apostolica Sollicitudo, which states in part:
The general purpose of the Synod are … to facilitate agreement, at least on essential matters of doctrine and on the course of action to be taken in the life of the Church.
The simple truth is there are no “essential matters of doctrine” that are as yet so incompletely defined as to constitute a legitimate source of disagreement among authentic Catholics, much less bishops.
In fact, we have a name for disagreement on such matters; it’s called heresy.
Paradoxically, while the Synod of Bishops as currently formulated threatens to simultaneously undermine both the truths of the faith and the sovereignty of the Roman Pontiff, even if only by impression, in the present case, it has also managed to provide a degree of cover for a truly dangerous and despotic pope who is Hell bent and determined to undermine the very doctrines he is duty bound to protect.
Which brings me back to Cardinal Burke’s lamentations…
Why, one wonders, does Cardinal Burke feel compelled even now to tiptoe through the tulips when it comes to identifying the most pressing matter relative to the present rebellion?
The crisis at hand, truth be known, has nothing whatsoever to do with violations of synod protocol or the suppression of its members’ interventions.
In other words, even if the upcoming Ordinary Synod is conducted strictly “by the book,” it won’t matter one iota, because that’s not the problem.
To borrow a slogan from the 1992 U.S. presidential campaign:
IT’S THE POPE, STUPID!
Now, before anyone gets their shorts all up in a knot, let me be clear; I’m not accusing Cardinal Burke of being stupid.
Clearly, he knows better than most that Pope Francis is the problem, and that’s the point.
“The truth about marriage as Our Lord Himself teaches it,” to quote His Eminence, is under attack from within in our day.
Sure, Jesus had Judas; i.e., the Church has never been immune to rebellion.
The buck, however, stops with the pope. It is he who bears responsibility for preserving the unity of faith by quelling such uprisings.
In the present case, however, Pope Francis isn’t simply guilty of an error of omission for failing to safeguard the truth; he’s leading the rebels’ charge!
As such, the Household of God is daily being consumed by a modernist fire, and a great many souls are being put at risk of perishing.
While at one time Cardinal Burke did well to cry out through the media, “I smell smoke,” today, that’s not nearly enough.
It’s time to identify by name the maniac with the torch.
Readers of this space know very well that when Cardinal Burke says that “there were individuals [at the Synod] who were pushing an agenda,” and “they insisted on publishing” that shameful Relatio Post Disceptationem, he’s primarily talking about Pope Francis himself.
And yet, based on the pope’s astronomical approval rating among self-identified Catholics, apparently a good number of the under-nourished rubes in the pews haven’t a blessed clue that the current Bishop of Rome is not to be trusted as either a protector or teacher of our Holy Catholic faith.
At this point, Cardinal Burke’s repeated interviews and speeches decrying the present situation, while initially helpful, are quickly becoming a non-news item.
The time has come for all who truly wish to defend the truth to look the real problem squarely in the eye:
IT’S THE POPE, STUPID
Louie said:
“At this point, Cardinal Burke’s repeated interviews and speeches decrying the present situation, while initially helpful, are quickly becoming a non-news item.”
“In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is King.”
I completely agree. For much too long the “Conservative/ EWTN Neo-Con/Ex-Protestant Bible Study/Vatican Two was wonderful if only it was interpreted correctly” types have trying to assert that it’s never “our beloved Holy Father (fill in the blank)’s” but all those “disobedient ” priests/bishops/nuns who are the problem. For a number of years I fell in that camp intellectually and theologically until I realized that the problems ( like rotting fish) start at the top.
It IS the Pope who is sending doubt, concern, and indeed fear throughout the Church in these days. However one cannot absolve the Neo Beato, the Santo Subito and the Emeritus from responsibility. They made these men bishops, Archbishops and put the red birettas on their heads.
Cardinal Burke clearly knows the Pope is the prime culprit in this present crisis, but there are likely good reasons why he stops short of calling a spade a spade. Who knows what kind of political machinations are going on behind the scenes? It is plausible (maybe even probable?) that the Great Cardinal is playing his own game in which being too direct might harm his greater cause (e.g., building a coalition of bishops to counterweigh the modernists at the next Synod). By calling Francis out, he would make it more difficult for bishops to align with his position. Just one possibility.
Point is, at least the Cardinal is doing something. It is better than the majority of bishops who are complicit in or who have remained silent about this unfolding travesty. God Bless him for that.
I’m counting the years, months, … days!!!
To His future Holiness, God willing – three cheers! He is one of the few who has a spine and faithfully defends and promotes the Truth.
I hope Cardinal Burke does not become just another Michael Voris, who is very good at telling us what is wrong (like we don’t know already) without placing the blame exactly where it belongs. Cardinal Burke is not stupid— he knows where the blame lies. He needs the courage and fortitude to just come out and say it. Perhaps, many will follow. We need a standard bearer of his stature to get the troops rallying. Maybe then, we will see a turnaround. Let’s pray!
At this stage, with the Pope’s attacks on the Faith and morals so numerous, constant and blatant, there is no apparent prudential reason to withhold explicit acknowledgement of the fact. Rather, I think it is doing great harm to continue not to to give clear acknowledgement of what is manifest and indeed obstinate.
Like the 500 priests in the UK who have just sent their public letter to the Vatican to state their concerns as a matter of urgency concerning the Synod, isn’t there a way that all true Catholics around the world (whether those who still attend Novus Ordo masses but still believe in the fullness of the Faith, or the SSPX etc) can give the powers that be a short, sharp, very public and very clear warning about the coming schism?
Perhaps a worldwide letter that can garner 10 million plus signatures?
I know it seems futile but you can see by the action of the English & Welsh priests, it immediately raises the stakes in a timely way, a way that can’t easily be controlled by the forces of the Devil. It can also create a public narrative, and even instruct the ignorant at the same time.
Louie, use your great talents as a writer to compose such a letter, one that all Faithful Catholics can agree on, in Africa, in Poland, in Traditionalist communities or those still clinging on for dear life, especially those who are still well behind the curve regarding what really happened at Vatican II, why false obedience was a big part of the downfall for the laity, not to mention the grave and sacrilegious deficiencies of the New Mass.
Write a letter that is short, sharp and TRUE which all Catholics can sign in good faith and let’s start to try to take control of the agenda even for the sake of our consciences.
Maybe, like the recent Remnant TV comment, title it “We Want Our Faith Back!”
What think you?
Dear Louie,
Yes, it’s very disappointing that no Cardinals are directly and publicly denouncing the things Francis says and does that are so obviously harmful to the Faith and the Church. But on the other hand, heroes who live, teach, and defend the True Faith in public are not so easy to find these days–especially among the Cardinals.
As Catholics we distinguish between the office and the person holding the office. For example, Judas’ office was replaced after his suicide. After Judas committed suicide his office continued, but was vacant and had to be filled. Simple enough. Interestingly enough, Judas’ office, created by Christ, did not in itself estop Judas from thinking and acting and being evil. And only when it was factually vacant, and after Christ’s ascension and the descent of the Holy Spirit, could a new person be appointed to fill that office by Christ’s authorized ministers.
There was another interesting example: Esau, son of Isaac, and brother of Jacob, lost his birthright and his inheritance to satisfy his carnal pleasures. Jacob by duplicity usurped his older brother’s inheritance. Even then, in bequeathing his office to Jacob , father Isaac blessed Jacob saying: ‘Cursed be he that curseth thee, and let him that blesseth thee be filled with blessings.’
I understand the analogies are not perfect to our present crisis, but should we not somewhat refrain ourselves and heed Jacob’s warning when in comes to criticizing the Pope so blatantly and publically, especially as the office of the Pope and the person holding that office are so mystically intertwined?
Bergoglio and the cardinals are fiddling during the sin-nod while Rome burns & the man sitting in the chair of Peter is enthusiastically pouring gasoline on the ever more violent flames…
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And, paraphrasing a previous statement from Bergoglio, we are supposed to repeat, “The Church has never been in better shape”.
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“In our time more than ever before, the chief strength of the wicked lies in the cowardice and weakness of good men… All the strength of Satan’s reign is due to the easy-going weakness of Catholics…”
Pope St. Pius X, Discourse on the Beatification of Joan of Arc, December 13, 1908
Dear All,
It seems the Germans are getting rather upset with Cardinal Burke’s continuing interviews. 🙂 🙂
GloriaT.V. just published the following, for March 26, 2015:
“German Bishops Declare War on Marriage: The official news website of the German Bishops’ Conference “katholisches.de” published yesterday a declaration of war against Cardinal Raymond Burke because of his tireless defence of the indissolubility of marriage…..”
The time is long past for diplomat-speak. Card. Burke has already been exiled to Malta. Perhaps God has allowed this precisely to free him of all diplomatic calculations? Or must more marginalization first occur?
At any rate, it shouldn’t be forgotten that Card. Burke is fully on board with the revolution of Vatican II. He simply embraces the desperate “hermeneutic of continuity.” Being on board with Vatican II, it’s not surprising that he refuses to engage in the kinds of critiques that cut to the very core of this revolution, Pope Francis the Groovy being its apotheosis.
“the simple truth is there are no “essential matters of doctrine” that are as yet so incompletely defined as to constitute a legitimate source of disagreement among authentic Catholics, much less bishops…In fact, we have a name for disagreement on such matters; it’s called heresy.” Right on.
–
There is a room somehwere full scrolls an screeds of canon law that has turned to hay, and in the midst of all the hay is a needle and on that needle it says, ‘sedevacante – it happens.’ But also there are libraries all over the world, through out the Vatican and in seminaries where, in rather a less pithy form, the fact of the chair being empty for extended periods of time is well document and accepted as Histrocal fact. The only difference is, the length of time, this time around – on that not eveyone agrees. Was Cardianal Siri or a Siri circa 1958, validly elected? If so, therefore the next valid election wasn’t till Cardinal Raztinger put on the red shoes. One thing any Traditionalist with a nose for fish rotting at the head can say, is that Bergoglio should have been hung on the smoking rack from day one. The Church, unlike a headless chicken, doesn’t run amock in a bloody mess, just because a bit of time has passed since a bonefide gluteus maximus of St Peter rested authentically there. And, more importantly, the Church most especially doen’t round about in a bloody mess because there IS an authentic occupier of that chair.
How many homosexuals have died since Francis uttered the infamous “who am I to judge” idiocy and how many of them fully believed that since the POPE said those words then they actually weren’t living in a constant state of mortal sin? Francis deserves no benefit of the doubt whatsoever….he IS the enemy and through his lack of Catholic leadership over the last two years I couldnt even imagine how many souls have probably been lost in that time. Please dont make excuses for this person. When we refrain from speaking the truth and try to make excuses for those who speak against it we help grease the skids to hell for the souls in search of guidance.
Im thinking the political excuse wont hold water for the Cardinal when his time comes. Why would worldly politics even enter into his mind, especially at his age (not that it should ever really matter)? He is an old man….how long is he going to “play his game” and what good is he doing in the interim by not attacking with everything he has? He is neither hot nor cold as far as I can see.
Spot on ! Absolutely marvellous! Hit the nail right on the head! No pfaffing around, just straight to the point in plain language. Time to hit the trail fellas, leave the novus ordo apostasy far behind and head for sedevacantism and plainspeak.
Thank you for telling it as is. Water-wings aren’t gonna do anyone any good in the reality of the afterlife according to Berogolio.
Well, if the German cliche are having coffee with diabolo, then piis von den kraut-klergy. I am very much interested to see where Cardinal Burke is headed. Is it for some pre-agreed Modernist agenda (a bit like Benedicit), or for somehwere real and truth and Catholic?
An old Catholic raised by habited nuns and the Baltimore Catechism would like to chime in. It is not the pope Louie. It is not even Vatican II. The deeper problem is the heresy of modernism, the pope and Council are just products of the heresy. When you hear “just be a good person” or “Jesus loves you, just find Jesus” from your pulpit….run. They have no explanation for doctrine and dogma and least of all the sacraments, who needs them, just be a good person. The devils tool modernism!
PS Cardinal Burke confirmed two of my kids. He implemented the new Catechism back then. My two kids he confirmed don’t go to church anymore. Go figure.
From one ” Old Catholic” to another: I agree. Bergoglio is not the CAUSE. He’s the RESULT of 50 years of modernism, diluted Catholicism, and an all-out effort to destroy the Catholic Church from within. He is the PRODUCT of the Revolution….the Revolution poster boy!
Thank you for this spot light. Those who don’t go in by the gate are false-shepherds/hirelings. We need to have a keen Christ-given ‘unscaled’ eye to know the right and wrong of a ‘shepherd’.
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Pope Benedict XV, 1917, to the Archbishop of Tours: “in the midst of the present upheavals, it is important to repeat to the men, that by Her divine insitituion, the Catholic Church is the only Ark of Salvation for the Human Race…accordingly it is more seasonable than ever to teach that the Truth, which liberates, not only individuals, but societies, is supernatural Truth in all Its fullness, and in all its purity, without attenuation, dimunition or compromise…in a word, exactly as Our Lord Jesus Christ delivered it to the world…” http://kingshipofchrist.org/dl/Kingship-of-Christ-Rev-Denis-Fahey-Dublin.pdf
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“…though Jesus was kind to those who had gone astray and to sinners, He did not respect their erroneous convictions, however sincere they appeared to be”. Pope St. Pius X
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Pope Benedict XV, 1917, to the Archbishop of Tours: “in the midst of the the present upheavals, it is important to repeath to the men, that by Her divine insitituion, the Catholic Churc is the only Ark of Salvation for the Human Race…accordingly it is more seasonable than every to teach that the Truth, which liberates, not only individuals, but societies, is supernatural Truth in all Its fullness, and in all its purity, without attenuation, dimunition or conpromise…in a word, exactly as Our Lord Jesus Christ delivered it to the world…” http://kingshipofchrist.org/dl/Kingship-of-Christ-Rev-Denis-Fahey-Dublin.pdf
“…though Jesus was kind to those who had gone astray and to sinners, He did not respect their erroneous convictions, however sincere they appeared to be”. Pope St. Pius X
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https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/isoc.ws/recording.mp3
Thank you for this spot light. Those who don’t go in by the gate are false-shepherds/hirelings. We need to have a keen Christ-given ‘unscaled’ eye to know the right and wrong of a ‘shepherd’.
–
Pope Benedict XV, 1917, to the Archbishop of Tours: “in the midst of the present upheavals, it is important to repeat to the men, that by Her divine insitituion, the Catholic Church is the only Ark of Salvation for the Human Race…accordingly it is more seasonable than ever to teach that the Truth, which liberates, not only individuals, but societies, is supernatural Truth in all Its fullness, and in all its purity, without attenuation, dimunition or compromise…in a word, exactly as Our Lord Jesus Christ delivered it to the world…”
–
“…though Jesus was kind to those who had gone astray and to sinners, He did not respect their erroneous convictions, however sincere they appeared to be”. Pope St. Pius X
–
https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/isoc.ws/recording.mp3
Dear Salvemur,
Germany apparently has a lion’s share of modernists, but don’t write them ALL off. According to this report:
http://catholicnewslive.com/story/520708
“Cardinal Cordes (ordained in Paderborn) –wrote a letter about the media statements of his fellow German bishops (March 7, 2015) published in Die Tagespost, a prominent German language Catholic newspaper,
“..in order to limit the confusion which they have caused.”
__
Referring to the comments of Cardinal Marx, he wrote:
“The problem was addressed with the beautiful words of ‘new solutions’ and ‘opening doors’,”…
“..THE EXISTING GERMAN ECCLESIAL APPARATUS IS COMPLETELY UNFIT TO WORK AGAINST GROWING SECULARISM” “It was not without reason that Benedict XVI strongly urged the Church in Germany to become less worldly during his 2011 visit”.
___
Then noting a survey showing only 16 percent of “Catholic” Germans believe God to be personal he said:
“all other German Catholics see in God a faceless providence, an anonymous fate along the lines of a primordial power. Or they simply deny his existence flat out. What do they think of when they pray the Our Father? So there is no reason to pride ourselves on our faith if we stand in comparison to other countries.”
__
We are instructed by Our Lord to denounce all error, according to our abilities; but also to pray for the their conversions.
Dear Peter,
Plainspeak yes. Sedevacantism no, thank you. 🙂 🙂
To Louie and all –A LENTEN REMINDER from the remnant of the POWER of
the MOST HOLY ROSARY:
(Ted Bundy–serial killer–couldn’t carry out his intentions in its presence)
At 3: 00 am on January 15 Bundy entered the Chi Omega sorority house at Florida State University and murdered two girls before heading off to search for more victims. When he entered a third girl’s room with a bat for a weapon, he saw a rosary clutched in her hand, dropped the bat and fled.
__
Father Joseph M. Esper says in his book With Mary to Jesus, “Ironically, when Ted Bundy was on death row, awaiting execution for his crimes, he asked Monsignor Kerr to serve as a spiritual counselor, and the priest took the opportunity to ask about that terrible night. Bundy explained that when he entered the girl’s room, he had fully intended on murdering her; some mysterious power was preventing him.”
___
Father Esper adds, “And not only does it (the rosary) aid our own spiritual growth — it also undermines the kingdom of Satan. The famous Vatican exorcist Father Gabriele Amorth testified, ‘One day a colleague of mine heard the devil say during an exorcism, “Every Hail Mary is like a blow on my head. If Christians knew how powerful the Rosary was, it would be my end.”‘
-Pray the rosary daily for protection and to defeat the forces of Satan!
=====
The Remnant adds:
Pay the Rosary for many reasons, especially during Lent.. We are locked in a spiritual combat. Our enemies are principalities and power, thrones and dominions, who in one irreversible, unimaginable act of pride rejected God’s Will and were cast out. If we receive the Sacraments (especially Confession) regularly, try to practice virtue, and avoid habits of sin, it is incredibly unlikely that demons or dark forces will gain any power over us. But for those who are lost in grave habits of sin, it is very, very possible. We must do penance not only for ourselves, but for those lost in sin, too. It is a vitally necessary work of spiritual mercy.
=======
God Bless us all.
https://veneremurcernui.wordpress.com/2014/03/11/scary-story-about-the-power-of-the-rosary/
It seems to me that Cardinal Burke is on the right path by speaking up as always has been the method used by individual bishops when pointing out heresy on the part of other bishops in our history. We have to recognize the political animal alive and well in the Church. The hope, I would think, is that Cardinal Burke is one voice among all those in authority. He has spoken and he prays, I am sure, that many other bishops will speak out as well. We have heard a few already beginning to question the direction of this Vatican. If he should speak too loudly, other´s just might wait to see the response from Rome which would be fierce. It just might be the end of any further response. The point here is for the bishops to let their own voices be heard as well. A cardinal’s voice certainly sets the tone for others to echo the theme as well. A consensus must be formed. The Cardinal certainly has been given his first warning. He shows courageously where his values lie.
Dear Old Catholic,
We’re two old Catholic grandparents, raised the same way you described. You’re not alone by any means.
__
We too lay the blame on modernism, but must also acknowledge there IS individual responsibility- to some degree- involved in what each person chooses to espouse as Truth after reaching the age of reason. God doesn’t make it impossible for us to at least sense falsehood, but our own selfish desires make it easier for us to welcome it into our hearts in order to “excuse” sin–whether it be our own or that of others. When a person first lies to himself, paves the way to easier and easier acceptance of more lies.
We pray constantly for all those who are living that way–including at the highest levels of the Church these days.
God bless you and all of us
Dear rich,
We’ve been giving this a lot of thought–and see that he is doing a LOT of good, and is definitely not “cold” on the teachings of the Church and the True Faith. He’s expressing what every Catholic SHOULD believe, and leaving it to us to realize that the Pope is NOT doing that. None of us is missing that point.
As to why he’s not “attacking with everything he has”, maybe he IS.
We know he’s vastly out-numbered because the votes at the Synod were a “simple” majority on those heretical matters, even though not enough of a super-majority to pass the measures. If he loudly denounced the Pope right now, would he perhaps lose even the post he now holds–where he has the power to incardinate good priests– and travel and speak publicly in defense of the Faith wherever he goes? Can we not cut him some slack –assuming he’s doing what he sees is best overall for the good of the Faith right now? He’s definitely shown himself to be a true son of the Church even losing his position with the Curia after voicing the Truth.
Dear Indignus,
It is very hard and emotionally very distressing, I know. I was taught the Faith by holy Irish Nuns, Brothers and Priests at Loretto Convent and Christian Brothers’ College before the advent of Vatican II. I have tried to be a devout Catholic all my life. I was very busy raising 7 kids and trying to put food in their gaping little maws. I never really thought much about the changes as they came along – just accepted them in good faith because I trusted my Priest, Bishop and Pope, as millions of ordinary good Catholics did/do. The only Sunday I can remember missing Mass was during my cardiac bypass. A few years ago, my son asked me whether a particular clause in a Vat. II document was heretical. I agreed that in my layman’s opinion, it was. It made me start reading up a bit. That’s one of the advantages of being geriatric – one has the time. These days with the internet, boundless information is at one’s fingertips. One Sunday morning I looked around my NO parish church and in a Damascus like experience saw it all in a flash. The tabernacle hidden around the corner, bare of those beautiful old statues, the stripped “altar” with candles on the floor, the ladies in cocktail dresses dishing out communion, the bobbing of heads, etc., etc. I remember very well how things were before Vatican II. There is no comparison. I read extensively for 2 years until I eventually found peace in becoming a sedevacantist. I have no doubts, or qualms at all. I have paid the price. My NO friends of years standing see me as a pariah now. I say the Rosary daily, wear the brown scapula and assist at Mass virtually on Sundays and Holy Days by watching the live webcast from St. Gertrude the Great parish in West Chester, Ohio. I live in South Africa and am the only sedevacantist I know here. But I know those dear Nuns, Brothers and Priests, probably all dead now, are proud of me.
Dear Peter,
Thank you for your above (obviously heartfelt) reply. We see many of the same “wrecked” churches in our area of the U.S., although the newer ones were built that way–twisted metal instead of statures, etc . But when we have no Traditional Mass to attend, it’s still the Word of God being read (Epistle and Gospel) and still the Real Presence being given to us at Communion time. Why not go for that alone, and then watch the Mass at home on T.V. You never know when a word or two to a priest or fellow parishioner can help them get through this time?
We thought being sede meant not believing the man in Rome is a real Pope.
Does it also mean not believing the Mass is a real Mass? Cardinal Burke makes the distinction between a poor quality of prayers and rite -comparing the N.O. to the TLM, and talks about his great desire to help the Church in this area, but recognizes that many Catholics have no other Mass to attend on Sundays to fulfill their obligation. If you went through the ordeal you describe in making up your mind to do what you’re doing, we realize a few words here are not likely to reverse that decision. But we hope you’ll give it some more thought. It can be a great sacrifice to close your eyes to the things you have no control over during an N.O. Mass–especially the sloppy or immodest aspects of it. But if you leave with the Real Presence in your Body, you have the greatest source of consolation possible on this earth to take with you. We believe, like Cardinal Burke does, that these Masses are valid, and so are the ordinations of priests carried out under the new rite.
If we are wrong, we’ll find out some day, with no greater loss to us than to anyone else who has been duped. If we are right, though, then we are receiving the Lord, and folks like you, are depriving yourselves of Him.
That’s too great a risk in our humble opinions, for anyone to take.
We’ll pray for you, as we do for all we encounter here. God Bless.
It’s more accurate to say that Vatican II and Bergoglio are first consequences and only then causes. I liken the situation to the election of Obama. Many “conservatives” say that Obama is the cause of America’s catastrophic decay. But the multiple elections of this pimp president were consequences of prior catastrophic decay in the electorate. Only a thoroughly impoverished electorate would choose and applaud such a degenerate.
“The things we love tell us what we are.”
-St. Thomas Aquinas
Dear Indignus,
Thank you for your reply. Yes, I went through the stage of thinking exactly what you are thinking and for a time I did exactly what you suggest. Later, my views changed. I’m keeping it short, but I will gladly supply sources for everything I say if you would like them. So in brief:
The new rite for the Consecration of Bishops is invalid. The new rite of Ordination of Priests is at least doubtful. The form of the Consecration in the NO mass is invalid, so yes, the NO mass is invalid. The Real Presence is not there. The horror is that one may be attending a “mass” said by a man who is not a priest and be adoring a piece of bread! God judges by intent, so all the good, genuine souls who attend the NO mass in perfect good faith will receive much grace, but tragically no sacramental grace, because there is no sacrament.
I get the whole Tridentine Mass at home, Gospel, Epistle and homily and entreat the Lord for a Spiritual Communion.
The SSPX, and Orthodox sacraments are valid, so I thought of travelling a long way to a SSPX mass, but they are schismatics and it is not pleasing to the Lord to pray with schismatics. They acknowledge a Pope, but refuse him obedience. Also they say the “una cum” mass, ie. in union with pope Francis, a heretic. ( See Iam Vos Omnes, Pope Pius IX, 1868.) So yes, it is better for me to have nothing to do with the false NO religion, to stay at home and do what I do.
The sedevacantist position is that we are in an extended interregnum – the Chair of Peter is (temporarily) vacant. The Papal Succession is perpetual and will last until the end of time (Vatican I ) This simply means that there is no visible Pope AT THE MOMENT that we are aware of.
We do know that the Church is indefectable. We do know that a heretic can’t be Pope, or that if a Pope teaches pertinaceous heresy he instantly loses office. See St. Robert Bellarmine (a Doctor of the Church), De, Romano Pontifice: http://www.sedevacantist.com/bellarm.htm
See also Cum Ex Apostolatus Officio, Pope Paul IV, 1559:http://www.dailycatholic.org/cumexapo.htm
Sedeprivationism is a theological possibility. That means the concilliar popes might be Popes materialiter, but they are not Popes formaliter.
Sedeimpediti (Siri Thesis, Cassiciacum Thesis.) There is a Pope, but we don’t know who he is – he is impeded.
The main point is that we DO know who are NOT Popes materialiter AND formaliter.
“… Sedevacantism, the position that there has been no (known) true Pope of the Catholic Church since the death of Pius XII in 1958, and that the current Vatican establishment is not the Catholic Church, is entirely safe. By adhering to it, you cannot be led into heresy, nor into schism, if you are faithful to Catholic teaching. Even supposing, for the sake of argument, that the position were false, where would be the danger? What could you be accused of? The worst that could be said of you is that you were wrong about who the Pope was. You believed, in good faith, that there was no Pope when in fact there was one — but at least you acted consistently and in accordance with Catholic teaching, to the best of your ability and in peace with your conscience. You could be accused of having made a sincere mistake, nothing more; a mistake regarding the identity of the true Pope, as many others did before in Church history, and quite innocently. This is the worst that could be said. You could not be accused of adhering to or spreading false doctrine (heresy), nor of refusing to be subject to the man you acknowledged to be the Pope (schism).” (A quote from Novus Ordo Watch.)
I do know that we are Brothers in Christ. Good Catholics trying to keep the Faith in tumultuous times. We do know that the Immaculate Heart will prevail. We do know that the gates of hell will not prevail against Our Lord’s One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church.
God bless you too.
A properly functioning papacy would not be convening a synod about marriage.
A properly functioning papacy would be emphasising the teaching of Jesus Christ upon marriage.
Dear Peter,
Our hearts go out to you and every other brother and sister in Christ searching for truth with such sincerity these days, in the midst of such turmoil and confusion. When we got online a few years ago now- we were totally ignorant of what it meant to be SSPX FFSP, Sede, or even an N.O. Catholic for that matter, just considering ourselves “Catholic” despite many years of persecution for simply staying that way. We had a lot to learn, obviously, and spent many hours reading sources such as we’re sure you’ve read, only to find ourselves going cross-eyed and feeling like we were drowning in apparent contradictions. One day we looked at two of three of these “arguments” pro and con, and realized all of them were quoting the same Saint, making the same statement, but interpreting it according to the way that benefitted their “side” in the battle for Truth.
We recalled reading in Scripture that believers should not delve into what seems too sublime for them, and felt a surge of relief. From then on, we resolved to continue spending time reading when we are able, but looking for trustworthy prelates who apparently have the True Faith AND the knowledge and education to guide us. We find them rare, which is why Cardinal Burke has stood out to us so much. And yet, we’re even a bit wary of him because of his firm devotion to Benedict–who as we know recently recanting a position he left in a paper for over 40 years–similar to that of Kasper on pastoral practices regarding the divorced/not annulled/remarried being admitted to reception of the Eucharist prior to any repentance and change of behavior.
Still he seems to be articulating a no-nonsense Faith overall, and is firmly convinced that those ordinations and rites you write of are indeed valid, and that the N.O. is not dangerous in itself to the Faith. We’ve been attending it for over 50 years now, just recently gaining access to a TLM allowed by our Diocese in accord with the Motu Proprio of Benedict. We relish every moment of every one of those Masses, while still attending the N.O when they are not available.
Unlike you, we aren’t willing to trust our own judgment in these very complex matters, but like you, we are hoping God will lead us all to the Truth and very soon. We easily see the same passion for what is good and right in so many of the folks who share their stories here–and one thing we all have in common is our hatred for the modernist lies that cause people-including many we still love–to lose their souls by all appearances, and embrace lives of sin which the world and bad churchmen help them “justify”. That now includes modernists like the current Pontiff and his buddies, unfortunately, which vastly complicates the matter. After reading a long list of all the details of determining what heresy is, we are leaving it to God to sort out whether this Pope or any Pope can be a heretic -and whether he was or was not, before he was elected, and whether his election was invalid or contrived, etc. etc.
We are sticking with the idea that we do and teach only what we are certain is good and in accord with teachings of the past, and hoping God prevents him from promulgating anything “iffy” to make things even worse.
So far, our prayers have been answered, because everything he says and does that are contrary to Church teaching, are so obvious, a 7 year old with a basic catechism of Trent could teach about it.
Anyway, we’ll pray for you as we said, and hope God leads us all to the truth very soon. Of course we think you should do as we are doing, as the most sensible thing to do under the current circumstances. But everyone you talk too says that, too, right?
God Bless us all with the whole Truth. Mary, Help of Christians, Pray for us. (And Padre Pio, add this to our list of requested miracles) 🙂 🙂
Amen. You sound exactly like Cardinal Burke on this one.
Dear Indignus,
Thanks again for your kind comment, but my reply will have to wait a while. I’ll explain:
I only discovered this blog 2 days ago. I thank Got that I did. I have been reading past posts with all their comments. I stand in awe. I have read fantastic posts and comments and already learned a lot that I didn’t know before. There are a lot of people here right out of the top drawer who know infinitely more than I ever will about our Faith. I jumped in gaily with a little comment without knowing the level I was getting into. I think newby must spend a little time catching up. I am already forming some general impressions however and I’ve even spotted the odd sedevacantist, or two! 🙂 I am dying to answer your last comment and to ask a question of my own. In the meantime please may I ask: Have there been any posts on sedevacantism before? Has sedevacantism as such been previously discussed? I ask because if there have been, I’d like to read them. I’ll get back to you on your comment. 🙂
Excuse me God, not Got!
God Bless your Faith, Peter. It’s a little bit out of your neighbourhood, but you may be able to get in touch with someone through this notice:
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“Attention Australia and New Zealand: There is a sedevacantist priest offering Masses regularly now in Perth, Melbourne, Brisbane, and Adelaide, as well as some locations in New Zealand. Please contact us for more information.”
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http://www.novusordowatch.org/contact.htm
@Pater. Another good online resource:
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The “Congregatio Mariae Reginae Immaculatae (CMRI))” dot ‘org’
Dear Indignus,
We have much in common. My head has also spun on many occasions. Often I just give up when it is too deep to understand without a proper background in theology and philosophy. No matter, we are the sheep and it is not above our station to bleat when we see the wolf. We are sufficiently able and equipped by our basic, knowledge of our Faith to recognise a wolf when we see one. It is then our DUTY to start bleating as loudly as we can to spread the alarm. Right? Right!
From the posts and comments I have read on this site, I would say that there is general recognition that the NO religion propounded by vatican II and the conciliar popes is modernist and not Catholic. Now Pope St. Pius X confirms for us, infallibly, that Modernism is the synthesis of all heresies, (Pascendi Dominici Gregis). Right? Right!
We know that the sins of formal, pertinacious heresy, apostasy and schism are sins against Faith and by their nature incur automatic excommunication. Right? Right!
Extra ecclesiam nulla salus est. That is Catholic Dogma. Right? Right!
So connecting the dots, how can I have ANYTHING to do with the NO church, if I value the salvation of my soul?
Dare I make this judgement with my soul at stake? Yes indeed! St. Louis Marie de Montfort says a man who says the Rosary daily will not be mislead. Can I pray for guidance in this matter of Faith from the Holy Ghost? Yes I can and I do. Has God given me logic and reason? Yes he has. The failing of Abp. Lefebvre, that holy and humble man, was that he shied away from the responsibility of following his beliefs to their logical conclusions. Often we are forced in life to say a prayer and make an important decision. Sometimes failure to decide just causes us to drift aimlessly.
People talk about this “diabolical confusion.” Is this NO mess so confusing? I don’t think so! I think all we see is just the cold, calculated rolling out of a grand diabolical conspiracy hatched long ago. The bottom line of all this is a battle between Our Lord God on one side and lucifer on the other.
It started with the protestant revolution, essentially the rejection of Authority and the introduction of religious freedom and relativism. Then followed Weishaupt (judeo-masonry), the enlightenment (Voltaire), the French Revolution and finally, the culmination of the assault, Vatican II. Aim of it all? To DESTROY THE HOLY CATHOLIC CHURCH OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST! Most important objective in accomplishing that? DESTROY THE MASS! That is the grand judeo-masonic conspiracy behind this so called “diabolical confusion,” the NO religion and the changes to the Sacraments and Liturgy, as Louie has just pointed out in ” A Masterstroke in Evil Genius.”
This plan is documented in the Permanent Instruction of the Alta Vendita which is available for all to read, as is the testimony of Bella Dodd before the US Congress. John XXIII and Paul the Sick were card carrying free masons. Padre Pio, following a vision, sent Fr. Luigi Villa to Pope Pius XII who commissioned Fr. Luigi to ferret out masons in the Vatican. I suggest reading Fr. Luigi’s writings at:
http://padrepioandchiesaviva.com/Padre_Pio___Fr.html
It was all carefully planned with great patience, over years. They eventually got their men in place and then they struck and continue to strike to this day. This is the aetiology of Vatican II and the heretical NO anti-popes. They are ALL anti-popes – no exceptions. Bearing all of this in mind (and there is much more that could be said), it was easy and logical for me to become a sedevacantist, without any qualms at all. In fact, IT WAS THE ONLY THING I COULD DO! 🙂
Dear Indignus famulus
That is part of the problem I agree. But it goes so much deeper. The devil is so deceptive, for instance the prevalence of the protestant attitude of sola scriptura, the idea the I can interpret the gospel in my own way and as long as I am true to my conscience that is all that is needed. (I think I just paraphrased our present pope.) I once put my granddaughter into a quandary when I asked her if she believed in the miracle of transubstantiation. She was a junior at the time. Then I asked her if she believed in evolution. I brought up the fact that if she believes in one miracle why not at least entertain the idea that the creation of the universe happened as stated in Genesis. That is were I went over the edge. That is when her grandpa, as was warned, was one of “them”. And by the way she goes to a Catholic HS. I am afraid that the smoke of Satan has so filled the Church that most of its members can’t even see their hand in front of their face anymore. God I hope I am wrong! How can we join them! It means the very things they taught us aren’t true and the whole house of cards comes crashing down. We are left with sola scriptura.
PS It is good to know that will not go the next world knowing I was all alone. For that I thank you.
Keep the faith (remember that old revolutionary line. Has a different meaning now though doesn’t it)?