My conservative Catholic friends love them some “smells and bells” in the Mass of Paul VI. Sure, I get it, but the truth of the matter is this: traditional elements such as these in the context of the Novus Ordo ultimately do more harm than good.
Novus Ordo “Smells and Bells”
May 23, 2014
71 Comments
Another excellent video – well worth sharing about. The new mass is a voyeur’s mass. Paul VI put his stamp on a completely unCatholic worship and also rejigged rites of ordination for bishops and priests, thus also messing with the certainty of longstanding and infallible rites of apostolic succession. Surely no pope has ever done more to destroy the Rock than Montini – but then he was Roncalli’s choice to take the council forward so I guess you can’t really seperate a vii john from a vii paul, or a vii john paul from a vii john or a vii paul, or a vii john paul from a vii john paul etc. The new mass with its new sermons (world-view) and its but-wait-there’s-more-ministers is not part of Church Tradition – it is a protestant-masonic-rabbinical mish-mash of ‘no unbloody sacrifice in front of the heretics’ please. If something against the Tradition of the Church is introduced from outside the Church by the ‘church’, it must be deeply fallible, as anyone with a wit of Faith must surely see.
In this context, it is interesting to note yet more errors that were being spread in the Church well before the Second Vatican Council convened; errors that are in no way addressed by the addition of “bells and smells”.
In 1947, Pope Pius wrote the following in Mediator Dei:
“82. The fact, however, that the faithful participate in the eucharistic sacrifice does not mean that they also are endowed with priestly power. It is very necessary that you make this quite clear to your flocks.
83. For there are today, Venerable Brethren, those who, approximating to errors long since condemned[82] teach that in the New Testament by the word ‘priesthood’ is meant only that priesthood which applies to all who have been baptized; and hold that the command by which Christ gave power to His apostles at the Last Supper to do what He Himself had done, applies directly to the entire Christian Church, and that thence, and thence only, arises the hierarchical priesthood. Hence they assert that the people are possessed of a true priestly power, while the priest only acts in virtue of an office committed to him by the community. Wherefore, they look on the eucharistic sacrifice as a ‘concelebration,’ in the literal meaning of that term, and consider it more fitting that priests should ‘concelebrate’ with the people present than that they should offer the sacrifice privately when the people are absent”.
Thank you for the video,Mr. V. ! I’ll be back after I stop weeping.
dear Dumb_ox,
What a splendid comment. Thank you for it.
Excellent video! he he I recognized the church of St John Cantius in Chicago : ) in one of the still photos…
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Just one point I digress with Mr V – if a priest has no option but to celebrate the NO, I believe that it does make a huge difference whether or not he celebrates it ad orientem. In the chapel of Our Lady of the Pilar in Zaragoza, Spain, where the 2000 year old stone pilar is preserved (with Our Lady’s statue on top), the ad orientem arrangement (and communion in the knees) have been miraculously preserved through the post-conciliar apostasy.
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http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Capilla_de_Nuestra_Se%C3%B1ora_del_Pilar#mediaviewer/Archivo:Capilla_del_Pilar.JPG
Salvemur,
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You are deeply uncharitable with soon to be “Blessed” Paul VI, to be “beatified” during the Bergoglian “October Revolution”… You should be a good well behaved novus ordite and be singing the praises of the Paulian mass instead, much like Card Muller… Wait… Wasn’t October also the month that the Bolsheviks took power in Petrograd?
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Whatever happened to all those rumours of “Bl” Paul VI frequenting unreputable places (to say it very mildly and charitably) during his stay in Milan? Maybe those reports (assuming they do exist) have been carefully concealed in the Vatican archives and the “postulators” for his cause have cowardly refrained from examining them?
oops “digress” = “disagree”
oh dear. did you hear the one about the novus ordites having mass on Tornado Alley. They all ended up the spout because they thought it was the latest thing!
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the Truth is the Truth.
Louie, you hit it right in the eye.
I was a member of a wonderful NO parish, blessed with a wonderful, orthodox, pastor. Every Sunday he reverently celebrated Mass at the old high altar, in Latin, with a full choir and orchestra. I loved it.
I was always struck by how nothing seemed to fit together. It always seemed that the celebrant was either waiting on the choir, or the choir on the celebrant. Because the Canon is said aloud, the celebrant had to wait for the Sanctus/Benedictus to conclude.
It was all beautiful, but very awkward. The elements left of Tradition impeded the elements of the NO. The Mass seemed to go on forever.
It became obvious to me that whoever designed the NO designed it as a stand-alone rite. Tradition and the NO were designed to not fit together.
At every N.O. “Mass”, the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Our Lord is desecrated, manhandled and abused. The NO “mass” is intrinsically UNHOLY and no amount of dressing up can change that. That is the bottom line for me.
If you paint a zebra brown, it may look more like a horse—but it’s still a zebra! Thank you, Tradwriter, for another great video!!
p.s. the false beatification – we may as well call it what it is – of paul VI should be a wake up call for anyone who has any faith in Christ and His Church – but they all bought the false canonisations of roncalli and woltyla as if the true Church Triumphant was always a get together for judases. too many ‘Catholics’, are like those horses they put hoods on so they can be led about passively – they’ve been led about in the dark so long that black popes and shadow-masses, and shadow-catholicism seems fine to them.
And let’s not forget that outrageous statement in Summorum Pontificum that the TLM and the NO are “two forms of the same rite.” That is just a bald-faced lie. Politically expedient perhaps, but a lie nonetheless.
There is another deceptive use of the NO, an external one, employed by too many bishops – namely, to offer it in Latin as (a) a sop to those who are looking for a real TLM, or even worse, (b) to claim that their Latin NO is the same as the TLM.
What a devastating punishment God is inflicting upon us…
brethren,
please help me because I think I am going to faint.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaNu87RN4LA&list=UUxshhzR907v2w6DjICyAgLQ
Archbishop Lefebvre, pray for us.
Pray, pray much for the Holy Father.
dear GreatPretender51,
this is how a Catholic speaks. On point, with precision. Well said. Thank you.
Salvador, for some reason I couldn’t respond directly to your last comment. Anyway, I saw an Orthodox person on another blog say that with the canonization of John XIII & JPII the Roman Catholic Church has officially canonized Ecumenism. Even non-Catholics have taken notice.
my dear salvemur,
you are a sad Christian! Don’t you know sad Christians aren’t Christian? You should be giggling now !!!
Oh for crying out loud, it did respond directly. Doh!
heheh, hey guys, I think the respond column is getting too skinny maybe. yep, it’s all about ec-you-man-ism these days. the false qanonisations were an attempt to consolidate the mess of vii. could you imagine St Peter trying to convince people that Judas was really a saint? this is the mission of VII – the rehabilitation of the man with the thirty peices (and the men with their thirty bits of moon-grit) he was concerned for the poor, dobbed our Lord into the ‘authorities’, and all with a kiss of ‘brotherly lurve’.
de Maria – it’s actually absurdly accurate. ‘King abudabi says, ‘Francis is the conscience of the world’. well, how true is that – skankie Frankie is the ‘CONSCIENCE OF THE WORLD’.
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meanwhile this makes more sense than a pope being the world’s, and not the Church’s, conscience.
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http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8N_tupPBtWQ
dear salvemur,
I must be desensitized. Your link seems crystal clear to me, compared to current blather !
The Pope mobile should have one of those coexist bumper stickers on the back.
I’m pretty sure one is sewn inside the pope’s yarmulke. what’s to be done when the ‘successor of Peter’, is actually the oppressor of Peter? just seems most people have ‘no problem’ that VII is a complete inversion of, ‘ “Who is a liar, but he who denieth that Jesus is the Christ? This is Antichrist, who denieth the Father, and the Son. Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father. He that confesseth the Son, hath the Father also.”- 1 John 2:22-23 -“And every spirit that dissolveth Jesus, is not of God: and this is Antichrist, of whom you have heard that he cometh, and he is now already in the world.”- 4:3.
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but the viipopes continue to proclaim that those who ‘denieth the Son’, and who ‘dissolvith Jesus’, are not Antichrist.
I don’t get it. It seems so clear. Laid out in Scripture by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit and the very words of Jesus Himself. How can so many be so blind?? It’s as if Christ and His Church has no enemies anymore. What happened to “you will know them by their fruits”? The enemies of the Church are tearing any resemblance of Catholic culture to bits and the Hierarchy kisses their butts?!
I think you’ve hit the nail on the head. any authentic Catholic knows that the Church in but not of the world has the world for an enemy. so, when Catholics pretend publicly that the Church has no enemies other than, well, according to most VII popes, the Church, something is not right. May God have pity on us remnant and give us true priests.
Brothers and sisters, I feel as though something is very very wrong and nobody else sees it (except folks on here). It just seems to get worse each passing day.
brethren,
I pray for the safety of the current Supreme Pontiff during his journey. But I can watch updates no more.
Oh, Peeeeth, Peeeth, Peeeeth.
my dear brethren,
what happened to the words of His Majesty Our Lord Jesus Christ?
“—nolite arbitrari quia venerim mittere pacem in terram non veni pacem mittere sed gladium—“
brethren,
it’s time, along with reading Mr. V., to bring out the big armament, for your nourishment —-along with magnificent holy images to enjoy as you listen, Fr. Hesse on the true meaning of ecumenism
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfQLUJU8AG0
dear JamesTheLesser.
I admire you, and all here. You are Catholic. You are not talking about converting to “orthodoxy,”–further seeking “truth” because of current strife, mutiny, jumping ship, etc. May you be an example for us. Keep the Faith, my friends. May the Peace of His Majesty Our Lord Jesus Christ, a Peace unlike the peace of this world, be to you.
de Maria, thank you! And God bless you!
Wow. Not even a day has passed an there’s 28 replies. In response to the second: Edu, can you cite the “unreputable places” visited by Paul VI? I have not yet been able to understand to what you’re referring. However this interview with Alice vH is well worth digesting.
http://www.topusnewstoday.com/interview-with-alice-von-hildebrand-should-pope-paul-vi-be-canonized.html
The Victor of Lepanto is surely spinning in his tomb.
Brethren, to those that can read between the lines, does it seem like the snake Skorka is using the Pope to try and open the Vatican vault, or knowing he won’t perpetuate the idea that Piux XII and Catholics were complicit in the Holocaust?
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/23/argentina-jewish-community-friend-francis-pope-rabbi-abraham-skorka
It’s good that Louie recognizes all this. Yet it’s strange that, in spite of this recognition, he continues to frequent the Novus Ordo service and thereby objectively manifest approval of this revolutionary fabrication. Instead, the best thing to do would be to never be seen at it again, thus avoiding the schizophrenia of objectively manifesting approval while simultaneously subjectively rejecting the nonsense.
skankie frankie said, “…inside every Christian there is a Jew!”
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the thing is, if that were true, we would not be Christ’s and Christ would not be in us because a jew denies Christ.
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In Christ, St Paul tells us, there is niether Jew nor Greek. So, Frankie, you are quite diabolically wrong on this, as on most of what you profess to believe.
Hello Louie. I don’t know if this was your intent, but it seems to me that what you say about adding “smells and bells” to the Mass of Paul VI is a condemnation of the “EWTN Mass”. I stopped watching EWTN when Father Mitch Pacwa (a Jesuit) began to append “the great” to the name of John Paul II. It just didn’t “feel right” — chalk it up to sensus catolicus. At the time I was completely unaware of heterodox teachings of JPII like Assissi. Now it becomes clear to me that Father Mitch had a hidden agenda in promoting Vatican II to conservative Catholics. Thank you for opening my eyes to this reality. Yours in Christ, Michael.
Alphonsus,
I agree with you. My husband and I both are very disappointed to see that Louie will attend the NO considering his zealous stance against the modernists and the “New Church”. This doesn’t mean that I don’t understand what it’s like to be caught without , at times, a Traditional Mass to attend given the ridiculously few options one has to attend a Latin Mass anywhere anytime. We have so far made the sacrifices to travel two or more hours in order to avoid the NO. We attend a Traditional Mass offered by a NO priest which is a 45 minute drive every Sunday. I am struggling immensely with the fact that our priest is a NO priest but it is either that or we don’t attend Mass. We have many children of all ages and I find it very hard. Even though I find it disappointing to hear that Louie attends the NO at times I can understand the dilemma he most likely is in. We truly feel cornered. Our NO priest said that we could ask for a dispensation from attending the NO if we really could not find aTraditional Mass to attend. I was surprised that he said this and we will take him up on this the next time our Traditional Mass is cancelled when our NO priest can’t find a replacement. Our situation nonetheless still leaves us in agony. I guess we are just going to have to remain in this agony until by the grace of God we will be delivered from this awful crisis. I wonder if Louie is in as much agony with his NO Mess as we are with our with our traditional Mass said by a NO priest?
from the snares of the devil, Jesus deliver us
P.S. Alphonsus, do you know whatever happened to Placido Pax?
St Athanasius – excommunicated by the dubious pope liberius – said to the faithful, ‘ May God comfort you. I know moreover that not only this thing saddens you, but also the fact that while others have obtained the churches by violence, you are meanwhile cast out from your places. For they hold the places, but you the Apostolic Faith. They are, it is true, in the places, but outside of the true Faith; while you are outside the places indeed, but the Faith is within you. Let us consider which is the greater, the place or the Faith. Clearly the true Faith’.
Again an excellent, edifying video. For those who don’t realize that there are fundamental differences between the NO service and THE mass of the Latin Rite consider these differences and consequences:
1. For over forty years, the words of consecration in English-speaking countries were changed from “for many” to “for all” calling into question the validity of all masses celebrated with this formula due to defects in the form and intention of the sacrament at the heart of the mass.
2. The NO service (it is not properly called a Rite of the Latin Church since it is not what was received and handed down by the Church) reflects a different conception of the Mass which emphasizes a communal memorial meal aspect and deemphasizes/obfuscates the sacrificial aspect of the Mass.
3. The practice of the NO service reflects a different conception of the respective roles of the priest and the laity in attendance – according roles to the laity that are properly those of the priest.
4. The NO service is almost exclusively said in the vernacular in disobedience to the norms that accompanied the promulgation of the service which required that elements of the service be said in Latin.
5. The NO service intentionally downplays/deemphasizes/eliminates traditional Catholic doctrine and dogmas that are reflected in the Roman Rite (i.e., the TLM). This watering down of the Mass was done to make it more appealing to protestants presumably so they would join the Church, When it did not work out that way, many of the same people who pushed for these changes instead of recognizing their abject failure, started pushing a radical form of ecumenism that falsely teaches that protestant sects are means of salvation. The attitude of these people was – if they won’t join our new, improved RCC 2.0 we will deny that there are any meaningful differences between the RCC and the protestant sects.
6. One consequence of the change is that it destroys the unity of the Church since a catholic can no longer travel to a foreign country and participate in the mass since it will frequently be in a foreign language. With the Roman Rite a catholic could meaningfully participate in a Mass wherever he travelled because it was the same everywhere. Further, subverters even want the mass to be inculturated with local profane customs to make the liturgical practices as different as possible across regions and countries, again wounding the unity of the Church.
7. The NO service has been used by innovators/subverters to incorporate abuses and novelties that involve the unknowing faithful in grave scandal and sacrilege. Further, even without abuse and sacrilege, the communal, people-centered aspect of the NO service is less reverent since it is less focused on the worship of the Almighty.
8. A little-appreciated aspect of the NO service phenomenon is that it gives the faithful the false impression that the practices of the Church are always up for grabs so-to-speak, subject to criticism for supposed deficiencies,etc. The faithful should keep in mind that these attitudes have been anathematized in the past. So whenever you hear someone denigrating the TLM with harsh and impious words keep in mind that he is likely despising a received and approved rite of the Church and is thus running afoul of an anathema (13 Session 7 Trent). Of course it goes without saying that criticizing the historical rites should be avoided since they are part of the Universal and Ordinary Magisterium of the Church and hence infallible.
9. Another little-appreciated aspect of the NO phenomenon is that it can be argued that it recruits the faithful in an unwitting schismatic enterprise. There was one received and approved Latin rite handed down to Paul VI – not two. He handed down to his successor a new and different rite. As referenced by Mr.V in his video Benedict XVI himself recognized the “two rites” in his decrees. When the manifold changes made in NO service are recognized, how can it honestly be said that NO devotees are not schismatic with respect to untold past generations of faithful Catholics? After all, the mode in which they claim to offer worship to the Almighty has more in common with the practices of protestant heretics than it does with the true Latin rite – how can they not be schismatics? Those who deny this reality should keep in mind the schismatic attitude of many of their contemporaries in the Church who feel free to criticize past generations of Catholics as medieval, superstitious, blindly obedient, etc.
Hello Maria. Thank you for recommending the video of Father Hesse. It is exactly what I needed to hear at this time. Even though Father attempts to make things clear for the laity regarding Vatican II and its consequences, personally this continues to be a time of confusion for me. The papacy of Bergoglio just adds fuel to the fires. We have the guidance of the Holy Spirit, but we also have free will. And too often it seems that our pastors have chosen to ignore the guidance of the Holy Spirit — even as they claim to be following it! Yes, these are very confusing times and the stakes could not be higher — at risk is the salvation of the souls of all the present generations… so called “modern man” as if this were a new species — homo modernus.
Oh, my God, I am heartily sorry–
brethren,
I feel sick, my friends, I feel sick.
“——-In their joint declaration, Pope Francis and Patriarch Bartholomew said it is their duty to work together to protect human dignity and the family and build a just and humane society in which nobody feels excluded. They also stressed the need to safeguard God’s creation and the right of religious freedom. –”
http://www.news.va/en/news/common-declaration-signed-by-pope-francis-and-the
“Therefore, we acknowledge in repentance the wrongful mistreatment of our planet, which is tantamount to sin before the eyes of God.” …. I feel like I just stepped on something soft and mushy… and smells like …feeling nauseous now …
de Maria,
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“…in which nobody feels excluded.” lol Unless you happen to be – what are those strange fellows called? Ah, yes, “promethean neo-pelagians”. And what about those Franciscan weirdos with their attachment to the “fashion” of the Tridentine mass… The FFI right?
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Well, ehem *cough,cough* unless you happen to be any of the above mentioned *weirdos* yes, you need not feel excluded in the one world religión of apostasy in which Francis happens to be the “CONSCIENCE OF THE WORLD” (King of Jordan to Francis)
my dear Edu,
precisely! and,If I may say—-
including, but not limited to, the creed-reciting fully habited religious sisters of the FFI, currently under as you say, ehem,— “visitation,” and who probably will be next to be placed under edict, under the watch of the most humble and “accepting” current occupant of the Chair of Peter.
dear Michael Leon,
hold on, erudite Catholic soldier. When confusion sets in, if I may say, reject it forthrightly with the help of Our Lady, Seat of Wisdom. Remember your sense of humor, and ask St.Theresa of Avila to assist you in that vein. God love you.
dear Cyprian,
don’t stop there, keep writing. What you write is always edifying., like so many here. And if I could “expound” on your thoughts, those who deny that reality to which you point are anencephalic cretans. Objectively speaking, of course.
This issue harkens back to the Pope’s infamous statement regarding homosexuals – “Whom am I to judge?”
Now exactly what was wrong in this statement? Due to poor catechesis it may not be obvious to the faithful who are continually wrongfully taught that they should never judge the sins of another. The sins themselves are always within their power of judgment, that is, that they are, in fact, sins. So what is the problem?
First, Pope Francis’ statement harkens back to the story of the woman caught in adultery. The take-away lesson for most Catholics not caught up in grave sin (e.g., adultery) is that many of them are nonetheless still hardened, unrepentant sinners. Heck, some of them may even be adulterers. Thus, they are hardly in a position to criticize another sinner whose grave sins become public knowledge when they themselves are still unreformed. There is nothing wrong with this aspect of the lesson at first blush.
However, upon further reflection it becomes apparent what the real problem is.
The Pope is casting himself only in the position of those who were preparing to stone the woman caught in adultery. Is it proper for the Pope to adopt the position only of the putative stoners? No, of course not. The proper position that the Pope should adopt is that of Our Lord since, after all, he is the Vicar of Christ on earth.
What would become his solemn obligation then if he adopted his rightful position? He would be obligated to admonish BOTH those Catholics who are like the men who were preparing to stone the woman as hypocritical unrepentant hardened sinners themselves AND Catholics who are like the woman caught in adultery – unrepentant sexual sinners. “Go and sin no more”. He left this part – the hard part – out in an obvious derogation of the duty he owes both to Our Lord and to the faithful.
It has become clear that the Pope will not call sexual sinners – particularly sodomites – to repentance. Hence, all his words about unrepentant sexual sinners not feeling at home in the Church are wicked and mislead the faithful because they give the faithful the false impression that these sexual sins may, in fact, no longer even be sins. Of course that is not true. By giving unrepentant sexual sinners an ephemeral place in the “church” during this life, he very well may be costing them a place in the only Church that really counts – the Church Triumphant. If they follow his implication and don’t repent they surely will be damned and lose their place in the Church Triumphant.
Thus it is our obligation to hector this Pope when he willfully casts aside the cross of Our Lord and seeks only to preach that which is pleasing to the world. No coward, we demand that as Vicar of Christ you defend everything that the Church holds, even those teachings that may result in your martyrdom. If you are unwilling to accept this mantle stop fooling yourself and the lukewarm and abdicate, admitting the obligations of the office are beyond you.
I have shared the above Louie video with my neo-con ‘brethren’. They think you’ve lost touch with reality, Louie. This is the state of Catholics. They simply cannot tolerate the Truth anymore.
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Frankie is constantly casting the pearls of the faith before swine – hence, skankie frankie. I would go so far as to say that he and his ilk, are the spiritual equivalent of king sennacherib, someone who should have us pleading before Our Lord against his evil threats of ‘dissovling Christ’, of destroying the faith in our hearts, of overturning truth with lies. I used, charritably, to be really tolerant of lies, whether my own or others. Then, because I still prayed for Truth, I realised that all I was doing was feeding intolerance of Truth by my tolerance of lies. So, with due prayer and penance, I’ve tried to stop being a useful idiot for Christ’s enemy, the fuhrer of lies. meanwhile as most Catholics think it evil to call Frankie Skankie (a caster of pearls before swine), they continue to applaud his slaughter of the faith and his hell-bent determination to support satan with his dissemination of lies.
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with God, all things are possible. It’s still possible that a Faithful Catholic might one day be able to say, “he who persecuted us in times past, doth now preach the faith which once he impugned.” Galations 1:23 but first frankie would have to convert to the faith.
p.s. the Church is split now. there are Catholics who truly believe that wojltylalya (who could ever spell that name right) and roncalli and even montini really were messengers of the Holy Ghost, upholders of the Truth Faith, stirling catholics – greater than all the other 34 popes out of 36 who were not raised to the altars, and real examples of Christly virtue and really enjoying the company of the Way, the Truth and the Life in heaven, and really people we should established feast days for and pray to rather than say, Pius IX, or XI or XII, or indeed, Cardinal Newman. They also really believe there is nothing amiss with the mass that has invited all kinds of skankyness into the House of God, or skanky priests or skanky catechists and skanky extraordinary minsters promulgating the abominations; and they certainly have no problem with skanky catholics celebrating their skankyness. One things is certain when it comes to intolerance, neo-cons will not have you rain on their perdition-parade, not for all the coke in columbia. speaking of coke, which is what frankie wants to buy the world, here’s an intersting article:
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http://meetingthemets.com/2014/05/25/on-the-road-to-gehenna-with-jorge-abe-and-omar-part-one/
p.s.s. the 36 popes being from the day of Pius V until the death of Pius XII.
p.s.s.s. in fact roncalli and wojlltja, beat out over 80 other popes for all time to the novus ordo altars.
ps..s.s.s.s ‘scuse me, I missed out the 1, that should be roncalli and wojtla beat out over 180 odd popes out of the 200 something there have ever been. ever.
I agree. If we pay honour to Christ’s enemies, we become His enemies.
Dumb-ox,
Thank you for this great reference to Mediator Dei that shows that the modernist errors and thought were around and being pushed long before VII. Let’s not fool ourselves that the Traditional liturgy will be our safeguard against falling into error. After all,these modernists were all brought up with the Traditional Mass.
Knowing and embracing the true Catholic dogmas and doctrines is absolutely necessary and comes first. The traditional Mass done properly supports and doesn’t contradict the Catholic doctrines and dogmas as the NO Mess does, but it will not guaranty that one will embrace or know all the dogmas or
doctrines of the Catholic faith.
A great majority of so called Traditionalists believe that NFP is not sinful and that Humanae Vitae was PaulVI’s crowning glory. Humanae Vitae was one of the worst things to ever happen.It seriously weakened and gave ammunition to support the contraceptive mentality.HV contradicts PiusXI’s Casti Conubii’s teaching that one can never separate the primary purpose of conjugal intercourse of procreation and education of children for God’s glory from it’s secondary purpose of unity. HV opened the floodgates to contraception and gave it’s snaky stamp of approval by saying that one can have recourse to the infertile period exclusively in order to avoid having children. Hey, PaulVI didn’t even bother to include just reasons as an excuse.PiusXII opened the door to NFP and Paul VI opened the floodgates.
The NO is a symptom of a problem at large….The NO is confused with Roman, Protestant, and Eastern Theologies without a focus. While it’s most certainly valid, the deficiencies are so numerous…one would have to be a complete idiot to think the NO and the TLM are the same rite…..SP was a juridical stroke of genius.
Louie may simply be attending the N.O. for the reception of the Eucharist, after all the consecration is valid. However, what is Louie’s opinion on the SSPX’s declaration that you may be exempt from attending an N.O. mass due to it’s Protestantisation, and attending knowingly is a Sin?
“Next time your mother-in-law is over, try talking to a family portrait…”
My [fiercely-Protestant] mother-in-law arrives today for a visit, as a matter of fact and I am going to put this advice into practice! Thank you so much, Louie!
my dear brethren,
Please help me,I’m falling. Say it isn’t so.
Dialogue for whaaaaaat ?
Dialogue leading towards whaaaaat ?
Dialogue with the goal of whaaaaat ?
http://www.news.va/en/news/50-years-on
Dialog itself is the end, my dear Maria.
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As the Council itself says, we [Catholics] dialog so that we can attempt to learn truth from non-Catholics. None of us should ever pretend we *really* have the truth, though.
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That’s a paraphrase, and not a bad one.
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By the way, I was just kidding about mom-in-law.
Just some ideas here:
Dialogue for the creation of an Ecumenical One World Religión.
Dialogue leading to the aforementioned religión.
Dialogue with Satan’s goal of decimating the One True religión, the Mystical Body of Christ, the Roman Catholic Church.
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“And many false prophets shall rise, and shall seduce many. And because iniquity hath abounded, the charity of many shall grow cold. But he that shall persevere to the end, he shall be saved.”
~ Matthew 24:11-13
dialogue is what demons do via useful idiots while they are waiting for satan to score more souls.
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visiting the wailing wall is what popes with rabbi-envy do while demons dialogue via useful idiots while satan scores more souls.
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having a prayer summit in the vatican with people who deny Christ is what popes with false-religion-envy do while demons dialogue via useful idiots while satan scores more souls.
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dialogue is simply a euphemism for the diabolical buying time for scoring souls.
the Novus Ordo Nine Commandments (ten is simply too ye olde and oppressive).
1. thou must worship false gods, preferably in the House of the One True God.
2. thou shalt not take the name of any pope in any way other than adoringly (taking the name of God in vain is fine, so long as it diminishes Christian Triumphalism).
3. thou shalt create a Saturday night Mass so people can work on the Sabbath and still fulfill their Sunday Vatican Donation, and thou shalt loathe the Mass of thy Fathers.
4. thou shalt not honour thy Fathers and Mothers in faith for they are outdated.
5. thou shalt murder lest thou dost become obsessed with not murdering.
6. thou shalt commit adultery.
7. thou shalt steal from capitalists and redistribute to marxists.
8. thou shalt bear false witness against Holy Mother Church, Her teachings, Her entire sacred deposit of faith.
9. thou shalt be free to covet thy neighbours wife who will no doubt not validly be his wife anyway.
9a. thou shalt covet another’s good so long as they are the goods of Christians and capitalists, all the better if they are both.
Imprimatur nihil obstat Frankie the Skankie and his brothers from doing what ever the hell moves them.
I must say the NO nine commandments summarise remarkably well the Vatican II religion.
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If I may add another “commandment” which could probably fit under NO commandment “5” in the category of “spiritual murder”:
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“THOU SHALT NOT, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE, ASK FOR THE CONVERSION OF JEWS, MOHAMEDDANS, OR ANY OTHER HEATHENS AND UNBELIEVERS.”
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Under NO commandment “8” would fit pretty nicely the following additions:
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“Thou shalt falsely proclaim that the Old Covenant with the Jewish people has never been revoked.”
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“Thou shalt falsely proclaim that other religions are pleasing to God and means of salvation.”
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“THOU SHALT FALSELY CLAIM THAT BELIEVERS IN FALSE RELIGIONS AND CATHOLICS WORSHIP THE SAME GOD.”
I knew it was missing something. there could be an 8a and b and c, including also, and thou shalt sacrilegiously mail a prayer in a crack in the wailing wall to the god who doesn’t recognise the only begotten Son of the Living God.
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there should probably be a 6a as well, ‘and thou shalt commit all forms of fornication, outdatedly thought abominable.’
and, if one is a novus ordo pope thou shalt hide the Crucifix in shame in front of Christ deniers so as not to confess Christ in front of them and thereby earning a denial by Christ for the novus ordo pope in front of His Father in Heaven:
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http://www.katholisches.info/2014/05/27/versteckte-papst-franziskus-das-kreuz-vor-grossrabbinen-verneigung-vor-dem-zionismus/
I don’t agree that traditional elements in the Novus Ordo do more harm than good. I can understand where Louie is coming from here, but even though there exists the problem of Catholics being pacified with traditional elements in the Novus Ordo, I think that the benefit of having the traditional elements still outweighs the inherent problems. I’ll try to explain. Take, for example, Gregorian Chant. Now, Pope St. Gregory the Great would not have envisioned something like the Novus Ordo with which his chant would have to one day accompany, but I have to wonder if he would have objected to the Faithful hearing Gregorian chant at such as Mass. Somehow I don’t think he would. The vast majority of Catholics attend the Novus Ordo. Are we to take away one of the few things that serve to lift their minds and hearts to God in an otherwise banal and boring Mass setting such as the Novus Ordo? I think that most Catholics can tell the difference between the NO and the TLM. While there exists the danger that traditional elements will lead to complacency, I think that many will still be drawn to the TLM and it’s great beauty and majesty. The TLM is growing, though slowly. It’s possible, too, that once Catholics are introduced to the traditional elements such as chant, incense, and bells, they will want to have even more traditional elements – they won’t seem foreign or outdated.
To which we might reply, “Inside every ecumaniac there is a Freemason.”
“Father Mitch” also had a wild hair about Father Malachi Martin, which, to me, automatically disqualifies him from having a Catholic audience.
I did not know Louie still frequented the Novus Odor. That is very disappointing. The last time I attended one was a funeral for a friend a year ago. It was so sickening I left when the Canon started, and apologized to my friend’s soul. A year before that I had to attend another one, a funeral for a family member, and I could not get up and leave. The “Rite of Christian Burial” itself was far more disheartening than the departure of my dear family member.
Perhaps the party line siren call, “Stay within the Church,” is too strong for some to respond appropriately.
For a detailed analysis of the internal differences between the TLM and the Novus Odor, go here: http://www.catholictruthscotland.com/mass.html and click on “Read an excellent article.”
So uh, how can the Novus Odor Church raise anyone to the altars, when that Church no longer uses altars?
Now that was downright cheeky.
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I was recently told “When you quote Mortalium Animos you come across as hopelessly out of date. There is a Vatican II Decree on Ecumenism that has far greater authority.” Yes, this is a real quote.
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This is the state of the Church today. Rank & file Catholics literally believe that Church teaching changes – and, especially, that it needs to.
Please check out this quite explosive document by the American Jewish Committee. It is a letter dated November 17, 1961 to Cardinal Augustin Bea, asking for a revision of “Anti-Jewish elements in the Catholic Liturgy”. Attached is a memorandum in the form a study of the “anti-Jewish elements”.
Safe this as a PDF if it ever goes offline.
http://ajcarchives.org/AJC_DATA/Files/6A2.pdf
God bless