Are current events in the Middle East the stuff of Biblical precedent, and perhaps even Biblical prophecy?
Duh! One may as well ask, Is the pope a fervent defender of Catholic doctrine?
On second thought, never mind, poor analogy. At any rate, consider…
Esau, who despised his birthright, married from among the Ishmaelites as an act of rebellion against his father, Isaac.
The reason for the prohibition against marrying from among the Canaanites is pretty simple; when the sons of God marry the daughters of men, the influence of the latter’s false religion eventually leads men away from the one true God. Scripture attests to this rather clearly.
Now, back to Esau…
The family of Herod descended from among the Edomites; the tribe of Esau, and therefore also from among the Ishmaelites.
Herod Antipas, who married his sister-in-law (Herodias, also of the family of Herod by birth) in violation of God’s law, imprisoned John the Baptist for daring to call him to account for his offense.
It was this same Herod who succumbed to the request of the daughter of Herodias for the head of John the Baptist, the cousin of Our Blessed Lord and the prophet who pointed to the long awaited Messiah saying, “Behold the Lamb of God.”
Fast forward to today…
The world is in turmoil in many ways indeed, but one of the most noteworthy is the terror being wrought by the hands of those descended from the Ishmaelites; the Muslims, who are causing havoc, not just in the Middle East, but all over the globe.
Daily we see news reports from Iraq detailing how those who are faithful to Jesus Christ, the Lamb of God, are being beheaded for the very same reason John the Baptist was beheaded; for arousing the demonic anger of those in the line of the Ishmaelites by daring to profess the Truth.
Surely there’s nothing new under the sun; the righteous have ever been slaughtered by the seeds of the serpent from the time of Cain and Abel.
Even so, something more is at play as it relates to the Muslims, the descendants of Ishmael of whom God said:
He shall be a wild ass of a man, his hand against every man and every man’s hand against him; and he shall dwell over against all his kinsmen. (Gen 16:12)
What else did God have to say of this wild ass of a man who will be a menace to humanity?
And God heard the voice of the boy [Ishmael]: and an angel of God called to Agar [his mother] from heaven, saying: What art thou doing, Agar? fear not; for God hath heard the voice of the boy, from the place wherein he is. Arise, take up the boy, and hold him by the hand, for I will make him a great nation. (Gen 21:17-18)
Notice that God does not say, “I will make him a great religion;” rather, He foretells of a great “nation” descended from Ishmael.
As for the “greatness” of nations insofar as Scripture attests, this does not necessarily mean great in virtue; rather, it may refer to the greatness of its evil deeds.
Thus says the LORD: “Behold, a people is coming from the north country, a great nation is stirring from the farthest parts of the earth. They lay hold on bow and spear, they are cruel and have no mercy, the sound of them is like the roaring sea; they ride upon horses, set in array as a man for battle, against you, O daughter of Zion!” (Jeremiah 6: 22-23)
The “great nation” of which the Lord warns through the prophet Jeremiah is none other than Babylon.
And where is modern day Babylon?
Iraq, where those in the line of that wild ass who was born of a slave woman, having drunk deeply from the demonic influence of the false prophet Muhammad, are at war with the sons of the free woman who profess Christ Jesus.
Nah… nothing of Biblical proportions happening here.
Why did God make Ishmael a great nation of evil?
Great question! My sense is that we should read this in a similar way as we read God saying of Pharaoh, “I will harden his heart.”
God does not ordain that one’s heart should be hardened at His presence; rather He allows that one the freedom to turn away.
Likewise, God does not will that nations great in evil should come to be; rather He allows man to create such nations.
FWIW, some Hebrew translations say, “I will place him in a great nation.”
…a few examples of Louie’s point taken from Scripture, and the various uses God makes of the sin of Pride:
And the Lord said to Moses: Go in to Pharao; for I have hardened his heart, and the heart of his servants: that I may work these my signs in him.
And Sehon the king of Hesebon would not let us pass: because the Lord thy God had hardened his spirit, and fixed his heart, that he might be delivered into thy hands, as now thou seest.
—Josue (Joshua) 11:20
For it was the sentence of the Lord, that their hearts should be hardened, and they should fight against Israel, and fall, and should not deserve any clemency, and should be destroyed as the Lord had commanded Moses.
Blessed is the man that is always fearful: but he that is hardened in mind, shall fall into evil.
He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart, that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.
But exhort one another every day, whilst it is called today, that none of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
Do not fear! Bergoglio has everything under control! God help us!!!
The reason the Lord is allowing this may be in today’s gospel…
“You are the salt of the earth; but if the salt loses its strength, what shall it be salted with? It is no longer of any use but to be thrown out and trodden underfoot by men.”
This is a chastisement, and it’s only just begun.
From Pat Archbold @ Creative Minority Report:
People sometimes wonder if we are headed for a chastisement.
I respond, “when you have to skip 4 or 5 beheading videos to get to the ice bucket video, trust me, you are already in the chastisement.”
What does God’s “hardening” of someone’s heart mean? Is he cruelly assigning a soul to do evil, for His own purposes? Certainly not. As we know, we can do nothing without grace – without God. We are capable of no good act on our own (truly good act).
A grave sinner, who with his own free will has already rejected God, may have further grace deprived from him such that he is from there on capable of no good. God has allowed his will to be set in the evil he has already chosen.
When does God abandon a soul to such a fate? This is really part of the Mystery of Predestination; if you don’t want to read Aquinas read Salza’s recent work on the subject, which is very readable and offers insights missed even by Garagou-Lagrange.
God may move the will as the wind moves a bird, yet the bird still travels under its own guidance.
Clear real Catholic Catechism and Exegisis, Mr Verrecchio. Much appreciated. “Surely there’s nothing new under the sun; the righteous have ever been slaughtered by the seeds of the serpent from the time of Cain and Abel.” Only Vatican II thinks there is something ‘new’ under the sun, and only those poor foolish falsely named ‘catholic’s’ who believe the same in the spirit of it.
p.s. Catholic Thinker: Guido Stucco’s ‘God’s Eternal Gift: A history of the Catholic Doctrine of Predestination from Augustine to the Renaissance’, is presented from the point of view of a Catholic theologian who, unlike GL, states, “I un-ambiguously confess that I have shifted my allegiance from what I now wish to characterize as a “Semipelagian perspective,” uncritically inherited from my European, post-Vatican II, Catholic parish upbringing and, alas!, graduate theological education, to a moderate Augustinian view exemplified by the Second Council of Orange.”
p.s. Pope Saint Pius X, a true Pope and a true Saint, pray for us:
I know this is a bit off topic, but speaking of “hardened hearts”, this over from that other religion of peace, militant atheism.
The high priest’s sermon on children with Down’s syndrome:
“If at first you don’t succeed, try and try again”… taken to a whole new level.
“From the Cross,Jesus beheld her and the disciple whom he loved, standing near, and said to the disciple, ‘Behold, your mother”
—1571 -Pope Pius V led a Rosary prayer crusade, and Christian navies defeated the Turkish fleet at the Battle of Lepanto and staved off a Moslem invasion of Europe. After the victory, Don Juan of Austria, sent this message: “Neither our strength nor our arms won the victory, but Our Lady’s Rosary!” The Pope set Oct. 7th as the Feast of Our Lady of Victory.
—1814 -Pope Pius VII, had been imprisoned in France by Napoleon. Faithful Spanish Catholics begged Our Lady Help of Christians to intercede. On May 24, 1814, the feast of Mary Help of Christians, Pope Pius VII returned triumphantly to Rome.
—2014 -June 8th, Pentecost: Pope Francis hosted an “ecumenical prayer meeting” with Arab and Jewish leaders, to Pray for Peace.
The Pope listened as an Imam invoked Allah using verses from the Qua’ran, and they all planted an olive tree in a Vatican garden.
—June 12th, 3 Israeli teens were kidnapped and killed; 3 ongoing wars continued to intensify; and on June 30th a new war broke out as Hamas fired a barrage of rockets into Israel for the first time since 2012. Meanwhile, “AbuBakr”(II)- self-proclaimed Moslem Caliphate leader of ISIS, progressed steadily in Iraq and Syria, capturing, beheadding, crucifying, torturing and displacing hundreds of thousands of Christians and sunni Moslems,in the name of God of the Qua’ran. And Russia lined up troops to help Russian-speaking separatists battle Ukraine.
—Aug 13th, 2014, Pope Francis announced A “Soccer Match for Peace” to be held in the Olympic Roman stadium in September, and posed for photos with a joyful smile, holding a colorful soccer ball.
—Aug 18 At Pope Francis insisted to the press, that the Pentecost “peace prayer meeting was absolutely not a failure”,”it opened a door”. “Now the smoke caused by the bombs and war makes the door impossible to see, but the door remained open as of that moment.”
—Aug 18-19-20, The U.N declared humanitarian disaster zones across the Middle East and in Ukraine; and W.H.O. warned Ebola Plague spreadding more rapidly across Africa as natives panicked and fled villages heeding shamans who preach distrust of Western vaccines.
—-Pope Francis, in a “surprise reversal” of his former calls for peaceful means, issued a limited call to the U.N. to stop ISIS from killing “minorities” saying “I underscore the verb ‘to stop’. I am not saying ‘bomb’ or ‘make war’, but ‘stop him’. The means by which he can be stopped must be evaluated. Stopping the unjust aggressor is legitimate.”
— August 20 ISIS posted its latest video–the beheading of 40 year old James Foley a “Stars and Stripes”press photo journalist, captured in Syria in 2012. Another ISIS “warning” to anyone daring to go against them, as U.S. air strikes helped secure Mosul’s dam.
—Faithful Catholics brace for the Pope’s Synod on the Family, October 5-19th. Pope Francis exibits eagerness to insert more Vatican II-like novelties into the Church’s “pastoral practices” and Cardinals are already battling Cardinals over what amounts to the dismantling the Churches moral law- with the Pope’s vocal admiration of Kasperian serene-mercy theology- such as allowing regular reception of the Eucharistic by people remaining in a state of adultery ( already condemned by the CDF Sept 14, 1994).
And so we pray: Our Lady of Fatima, Auxilium Christianorum [Help of Christians], Queen of the Most Holy Rosary, Intercede for us with the special intention of making and keeping all your children–especially our Roman Pontiff, completely free of the grasp of Satan and all the evil spirits who roam the world, seeking the ruin of souls.
Lord, Jesus, truly present, body, blood, soul and divinity in the Holy Eucharist, hear the prayers of Our Lady on behalf of Your faithful, and our pleas for the Consecration of Russia to be finally completed exactly as she requested, for our good, and the good of all Your Holy Church. Amen.
Maybe 2015’s Pentecost will be very different. It falls on May 24th,
the Feast of Our Lady, Help of Christians.
This post became our inspiration for post #8 below. Unbe-freakin-lievable.
Pope St. Pius X, abide with us, pray for us.
I’m so glad you linked to this. When I viewed this yesterday, I realized what a superb evangelization reference this entire treatment is. God is so good, and will place a healing balm upon our discouragement, as consolation, even while exhorting us to act with courage.
Peace be to you.
IMHO, it’s not off topic at all. It’s all intertwined, which is the entire point. Thanks for this.
God love you.
Compelling, Mr. V.
Your approach is as highly chiseled as ever.
Necessitates the raising of the lever on my nausea threshold meter for the umpteenth time. mama mia.
If you’ve ever wanted to know why the U.S., Saudi Arabia and Qatar have been funding and arming Sunni rebels in Syria and trying (and failing) to frame Al-Assad with gassing his own people, why Obama and the European Union have been and continue to be reluctant to crush an openly genocidal ISIS when it could be done with few allied casualties in a fortnight, why Turkey shut off the water supply to both Syria and Iraq and has had soldiers stationed on the border waiting for a pretext to invade for over a year now, and why Iran is sending thousands of troops armed with Russian weapons into Iraq to support the failing government of their former arch-enemies, you really need to research ‘pipeline politics’ in Syria, Turkey, and Saudi Arabia, and the planned ‘Shia pipeline’ . In particular, the gigantic South Pars/North Dome gas field, located in the Persian Gulf between Iran and Qatar. This is a game of high-stakes geo-political chess – a proxy war, if you will. The theater of war has changed, but the players are the same as back in the days of Korea and Vietnam. This time around, however, it’s Russia who is passing laws to prevent the moral decay of civilization and pumping millions of Rubles into the construction of churches and monasteries, and the U.S. who is raping its populace to benefit the 1% oligarchs and destroying the very foundations of civilization through immoral laws and institutional corruption.
@salvemur – are you suggesting that Pope Francis is not the Pope? Your comments seem to imply that. Can you please clarify.
It seems Louie believes that Pope Francis is the true Pope. Are you saying Louise is wrong or that he is not truly Catholic?
It needs to be said that it has never been permitted that mere lay people who profess to be Catholic have been allowed to go so far as openly to arrogate to themselves the right to denounce, and to find fault, with the greatest license and according to their own good pleasure, with every sort of person, not excepting bishops [bishop of Rome even], and think that with the single exception of matters of faith they are allowed to entertain any opinion which may please them and exercise the right to judge everyone after their own fashion. Please be careful about what you say.
I wish the sedavacantists were right!! The seat is occupied by Bergoglio!!!! The worst is yet to come, I fear. Prayer and Penance!
I’m not a sede by any stretch. I attend a N.O parish etc. But by your comments are you implying the Holy Father is a heretic? If so are you suggesting a material heretic can be Pope but not a formal heretic? I of course do not accept that the Pope is a heretic in the least (like I said I support him), but I’m trying to understand what you are saying.
Nicole, if you’re going to quote Pope Leo XIII, please give the Holy Father the credit. Otherwise it looks a lot like plagiarism.
Regarding its applicability to the present context, the key phrases in the quote from Pope Leo XIII are “according to their own good pleasure” and “after their own fashion”. Indeed, if one presumes to judge in this manner, they condemn themselves. Nonetheless, it remains the duty, even of simple believers with no theological competence, to judge all things and people – including prelates of the hierarchy – according to the mind of the universal Church as promulgated through her magisterial teaching. This is substantiated by Pope Leo XIII in the very same document (Est Sane Molestum) when he observes the right of the faithful, when they have “grave cause for complaint”, to submit the matter to the judgment of the Roman Pontiff, “provided always that, safeguarding prudence and the moderation counseled by concern for the common good, they do not give vent to outcries and recriminations which contribute rather to the rise of divisions and ill-feeling, or certainly increase them.” This is the crux of the matter. I presume we would have radically different interpretations of what that last phrase would mean in the present context. Or am I misreading your position?
How about this passage from holy scripture for a reference of prophecy to current events? Guess where “the great river Euphrates” runs through…? IRAQ AND SYRIA! Which part of the world has been in turmoil ever since the US led invasion of Iraq in 2003…? Well, I guess we all know the answer to that.
“And the sixth angel sounded the trumpet: and I heard a voice from the four horns of the great altar, which is before the eyes of God, saying to the sixth angel, who had the trumpet: Loose the four angels, who are bound in the great river Euphrates. And the four angels were loosed, who were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year: for to kill the third part of men.”
I ran across the following video and wanted to share it. It presents the testimony of a former Muslim Imam who, at great personal risk and suffering, converted to the Catholic faith. He is an Indian by birth, so his English can be difficult to understand, but there are decent English subtitles. Videos like this – and there are a surprising number of them from Muslim converts to Christianity – give me hope that these people can be freed from the grips of that cult of death.
could you please post proof of your claim about Francis claiming only the Abrahamic covenant is still valid, and please can you read my comment made on the “You have heard it said” article?
It is really important!
it is a ludicrous idea isn’t it?
The following article by Robert J. Siscoe covers the issue in some detail. Not everyone here agrees with everything it says – I think I remember salvemur taking objection to it – but I find it to be a relatively thorough presentation and well worth the time it takes to read, if nothing else than to simply familiarize oneself with the issues involved.
Thank you Matthew,
I’ve seen that article before and saw it refuted virtually in its totality also.
Personally I think it is complete sophistry.
According to Siscoe, Francis could dress up as Satan, celebrate a Satanic Mass in St. Peter square while shouting “I’m the Antichrist!” and still be considered a valid Pope, as long as he doesn’t “claim” to be heretic or is judged as such.
The latest part where he goes into full strawmen mode, accuses SEDEVACANTISTS of using only their “private judgment” and even says this:
“Apply the divinely inspired criterion given by our Lord Himself, and judge the sedevacantist tree by its “thorns” and its “thistles” (Mt. 7:16), and by its rotten and bitter fruits.”
IN DEFENSE of the Vatican II church is particularly amusing and ironic.
Thank you, thank you thank you
Dear Salvemur, thank you for the link to Pope Pius X, with the subsequent links to his encyclicals on modernism, which I think I will have to budget a few weeks of careful study to do them justice
Dear Matthew, thank you for the link to the Remnant article regarding different types of heresy, to gain a very helpful overview
Dear Indignus famulus , thank you for your thoughtful , reasoned overview on several points raised
And thank you for all contributors…although I at first hesitate to agree on several points of view, I at least am forced to dig deep to try and understand the topics discussed, and realise I need to study and reflect and think and ponder
To all readers, Regarding Nicole, please see our new General- FORUM -l-“IS NICOLE A TROLL-EVIDENCE RESPECFULLY SUBMITTED”
—Nicole has contradicted herself too many times on Louie’s past blogs: beginning #17 Aug 13th. demanding evidence she claims is immoral to post; not responding when it is provided; making her own public judgment of Cardinal Kasper’s words as “wrong” without any proof of what she based that judgment upon;
” Nicole August 16, 2014 7:22 pm Reply With all due respect to the Cardinal, he is wrong. All orthodox theology manuals which discuss covenental theology make it clear that only Christ saves.” –
—On other blogs, Nicole continued to to re-post out of context quotes of a respected Pope, stalling responders, then later posting a general “gotcha” statement to a group. She is then refuted and does not respond to those..
Nicole, if you are not a troll, please take this topic about criticizing the Pope to a Forum of your own, as Louie has requested that for things that side-track from his main postings, as this does..
We will most likely not participate in your Forum(s) as we consider your posts deceptively-motivated as evidenced by us here and in Forum regarding your posts.. As a warning to readers, we intend to continue to respond thusly if you continue to post on the main blog regarding these matters.
God bless you and all who visit here.
Respectfully to all: Sede is a topic for the forum, as Nicole should know from prior reminders on Louie’s Aug 13th blog.
Of course you are free to post as you wish, but in cased you missed our recent posting -just above #9- we refer you to it here. If you wish to engage Nicole in debate on this, perhaps you could start a Forum on it, so others don’t waste their time waiting for responses from her that don’t come? God Bless.
Thank you Indignus for the reminder,
what I did notice about Nicole is “she” likes to lure people into logical fallacies and adversarial discussions.
For instance, see the “are you suggesting Louie is not a true catholic” remark, or a similar one about Leo XIII in the other article’s comment section.
Also “her” refusal of answering questions or providing proof of her claims, more often than not.
However, such a behaviour is not only exclusive of trolls, but as far as my experience goes, is also common in young, enthusiastic and often inexperienced individuals.
Maybe she acts based on misguided zeal more than a voluntary, pertinacious, desire to disrupt and deceive.
Remember please John 8:7,
also what I was referring to is not a private conversation, or something beneficial or interesting to myself personally, but pertaining Fr. Kramer and his position on Francis.
As this site does not seem to have a private message function, the only way I had to be reasonably certain she would be notified is posting a comment on this article where she seems to be still active.
However I do apologise if someone, Mr. Verrecchio in particular,
is bothered by me doing so.
Dear In Hoc
We noticed that direct connection about a verse just prior to the one you mention– Chapter 9 verse 11 on what is now generally known as the terror attack of 911:
—“A king, the angel of the bottomless pit; whose name in Hebrew is Abaddon, and in Greek Apollyon; in Latin Exterminans (Latin for Destroyer),  One woe is past, and behold there come yet two woes more hereafter”
—-Not claiming to interpret the prophecy individually, but it does seem more than a bit ironic that there were 4 airplanes stolen that day by terrorists and crashed, loaded with fuel and passengers– 2 into the Twin towers, 1 into the Pentagon, and 1 into the ground near PA and Ohio-where it is believed passengers who tried to stop a 4th hit, succeeded by making the ultimate sacrifice for others. 4 Airplanes piloted by 4 terrorist, were they guided by the 4 angels from the bottomless pit? Now part of unforgettable history.
Fire and smoke and brimstone are what Revelations regards as punishment for sins it lists, which men fail to repent of, despite these attacks.
—-It is our belief that these events are being played out right now, although the Book describes two separate periods–one before and one after the 1000 years in which the Devil is chained. In the one before it, the false prophet and Beast are defeated and chained for 1000 years. In the one after it, the devil is released for a time over all the earth, (gog and magog) and then the camp of the saints is surrounded and fire falls from God to destroy those attackers.
—-We may start a forum on this, if we have time. It is mesmerizing stuff, which applies here as well, to what Louie just posted.
Although there are other well-known “day and a month and a year”
events, such as Dec 7, 1941 (Pearl Harbor), we note that it is not generally referred to in history books as 12-7 for example. Whereas 9-11 is equated with terror or the emergency services which responded to it and died saving others, here in the U.S.
Dear Indignus Famulus,
For an EXCELLENT exegesis on the book of revelation, I would highly recommend Rev Kramer’s “The Book of Destiny”
It is a rather lengthy work but well worth the read. During certain parts (eg the exegesis on chapter 12) I couldn’t put the book down.
There are certain dubious parts (some of the details he provides for certain future events) but overall he hits the nail on the head with the meaning of the symbolism in St John’s Revelation.
I couldn’t recommend the book enough.
If anybody here knows of a better work on the interpretation on the book of Revelation I would be interested to know.
WOW. This appears to be the direct intervention of God, anointing a man with the Holy Spirit. We need to go over it again to be sure there is nothing we missed, as we skimmed near the end. But if there are none, this could be a tremendous gift to the Church as a whole, in addition to the work this man is now doing.
We are so genuinely moved, we emailed Louie and asked him to take a look at it-to see if he agrees.
Thank you for finding and posting this. God Bless you.
Let us know if anyone finds anything contradicting it or questioning it’s validity please.
Indignus famulus –
I’ve had the pleasure of going on a retreat to Potta in Kerela and meeting Mario in person. He’s the real deal. They sell a book there ‘In Search of You’ that they publish themselves that has all the quotations and verses from the Koran. It has his story as well as a truly evangelistic take that seeks to convert the Muslim based on the authority of the Koran itself! It’s highly amusing as it is amazing!
And Mario is an EXCELLENT speaker! He’s very humble in this video, but you should see him when he’s on fire!
Potta is also home to another great man whose name escapes me momentarily, but he’s a Hindu convert, and he even breaks down testimony from Hinduism’s own Holy Scriptures that prophecy the coming of Christ and show that the original Hindu religion was monotheistic and quotes many ares that you could swear were right in line with the Catholic Faith.
Ultimately, the point is that following the Tower of Babel, mankind who posessed the original revelation of God was spread out all over the world and much of God’s revelation from then was preserved in the oldest religions and the oldest texts prior to pagan corruption. A similar corruption that we observe happening through modernism in our own Church now! It’s amazing stuff! This is the sort of ecumenism and evangelization we should be pursuing! We can lead people to Catholicism based on the authority of their very own sacred scriptures as they possess fragments of the authentic religion and prophecy of the coming of Christ!
Thank you very much for commenting. If you can eventually think of the man’s name – or maybe a book he’s written or a video of a presentation – please do pass it along, as this is something I’ve been researching for some time now, and would love to compare notes. I’ve done extensive research into the pre-Christian religions of Europe as well as those of Ancient Persia and Vedic India, going as far as to acquire a working knowledge of 4 Germanic languages, Sanskrit and some Avestan to help me in my studies. I’m convinced that the various Indo-European peoples retained numerous fragments of original revelation, though they were badly deformed over the millennia, and that Our Lord came to fulfill not only Jewish prophecy, but also that of the Gentiles. That’s a statement which is often met with a great deal of skepticism and/or resistance, but once you start putting the pieces together, it opens an interesting avenue of approach to the Gospel.
It seems those that call you a troll do so with good reason! You keep posting the same nonsensical generalities but ignore any substantive reply. Here’s part of one of mine:
Your lumping of the SSPX, the Remnant, CFN, and Louie in with the others here makes no sense given that not only are none of these groups or individuals sedevacantists, almost all of them have devoted much effort in past decades to combating the sedevacantist error.
Of course, you are quite wrong when you insist that “There are two parties: the teaching and the taught, the Shepherd and the flock.”, with no exceptions. God is not bound by your generalizations. Here’s just a little bit on that score:
Pope Leo XIII wrote this: “When circumstances make it necessary, ***it is not prelates alone who have to watch over the integrity of the faith.***”
Scripture Itself condones (we might say “commands”) the correction of clergy by inferiors:
“Do not entertain an accusation against an elder unless it is brought by two or three witnesses. Those who sin are to be rebuked publicly, so that the others may take warning.” (1 Timothy 5:19-20)
St. Thomas agrees: “When there is an imminent danger for the Faith, Prelates must be questioned, even publicly, by their subjects.” – St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica II, II, q33, a4.
Many more quotations from saints, theologians, and doctors could be brought forth. And, we have canon law – the 1983 Code:
212.3: “According to the knowledge, competence, and prestige which they possess, they [the laity] ***have the right and even at times the duty to manifest to the sacred pastors their opinion on matters which pertain to the good of the Church and to make their opinion known to the rest of the Christian faithful***, without prejudice to the integrity of faith and morals, with reverence toward their pastors, and attentive to common advantage and the dignity of persons.”
You’re definitely on to something there. 🙂
You may enjoy the short read “A Century of War” – it’s a history of the petrodollar.
Your comments illustrate the fact that you – and sedes in general – don’t understand what makes a pope valid.
“Berto”, Mr. Siscoe in that section you criticize is making the entirely valid and virtually indisputable point that one can scarcely find a more holistically-judgemental and, frankly, uncharitable group of people on the face of the earth than the dogmatic sedevacantists. Yes, that’s right: it’s virtually indisputable. Also indisputable in the fact that they not only fight amongst themselves like cats and dogs, they go as far as to “excommunicate” each other, declaring each other to be non-Catholics, and further declaring that anyone who “maintains communion” with them – as with the pope himself (incredibly lousy pope that he is) – commits grave sin!
Such thinking and such behavior have never been seen by reputable Catholics, and, as Mr. Siscoe demonstrates, no theologian in the history of the Church ever advocated what they do: that individual Catholics can & must declare a pope deposed.
Here are some of my thoughts regarding a novusordowatch piece, which are actually quite applicable to the dogmatic sedevacantist crowd in general:
The only way to fail to understand that Pope Francis’ words are infected with material heresy is to fail to understand Church teaching itself – most likely by being infected with modernism, meaning that one doesn’t really believe there is any such thing as truly immutable teaching to begin with.
Do you believe in absolute truth? And do you believe the Catholic dogma that She possesses this in the form of the Deposit of Faith?
@nicole – of course i’m stating that Bergoglio is not and has never been Christ’s Vicar, not on earth or any other planet. I don’t really care what Louie calls him as a title – Louie’s critique of the creature that I really think is just another of satan’s vicars, is always valid.
We’d like to be able to believe your alternative, but saw too much evidence of a willingness and practiced tendency to “use any means necessary” to appear to have won an argument she never really participated in.-including luring people into working to produce responses she promised to reply to, but obviously had no intention of answering individually; claiming no one did as she requested even after thanking us for doing just she had requested. Those are deceits and “me first”- behaviors which belie a genuine concern for the hierarchy- as her “Kasper is wrong” comment demonstrated. The standard is sincerity.
Gennady Zyuganov ran for the Communist Party as a candidate for Russian President –possibly more than once. Everyone thought him a nut-job from the way the press described him, but he kept coming in second.
His philosophy was to take Russia back to the glory days, and conquer the entire hemisphere, running oil and gas pipelines and controlling interests from North to South. Putin gives him gifts like -a copy of the Communist Manifesto, on special birthdays-like Stalin’s. He’s still very influential.
John 8:7? In what sense since we invited her to start a forum if she is not a troll? Care to explain ?. .
Re; your quest for a reply from her for Father Kramer’s sake, we’d be glad to help you research that, if there is any evidence to find. You were hoping for proof Pope Francis thinks the Jews still need to convert and that his belief about their continued Covenant is through Abraham and therefore just refers to their being His chosen people who broke their end of the bargain, while God never breaks His? .. .
Fascinating. And so good to have it re-confirmed that he’s genuine.
We had to wonder of Pope Francis would do a “Tony Palmer” move, if Mario had met him before his Baptism, -would he have been urged to stay a Moslem and serve as a better Bridge?.
We saw people lose the Faith over John Paul kissing the Qua’ran, because they knew what was in it that was false, but because of that, perhaps there was a splitting into two camps- affect that hindered those interested in real evangelizing efforts (missionary work) from learning as much about the kind of things Mario spoke of so eloquently. Let’s hope he’s not been inundated with the modernist philosophies in his higher training, as so many seminarians have, or do you know anything about his views on Vatican II or his knowledge of Church tradition?.
This is interesting, because Americans are part of such a melting pot of differing cultures. If we can find inroads like this to reach many different religions more effectively,- those here typically keep in touch with relatives back home-,and once converted-because of those personal connections, the outreach then might geometrically increase between the continents regardless of the oceans-that separate us. God bless you for all that time and effort in learning all those languages, what a labor of love that is.
Dear In Hoc,
We’ve read it, and you’re right, it provides a lot of different insights and possibilities. Although, since it seems we’re living through it, we not sure we need the speculative interpretations as much anymore. We’ve always found it helpful to study Matthew 24-25 of course, but the Old Testament especially for theme- connections contains more than just Daniel and the other prophets. Lists of sins written exactly in the same words and order trace easily to Revelations.. Although the whole point of that may just be to show us that human nature never changes, and sin takes over when it’s not fought in individuals fiercely enough to stop it from taking over cultures. Too late for that right now, as we’re in salvage what we can-mode.. Fatima is still the answer..
This would make a fascinating forum topic, if you’re interested in starting one.
maybe I misunderstood your comment.
What I meant to convey to Nicole is merely yet another request for information she claimed to hold, namely the specifics on the Abrahamic/Mosaic distinction in Francis’ statements etc. I do not wish to debate or open a forum about it, simply if what she says is true and she could prove it, it would help a lot of people esp. Fr. Kramer. I haven’t been able to find confirmation for her claim anywhere else, so if it is legit it would be of the utmost importance.
“A catholic thinker”,
I had written a lenghty response but since Sede is not a argument beloning to the comment section of articles, as I am told, I have cut it down to the following few lines, only pertaining to my comments in the previous post:
you commit the same error (actually a debating tactic), of Siscoe.
Namely, lumping all the individuals who happen to hold the “sevecatantist” position together and use the fact they’re disagreeing with one another as proof of the Sedevacantist position itself being erroneous.
Of course this is the peak of hipocrisy in my opinion, how about looking into your own church as far as division goes? Basically the only thing in common is the self-appointed label “catholic”.
With the difference of course that Sedevacantist aren’t even part of the same organization. So the issue itself is nonsensical.
Also quite sad the strawman of citing one extreme “sedevacantist” position or the other in the attempt of leading people to believe everyone (labeling himself as such) is that way, in order to discredit the (imaginary) movement.
Do you really fail to see why calling upon on Mt. 7:16 IN DEFENSE of the Vatican II church is ironic in this case?
What’s more rotten than the fruits of the last 60 years of VII?
The Church has never witnessed something so putrid, and no, not even the Arian controversy.
Same as the accusation of using their “own private judgement”(!!!) coming from a person who does exactly that not only once and for all in regards to the validity of one individual pontiff (or cardinal) but CONSTANTLY about every single WORD coming out of the Vatican II church since 1960!
One final note: since you have gone so far as to restrict the notion of formal heresy and its applicability to a tiny and improbable situation, you now have no way out. As I said a theoretical “pope” could do ANYTHING short of publicly and solemnly declaring oneself a heretic, or the Cardinalate warning him 2 times then formally excommunicating him (why would they if they are all pretty much, probably, in accord with him? or even worse) and get away with it.
Yes, public wold-vision Satanic Masses and even sodomy in public, destroying crucifixes, burning down St. Peter, you name it.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but this is the “official” Siscoe-ist position?
Dear A Catholic Thinker, Exactly. It is a simple matter of logic. Unnecessarily complicating matters is the typical means to hide the truth and mislead people. The truth is not complicated. We are all called to know the Faith and the moral law on reaching the age of reason.
Quick comment….the other, often used Scriptural and Traditional meaning for the word ‘great’ is in terms of a large number. (i.e….James the greater is older than James the lesser).
The muhammadins are certainly and irrefutable many.
Ahh, ok. This helps it make sense. Thank you Indignus and Louie!
I’m confused. Are you suggesting God inspired proto-European pre-Christian religions too?
I could be wrong, but I think the “Greater” and “Lesser” titles for the James is simply a rendering of the Latin “maior” and “minor” used to distinguish homonymous figures or characters such in the case of Cato Minor and Cato Maior (Marcus Porcius Cato and his great great grandfather).
While the term can carry the meaning of phisically or numerically bigger, in this case it refers only to age, like its Romance counterparts.
Evidenced by James the “Greater” being similarly named in all aforementioned languages: Mayor/Majeur/Maggiore/Maior respectively in Spanish/French/Italian and Portuguese.
In the Vulgate*
No, Bert. I’m suggesting that the Jews were not the only people with a memory and the ability to pass things down to posterity. Revolutionary stuff, huh?
Ok, so you mean they retained in some form or another the ancestral memory of Genesis after Eden up to their ancestor splitting from the others and migrating all over the world (I’m not very versed in OT history)?
Or to a later time and revelation?
Do you have any forum/blog posting about this? Elsewhere maybe?
I find the idea brilliant, and possibly a way to reconcile cosmological syncretism with the truths of Psalms 96:5 and 1 Cor. 10:20, while remaining in the orthodox side of things.
Thank you in advance.
In the Catholic Bible, it’s Psalms 95:5, but yes, there are several passages in the Old Testament as well as in the New which offer little glimpses into the biblical view of other historical religions, though the work of pulling them together to form a cohesive theology has yet to be done. Of course, many of the immediate neighbors of the Hebrews practiced particularly crude forms of polytheism laced with animism and/or fetishism, and were roundly condemned. But the record is slightly more nuanced than that. For example, the figure of Cyrus the Great – of undoubted importance in Old Testament history – was not a Hebrew, and did not practice the religion of Moses, and is nonetheless spoken of in the highest possible terms, going even as far as calling him ‘the anointed one of the Lord’ (Isaiah 45:1). In all likelihood, he was a follower of monotheistic Zoroastrianism, but this fact did not prevent him from having been truly inspired and even actively empowered by God. In this context one could also consider the Magi of the East – very probably Zoroastrian priest-astrologers – who followed the star of Bethlehem to pay homage to Our Lord. This should not alarm us, as it is certain that all men – even pagans – have guardian angels, and the Holy Ghost has always worked among pious pagans in order to prepare them to receive the Gospel. Granted, the Church Fathers were not unanimous on the theological import of other religions. Those who were raised as Christians were generally more categorical in their rejection and demonization than those who converted as adults. There we find slightly more appreciation of the actual – as opposed to sanctifying – grace God could and did shed upon the pagans in order to bring them to the fullness of truth in Christ.
So, I see two main elements to consider in the evaluation of pagan religions: (1) the fragments of original revelation which were passed down, usually through oral tradition, to posterity of which we find numerous examples around the world (Adam and Eve, the Garden of Eden, the Flood of Noah, a belief in demons and angels, heaven, hell, etc.) – though, of course, without writing and with the wound of original sin, those histories and theological truths became twisted and deformed over time -, and (2) those occasions of actual grace and even, in some cases, apparent prophecy regarding the coming of the Lord which pious pagans received from God.
I’m still in the research phase, so I haven’t written extensively on the subject, but it could open up interesting avenues for future evangelization. It’s easy to dismiss all aboriginal paganism – which is not to be confused with post-Christian cults such as Islam – as “devil worship”, and there is clear biblical precedent for doing so. No doubt, demon worship was, in fact, going on. But learning to see ancient paganism through the lense of biblical revelation, and to acknowledge their deep yearning for the truth they would eventually discover in Christ, as well as their deep affliction by the demonic, is far more rewarding and, I feel, honest in regards to the historical record. Besides, the typical Judeo-centric view of the ancient world often blinds us to the fact that God selected ‘His chosen people’ for the very purpose of saving the Gentiles from damnation. As He said to Abraham at the very founding of the covenant which would culminate in Christ: “And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed” (Genesis 22:18).
Thank you for your response,
this is all very interesting.
Without going much into details, and wishing you for a fruitful research into the subject, I suppose the presence of genuine revelation elements and/or divine worship in other religions doesn’t exclude a later demonic intervention on the ignorant and defenseless (from a spiritual standpoint) heathens.
For instance, I’ve always pictured that, apart from outright made-up deities and superstitions, much of the idols and practices (especially the most barbaric and sinful ones) were none other than demons in disguise appearing to them, and purposefully leading them astray.
Of course we have no way to know today what really happened back in those days (but we are witnesses to contemporary demonic actions and their modus operandi in trying to distort the faith, all over the world).
At the same time, God in His omnipotence and omniscience may have “forced” the demons to make transpire bits of truth in His foresight, for instance a histotical documented case may have been the Female Earth-deities of Central America predating the arrival of the Gospel, partly through which many indians came to accept Catholicism and Our Lady (as shown in the movie “La Otra Conquista”).
As far as Islam goes, evidence seems to support a mixture of Mohammad’s private egotistical drive and demonic inspiration. Allah shares some tracts with Satan (ie being a deceiver, see their views on the “death” of their “prophet Isa” and the role of Allah in the deception, and other passages), also the whitewashing of the truths about demons into the Djinns (who aren’t evil per se, admittently this comes also from prior arabic traditions).
In fact “Djinns” themselves, and several other folklore creatures from all around the world resemble the actions of demons as we know them (also see the Scottish Witch Trials).
The topic is very complex, and I’ll stop here for now.
ps: yes you are right, it’s 95:5, which in the Vulgate reads “omnes enim dii populorum sculptilia Dominus autem caelos fecit” referring to idols and not demons, but nonetheless implying they are false gods.
As for Islam, it provides us with an opportunity to study what happens to truth when the diabolical is given free reign: it is twisted, deformed and perverted. What could be more clearly diabolical than referring to a religion which calls for all Christians and Jews to be either enslaved or beheaded as “The Religion of Peace”? The handwriting of the Liar is clearly legible. Nonetheless, it would be a huge mistake for us to forget that the Devil is all about twisting the truth. That is, even in his lies, there is a kernel of original truth. Of course, there is no truth contained in the Koran which was not taken from the Bible, and we gain nothing in the way of understanding the truth by studying the Koran. But we do become aware of the fragments of truth contained in it, as was so beautifully demonstrated in the video I linked to above. This would seem to be one area where dialogue with Muslims could prove fruitful for future evangelization.
“Berto” (I put your moniker in quotes as you seem to have many personas),
1) I agree that the fact that there is [extensive, bitter] infighting among the dogmatic sedevacantist crowd is not proof positive that the position is erroneous. However, “by their fruits you shall know them” does carry a bit of water.
2) Er, “your own church” [sic] – are we to presume that you are not Catholic? If so, what are you doing here?
3) A pope being valid isn’t connected with his spiritual state – this is exactly analogous to the Catholic *fact* that a priest in mortal sin – no matter how disgusting – is still a priest who confects valid sacraments. This question spawned an entire heresy, and the condemnation of it, you know.
That is all I have to say. Good day.
I just posted a forum topic on Islam under All Things Catholic. It links to the very first podcast from OnePeterFive.com where, during the second portion of the podcast, Steve Skojec interviews one of his contributors, author Andrew Bieszad about Islam.
I found the information riveting and highly recommend all listen. Mr. Bieszad is an American cradle Catholic who became interested in Islam while in Middle School. He has an MA in Islamic Studies and is fluent in Arabic
Dear “Anonymous hypocritical user with a meaningless pseudonym who was one of the two people actually requesting me to change my original nickname because you deemed it offensive”,
1) Nice way of reiterating more meaningless dribble while ignoring not only my explanation but also the leviathan in the room, ergo the FRUITS of the Vatican II Church.
2)Er, feigning ignorance on the sedevacantist stance regarding the “Vatican II church” (which they believe is NOT the Catholic Chuch but merely a schismatic apostate offshot) for the purpose of throwing at others trollish accusations doesn’t suit a gentleman, you should know that. I thought you were a expert of sorts on the issue seeing how you write articles refuting “NovusOrdoWatch”‘s ones?
3)Of course. How silly of me! Surely celebrating publicly satanic masses has no bearing on his formal heretical status, nor publicly shouting he’s the antichrist, or smashing crucifixes! Or maybe even denying the validity and historicity of parts of the New Testament in his books I suppose? No, no no, those are “spiritual” states.
Dear Berto….I think it’s a both/and with the word great or greater in Scripture. As I said and you reiterated, greater or lesser after a name means more or less years of age. There are plenty of examples where ‘great’ refers to a very large number, and is not used in the modern western sense of being better than something else.
I think we should differentiate between “Great/er” coming from “Maior” and expressing age, and “Great” translating “Magnus”(latin) or “Megalos”(greek) for instance used to describe Cyrus or Alexander or even some of the Saints (who, unlike James, have no homonyms) in order to express their gloriousness etc. .
You see, the english word used is the same but the original have different etymologies and meanings.
In fact, in modern english the closest synonim for the Greater when referred to James et similia is “the Elder”.
Having said that, good luck in your research on the subject.
Sorry for the late reply. I would absolutely love to discuss this more. Perhaps you can start a forum topic?
For Mario (Maulavi Sulaiman)’s book it’s called ‘In Search of You.’ It’s a self-published book by Nirmala Offset printers. I doubt you can get it from anywhere other than directly from him, though perhaps that’s changed? YOur best bet is looking up the Divine Retreat Center. They’re from Kerela but priests go on missions in the U.S. and Canada as well. If you want to start a forum topic I can happily quote portions of the book that cite the Koran and Mario’s explanation of them.
The other Hindu convert I mentioned is Aravindaksha Menon and he also has a self-published book called Divine Harmony published by Divine Printers & Publishers. It contains stuff from the Gita, Rigveda and other Sanskrit Vedic books of ancient Hinduism. Some truly remarkable stuff in there, Menon, who was a Brahmin and studied them provides many examples:
“After the creation of the firmament, Earth & waters, the Holy Spirit of the God thought like this: “I have created all the Worlds. For them I should create a protector (Saviour). With this intention, the Holy Spirit created a male from His own self.” – Ithareyopanishad 1:1:3
“It is definitely this very same male who exists now, who has gone by and who is expected to come. Not only that, it is this same male who controls the state of eternity (immortality). It is for the redemption of mankind, he surpasses his immortal sphere and descends to the mortal sphere. He comes to give everyone recompense as per his deeds. – Rigveda X:90:2
“King Shaka asked, “May I know who you are?!” With apparent joy that male replied, “Know that I am the Son of God. I am born in the womb of a virgin. ‘Easa Maseeha’ is my well known name.” – Bhavishya Purana – Prathisarga Parva, IIIrd part – 2nd chapter – 23rd verse.
“This man, the first born of the God, was tied to a wooden sacrificial post and the gods and the kings along with the seers performed the sacrifice.” – Rigveda X:90:7
“This (sacrifice) is the only way for the redemption and liberation of mankind. Those who meditate and attain this man, believe in heart and chant with the lips, get liberated in this world itself and there is no other way for salvation too.” – Rigveda X:90:16.
Menon includes the Sanskrit in the original language in his book too, as does Mario.
There are other remarkable findings too from other sources such as the Ancient Chinese and no doubt many are familiar with the similar creation and flood myths from cultures around the world. Very intriguing stuff. Would love to discuss those and other findings.
I should also mention that I’d recently finished going through the entire work ‘City of God’ by St. Augustine. There are many remarkable things he discusses with regards to the pagan deities…
– Some indeed are the work of demons.
– Some were mortal men or women raised to cult status and worshipped as gods.
– Even more remarkably, the Romans in higher places of learning admitted the gods were false and even evil, but for fear of the crowds and followers, they wouldn’t dare to suggest this openly. Some Romans remarking on the Jews admitted that at least the Jews knew where their religion comes from, whereas Romans had absolutely no idea where their deities began and started.
– Deities were even imported from other lands after conquest and added to the pantheon, a sort of snythesis to basically create an attitude of tolerance and one world religion by accepting even contradictions.
– Augustine details the account from other sources where a king once consulted the oracles and gods to know from whence their deities come from. He eventually did receive an answer and detailed it in a book, but then from fear asked to be buried with his work so that no one would read it. His tomb was unearthed and the book found and passed to the authorities. Upon reading it, they grew so fearful to learn the truth about their deities that they destroyed it ensuring that no one ever learn who the pagan gods actually were and how they came to be for fear of what it would do to the nation.
– There are remarkable oracles form even the pagans, including one Egyptian high priest who prophecised the coming end of the Egyptian gods by the coming of another true religion.
A truly remarkable work is City of God. Also of interest, there is something of intrigue being researched in scientific fields with regards to the idea that much of pagan myth and archetypes might in fact be records of astronomy, about a sky that might have been extraordinarily different in the past that what we see now. We really should discuss all this in Louie’s forum!
Oh for heaven’s sake. *facepalm*