If nothing else, Pope Francis is at the very least consistent; ever true to the various tendencies that came to set the foundation for what has already been a papacy of considerable suffering for those Catholics who, by the grace of God, are both aware of, and faithful to, the glorious truths of the Faith as they had been passed down by way of sacred Tradition for some 1900 years.
One of those tendencies is to set up straw men, villainous figments of an active imagination that anyone living amidst the bitter reality of Catholic life such as it truly exists in our day has never encountered.
As reported by Zenit, speaking today before a gathering of some 350 Jesuits in Rome at a Mass of thanksgiving commemorating the Holy Father’s decision to canonize the first Jesuit priest, Peter Faber, the Bishop of the Diocese of Rome said:
… there is a temptation “that maybe many of us experience” of “linking the proclamation of the Gospel with inquisitorial beatings of condemnation. No, the Gospel is preached gently, fraternally , with love.”
Who exactly is he talking about, these “many of us” who are tempted to engage in “inquisitorial beatings of condemnation”? One thing is certain, he sure as heck isn’t talking about his brother Jesuits.
In any event, while the pope is simply remaining true to form in addressing the bad behavior of make-believe bogeymen, I suspect that this particular comment is related in some manner to another of Francis’ more prevalent tendencies; namely, his unbridled hostility toward those traditional Catholics, who unlike himself, consider neither the condemnation of error, nor doctrine for that matter, to be the enemy of evangelization.
Moving on to another favored theme, the Holy Father once again invited his listeners to let go of any childish desire for a Church that provides clarity and assurance, you know, in the manner of a Holy Mother.
He warned that if God, who is a God of surprises, is not at the center, the Society becomes disorientated. “This is why, being a Jesuit is to be a person of incomplete thoughts, open thought,” he said. “[It is] why we always think looking at the horizon which is the glory of God always great, who surprises us relentlessly. And this is the ‘ anxiety of our void. That holy and beautiful restlessness”.
Though this certainly isn’t the first time the pope has thus spoken, it’s anybody’s guess exactly what “surprises” he might have in mind. I suspect, however, that he may be referring to things like God raising up pagan rituals, gifting the unbaptized with the operations of sanctifying grace, and changing the mission of the Church from carrying Christ the Savior into a fallen world to somehow searching for Him in the fallen people of the world.
I must admit, if indeed God is behind these heretofore laughable, and indeed condemnable, propositions (each of which are treated in the 50,000 word document that Cardinal Burke still hasn’t figured out how to describe) I would be surprised as hell!
Alas, however, I am as certain as the countless generations of Catholics who came before me, including St. Peter Faber, that God has no hand in such things, and so my faith remains strong.
Moving on to one last excerpt, His Holiness went on to say:
“Let us remember always: the power of the Church does not live in itself and in its ability to organize, rather it hides itself in the deep waters of God,” the Pope went on. “And these waters agitate our desires and desires expand the heart. Without desires you go nowhere and this is why it is important to offer our desires to the Lord”.
Ah, yes, we must never forget that Pope Leo XIII and those other Roman Pontiffs of a similar triumphalistic kind were wrong, the Church is not a perfect society endowed with everything that she needs in order to carry out the mission that is proper to herself, the salvation of souls. Nor is she to consider herself a beacon of light, the very light of Christ, illuminating a world that is darkened by sin and error; rather, she must hide herself in “the deep waters of God,” (whatever that might mean), where presumably the tide ebbs and flows with an unpredictability that is… wait for it… surprising!
Of course, the phrase “putting out into the deep” comes from the Gospels.
And when he had ceased speaking, he said to Simon, “Put out into the deep and let down your nets for a catch.” And they came and filled both the boats, so that they began to sink. And Jesus said to Simon, “Do not be afraid; henceforth you will be catching men.” (cf Luke 5:4-10)
Needless to say, the Church has always understood “catching men” as a metaphor for converting the world to Christ and His Holy Catholic Church. At present, however, all indications appear to be that Peter’s successor seems more inclined to desire a Church that does little more than sleep with the fishes.
Wow!! Unbelievable. There is something to be said for keeping it simple. If he spoke as if he were in a Pre-K classroom would any of what he says sound like SOMETHING?
Such hogwash. The Pope certainly (in all his intellect as a Jesuit) must be able to see that he trips on his own words. Thanks be to God that I recently came across this blogger site. Mainstream media only goes to the Vatican to get a picture with the Pope whereas he asks them to “please, pray for me”.
Speaking of “consistency”, I cannot get past this trumpet blast against the logical principle of non-contradiction:
1) “Mary also experienced the martyrdom of the Cross: the martyrdom of her heart, the martyrdom of her soul. She lived her Son’s Passion to the depths of her soul. She was fully united to him in his death“.
Pope Francis, Homily, Solemnity of the Assumption, Castel Gandolfo, 2013.
2) “She was silent, but in her heart, how many things told the Lord! ‘You, that day, this and the other that we read, you had told me that he would be great, you had told me that you would have given him the throne of David, his forefather, that he would have reigned forever and now I see him there!’ Our Lady was human! And perhaps she even had the desire to say: ‘Lies! I was deceived!’“
Pope Francis, Homily as reported by Vatican Radio, Casa Santa Marta, December 20, 2013.
Dumb_ox, Thank you for your comment. I wonder is the thought process that labile or is it deliberate? Because, truly, how do go from the first statement to the second in such a short time?
If the CEO/President of PepsiCola consistently made statements that CocaCola, Royal Cola and all other colas are just as good as Pepsi in taste or to quench your thirst— while at the same time mocks previous CEOs who stood by the superiority of their product—-he would and should be fired without hesitation. Maybe the Catholic Church could learn something from the corporate world. The sad fact is that Pope Francis is not a true spokesman for Catholicism. We need to pray for his conversion.
Dear Mr. V. The very sad truth is that what Our Holy Father said is easily capable of being understood as an expression of orthodoxy but your mind has closed on the lie that he is a modernist heretic and so you will continue to judge him, mock him, and lead others into subscribing to your hatred.
May God have mercy on your soul for he who eats the Pope dies a miserable beast.
O, just for the information of others (I am sure you know that old axiom, Mr. V), that is an axiom from Catholic Tradition.
In other words; There is no dogma or doctrine we should hold as the truth as given by God to the Church. Rather we should keep looking into the future to see how “truth” evolves. Perhaps even God evolves? Surprises, indeed.
http://www.catholicbook.com/AgredaCD/MyCatholicFaith/mcfc073.htm
Dear Not Spatacus:
What we hate is error. We pity Francis.
And pray for his conversion to the one True Faith.
St. Michael Archangel, ora pro nobis.
Dear I AM NOT S,
quick question for you: what could possibly – in your erudite opinion – motivate anybody, especially someone endowed with teaching authority (and carrying the burden of responsibility that comes with it), to choose a convoluted and at best ambiguous way of expressing himself, while leaving the task of interpretation to anyone who happens to have an internet connection? Why would one prefer such an approach to “Let your yes be yes, and your no be no”?
…..from Saint Augustine on Psalm 88
“Let us love the Lord our God, let us love His Church; love Him as a Father, and Her as a Mother. Let no one say, ‘Yes, I still visit the idols; and consult spiritualist and sorcerers; but despite this I will not leave the Church of God, I am Catholic.’ You are remaining attached to your Mother, but you offend your Father. Another will say, ‘God forbid: I do not consult sorcerers, nor question the spiritualists, I never practice sacrilegious divinations, nor adore demons nor gods of stone, but I belong to the Donatists.’ Though you do not offend the Father, will He not avenge the Mother you insult? What avail is it to confess the Lord, to honor God, and praise Him, to recognize His Son, and proclaim that He is seated at the right hand of God if you blaspheme His Church? If you had a protector to whom you fulfilled your daily duties, and if you then came to accuse his spouse in some grave matter, do you believe you would still be welcome in his house?Therefore, my beloved, hold firm to God your Father, and to the Church, your Mother.”
Arise All Soldiers of Christ, defend your Father and your Mother……until death!
May I suggest to all that it is well worth while to read the article just published in the Remnant on-line “Was Mary Tempted to Doubt God” which addresses the Pope’s recent bizarre and profoundly troubling statement that Mary was tempted to call Almighty God a ‘Liar’ at the foot of the Cross.
http://remnantnewspaper.com/web/index.php/articles/item/121-was-mary-tempted-to-doubt-god
Further to my recommendation of The Remnant article (above) there is an equally instructive critique “Lies! I Was Cheated” — Pope Francis’ Daring Statement About Mary” linked to the Eponymous Flower at:
http://eponymousflower.blogspot.ie/2013/12/lies-i-was-cheated-pope-francis-daring.html
@Spartacus:
You posted, “The very sad truth is that what Our Holy Father said is easily capable of being understood as an expression of orthodoxy…”
Now then.
If this so, then why would Francis’ words possessing the easy capability of comprehension within the confines of Catholic orthodoxy be a “very sad truth?”
Should they not be so? Do you regret his clear presentation of the Faith?
Also.
Just HOW are his words so easily comprehended? Precisely.
Please do enlighten us. Even a further hint would suffice!
Only, use simple phrases with easy words – simpler and easier than Francis, obviously!
For, as you are apt to reveal with great aplomb, Mr. V’s cognitive abilities and thought processes are not quite up to speed with your own.
No doubt that is why your blog so outshines his, yet you are constantly
compelled to take time away from quaffing your nectar and ambrosia, as well as settling disputes among the feathered creation, and descend to settle the score with the little five-foot-nothing upstart.
Mr. Bergoglio is preparing the masses to disregard the importance of the doctrines of the Catholic Church. He is cultivating attitudes which will enable the present masonic distorters to finish the job the distorters of Vatican 11 brought to bud. Bergoglio exalts being a person of ‘incomplete thought’ and keeps things ambiguous for a definite reason. What a master manipulator we have in Rome. He will develop this same line of non thought again and again.
Dear I Am Not Spartacus,
I have been struggling mightily in order to hear our Pope with an ear of orthodoxy. I am lacking in God’s grace for I have not the faith you seem to have to be able to do so. “Sin, even for those who have no faith, is when one goes against their conscience,” is what Pope Francis has taught. My conscience tells me that much of what he says is incompatible with what I have been taught to be the Catholic faith. There is a great war going on in my soul, a war that did not exist before Francis was elected. Either the faith I was taught was wrong in March and I was in error then, or the things I am hearing from Francis are wrong and he is in error now. Please: DO NOT try to tell me they are reconcilable or I will laugh you off as one who has surrendered his reason (faith does not require us to surrender reason). Tell me how I can be faithful to Pope Francis while he continues to say things contrary to Tradition. Thank you.
“gifting the unbaptized with the operations of sanctifying grace, and changing the mission of the Church from carrying Christ the Savior into a fallen world to somehow searching for Him in the fallen people of the world.”
–
This seems to be exactly what he teaches. It’s not new. My parish priest has used the spoonful-of-orthodoxy-makes-the-anti-christ-bollocks-go-down with regular audacity. It’s simply lies lies lies, served up with a bit of salty Truth. It’s an evil way of relating. Does Pope not so Frank know it’s evil and is having evil results?
–
He still might have a vision of sack-cloth and ashes, for once on his own head. Otherwise, I think he’ll resign and let Volpi take the keys to where no pope has ever gone before.
p.s. basically what Barbara said.
thanks for the remnant link bosco.
“Don’t deceive yourself. It’s not right.” Um, that was Mr Duck, unfortunately not the prime protector of souls formerly know as the mysti-aken formerly known as Cardinal Bergoglio. This Pope seems unable to hear Christ through all his weepy sympathy for the devil. Mr Pope, the devil don’t care.
Dear joannesromanus. It is who he is and the way he expresses himself is a long ingrained habit, at least that is what I have been given to understand. He is not a young man and so to expect him to act differently is to set one’s self up for constant consternation.
He is who he is and he has a surfeit of charism and charm and he ought be loved and succored for no society can survive in a state of constant internecine warfare
Very true, Saluto.
I have felt from the beginning of this nightmare that this present Bishop of Rome’s outstanding vice (much like Alexander VI or Leo X or Julius II) is his prodigious pride. Pride straight through. In fact, he’s too damned proud too lower himself to the exalted responsibilities of the Papacy, which he should have rejected if he has a such a disdainful view of the authority which it entails.
Yet it is also much like the pride of a spoiled child or egotistical adolescent. “I want world peace and justice for everyone, damn it! You all out there have to give it to me! I want it, I want it, I want it!!”
He also places the world simplistically into two camps, the mysterious mob of “the poor,” and everybody else.
Speaking for the poor, of which I and my family are, I feel rather abandoned.
I mean, we’re pretty poor. But what did he have to say to us this Christmas, for example?
Nothing. Too busy giving all his attention to all those “unjust” people with means who aren’t doing things the way HE thinks they should.
Thanks, Papa.
His false humility sickens me. The Church and all her riches and traditions are ours. They’re the only wealth we poor will possess in this world (for I know we will have so much more and ever enduring spiritual treasure in Heaven, for Our Lord has promised it), yet he would rob us even of this.
Besides, doesn’t he know that greed and envy are two of the biggest sins of us poor?
Pope Francis, I don’t want equity all around nor a bigger slice of the pie. I need a little assistance now and then, for charity’s sake (whereby the rich can save their souls), and to be able to enjoy the wealth of the Church as it has been amassed for centuries, and which is my Catholic patrimony and birthright, given by the true Pater pauperum et Dator munerum.
But you’re busy making the world, which is fallen and will NEVER be able to be repaired except by Our Lord Jesus Christ, into a little Pope Francis dream cottage.
Why do you insist on plucking from us “the one thing that matters?”
Dear Leo : You posted, “The very sad truth is that what Our Holy Father said is easily capable of being understood as an expression of orthodoxy…”
Now then.
If this so, then why would Francis’ words possessing the easy capability of comprehension within the confines of Catholic orthodoxy be a “very sad truth?”
I could have written that a lot clearer, couldn’t have I? By very sad truth, I was intending to point out to Mr. V. that what Our Holy Father said was orthodox and that it did not have to be attacked in the way that Mr. V. did.
The attack is very sad for Mr. V. is obviously possessed of a sharp intellect and he is very persuasive and he will strengthen the refusal to obey the Pope by those already disposed to do so and he will likely convince those on the fence that the sspx grass is greener and he will draw sheep out of the fold.
As for my Crummy Blog, it is just a fun thing for me to do and I would do it whether or not anybody read it
Thank you Leo. You might be poor, but you are very rich.
May God bless you and all you love!
Keep the Faith!
Spartacus, Spartacus……..you just never rest. You are having too much fun……
My advise to you is;
………… GO INTO THE DESERT with the Book of Psalms!
Spartacus, it’s OK, dude.
I, uh, kinda understood what you were communicating.
You’re not entirely fluent in sarcasm, are you?
I’ll use the level one text with next time, should the need arise.
Good luck with the blogging.
I guess everyone needs a hobby, what? I don’t think there’s enough people blogging out there.
O how the world would change if only more people blogged.
Perhaps Pope Francis should encourage this.
Just in case The Eponymous Flower blog is not on your daily must read list, after (Mundabor and Harvest :)), the latest musings from our bishop of Rome, to the General Curia of the Union of Superiors General (USG) and I paraphrase:
“JUST SAY NO …TO THE NOVICE TRADE”
Just in case you don’t know what this sound bite refers to (which is the case for most Catholics), here is the background. It has been observed that there is a pretty active movement of “novices” between religious orders, from those religious orders that are degenerating due to there adherence to the heresy of modernism to those that are ‘re-orientating themselves”, or rather reverting back to the True Faith as Our Lord gave to the Apostles and handed down through Tradition. Keep this in mind, and you will understand the context of the following quote by the bishop of Rome:
“You have to form the heart, otherwise we will make little monsters. And then, these little monsters form the people of God. That gives me the creeps,”
Yes my dear Faithful, according to Bergoglio, there are religious orders out there that create “little monsters” which give his Humbleness “the creeps”. Wonder which ones he was thinking of? Wonder if this is not the thought process that is responsible for the attempted destruction of the FI?
Like I said in an earlier post, this man is a few chords shy of a full tune. He desparately needs our prayers.
St. Dymphna, ora pro nobis!
Link:http://eponymousflower.blogspot.com/2014/01/pope-francis-to-order-no-to-novice.html
@S.Armaticus:
Thanks for this. “Forming little monsters,” that’s rich! A little more insight into the heart of this pastor of souls, I guess.
Maybe he should just ask for the cooperation of these little monsters in forming a world brotherhood respectful of diversity. That way, they would be effectively catharized, and find their niche in the Big Peace scenario.
@Halina:
Thank you for your gracious words. I sort of regret my flying off the handle in such a manner. We are actually very happy and blessed, and do not suffer want, for God has always been good.
My future son-in-law, who is Polish and grew up at the end of the Soviet era, tells me tales of hardships far beyond what we have had to endure, believe me.
We became good friends before he started courting my daughter, and now he
has returned his traditional Polish Catholic faith, Deo gratias.
It’s a good exchange. He gets a nice wife, and we get an unhealthy diet.
Na razie.
Dear Leo, with father in-law like you…….this marriage will be a match made in Heaven! May you be blessed with many grandchildren of God!
To understand the evil of Nazi Regime, Bolshevism, Communism, you had to live in Poland and in Russia.
In blindness of the good, the evil thrives. Poland is no exception……they are very attracted to Modernism of Europe. Traditional Catholics are not many, and even the few are persecuted by the JPII generation. I was there last summer for almost 2 months………I was told by a very nice lady in an antique shop that I am very brave to wear ‘out’ my crucifix and the miraculous medal. At first I was shocked, but half way thru my stay, I understood, why. She also whispered to me, that she has not one friend that she could speak freely about her Catholic Faith, about Tradition. Divine Mercy, has replaced devotions to Sacred Heart.
You go to a huge Diocesan book store…..all you see is pictures of the conciliar Popes, all their writings ONLY. As if the these popes had no predecessors, as if the Church is only 50 years old. You ask for encyclicals of the pre-Vatican II Popes…..and they look at you, as if you have fallen from another planet. They choose to be ignorant, they want to know nothing about warnings against Modernism, and all else, because Karol Wojtyła is the best pope that ever walked this earth……..Francis is right behind him. When I was growing up in Communist Poland……the Catholic Church was the only Church. Today, you have every stripe…….this is what Pope Wojtyła has left them. My dear friend who is a traditional Catholic is penalized for it in most unjust ways……even as far as her health-care.
Z Bogiem! Niech będzie pochwalony Jezus Chrystus!
Oh my, that is a naughty photo Mr. V. ! LOL!
s.armacus:
So why is the commissar of the FI sending the seminarians all over the place if there is not to be a ‘novice trade’? But there is a supernatural aspect to what is happening to these men consecrated to the Immaculate and may I please suggest visits to this website and also prayers for the Order to hold strong in the midst of persecution: http://pray4thefriars.wordpress.com/
And this is the seminary that the commissar closed: http://stim.immacolata.com/about-us/friars2.html
Here you will see joy, prayer, discipline, penance, and a strong sacramental life which does not seem to be wanted any more in Orders and the whole world is the worse for it.
Oops, here is the home page: http://stim.immacolata.com/
I was so impressed to read of the lives of the seminarians which is presently not allowed.
Funny, one ‘accusation’ against the holy founder, Fr. Stefano Manelli, was that he was ‘too authoritarian’ ; so what does all this punishment and suppression look like if not over the top ‘too authoritarian’?
The discipline and prayer life was appealing to many holy vocations.
Wow, Halina, this is fascinating. We must talk somewhere outside this comment section – its not fair to Mr. V.
You would probably like my future son-in-law Koniezcny.
His experience was that of a kid before and during the fall in ’89-’91 (I’m about 18 years than him, and he ten years older than my daughter).
He’s savvy and smart, and very talented with wealth management. He’s definitely not marrying into this family for the money. It’s GOT to be love.
Anyway, he’s spoken of the situation you describe in precisely the same terms.
He’s let me know about the goings on in Galacia with the fraternity of St. Josaphat; was kept Catholic enough by his grandmother; is steeped in respect and reverence for Our Lady of Czestokowa; and can drink beer like water and water like beer.
He has an innte and healthy Polish distrust of the Jews, but in the process of leading him into reform and back more deeply into the true Faith, I’ve been
unable to modify his deep negative opinions about Germans and Ukrainians (whom he seems to despise more than Russians. He was, of course, educated to speak Russian, as was mandatory, apparently, so he helps me with my hand me down Russian.)
Anyway, this is really interesting. I don’t know any other native Pole than him.
He’s teaching my daughter Polish along the way.
Cześć.
Canon Francis Ripley, in This is the Faith, wrote on p. 62:
Venial sin is an offense which does not kill the soul, yet which displeases God and often leads to mortal sin. Examples of venial sin are sins of infirmity, surprise, impetuosity, indeliberation or habit, in a small matter.
“The anxiety of our void.” ??? First, we are not given a spirit of fear but of power, love and a sound mind. (2 Tim 1:7) Second, maybe the “anxiety” of that void of yours is the lack of the indwelling of the HS due to the perverted, narcissistic and heretical lives the Jesuits lead. “Open to thought”? Scripture tells us to guard our hearts and minds…bringing each thought captive to Christ. How are the dogmas and doctrines and beautiful certainties gifted to us by Christ going to cause disorientation? They are the peace, fortitude, and wisdom that helps us live, grow and thrive. May the Lord have mercy on this lost Pope. And to speak against a heretical Pope puts us with the saints. God bless~
@I am not Spartacus:
“He is who he is and he has a surfeit of charism and charm and he ought be loved and succored for no society can survive in a state of constant internecine warfare”
## That’s exactly why Franky needs to resign ASAP, and quit confusing the Church. The Church does not exist for the Popes – they are supposed to serve the Church, not play at being Emperor Palpatine. This is the CC – not Star Wars.
Dear Leo. You were the only one who knew you were writing sarcasm; so, at least your keen wit did not go unappreciated by both of us.
Blogging is an form of artistic expression for me and art is the signature of man (Chesterton) and one does not have a huge ( or even any) audience to engage in art…Oops, I think I ought to end right here because I am a dude who does not know if you are being sarcastic or not.
Pope Benedict XV, less than one hundred years ago (But, such Traditional Truth has been dropped down the Angelus Memory Hole in service to the schism:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
There remains one matter which must not be passed over in silence, and that is, to remind the priests of the whole world, as Our most dear sons, how absolutely necessary it is, for their own salvation, and for the fruitfulness of their sacred ministry, that they should be most closely united with their Bishop and most loyal to him. The spirit of insubordination and independence, so characteristic of our times, has, as We deplored above, not entirely spared the ministers of the Sanctuary. It is not rare for pastors of the Church to find sorrow and contradiction where they had a right to look for comfort and help. Let those who have so unfortunately failed in their duty, recall to their minds again and again, that the authority of those whom “the Holy Spirit hath placed as Bishops to rule the Church of God” (Acts xx. 28) is a divine authority. Let them remember that if, as we have seen, those who resist any legitimate authority, resist God, much more impiously do they act who refuse to obey the Bishop, whom God has consecrated with a special character by the exercise of His power. “Since charity,” wrote St. Ignatius Martyr, “doth not suffer me to be silent concerning you, therefore was I forward to exhort you, that you run in harmony with the mind of God: for Jesus Christ also, our inseparable life, is the mind of the Father, even as the bishops that are settled in the farthest parts of the earth are in the mind of Jesus Christ. So then it becometh you to run in harmony with the mind of the bishop” (Ep. ad Ephes. iii.). These words of the illustrious Martyr are re-echoed throughout the ages by the Fathers and Doctors of the Church.
29. Moreover, bishops have a very heavy burden in consequence of the difficulties of the times; and heavier still is their anxiety for the salvation of the flock committed to their care: “For they watch as being to render an account of your souls” (Heb. xiii. 17). Are not, then, they to be termed cruel who, by the refusal of the obedience which is due, increase that burden and its bitterness? “For this is not expedient for you” (Heb. xiii. 17), the Apostle would say to them, and that, because “the Church is a people united to its bishop, a flock which adheres to its pastor” (St. Cyprian: Ep. 66 [al. 69]), whence it follows that he is not with the Church who is not with the bishop.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
PFFFT, what did he know? He prolly wasn’t even really a Pope after all
Canon Ripley:
The canons of the councils prove that the bishops had supreme authority in their own cities. A person had to obey his bishop if he wished to remain in the Church; disobedience meant expulsion. The bishops themselves, of course, had to obey the rulings of the Church. One of the canons of the Council of Ephesus, for example, reads like this: ‘Similarly concerning all those who shall attempt to undo in any way any decision of this holy council of Ephesus, the holy council decides that if they be bishops or clerics, they are to be expelled from their ranks (deposed); if laity, excommunicated. All such decrees prove beyond doubt that the early Church was a well-organised society, strongly knit together by obedience to one authority….I hope that now you know what sort of a Church Christ’s is; therefore, what sort of Church you must look for. It is the constitution of the Church that matters. Too much time is spent on bandying texts and arguing about scandals in history. God’s Church is human as well as divine; Christ told us in advance that scandals would come. He chose St Peter, who had denied him, to be the first Pope in preference to St John, the beloved, to emphasise that we must always distinguish between the man and the office or, in other words, between the constitution of the Church and the men who make up the Church.
The short cut to the true following of Christ is to find out what kind of Church His is. We have described it in these pages. In the world today only one Church, the Catholic Church, with its centre in Rome, fills the bill. The crucial question is that of authority. We have seen it at every stage of the Church’s history-in the Councils, in the Fathers, in the Acts and the Epistles, in the Gospels, where it was conferred by Christ himself. That same authority is in the world to-day vested in the Catholic Bishops who are the successors of the Apostles under the leadership of the Pope, who is the successor of St Peter. In a nutshell the final answer is what you say to the question: Where on earth is Peter?
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Authority….. PFFFT Big Deal. That was all BS (Before the Sacred Schism) and those Traditional Truths have since been dropped down the Angelus Memory Hole.
There is a new schismatic sheriff in town and he is looking to gun-down them obedient wimps and slackers.
I am for last 54 years an active believer in the catholic church and lived and inspired under 6 popes .John xx111 who opened the Vatican 11 did not receive such hostile criticism from American conservative catholics . May be freedom of speech was not commonly expressed as today/ Francis does not come from Euro-Centered church, but from global missionary church . Europe is increasingly becoming Islamic . The pope does not believe in Colonialism and Crusades to spread the message of the gospel, rather inter-faith dialogue ,works of Charity and Christian witness not martyrdom . Those days are over that we make self-righteous teaching orders around the world and expect everyone to follow Roman culture and legalism . Because of our American involvement in in the Middleeast we lost most Christians there, either they are killed or gone as refugees . The growth and enthusiastic Cath.Faith seems to be active out side the Euro-Centered world .The pope recognizes it .If the American conservative catholics want to go for an American Catholic Church under cad. Burke and some like-minded bishops, go for it . we have power, influence and money . Why beat up the pope ?Lets do something positive for our Faith and keep our global influence in all aspects of life. If we can sign up 10 percent of catholics ,it will make a big difference . Most modern catholics do not observe Sunday obligations, they are cultural catholics and make a bad name to say only 30 percent attend church on Sundays .If you can form a church of your belief you will have 100 percent church attendance, By the way make all priests monsignors of 14 grades of 13the century church. I love to see it, and I may even attend your schismatic church, after all the sacraments dispence same old grace .
Hope its a fair comment
Spartacus,
You are a muse of discretion on what would otherwise be a very heated playground.
Not to mention a wealth of and timely information.
Please do continue to dazzle us with your logic, and the needed intervention of your pertinent little offerings and quips.
I, for one, cannot now imagine my faith without them. Really.
You only serve to strengthen it.
Dear I am not:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normalcy_bias
Dear Leo: Wish you could speak Polish, then you would really understand what the Jews are doing there. How they are more and more bold to demand their rights, as if Poland was already theirs. Only God Knows, for all we know they might have more power than I can imagine. John Paul II was the best Pope the Jews ever had.
As I was growing up in Poland, right after the war, the propaganda was that All Jews were killed. In a Communist Poland they had such privileges as working in the ‘media’ like radio, TV, cinema, in our Universities, in the government, doctors, lawyers, dentists, accountants, privately owned bakeries, leather goods, jewelry, textiles, banks…….while the Polish people could not own anything, unless, by inheritance such as a house, or apartment, never mind owning a business. While the borders were closed Karol Wojtyła amongst some, had the privilege of coming and going from Poland. How did the Jews get their supplies is another mystery. Thank God no mystery to God!
My both sides of the family (mother, father) with their families were in Germany working camps……the older children (youth) were in different camp from their mothers. My mothers two oldest sons were taken by the evil Bolsheviks (about 70% Jews) to Siberia for 25 years. My grandmother saw her sons last time as young men 19, 21……and the next time when the youngest one was 68. My own mother saw her mother last time as she was 16 years old, and the next time as she was close to 50. NOT BY CHOICE!
If, anybody is interested about ‘truth’ regarding these times, one of the books I keep highly recommending is “Fatima in Twilight”……..by Mark Fellows. Volumes have been written, and so many are still ignorant. You want to know about the problems in the Church, hit the root with the ax. You got to go back more than 50 years…….We are exactly where the enemy was persistently in patience persevering…….
The blind will always doubt, while evil reigns. Ave Maria!
Leo, please give your daughter’s fiancée this excellent Catholic (traditional) blog………tell him to have a beer, he probably never heard about many of these evils, lies, propaganda, while he was growing up in Poland……let him fasten his seatbelt.
http://forumdlazycia.wordpress.com
Wish you were my neighbour…….I live in Florida.
In spite of the ignorance of the conciliar Popes, we still pray (SSPX)…..I hear gnashing of teeth……:
….Be Thou King of all those who are still involved in the darkness of idolatry and Islamism and refuse not to draw them all into the light and kingdom of God. Turn Thine eyes of mercy toward the children of that race, once Thy chosen people. Of old they called down upon themselves the blood of the Saviour, may it now descend upon them, a laver of remption and of life……
jp: Francis from a global missionary Church? You are kidding, no?
He watched Catholics by the tens of millions leave the Church for Protestant sects –while he spent precious time lighting menorahs with Jewish Rabbis.
And, of course, Francis the Talking Pope has told us that even atheists who really, Really, REALLY believe in their atheism are going to heaven. So what’s the purpose of missionaries?
Global missionary Church????
My question to the conciliar church is:
……Can you say with a sincere heart, that you handed down what you received? Can you look at our Lord and say you truly as a Bishop, transmitted the faith as you received it?
“Those who are inside can be really out; those who are outside, really in.”–St. Augustine
If you want to understand what’s happening to our Lord’s Church, you should start with praying the rosary and listening to His words. Our Lord has been reaching out to us fervently to warn us of these times.
In recent times, He’s done so with messages given to 4 young seers at a small Garabandal village (from 1961-1965).
http://www.garabandal.com/about-garabandal/the-messages
He then gave us from 1986 to 2003 this wonderful Love Hymn in the messages of TLIG (True Life In God).
http://www.tlig.org
And now, starting just recently in 2010, He’s continuing to give us messages.
http://www.TheWarningSecondComing.com
Please read them and see if you recognize our Lord’s voice!
Everything we’re seeing is being prophesied but so few are listening.
See this message exactly one year to-the-day before pope Benedict announced his “retirement”.
http://www.thewarningsecondcoming.com/my-poor-holy-vicar-pope-benedict-xvi-will-be-ousted-from-the-holy-see-in-rome/
See this message from Feb. 17, 2013
http://www.thewarningsecondcoming.com/the-false-prophet-will-now-take-over-the-seat-in-rome/
This is not fear mongering, the messages are filled with love. This is our Lord Jesus who is desperately trying to reach out to more of His children with this special gift.
Blessings,
Marc
Halina,
I read “Fatima in Twilight” a couple of years ago. Rushed through it, and really wasn’t paying close attention (a bedtime book). I actually still own it.
I also remember it was extensively researched and highly detailed in its presentation. It was, perhaps, too much for me – at the time, at least – but I have always thought of returning to it. Your recommendation is the impetus I needed to do so. Thanks.
Thanks also so much for the Polish website. I’ve just looked at it and it looks beautifully presented. I will certainly pass this on to Kuba when I see him tomorrow for our usual Sunday meal. May this also serve as an impetus to learn more Polish from my future son-in-law Kuba (Jakub’s nickname).
Thanks again so, so much. Also for all the great and informative comments you make here and which I never fail to read.
I deeply appreciate your hopefulness.
God bless you and take care (next time hope to give you real Polish sign-off)!
Halina,
Actually, I’d say that yes, Frank-istein is passing on the “faith” that he probably received at the seminary during the hippie sixties by Jesuit revolutionaries, i.e. modernism. In that respect he’s no doubt being faithful to his seminary mentors. But whether he’s passing on the faith as handed down by the blessed apostles is an entirely different matter.
“‘This is why, being a Jesuit is to be a person of incomplete thoughts, open thought,” he said.”
In normal times, Jesuits were known for their complete and rational thoughts, as well as their sound logic and superb educational skills.
“‘[It is] why we always think looking at the horizon which is the glory of God always great, who surprises us relentlessly.'”
What are the “surprises” that we must look for with “open thought”? Certainly, not new doctrines for that would be heresy. Does anyone know what the “surprises” are?
“And this is the ‘ anxiety of our void. That holy and beautiful restlessness.'”
The only “anxiety” and “restlessness” that Jesuits have traditionally felt was for the salvation of those outside the Church whose eternal destiny was in peril. It was an anxiety and restlessness that came not from a void, but from the fullness of grace and truth possessed in Christ’s Catholic Church that motivated them to go to the ends of the earth with the message of the Gospel.
I Am Not Spartacus,
Aren’t you the same guy who posted and applied to Pope Francis (back in October on this blog) an excerpt from Psalm 108, regarding the apostate disciple Judas? I recall you also wrote a lot of ultra-traditionalist comments on this blog and routinely called the Mass of Paul VI the “lil licit liturgy” and encouraged Catholics to avoid it (and their local Novus Ordo parish) in order to keep their soul from being corroded in acid.
I don’t think you are the person to be counseling anyone on ecclesial obedience.
@jp :By the way make all priests monsignors of 14 grades of 13the century church. I love to see it, and I may even attend your schismatic church, after all the sacraments dispence same old grace .
not quite sure what you mean by this, but Fr Frank has just abolished the title of monsignor. gotta keep up with the speedy gonzfrankenzest.
http://www.creativeminorityreport.com/2014/01/pope-abolishes-monsignor-title.html
p.s. maybe the title monsignor gives him the creeps as well. wonder what else is hiding in his, ‘creepy things to get rid of’ private, for Frankie’s eyes only catechism?
I’ll bet the “biblical Jesus” gives Bergoglio the creeps likewise. That might be the reason why he and the modernists are trying to “re-create Him in their own image”
But since we are on the subject of creeps, there is what gives me the creeps:
http://mundabor.wordpress.com/2014/01/03/dont-cry-for-cardinal-bagnasco/
A sin of omission, in the least.
One other thing that His Humbleness said at the Superiors-General meeting.
http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2014/01/my-mothers-female-fiancee-doesnt-like.html.
Thank God that he is a “son of the Church”, or we’d all be in a whole world of sh**.
BTW. This is the same guy who “mused” that children living in same sex partnerships could be considered child abuse.
Now that is what I call evolution.
just goggled your links s.armaticus.
scandalising the faithful IS the new evangelisation. it all makes sense – don’t tell the world it is spiritually evil and perveted and woefully fallen from grace, just encourage that poison into the temple to infect the faithful.
with shepherds like this who needs wolves?
‘penance, penance, penance’ cried the angle. this poor sausage of a male should have been made to sink into the shame of his sins, rebuked, and made to a public me a culpa because his sin is a very public scandal. but no, love the sin more than sinner is the new evangelisation watchwords.
Dear Observer. Yes. I think I wrote all of those words, and many many others. And all of those words were wrong and I repudiate them. I am a bit like the reformed drunkard who arrives at the Keg party, aren’t i?
I am not Sparticus:
God bless. in these times of disintegration it’s many of us are clinging on to the papal lynch pin, even if he’s a grouchy old dodgy Jesuit who seems to hate Catholics, Rome and maybe even the truth.
” …It is true that while at the moment we find we can’t live with the bishops, we know, too, that by God’s design we can’t live without them, and that there is only so much we can do. But have we done even that much? Have we prayed and fasted and done penance and really begged God on our knees to convert the hearts and minds of the bishops? Have we consistently pleaded with Him to take the hirelings who will not respond to His grace to their early reward, and send us real Catholic Shepherds in their stead?
… Christ Himself told us, in the parable of the unjust judge, that we should pray continually and never be discouraged [Lk 18 1:8]. … Our Lord told the people: “will not God give redress to his elect, when they are crying out to him, day and night? Will he not be impatient with their wrongs? I tell you, he will give them redress with all speed.” And then Christ immediately adds…, “But ah, when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith left on earth?”
And so…are we really praying for the conversion of the hirelings or their replacement by strong, solicitous, Catholic Shepherds – as if we believe? Given Christ’s promise, I can’t imagine that enough of us are.”
Wow, even a so-called orthodox or traditional catholic as yourself is unwilling to listen or share God’s special words for these times.
When the warning comes (prophesied by St. Faustina & Garabandal), I’ll remain hopeful that people as yourself will finally start listening & stop blocking God’s words for humanity.
http://www.TheWarningSecondComing.com
God bless,
Marc
Halina said:
“My question to the conciliar church is:
……Can you say with a sincere heart, that you handed down what you received? Can you look at our Lord and say you truly as a Bishop, transmitted the faith as you received it?
“Those who are inside can be really out; those who are outside, really in.”–St. Augustine” ”
This is so pertinent – I know being a revert in 2009 there seemed a massive gulf between what the post conciliar popes and bishops preached compared to the tone and rigor of scripture. It was a very confusing couple of years trying to reconcile things until I discovered the old Mass, trad writings, Bishop Lefebvre’s writings and the “Fatimists”.
Halina
Read E Michael Jones at culturewars.com The Jewish Revolutionary Spirit and its Impact on World History. A classic.
Dear saluto. Jesus established His Church. He did not establish a nebulous entity named Tradition. Now, to be sure, Tradition is part and parcel of His Church but it does not exist as Catholic Tradition apart from the Unity which is a distinguishing mark of His Church.
There is One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church. There is not a Vatican Two Church or a Church of Trent or a Church of Florence or the Church of Nicea or the petit ecclesia of tradition of the sspx schism.
It makes no sense for a man to claim that Mgr Lefebvre preserved anything by breaking Communion and he and his followers refuse to be in Communion with their local Bishop and their Pope yet they constantly brag that what they do is Tradition.
It is no such thing and every single Early Church Father has condemned what they have done and they can not point to any Early Church Father or any Saint or any Ecclesiastical Tradition or any Papa Encyclical Encyclical or any Papal Allocution nor can they identify any canon or decree from even one Ecumenical Council that permits (to say nothing of even counsels) a schism for any reason – especially for the insane “reason” of “preserving Tradition” for a schism is the exact antithesis of Catholic Tradition.
All of the insanity. evil, and enmity is on the part of the sspx schism while His Church remains per the promises of Jesus Christ.
The plain and simple fact is the SSPX and those who succor it have lost their Faith.
Paul thanks.
This is one of the books that is on my list……highly recommended.
Keep the Faith!
Spartacus, you sound like a broken record……get a grip of yourself.
Buy yourself bunch of exotic birds, and talk to them. They will for sure listen to you, and I guarantee you, they will not argue with you. You will be very pleased, because, they will just keep chirping regardless what you say…..they won’t care!.
In Jesus Christ Our King and Mary Our Queen,
Halina
Halina. If my simple repetition of the truth (Repetitio est mater studiorum) was not beginning to pierce your ideology, you’d not find it so irksome.
Ideological cracks, once formed, can lead to a total collapse of the walls of denials you have imprisoned yourself in.
The truth will set you free. And Jesus is the Truth and He established His Church and made several infallible indefectible promises that you must begin to believe in once again
“All of the insanity. evil, and enmity is on the part of the sspx schism while His Church remains per the promises of Jesus Christ.”
Regardless of what one thinks of the SSPX, it can hardly be called a participation in even 1% of the insanity, evil, and enmity in either the Catholic Church or the world. The SSPX is small and ignored by most people. Most Catholics do not know its doctrinal positions or even that it exists. And those who do know of it, have no relation to it and thus its impact is limited to the small and zealous group of believers who participate in its work. It is a group that is effectively quarantined from the faithful of the Catholic Church and is thus rightly not a concern of most Catholics.
On the other hand, for the conservative and traditional Catholic, the insanity, evil, and enmity that exists in the Catholic Church is the sole practical province of those who exist in full communion with the Roman Pontiff. From the sexual abuse crisis, radical liturgical abuse, heretical catechesis, post-Christian religious, the abandonment of missionary activity, and the general creation of a new and strange Church that bears little to no resemblance to Catholicism before the 1960s, the scandals that disturb the hearts of conservative and traditional Catholics are uniquely perpetrated by those who comfortably exist in the bosom of Holy Mother Church and are held in paternal affection by the Vicar of Christ.
For this reason, it is odd indeed that the SSPX would be singled out as a source of concern for these same conservatives and traditionalists since, even by their own religious understanding, their real enemies are their brothers in full communion with Rome.
You are NOT:
Now, I am convinced that even the ‘birds’ would rebel against you…..
The REAL Catholicism of the SSPX is the only reminder of what Catholics have LOST, that forces the Conciliar Church to act occasionally like the Catholic Church……
Viva Cristo Rey!
It’s beginning. Cancellation of 14 year tradition:
First Saturday LTM Mass abolished at Santa Maria Maggiore.
http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2014/01/important-signs-of-times-after-14-years.html
It’s going to be a long cold winter I am afraid.
Dear Not Sparticus said: nebulous entity named Tradition. Have to roundly disagree. The Church for the first four hundred years was nothing but handed Tradition and it is out of this vouchsafed Tradition that we got things like the bible, the long hard won history of the Church, Pope’s indeed, and the presence of the Holy Ghost who, as far as I can tell, does nothing fly-by-night, but works with the Faithful the fruitful vines of Tradition. To my mind there can be nothing more anti-Christ than to eschew Tradition. In my opinion it is catholic-local-custom-culture as encouraged after VII that is killing so many One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic parishes, precisely because they have turned their backs on that safe haven, Tradition. God established a Tradition for Israel, which brought forth the Immaculate Conception – who was able to bear into the world the Word Made Flesh. This reminder no longer exists at the end of the new mass. The more the Bishops turn their back on Tradition, the smaller the True Church will become. It’s that simple – do this in memory of Me, said the Lord. What is the Church’s tradition if not sacred memory? The concilliar Church in most parishes is simply a Sunday cracker get together. It viscerally obvious that neither priest nor the parade of lay ‘ministers’ (an oxymoron), nor the kindergarten-afying of the sanctuary and most aspects of worship, have done away with worship and any belief in the prescious body blood soul and divinity, before us. the aspect of sacrifice is so well hidden, the priest sits in and presides, peering at the pew fillers. It is anti-tradition and it is only someone with an awareness of tradition who can actually acknowledge our Lord. The homilies are all about the world and being nice in the world, as if people don’t as matter of course ‘be nice’. The action of salvation, the mission of salvation is lost on the post-concilliar church. No Tradition, no Church. It’s that simple.
S.Armaticus: After 14 years, First Saturday TLM abolished at Santa Maria Maggiore, Rome.
Read it and weep. Not Sparticus – the masons understand how to kill the Church, we should at least be as wise. Yes the Remnant will remain, and I for one am determined to be part of it.
[1] ‘There is One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church.’
The SSPX affirm that.
[2] ‘There is not a Vatican Two Church or a Church of Trent or a Church of Florence or the Church of Nicea or the petit ecclesia of tradition’
The SSPX do not argue the exclusivity of Ecclesiastical Ecumenical Councils, the SSPX acknowledge parts of Vatican II that act in continuity with the Tradition of the Holy Catholic Church, but are aggressive on those factors that are novelties and have been condemned by prior Popes within the 20th century and prior.
[3] ‘sspx schism.’
SSPX is not Schismatic, it acknowledges and prays for the intentions of the Holy Father Pope Francis. Furthermore, SSPX in comparison to the Orthodox, do not deny the authority of the Pope. Former Pontiff His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI saw no schismatic attitude in the SSPX. At most, it’s disobedience.
Supporting reference:
[a] “The act of consecrating a bishop (without the pope’s permission)is not itself a schismatic act,” Cardinal Lara, President of the Pontifical Commission for the Authentic Interpretation of Canon Law, in La Repubblica, October 7, 1988 in relation to condition 4 concerning canon law.
[b] “It cannot be said in correct, exact, and precise terms that there is a schism. There is a schismatic attitude in the fact of consecrating bishops without pontifical mandate. They are within the Church. There is only the fact that a full, more perfect communion is lacking – as was stated during the meeting with Bishop Fellay – a fuller communion, because communion does exist.” – Cardinal Hoyos, (TV Channel 5 in Italy) on November 13, 2005.
[c] “From the examination of the case… it did not result that the facts referred to in the above-mentioned decree, are formal schismatic acts in the strict sense, as they do not constitute the offense of schism; and therefore the Congregation holds that the decree of May 1, 1991, lacks foundation and hence validity. (June 28, 1993)” – Cardinal Ratzinger, Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.
[4] ‘nor can they identify any canon’
Yes, they can and they have:
Canon Law 1983:
Can. 1323 The following are not subject to a penalty when they have violated a law or precept: 4/ a person who acted coerced by grave fear, even if only relatively grave, or due to necessity or grave inconvenience unless the act is intrinsically evil or tends to the harm of souls. Likewise canon 1324, §3; §1, 70, 80 argue in their favour.
[5] ‘The plain and simple fact is the SSPX and those who succor it have lost their Faith.’
You are then presented with a paradox:
[a] SSPX are not Catholic, Vatican II era/Post Vatican II era is truly Catholic.
[b] SSPX are Catholic, Vatican II era/Post Vatican II era is not Catholic.
[c] SSPX are not Catholic, Vatican II era/Post Vatican era II is not Catholic.
[d] SSPX are Catholic, Vatican II era/Post Vatican era II is Catholic.
To which to say the SSPX is not Catholic is to say prior to Vatican II era were not Catholic. To say the SSPX is Catholic places a contrast to Vatican II era/Post Vatican II era to which the law of non-contradiction must take place.
The SSPX acknowledges the Pope as the Holy Father, the Successor of Saint Peter.
And that is the conclusion drawn from observing the SSPX issues.
Speaking of Churches……the saint to be JPII……very rarely used the name of Roman Catholic Church. He called the church of Vatican II, the conciliar church, the new advent church….to name just few. The SSPX is a faithful child of the holy Church……regardless who likes it or not. Our twisted opinions have no grounds what so-ever when it comes to the Church of Jesus Christ. The faithful Catholics understood this simple truth. Even the conciliar church knows it and trembles……..
Do we follow the ‘homo’, ‘the Jews, ‘the Muhammads, ‘the Communist’ advocates, or do we stay in the One Holy Catholic Church! Over and over we are reminded from the Word of God, that ONLY REMNANT will persevere in TRUTH. The Catholic Church is not for cowards, for lukewarm……..Our Lord warned us…..’if you are neither hot, nor cold, but lukewarm, I will spit you out of my mouth like a vomit’….every word of Our Lord is SACRED…….not to be interpreted to your own liking……..only soldiers of Christ will make it thru the narrow gate. There’s NO UNIVERSAL SALVATION, this is an anathema proclaimed by every Council, prior to ‘jelly fish’ Council of Nice………
If, I put only a drop of poison in my drink…….I am dead. This is the fruit of the poison that has seeped thru the cracks. This is why today is almost hard to know who is who. Is this a Catholic Mass, or is it the Circus in town. I know, they are all around me. So, I run as heck from them…….unless I want to loose my soul……God Forbid! Thank God Our Father in Heaven is All Knowing, He Sees, He Hears……..All is in His Hands. Praised Be Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ!
The ‘root’ of ‘The Decree on Ecumenism of the V II, which gives different understanding of the Church…..as if speaking of different churches…..simply easily interpreted by twisted minds that there are other churches………as if the Catholic Church was not the only Church of Jesus Christ!…….This notion in the plural was never used before the Council.
We have the evil innovators, conspirators, corrupters of the Second Vatican Council to thank for endorsing the new meaning of this expression, saying:
…..IT FOLLOWS that these separated Churches and Communities, though we believe they suffer from defects already mentioned (Protestant denominations or the schismatic Orthodox churches), have by no means been deprived of significance and importance in the mystery of salvation. For the Spirit of Christ has NOT refrained from using them as a means of salvation which derive their efficacy from the very fullness of grace and truth entrusted to the Catholic Church.
Once it was forced on the lukewarm, ignorant or worse yet, fearful, silent, who became an accomplice in these crimes committed against faithful Catholics, that these other denominations also have a significance, an importance towards salvation, it is clear that Catholics are invited to collaborate with them, and eventually to pray together with their members. This is exactly what the Council says:
……THEY…..the faithful and followers of other denominations also come together for common prayer where this is permitted…..
…..In a certain special circumstances, such as in prayer services ‘for unity’ and during ecumenical gatherings, it allowable, indeed desirable, that Catholics should join in prayer with their separated brethren. Such prayers in common are certainly a very effective means of petitioning for the grace of unity, and they are genuine expression of the ties which even now bind Catholics to their separated brethren……… The spirit of indifferentism has penetrated thru the Universal Church like a plague everywhere to the utmost parts, to the smallest villages in the world…….that what up to pre-Vatican II was rejected as idols we must adore and worship, and that those who shed their blood for the faith were a little bit insane……MISERERE, DOMINE!
How else does anybody dare to explain the ‘exodus’ from the Holy Church? Who can count the loss of souls……..by millions…….
How anybody can deny that your family members, your neighbors are not Protestant Catholics? Or what have you……….Jesus Christ the Son of God, the Second Person of the Most Holy Trinity…….was born 2000 years ago, HE IS ALIVE! HE IS THE BREAD THAT CAME DOWN FROM HEAVEN! THE LAMB OF GOD WHO TAKES THE SINS OF THE WORLD!…………..even Satan knows that, and trembles…….
May God give us the grace to ‘keep the faith’……..
‘Dum Spiramus Tuebimur”……’While We Breathe We Shall Defend’!
“The plain and simple fact is the SSPX and those who succor it have lost their Faith.”
This is clearly overreaching. Regardless of what one thinks of the SSPX, they have held resolutely to the faith that was professed and lived by the Roman Catholic Church before the Second Vatican Council. In fact, it was their dogged refusal to make any alterations to either Faith or discipline that led to their current status. To accuse the SSPX and its adherents of “losing their Faith” is to undermine their reason for existence.
Some may argue that the SSPX is in schism. However, as is clear from the SSPX’s profession of faith in the dogmas of Vatican I, they lack no faith in the papal office, itself. Thus, if one must oppose the SSPX, he or she must not accuse the SSPX of a “lack of faith,” but rather a “lack of charity,” that has refused to preserve the unity of God’s house in the bond of peace. Let us remember – a lack of faith leads to heresy, a lack of charity leads to schism, just as a lack of hope leads to both. To confuse these distinctions leads to unfair generalizations that does little to further the virtue of truth.
SSPX Observer and Halina well written. No doubt now is the time more than ever we need fight from the SSPX. Francis’ intentions have been made very clear with various appointments made thus far everything else is hogwash. Cardinal Wuerl = OUch, Very Ouch.
Latest on rorate is Socci questioning the pope with the FI disaster. He makes the point that if it was some liberal “Catholics” getting purged for heretical practices it would be all over the media however since the FI are bona fide Catholics there will pretty much be silence. The elderly Padre Manelli under house arrest, the great persecution of trad priests and religious that Lefebvre documented in his time under Paul VI has come back with vengeance under the watch of the “humble” Papa Pancho.
An earlier comment cited a quote from the Second Vatican Council’s Decree on Ecumenism, which permitted limited occasions of “common prayer” with heretics and schismatics in the Roman Catholic Church. This is especially interesting since another commentator cited the example of the ancient canons of the ecumenical councils as a reason to condemn those who currently withhold traditional Catholic fidelity to the Roman Pontiff due to the belief that he is not integrally faithful to the immemorial Tradition of the Church. It is fascinating to see these two comments juxtaposed together. Do not those who reference these canons of the first millennium Church know that this same ancient canonical tradition deposed clerics who prayed with heretics and schismatics? These clerics were deposed, because according to the canonical discipline of the ancient Catholic Church, the act of “common prayer” was, itself, a violation of the unity of the Church that resulted in excommunication of those who engaged in such practices. It is, indeed, fantastic to observe that those who adhere to the Second Vatican Council so resolutely that they demand the same fidelity of others at the risk of ecclesial schism, will also invoke the ancient canonical tradition against their opponents – a tradition which ironically would not only permit these opponent’s refusal to accept the Second Vatican Council and obey post-conciliar Roman Pontiffs, but would necessitate it.
Pani Halinko,
Pozdrowienia from beautiful Vancouver BC Canada
Links to Wojciech Kilar, Polish Composer
Both compositions will take your breath away!!
Angelus:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ISaMSWIc0k
Ziemia Obiecana ( The Promised Land ):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dwz8tKmHg0k
Tadeusz
Who can unfairly persecuted trad priests and religious report to in Rome to have their grievances heard? Who is responsible for upholding SP?
Obeserver said: “It is, indeed, fantastic to observe that those who adhere to the Second Vatican Council so resolutely that they demand the same fidelity of others at the risk of ecclesial schism, will also invoke the ancient canonical tradition against their opponents – a tradition which ironically would not only permit these opponent’s refusal to accept the Second Vatican Council and obey post-conciliar Roman Pontiffs, but would necessitate it.”
It is fantastic, indeed!
I would also add, diabolical.
Not Spartacus: In the spirit of “Repetitio est mater studiorum” and “what is good for the is good for me”, we are still waiting for your answer to Jimmy’s question, namely:
“If a Pope commanded a priest to rape a child, the priest would sin by refusing to obey that Papal command, correct ? He would be obliged to obey the Pope and rape the child, would he ? By your reasoning, the answer is apparently “Yes” to both questions.
The question is a serious one, not a trap or joke.
Jimmy December 30, 2013 8:00 am
The question was directed to I am not Spartacus”
And your answer is?
In place of my Sunday rant, I bring you Mundabor:
Enjoy, the contrast is delicioso!
http://mundabor.wordpress.com/2014/01/05/little-monsters-and-gaga-friars/
PS As one of Polish ancestry, it is with a “lowered head in shame” that I watched these Polish Dominicans. The Polish Church used to be smarter than that. But the “Francis effect” is all consuming.
http://www.christianorder.com/editorials.html
A long but very enlightening essay on the “errors of Russia” by one of the most trenchant traditional publications in the UK. Read some of the articles online, or better, sign up. America Wake-up!
I have a question:
Does the Holy Father ever speak of Jesus; you know that Name above all names? Does he speak much about the Mother of God?
I am not hearing those things mentioned, are you?
I wonder if IANS is struggling to hold onto his own faith, or secretly hoping to be convinced that the Pope is indeed a modernist. Spending any amount of time here would either bring one to the truth of the Church’s condition or serve as a metaphorical hair shirt to those who hold to IANS’s position that the Pope is orthodox.
To admit the Pope is a modernist will not destroy one’s faith. It simply confirms an obvious truth and allows one to adhere more closely to Holy Mother Church, and to pray for her. It will also cure one of papolatry.
well said, Thistle.
not sparticus, there have been scandalous popes, antipopes – otherwise Benedict XVI, would have been Benedict XV; we all know Our Lord rebuked the satanic inclinations of our first pope, who the went on to deny the Truth thrice. then St Paul had a word or two… like the seven Churches of the Apocalypse, the ‘movements’, of the first Pope I guess might be somewhat prophetic of the office throughout time. for 70 years or so the legitimate popes had, under the pressure of the, mmhmm, franks, otherwise know as French, relocated to Avignon. this move resulted in the late 14th century in a papal ‘schism’…but the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church laboured on, even if over this dodgy time it was the humble priest and his flock that kept the Rock.
unlike our Jesuit HF, I don’t think doubt and insecurity are particularly healthy once one has been won by Truth. therefore, as a Faithful Catholic, I’d rather defer to the 200 and something other Popes who weren’t slaves of the make over, than this one.
Freemasonry speaks of “order out of chaos”. Could it be that this has been the plan of the infiltrators all along? They can now come heroically in a sweeping fashion to bring “order” for the masses of confused people. God is the God of today, yesterday and tomorrow and is still in control of HIS Church. Be not fearful of what is to come but be prepared, to guard yourselves and keep to the truth. GOD’s wrath is coming. Christ is the King! Totus Tuus.
The SSPX deny the Universal Jurisdiction and they have no Jurisdiction and, thus no Ministry. They deny Vatican One’s infallible teaching re the Primacy of the Pope.
I have done my level best even while knowing that the ideology of schism is nearly identical with a psychotic delusion – neither are correctable by facts and appeals to reason.
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And if he will not hear them: tell the church. And if he will not hear the church, let him be to thee as the heathen and publican. Amen I say to you, whatsoever you shall bind upon earth, shall be bound also in heaven; and whatsoever you shall loose upon earth, shall be loosed also in heaven
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I will end by noting that the subtext of what Mr. V. is in umbrage over is that the Pope is a dope, evil, modernistic, heretical, etc etc etc and, thus, Mr. V, is under no obligation to obey him; and that is the essence of the reason for being of the sspx schism: both claim orthodoxy by being faithful to Tradition (as though Jesus did not establish His Church but some nebulous entity named, Tradition, to which each man could remain faithful – although such Tradition does not have similar properties and attributes as does the Catholic Church He established.
All of which is to write that y’all think that Jesus is either a liar or ignorant. THere is simply no other explanation to account for what y’all believe – that His promises failed which is why Mr. V. and the SSPX can not explain how an ontological impossibility – The Catholic Church teaching error – came to be.
Mr V and the SSPX have supplanted the Holy See with Mons Lefevbre’s petit ecclesia despite the Catholic Tradition that ONLY the Apostolic See of Rome has been promised perpetual indefectibility.
That is, it is you who have lost the Faith, not The Holy See for Jesus promised that would never happen.
As to all the other questions addressed to the Holy See and all of the complaints made about the Holy See, they are all answerable in Faith by The Holy See its own self – What? You think the sspx schism has authority?
O, yes, I forgot; you do.
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But even if the Pope were Satan, you would STILL be required to obey him. Put that in your prideful pipes and smoke it
Wherefore we teach and declare that,
by divine ordinance,
the Roman church possesses a pre-eminence of ordinary power over every other church, and that
this jurisdictional power of the Roman pontiff is both
episcopal and
immediate.
Both clergy and faithful,
of whatever rite and dignity,
both singly and collectively,
are bound to submit to this power by the duty of hierarchical subordination and true obedience, and this
not only in matters concerning faith and morals,
but also in those which regard the discipline and government of the church throughout
Not Spartacus said:
“But even if the Pope were Satan, you would STILL be required to obey him. Put that in your prideful pipes and smoke it.”
Thanks for an answer.
Popalotry, clericalist and protestant, wrapped into one. Actually, even the Dawkins Disciples would recognize it. A do it yourself religion, a la Luther, Cranmer, Rahner, Congar, von Balthazar and the rest of the heretics.
In the least, we now know where you stand, and it ain’t Catholic.
Dear S. Armaticus. You walked right into that one, ace.
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If a pope is foreknown as damned and is evil, and is therefore a limb of the devil, he does not have authority over the faithful given to him by anyone, except perhaps by the emperor
was a proposition of Wyclif which was condemned at the Council of Constance
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Dear A Armaticus. You are a loyal son of the SSPX schism and they have well-taught you error
Look, Catholics are not members of the North Korean Army. We don’t have to mindlessly accept the continuing stream of upsetting comments and absurd rhetorical straw men Francis keeps putting out there, in defiance of all our common experience and sense over the last 50 years. In more than 40 years I’ve yet to encounter any priest struggling with a temptation to advance the gospel with “beatings,” or whatever the heck he said. If anything, it is precisely the opposite that is the case, as we all well know: sin is not talked about, confession hardly talked about (a little more in the recent past), penance is not talked about, and we’re all told that we’re pretty much all OK.
Further, we are the “People of God,” according to his cherished Vatican II, and he needs to listen to us as well.
Francis himself said that he welcomed criticism. Like Peter, he is not beyond correction.
Adios my once (and future, I hope) amigos. There are no rational arguments to be made against the Promises of Christ.
Either Jesus is believable or He isn’t.
Repent and convert while you still have time.
IANS, I have mainly brushed aside your nearly interminable messages because you were just as prolific a year ago in the other direction, of which you say you have repented, or some such. You seem to forget the Bishop of Rome is not THE Catholic Church; it is a 2000 year old living Church and we are obligated to obedience to the doctrines of all of those years. If Pope Francis tells me to do anything that is sinful, I will refuse. This does not mean that I don’t think he is the Pope. ( I know he is, and it seems unfortunate at this stage of his reign.) And I will happily continue attending the SSPX Masses where I have raised my sons, and where my grandchildren have been baptised. I’m hoping they have a better chance of keeping the Faith, or at least knowing it….
…..Spartacus, put on your ‘gorilla’ mask, it really suits your mind, and character perfectly, you couldn’t make a better choice, you are actually a genius……….
Farewell then………
Not Spartacus: Like The Observer posted:
“[5] ‘The plain and simple fact is the SSPX and those who succor it have lost their Faith.’
You are then presented with a paradox:
[a] SSPX are not Catholic, Vatican II era/Post Vatican II era is truly Catholic.
[b] SSPX are Catholic, Vatican II era/Post Vatican II era is not Catholic.
[c] SSPX are not Catholic, Vatican II era/Post Vatican era II is not Catholic.
[d] SSPX are Catholic, Vatican II era/Post Vatican era II is Catholic.
To which to say the SSPX is not Catholic is to say prior to Vatican II era were not Catholic. To say the SSPX is Catholic places a contrast to Vatican II era/Post Vatican II era to which the law of non-contradiction must take place.
The SSPX acknowledges the Pope as the Holy Father, the Successor of Saint Peter.
And that is the conclusion drawn from observing the SSPX issues.”
Same conclusion as I have drawn, and I could not have said it better myself.
Now that we kind of have a rough idea of what papal authority should entail, I bring you Mundabor’s take on the bishop of Rome’s latest “open mouth, insert foot”.
Take it away Mundabor:
“Add a sprinkle of mercy, a lot of pauperism and some (strong) smell of Favela, and you have Pope Francis’ Pontificate explained.
Luigi Tenco practised what he preached and, in a bout of worse than usual self-centred infantilism, committed suicide because he was not happy with the jury and the population at large for his treatment in a famous televised song contest.
No, seriously: he killed himself for that. But hey, “ognuno e’ libero…”.
Poor idiot.
Had he entered a Jesuit seminary instead, by now he could have been Pope.”
The operative word is “infantilism”. The basis of modernism, liberalism and Peronism. (Just threw the last one into the mix for effect). Sums up the bishop of Rome to a T.
God have mercy on his soul.
Here’s the link the the above.
http://mundabor.wordpress.com/2014/01/06/the-pope-the-friars-and-the-singer/
Actually it was Jon Hus – Denziger 646 – not Wycliffe.
Ta-Ta
‘The SSPX deny the Universal Jurisdiction and they have no Jurisdiction and, thus no Ministry. They deny Vatican One’s infallible teaching re the Primacy of the Pope.’
No, they do not. The SSPX fully acknowledge the Primacy of the Pope.
‘this jurisdictional power of the Roman pontiff is both
episcopal and
immediate.
Both clergy and faithful,
of whatever rite and dignity,
both singly and collectively,
are bound to submit to this power by the duty of hierarchical subordination and true obedience, ‘
Former Pontiff His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI has ruled that the SSPX is not schismatic, yet you defy the Pontiff’s ruling. Submit to that ruling.
The presence of “I Am Not Spartacus” (IANS) on this blog must be examined. IANS posts on several different traditional Catholic blogs as well as operating a blog of his own. From my observations of this person over the course of several years, I have noticed that he gravitates from radical Catholic traditionalist rhetoric, which rises above what I have heard even from hardened sedevacantists, to an unfettered obedience to the current Roman Pontiff that attacks the SSPX, in particular. This same change of mentality was exhibited on the blog “Rorate Caeli” in late 2012 and has been exhibited again on this blog. While all people are entitled to a change in perspective and must be respected when this occurs, it strains both respect and serious interaction with a person when these changes happen repeatedly. When these changes in perspective happen repeatedly, it becomes clear that the person in question is someone who is experiencing a crisis in faith and someone with whom we should not engage in debate until he or she shows stability in their beliefs and mentality. To do otherwise is to engage in useless debates that will only spread to others the confusion and tension that exist in the soul of the interlocutor in question.
BRAVO Observer!…you have hit it exactly!
Thank you, Observer. And prayers for all of us, including IANS.
IANS,
“But even if the Pope were Satan, you would STILL be required to obey him. Put that in your prideful pipes and smoke it”
Would you obey Satan over Christ our Lord?
I hope and pray that you were not serious about that.
Think about it. Firstly, there is the issue that “Satan” obviously cannot be the pope since he is not a member of the Church (do I really have to make such an obvious statement?). All the theologians I have read say unanimously that whoever is not a member of the Church cannot be the head of the body which is the church (eg St Robert Bellarmine and countless others). Secondly, when the “false prophet” (described in the book of revelation 13:11) comes it is held by various pious sources and authors that he might be an anti-pope masquerading as a true pope (see “The book of destiny by Fr Kramer, with imprimatur). Would you obey this “pope” then, the false prophet of anti-christ?
I pray that at least you will get your priorities correct, that one must serve God and not Satan in order to be saved!
**************************************
“For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect.” Matthew 24:24
IANS,
My last comment: Nobody is saying that the pope cannot be a wicked man, and indeed there have been wicked popes in the past (Alexander VI probably being the most infamous example). What is at stake here is not the virtue or sinfulness of a particular pope, but of his adherence to the sacred deposit of the faith. Your quote from Denzinger is better understood together with a quote from “Mystici Corporis Christi” (Pope Pius XII, 1943):
“For not every sin, however grave it may be, is such as of its own nature to sever a man from the Body of the Church, as does schism or heresy or apostasy.”
PRIDE is the most dangerous of sins, because it blinds our understanding, and unless something finally makes us realize the ‘truth’, we are liable to go on, day after day, in a spiritual self-delusion, imagining our acts to be good and virtuous when certain habits actually may be vicious.
When we are blinded by pride, we do not consider our talents and abilities as God’s gifts to us, but attribute our good qualities to ourselves with the right to use them as we see fit.
Delusions in regard to our own defects, self-conceit, attributing to ourselves our good qualities of mind, of person or of fortune…….rather than to God, reveal pride of intellect. Sins against Faith arise from this pride.
We may have a ‘pride of spiritual vanity’, imagining ourselves to be perfect and our acts always virtuous or finding a thousand reasons to diminish their gravity or excuse our faults when we do acknowledge them.
“Be sober and watch: because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, goeth about seeking whom he may devour. Whom resist ye, strong in faith: knowing that the affliction falls your brethren who are in the world. But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory in Christ Jesus, after you have suffered a litt, will himself perfect you, and confirm you, and establish you. TO HIM BE GLORY AND EMPIRE FOR EVER AND EVER. AMEN” —-1 Peter 5:8-11
Spartacus, I for one will miss you (although you and I both know you ain’t goin’ nowhere. You’re enjoying yourself too much here.)
Your comments and observances were always so brilliant and timely.
You helped to keep us all in the fold, God love ya.
Bye.