A priest looking for advice on how to advance the Church in a fast-paced world so often embroiled in conflict recently approached a well-placed cleric who had been a religious order priest and bishop for many years.
In response, the bishop answered, in part, by sharing the following true story:
A priest went as a missionary to an area where for years they had no priest, and evangelicals had arrived. He told me that he went to a woman who had been the teacher of the people and then the principle of the village school.
This lady sat him down and began to insult him forcefully saying, “You abandoned us, left us alone, and I, who in need of God’s Word, had to go to Protestant worship and I became Protestant.”
This young priest, who is meek, who is one who prays, when the woman finished her discourse, said, “Madam, just one word: forgiveness. Forgive us, forgive us. We abandoned the flock.”
The tone of the woman changed. However, she remained Protestant and the priest did not go into the argument of which was the true religion. In that moment, you could not do this. In the end, the lady began to smile and said, “Father, would you like some coffee?”
“Yes, let’s have a coffee,” he replied.
Afterwards, when the priest was about to leave, she said, “Stop here, Father. Come.”
And she led him into the bedroom, opened the closet and there was the image of Our Lady.
“You should know that I never abandoned her. I hid her because of the pastor, but she’s in the home,” the lady said.
It is a story which teaches how proximity, meekness brought about this woman’s reconciliation with the Church, because she felt abandoned by the Church.
And I asked a question of this priest that you should never ask, “And then, how did things turn out? How did things finish?”
But the priest corrected me, saying, “Oh, no, I did not ask anything; she continues to go to Protestant worship, but you can see that she is a woman who prays. She faces the Lord Jesus.” And it did not go beyond that. He did not invite her to return to the Catholic Church.
What is one to make of this “advice” and the bishop giving it? Three things can be said with certainty:
1) This bishop has a very twisted understanding of what it means to be reconciled with the Church. In his mind, a woman who hides her supposed devotion to the Blessed Virgin Mary for fear of rebuke from a heretic “pastor,” and who is steadfast in “worshiping” in a heretical community, has undergone a “reconciliation with the Church” presumably because she set her anger aside long enough to have a cup of coffee with a Catholic priest.
2) This bishop has a deficient understanding of the Church’s mission. His inquisitor has been given to believe that priestly work is well done apart from inviting heretics to return to the Catholic Church and the sacraments. He furthermore has been given to believe that he can determine on his own that one outside the Church, with no possibility of being absolved from his or her sins “faces the Lord,” the presumption being that such a person is fine where they are; outside of the solitary Ark of Salvation.
3) This bishop is the current Bishop of Rome; a pope who has demonstrated time and time again an appalling lack of concern for even the most basic duties of his exalted office.
The story above was shared by Pope Francis during a Q&A session with the priests of Caserta that took place on July 26th; it’s just one of a number of things said that day by a Roman Pontiff whose prolific public discourse so often betrays his indifference to the Catholic faith. You may read the exchange in its fullness on the Vatican News website linked above, but be forewarned, it is a gut wrenching experience.
Clearly, the priests of Caserta would have done far better to email their questions to just about any commenter on this blog. (Small compliment, I know.)
It’s all of a piece. Pope Francis is nothing if not consistent – particularly with his terrible tenure in Buenos Aires. And still, the bishops, priests, Catholic Media, etc. defy all reason, logic and truth to pretend there is no major problem with this papacy! Blessed Michael, the Archangel, defend us in battle, be our safeguard against the wickedness and snares of the Devil . . .
Bergoglio happens to be sitting in the Chair of Peter, but that doesn’t mean he is truly Catholic. We should not expect anything Catholic coming from this papacy. This poor unfortunate woman should have been told to take the image of Our Lady out and pray the rosary every day. Our Lady always leads Her children to Her Son.
The Pope’s initial statement at the beginning of the question-and-answer period should forever settle the issue as to whether or not he is media-savvy. His immediate thought upon realizing his blunder: “What would tomorrow’s headlines read?” And how does he view his blundering of his obligation to the Catholics of Caserta? As a rope around his neck.
…
I wonder if Traettino made a donation of 30 pieces of silver to the ecumenical fund….
According to CNA bergoglio actually preached at a protestant service — or is there a diffence between an “ecumenical celebration” and a protestant worship service? Please enlighten me if I am wrong. Here is the quote:
http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/pope-francis-visits-with-evangelicals-in-southern-italy-70102/
“Pope Francis spoke at the conclusion of an ecumenical celebration, in which some 350 persons took part. The celebration included three testimonials of faith, a musical performance, and addresses by both Traettino and Pope Francis.”
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In fact bergoglio was having so much fun with his “protestant friends” that he had to cancel a scheduled visit to some local nuns. No time for nuns!
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“He was expected to visit the convent of nuns of Falciano, a Caserta suburb. The convent is home to five nuns who work with children, and a small crowd was waiting to see him in front of the enclosure.
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But as his lunch with evangelicals lasted longer than expected, Pope Francis did not have time to visit the consecrated religious of Falciano.”
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I guess the crowd wasn’t big enough to make it worth his while…. papal priorities you know…. or maybe they seemed just a bit to traditional…. could be crypto-lefebvrists you know…. wouldn’t want to be seen encouraging anything like that…. not with the upcoming “synod on sex”…. what? they are virgins? not even lesbians? for-get-about-it…. I’m out of here… get me back to Casa Santa Marta… I’m getting hungry again…. some crippled kids…. yeah, yeah that sounds like a photo-op….
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“Once the meal ended, he had time to meet two disabled children before returning to the Vatican.”
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Is it time to start throwing rotten cabbages? I think it is.
Dear Louie and friends in Christ, A bit of encouragement for us all 🙂
Jesus speaks to His Church in the time of persecution (Revelations):
… hear what the Spirit saith to the churches: .. Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer. Be thou faithful until death: and I will give thee the crown of life…. I know where thou dwellest, where the seat of Satan is: and thou holdest fast My name, and hast not denied My faith. .
..I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them that are evil, and thou hast tried them, who say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars: And thou hast patience, and hast endured for my name, and hast not fainted. But I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first charity. …do penance, and do the first works. Or else I come to thee, and will move thy candlestick out of its place… But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaites, which I also hate.
Behold, I come quickly: hold fast that which thou hast, that no man take thy crown. He that shall overcome, I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God; and he shall go out no more; and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God, and my new name. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith to the churches.
Behold, I have given before thee a door opened, which no man can shut: because thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name. Behold, I will bring of the synagogue of Satan, who say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie. Behold, I will make them to come and adore before thy feet. And they shall know that I have loved thee. Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I will also keep thee from the hour of the temptation, which shall come upon the whole world to try them that dwell upon the earth. ….To him, that overcometh, I will give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the paradise of my God..
____ Deo Gratias
This over at the EF blog:
http://eponymousflower.blogspot.com/2014/07/pope-asks-for-pentecostals-forgiveness.html
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Money quote:
“It is “a temptation to say: I am the Church, you are the sect. Jesus prayed for unity. The Holy Spirit creates diversity in the Church. He makes the differences. But then Holy Spirit makes the same unity and the church is one in diversity. A diversity reconciled through the Holy Spirit,” said Pope Francis according to Lettera43.”
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If I understand Francis correctly, heresy and schism are the work of the Holy Spirit.
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But the Holy Spirit only “diversifies” the sects, but does not “diversify” the Catholics, a la SSPX, FFI or the diocese of Ciudad del Este.
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Therefore, the Holy Spirit only “diversifies” those which Francis likes, but not those that Francis dislikes.
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So it would appear that Francis not only has a personal relationship with Jesus, but also with the Holy Spirit.
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Francis truly resides in a different dimension with respect to both space and time.
Dissolving Christ and His Church is the only reason folks like Bergoglio and the C8 and a whole swathe of neo-pagan-nazi-pseudo-ministers get up in the morning. That’s their mission; send Catholicism to a concetration camp and hope it starves to death. They’ve been pretty effective broadly speaking, in no small part due to a multitude of Catholics too lazy to know their faith. Bergoglio is sort of the pseudo-Catholic equivalent of the Boko Haram. He’s an anti-Christian creep of the first degree and anyone with a brain knows it.
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Meanwhile Iraq and the world is liquidating Christians and Bergoglio, and by and large every big name ‘catholic’, is silent. But then one of Bergoglio’s insults against those of the Faith was calling them ‘liquid Christians’. I think it was mistranslated. What he really wanted to say was, ‘liquidate Christians!’
It defies logic and the clear teaching of the Church to give the impression that those who are not Catholic are members of the Church. Those evangelicals are indeed members of a sect, as there is only one, true Church founded by Christ for the salvation of the world. This is all very surreal.
Dear Friends,
Has any read a statement from Bergoglio regarding the untimely death of his good friend “bishop” Tony Palmer? Is he being muzzled by the Vatican damage-control “experts”? Or perhaps, he really put his foot in his mouth on this one. I did a google search and came up empty.
Thanks!
How about –we email Michael Voris and ask if he can do another Vortex on the Pope’s latest “reiteration” of the four marks of the Church?.
Excerpts from:
ON THE “ECUMENICAL MOVEMENT”
An Instruction of the Holy Office (1949)
http://www.ewtn.com/library/CURIA/CDFECUM.HTM
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Some of the initiatives that have hitherto been taken by various individuals or groups, with the aim of reconciling dissident Christians to the Catholic Church, although inspired by the best of intentions, are not always based on right principles, or if they are, yet they are not free from special dangers, as experience too has already shown.
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[The bishops] shall also be on guard lest, on the false pretext that more attention should be paid to the points on which we agree than to those on which we differ, a dangerous indifferentism be encouraged, especially among persons whose training in theology is not deep and whose practice of their faith is not very strong.
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[The bishops] shall take particular care and shall firmly insist that, in going over the history of the Reformation and the Reformers the defects of Catholics be not so exaggerated and the faults of the Reformers be so dissimulated, or that things which are rather accidental be not so emphasized, that what is most essential, namely the defection from the Catholic faith, be scarcely any longer seen or felt. Finally, they shall take precautions lest, through an excessive and false external activity, or through imprudence and an excited manner of proceeding, the end in view be rather harmed than served.
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By no means is it permitted to pass over in silence or to veil in ambiguous terms the Catholic truth regarding the nature and way of justification, the constitution of the Church, the primacy of jurisdiction of the Roman Pontiff, and the only true union by the return of the dissidents to the one true Church of Christ.
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With regard especially to mixed assemblies and conferences of Catholics with non-Catholics, which in recent times have begun to be held in many places to promote “union” in the faith, there is need of quite peculiar vigilance and control on the part of Ordinaries. For if on the one hand these meetings afford the desired opportunity to spread among non-Catholics the knowledge of Catholic doctrine, which is generally not sufficiently known to them, yet on the other hand they easily involve no slight danger of indifferentism for Catholics.
Dear my2cents. As far as I can tell bergoglio did not utter even one word on this day in memory of Tony Palmer — his “brother bishop”. Wouldn’t this have been an appropriate time for him to express his sorrow? I’m sure a prayer for the soul of the deceased would have been greatly appreciated by Palmer’s widow and 2 children.
Surely this could not have been an oversight, but was done deliberately for whatever reason which we can only imagine.
Dies Irae…
dear Matthew,
your comment is absolutely compelling and I thank you for it. May the Peace of Our Lord Jesus Christ, a Peace not of this world, be to you.
dear Michael Leon,
me too.
you pull the pin out of the grenade, dear salvemur.
God love you.
dear FrA,
your bold Catholic witness is a treasure. I express my gratitude for it from the bottom of my heart.
Thank you, Michael. I think Bergoglio found himself between a rock and a hard place. If he said he would pray for him, he would be affirming the belief in purgatory. (Let’s not insult the protestants). If he said he was in heaven, then he would really show the world how un-Catholic he truly is. It must be difficult to dress like the pope and behave like your not the pope. Strange world we live in!
Dear Fr A,
You mentioned “logic and the clear teaching of the Church” which are the two things we’ve missed the most over the last 50+ years, especially as Catholic parents. It seems God is allowing this Pope to bring that absence clearly to everyone’s attention.
Well, almost everyone….
___ Pope Emeritus Benedict’s secretary, Archbishop Gaenswein said two weeks ago, in an interview about the German World Cup win, that he was ‘following “with great concern” the conflict in the Holy Land. But even if the situation has become “very worrying”, prayer is “very important” and the recent Invocation for Peace at the Vatican is “a sign and this sign must bear good fruit.”
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Unless we count as “good fruit” the fact that the Church no longer has the burden of helping sustain the lives of the 60,000 Christian who to lived in Mosul, or their property and the 1600-1800 year old Churches and Shrines demolished by ISIS since the Vatican’s Pentecost Sunday prayer meeting in the garden, it’s hard to understand how a comment like that could be conceived, much less uttered to the press by a Catholic Archbishop.
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He is right that prayer is very important. But as we here all know, there is only One God Who can hear and answer them, and The Blessed Trinity was definitely not the “god– who has no associations”–that was invoked by the Muslims as they prayed alongside our Pope that day.
____ Our Lady of Fatima pointed us to the One, True God, and to pray for the Conversion of all sinners. That gave us the answers we need during this time of great distress, and God’s promise that in the end, her Immaculate Heart will Triumph for a source of comfort and hope right now.
I think I accidentally choked back the pin a while ago – still waiting for it to pass.
Dear my2cents. I have this inkling feeling that Tony Palmer may have somehow become persona non grata to bergoglio just prior to his death. That somehow through the grace of God he may have decided to abandon his “mission” and may have decided instead to be accepted into the Catholic Church. Just imagine how that would have impacted the “ecumenical” movement between Catholics and evangelicals. It would have confirmed the worst fears of evangelicals that this was all a plot to convert them to Catholicism. Horrors!
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I keep coming back to this quote from Palmer:
http://thearkcommunity.org/download/http://www.thearkcommunity.org/Download/WD/Fraternity%20Speech.doc
“Because of our close relationship with the Charismatic Catholic Church, my wife has returned to her Catholic faith and even our Children desire to be Catholic. I am the only one in my own family that is not Catholic. This is something I have to suffer for the sake of my Mission. As an Anglican I represent a bridge between the Protestant and Catholic worlds, becoming a Catholic myself would mean losing my ability to be a bridge, therefore I suffer being outside the ‘Mother Church’ for the sake of the Kingdom of God. God knows how I suffer internally when I am unable to partake of the Communion that I feel so part of. I am reminded of the Samaritan Women who asked Jesus healing, He told her that He had not come for the Dogs but for the Jews… And she answered…’but even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from the table’… I have become worst (sic) than a dog for the sake of God’s calling, remember us when you eat?”
One of the many terrible results of Papal disfigurement of Church teaching is the credence it gives to accusations Protestants make on web-sites designed to draw the Faithful out of the Roman Catholic Church, using truth.
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One such has been proving for over 14 years, that the Roman Church deviates completely from it’s own stated teachings citing:
” Catholic priest Tom Forrest, who is head of Evangelization 2000 said, “Our job is to make people as richly and as fully Christian as we can make them by bringing them into the Catholic Church. So evangelization is never fully successful, it’s only partial until the convert is made a member of Christ’s body by being led into the Catholic Church.”
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Today he can add the above quote from the current Pope::
It is “a temptation to say: I am the Church, you are the sect. Jesus prayed for unity. The Holy Spirit creates diversity in the Church. He makes the differences. …etc.”
__
and continue to finish off with the Scriptures which testify to the contrary that Doctrine is what divides believers from unbelievers; a prayer to admonish any church leader who encourages unity with apostates or unbelievers at the expense of truth; and a call to separate from those who teach error :
(Romans 16:17; Titus 3:10). (Gen. 11:1-9), (Rev. 17-18), (Eph. 4:3,13),(1 Cor. 12:13), (Jude 3) . (1 John 4:1,6). (Eph. 5:11). (Titus 1:9, 13). (2 Timothy 2:20),(2 John 10-11)
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On the bright side– (and God always has those in mind)
At least when Our Lady’s triumph comes, they will know both the Scripture and Tradition, from studying both harder than most Catholics do in a lifetime.
More on Palmer and Bergoglio–make of it what you will.
http://cathnews.com/cathnews/18564-motorcycle-tragedy-could-derail-francis-on-christian-unity
I also warn and exhort these same friars, that in preaching, that they do, their expressions be considered and chaste, for sake of the utility and edification of the people, by announcing to them vices and virtues, punishment and glory with brevity of speech; since a brief word did the Lord speak upon the earth. (Rule of Saint Francis 1223)
I began to read the meeting of priests at Caserta as recorded on Vatican Radio. It did not take long before I realized that it was no sermon on the mount. When listening to someone responding to question, one hopes to capture the essence of the point in order to grasp its complete meaning and ramification. Rambling with sophist language does not impress nor persuade. It is often the case that the more one speaks the less one says. I don’t think he really wanted to be there at all. I am sure his other gathering was on his mind and he enjoyed it much more. “Were not our hearts burning within us while He was speaking to us on the road, while He was explaining the Scriptures to us?”… (Lk 24:32). I would hope that same “burning” would be our experience on listening to the Pope’s words.
Dear Michael,
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I think it’s safe to say that Tony Palmer, at some point, wanted very much to convert to the Catholic Faith, and was told specifically by Pope Francis that he can best serve the Church by remaining an Anglican. That’s exactly what the Pope told Anglican ‘Bishop’ of Argentina Greg Venables. This goes beyond simply failing to attempt to convert someone to the Catholic Faith, as in the story related in Louie’s post. It means actively dissuading someone from entering full communion with the Church. And for the purpose of establishing “communion” with unrepentant Heretics! It boggles the mind. If there is such a thing as anti-evangelization, this has to be a prime example.
Dear Michael Leon,
You seem to be right about the absence of the Pope’s usual personal touch regarding Mr. Palmer’s death. We found the following, from the Pontifical Council for Christian Unity, which seems to be only outreach in the name of the Pope. Perhaps he made another personal phone call that isn’t being reported.
http://www.news.va/en/news/popes-friendship-with-late-evangelical-leader-tony
Dear ,
We copied and edited this from our comments under Louie’s “Tony Palmer” blog post, because the link confirms your point about how conflicted, and confused Palmer was, by the role he was asked to play by our Church leaders –in REMAINING outside the “Mother Church”
http://pulpitandpen.org/2014/07/21/bishop-tony-palmer-has-perished-be-both-joyful-and-filled-with-sorrow/
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“…In it Mr. Palmer expresses anguish and says, “. As an Anglican I represent a bridge between the Protestant and Catholic worlds, becoming a Catholic myself would mean losing my ability to be a bridge, therefore I suffer being outside the ‘Mother Church’ for the sake of the Kingdom of God. God knows how I suffer internally when I am unable to partake of the Communion that I feel so part of. …’ even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from the table’… I have become worst (sic) than a dog for the sake of God’s calling…
___
Mr. Palmer also testifies about meeting Pope Francis in Buenos Aires, becoming his spiritual child, and HAVING MADE A COVENANT WITH HIM AND BEEN CONSECRATED BY HIM FOR THIS MISSION to serve as a Bridge. He says he was surprised that after he became Pope, Francis even made MORE time for him than before.
.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHbEWw7l_Ek
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Dear rcaamo,
Hate to dash hopes of any kind these days, but you did refer to Our Lord talking to His disciples and seem to be longing for some likeness to appear between His zeal, and that of a liberal Jesuit.
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Suggest you don’t hold your breath–unless/ until he announces plans to Consecrate Russia and we’re rid of the DD problem in the Church.
Bergoglio the other day said that one errs if he thinks that celebacy is superior to marriage — a statement expressly condemned by Trent as heretical…
According to Pope Paul IV, a heretic can never be validly elected pope…I think that there is sufficient evidence to prepare a formal accusation…
If we just lament, then by our consent we are guilty also of heresy….Faith requires that we publically denouce heresy and heretics, and ask the Cardinals in College to do the same….otherwise the Church is lost, because when the whole Church will no longer denouce heresy, that’s the end of the Church…
Dear Roman Watcher,
We heartily agree, which is why we so appreciated the following words
from the ending of Louie’s July 15, 2014 blog post on Christ the King:
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“Yes, the days of pretense are indeed over, the picture is coming into increasingly stark focus, and for this we can be thankful. Make no mistake, however, this is a sword that cuts in two directions.
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For each and every one of us, and most especially for those of you who have the blessed yet heavy burden of exercising the care of souls as members of the sacred hierarchy, the time of choosing is at hand:
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Will you stand up in defense of the Sovereign Rights of Christ the King and the Holy Catholic faith, or will you remain silent as souls are endangered by a pope who repeatedly relegates Our Blessed Lord and the authentic Faith to a place of virtual obscurity?”
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Any other ideas of how we can go about doing that? Our Bishops aren’t exactly good contact people these days.
A convocation of those who are of like mind needs to be called. Since the cardinals and bishops don’t seem to heading down the road of confrontation, then those who want to voice the faith should push them into a corner and make them proclaim something of the faith. I once noted that another Martin Luther type repetition might be in order. Take all those obvious contradictions with their Traditional responses, and nail them to somebody’s door. Make the bishop’s stand up and teach. All the liberal theologians have had free reign for the past 50 years. The yelled the loudest and got all the attention secular and eccleisatical. Like another Council of Baltimore, we need clergy and laypeople alike to state clearly the concerns we have about the direction of the Church. “Qui tacet consentire vidétur;” is the axiom still true. So where could this resistance come from in the world better the American Church. It is time for an organized, respectful, but forceful demand for answers.
This might make a good door:
United States Conference
of Catholic Bishops
3211 Fourth Street NE
Washington DC 20017
Dear rcaamo,
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The cunning of the modernist has turned one of our great virtues, i.e. obedience to legitimate authority, into a weapon with which to silence those who oppose him. The most recent example of this can be found in the words of Cardinal Santos Abril as he handed to Bishop Rogelio Livieres the letter containing Pope Francis’ command that all priestly ordinations in his overwhelmingly traditionalist diocese cease immediately: “As I am familiar with your spirit of obedience and attention to the directives of the Holy See, I trust that you will act accordingly in this matter.”
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Back in the days of Pope St. Pius X, there were what were referred to as “Councils of Vigilance”, i.e. committees of secular and religious priests who served as the eyes and ears of the bishop and were charged with bringing to his attention any suspicion of Modernism in the diocese so that it could be exposed and effectively combated before inflicting damage on the faith of the laity. Something similar is sorely needed today.
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However, one would be hard-pressed today to find faithful priests willing to risk their ministries to openly denounce heresy and apostasy, and to demand a public reaction from the responsible prelates.
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The only thing that could be done is to attempt something similar but as a well-organized lay apostolate with academic credentials behind it. Yet there would be zero chance of it getting any kind of approval or positive official recognition. On the contrary, it would very likely be denounced in the strongest of terms. Given the current climate, I could imagine such an initiative easily being the kind of thing to bring down the wrath of Rome in a way that has not been seen in decades, if not centuries.
Oh, and did anyone else see this? Pope Francis, in his “Mea Culpa” to the Protestant congregation at Caserta, said that Catholics who, in times past, defended Catholic teaching from the heretical ideas of Pentecostals, were – get this – “possessed by the devil and did not understand anything”. And this to a leader of the Pentecostal cult known for inducing trance-like convulsions and speaking in tongues among its adherents. You couldn’t make this stuff up if you tried.
One for the “Mercy for me, but not for thee” category.
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And just when you thought it can’t get any weirder, looks like the modernists are using the Italian police to silence their critics.
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Story here: http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2014/07/la-stampa-police-now-used-to-intimidate.html
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It’s good that Francis is getting used to apologizing for imaginary persecution. It should make apologizing for real persecution that much easier.
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Can a conciliar Cheka be in the works?
@ Matthew & rcaamo,
If that’s the case, then why form an organization which would give them a target?
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Why not just research to find the best, most solid Faithful Catholic Cardinals, and post their names and contact information periodically so we can start at the top, pray and fast for them, and contribute to a letter-writing campaign, from the heart of average Catholics, to ask for them to muster the courage to stand up to what’s going on at the top, in union with any they know they can trust?.
Dear Matthew,
You seem to have a good collection of quotes, going. Would you consider starting a forum with whatever you have, so we could all add to it? It might be helpful to have it all in one place, as a reference for letter-writing.
And this.
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More news about the situation in Ciudad del Este.
This over at Father Z’s site:
http://wdtprs.com/blog/2014/07/dust-up-in-paraguay/
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Ordinations stopped because they found an accused aberosexual priest in the diocese. Oh my :o.
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Finally…. I think.
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But hey, Msgr Ricca is still at the IOR and still runs the Francis hotel at the Vatican.
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Looks like “aberosexuals for me, but not for thee”
Thanks for posting this.
A thoroughly depressing, if illuminating, blog entry, Louie.
Look, you have to follow the customs of Church law, and actually send letters to all the Cardinals urging them to convene and judge the matter. You need a panal of solid canonists to write up the libellus accusationis and someone to present it, capable of responding to every objection.
yes, it may seem difficult to proceed in this way, on what we suspect would be the reaction of the College; nevertheless, Catholic charity and faith obliges us to bring the matter to the only body who can judge the case.
And so, you see, some prep work needs to be done: specifically citations of actually verified statements of Bergoglio in public before and after “election” which are not only suspicious, but open manifest contradictions of defined teachings. Then, get a committe of theologians and canonists to write up the libellus. Which can then be sent to every member of the College, asking them within 3 months to decided to convene and judge the matter, or to make public explanation of the validity of the case.
That’s just an outline of how to proceed.
If there is a substantive accusation, and the Cardinals fail to act after 6 months, then the clergy and laity of the Diocese of Rome need to be likewise invited to convene and judge the matter, since the silence of the College would be a de facto tacit consent to open heresy. The same proceedures would then be followed….in Rome there are still thousands of faithful catholics who are sickened to their stomachs with Bergoglio, and they would give the right and just judgement; and I am from my personal experience confident of them…
So the Saints who died for the Faith at the hands of the heretics were possessed by devils? Isn’t that Blasphemy?
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‘3 Q. What is blasphemy? A. Blasphemy is a horrible sin which consists in words or acts of contempt or malediction against God, the Blessed Virgin, the Saints, or sacred things.’ Catechism of St. Pius X.
Dear Roman Watcher,
Thank you sincerely, for all of that information, which may at least help get the ball rolling if the right people see it and are able to contribute..
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Are we old folks then relegated to the (still – important) task of praying and making sacrifices, or would our research-gathering be of help at this initial stage, even as a first set of leads to information that could be further investigated and verified, perhaps? As we suggested above, we could put quotes and citations in forums here, and work to verify them-maybe serving as a further incentive and support to those able to take on such a task as you outline here..
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We’re asking because we are eager to do anything possible and practical to aid in such an endeavor, yet don’t want our amateur status to sabotage it.
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SEE Roman Watcher’s response to #15 for the answer to the above- question as well.
Just one more quote and set of legal objections for the growing list.
They are coming so fast and frequently, there can be no fear of any joint body of authoritative calling to him to order. Hopefully that will be helpful in gathering a preponderance of evidence.
____
I cannot speak with the depth and breadth of some here, so I can only say how profoundly sad this makes me. Grief-stricken, actually. I pray every day for my friends and relatives who are not Catholic or who have fallen away. To think that the Pope is not interested in bringing more souls into the Church is both staggering and heart-breaking.
Were it not for “way-stations” such as this, I would feel completely despondent.
Dear Roman Watcher,
It cannot be the complete end of the Church, as we have our Lord’s promise to remain with her till the end of time, et portae inferi non praevalebnt.
However, from the point of view of our personal responsibilities as the sheep, (and some who are shepherds) we can see what has taken place so far as evidence that you are correct, insofar as God permits us to suffer those consequences.
__
To the credit of some however, there are folks who have been fighting this battle the way we have for the past 55 years, on a local level, one association at a time among family, friends, pastors, bishops, etc. One problem with that, as you point out, is that we have no actual authority to command, other than that of parents over our children, and the rights and responsibilities we have attempted to exercise, mostly in vain over the years. But with occasional success.
Christopher Ferrara with his great advocacy experience (and others at the Remnant Newspaper) would be a good person to be involved in organising any such petition. Cardinal Burke ought to be petitioned informally as a preliminary, in an effort to persuade him to assist in bringing the formal action, particularly given his expertise as a canonist.
Dear Jenny,
Welcome, and God bless, we feel much the same way, but when it gets us down, we remember Jesus is right here with us, and what He suffered so we might have the light of Faith, that will one day bring us 100x more joy than any sorrow we endure today. It sometimes seems small consolation, but then we turn to Scripture, and hear His words of love, and feel much more at peace.
It IS only temporary, and He HAS already won the victory.
Pray for us, please..
Dear Jenny, We are all suffering greatly, grievously, for the repeated attacks against Our Lord and His Holy Church from those who are successors of the Apostles, and many others with power and influence in the institutions of the Church. We need to offer up our suffering in reparation for all he evil being done in Our Lord’s Holy Name, and for the salvation of the countless souks endangered thereby. Let us pray for, and console, each other in this time of great trial and desolation. God bless you. Lynda
Alas, Cardinal Burke probably is not someone to initially turn to. Last fall in a public meeting in Rome, he told the crowd that Bergoglio is a “perfectly orthodox” man…! And that after the Sclafari interview….
Yet, if the evidence were marshalled in good order, perhaps Burke would see the light…or perhaps he has already seen the light…if he has eyes that want to see…
Dear Lynda,
Burke was the first one we thought of, but our research showed evidence of good personal values, but unwillingness to confront or even criticize notorious promoters of false ecumenism. He was ordained by Paul VI and a friend of John Paul II and Benedict, whom he highly praised and wished an extra long Papacy–which is why we didn’t suggest him earlier.
“Indifference” to the Catholic Faith? Sorry, Bergoglio is an ENEMY of the Catholic Faith.
Think for a moment how historic is the time we live in.
—–
Throughout the centuries, it’s been tough to be a good Christian – even when Christianity was quite mainstream, those who really loved & lived the true Faith were few & far between.
—–
But today – we no longer face the lions, but is the spectacle of public revulsion and contempt – even from within the Church – much easier to bear? Any easier?
—–
These latest statements of Francis are, in my opinion, the most shocking yet. Before, a bit was left to inference, but, now, it is ALL laid-out as naked as is possible. “DON’T BOTHER BEING CATHOLIC” – he shouts it from the rooftops.
—–
I am personally, honestly unnerved by this. I feel like I just can’t take much more of this man as pope. I don’t know what else to say.
“BREAKING” NEWS
From Church Militant. T.V. –8 days late:
“Tony Palmer an archbishop of the Anglican Church, died recently due to injuries suffered during a motorcycle accident.
___
Palmer made waves in January, while at a Pentecostal convention run by Kenneth Copeland, when he claimed that Martin Luther’s protest was over, and that it was time for Christians to Unite.
___
Mr. Palmer then revealed a video he had recorded of Pope Francis urging unity and communion, which received international attention.
May God rest his soul”.
_____
(No ELEPHANT in THIS living room),…..
____
Dear Catholic Thinker,
We’re pretty sure everyone who has posted here recently knows what you mean. On the up-side there is not much he can do that would surprise us–especially as we have the whole ugly plan laid out by Jesus’ words in the Gospel accounts of the end-times, Matthew 24-25 is our favorite, and Revelations, not to mention many of the Epistles, like Thessalonians, Peter, James, Jude..
____.
But we have an extra help in understanding it all, directly from Our Lady, and if ever there was a time to take her words seriously, and pass them on to others, it’s now.
____
We’ve studied a lot of Catholic Prophecy for the past 40 years, and one recurring theme always gives us hope. “Just when all seems lost, a marvelous change will occur, something unimaginable from God”
We have to believe that’s the Consecration of Russia And since Our Lady asked the faithful to act to bring that about, we should redouble our efforts.
____
If whatever God does in the near future involves the internet crashing, leaving us all out of communication with each other, we take some lasting memories with us, of good, solid, decent fellow Catholics, whom it’s a privilege and a great Grace to have met. Let’s see this through to the end, together, and hope to share in the promised time of Peace, soon. We wished that for our children, now we’re wishing it for our grandchildren, and for all of you. God Bless.
_____.
____
@ACT: “we no longer face the lions”? Some of us don’t … for the time being.
Others do … in Mosul and elsewhere.
… and even in Italy, if La Stampa’s reporting is correct …
(http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2014/07/la-stampa-police-now-used-to-intimidate.html)
Don’t blame us for this, you all asked for it…..
Two men are hunting when one accidentally shoots the other.
He freaks out and calls 911 on his cell-phone:
“I just accidentally shot my friend while we were hunting! I think he’s dead! What do i do?! What do I do?”
“Ok sir. Calm down. First let’s make sure your friend is really dead. . . ”
“Ok! Hang on! ”
BANG!
“Ok. He’s really dead. Now what?” .
🙂
“Judas, dost thou betray the Son of man with a kiss?”
– Gospel of St. Luke 22:48
–
THIS is the “new evangelization” — the kiss of Judas!
–
Please watch the video found in this article at Remnant news that shows how John Paul II embraced and promoted the anti-Catholic “charismatic renewal”.
http://remnantnewspaper.com/web/index.php/fetzen-fliegen/item/861-one-church-one-world-government
–
And now we have as pope bergoglio who is the “new judas” who kisses the bride of Christ in a sign of betrayal.
–
Holy Mother Mary, pray for us!
–
“[21] For there shall be then great tribulation, such as hath not been from the beginning of the world until now, neither shall be. [22] And unless those days had been shortened, no flesh should be saved: but for the sake of the elect those days shall be shortened. [23] Then if any man shall say to you: Lo here is Christ, or there, do not believe him. [24] For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. [25] Behold I have told it to you, beforehand.”
– Gospel of St. Matthew 24:21-25
I was going to mention the same thing. Our suffering is nothing compared to some of our brothers around the world.
I think everyone should calm down a little, step back and stop seeking out scandal. Give thanks to God for His only son who died for us and for the gift of the True Faith. Thank Him for the Church, the Mass, the sacraments. Thank our blessed Mother for keeping you close to her Son.
What on earth is wrong with Mr Voris? How can people continue to work for him when he’s making a mockery out of the work they purport to do? Blessed Michael, the Archangel, defend us in battle . . .
Last one, we promise:
“I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my grandfather”.
“Not screaming in terror like his passengers”.
There’s no avoiding the ongoing egregious scandals from those who are supposed to lead us in Faith and morals. We ate seeing people being led into grave iniquity, ruining their souls. We have a duty to do what we can to mitigate the damage to souls, particularly for those for whom we have a direct responsibility.
dear GreatPretender51,
Exactly. And for those who would break kneecaps to anyone who states so, I would respond : One can be an enemy of the Catholic Faith even if one does not know it, or even mean to be. Period. Think Fr. Hesse. We speak objectively , sans judgment of the interior of anyone.
You could turn off the computer.
dear Paul Morphy,
Fabulous comment! Being myself basically a RadTrad drama queen, I thought I was the only one who could actually see a thoroughly depressing post by the marvelous Mr. V. as illuminating. God love you.
No, we cannot turn off our solemn duty to our children, our family members, our parishioners, our fellow Catholics, to anyone we meet who is being led away from God and the moral life by these all-pervasive scandals. Too many people are pretending not to notice the terrible harm being done, and so allowing it to multiply in its effects.
dear Indignus famulus,
Ah,hahahahaha,
I love this ! You’ve given me the necessary comic relief for the next 36+ hours, inasmuch as with this, plus some extra strong Puerto Rican coffee, I may be able to make it through until then.
ATTN: Just a reminder to those who might still be unaware:
–
There has been a call to make August 1st, 2014 a day of prayer, penance and fasting in supplication for our persecuted brethren in Iraq, Syria, and the Middle East. I welcome all here to participate to whatever extent they are able. Let us pray fervently for perseverance in these most troubling times.
–
https://akacatholic.com/topic/august-1st-2014-day-of-prayer-and-penance/
dear JamesTheLesser ,
One simply cannot argue with what you say here, IMHO. I totally agree.
Rcaamo – Amen!
Dear James The Lesser,
So you’re the one Michael Voris has been listening to? 🙂
Dear deMaria,
Our pleasure! 🙂
That’s this coming Friday = First Friday. Thanks for the reminder, Matthew.
OK. I calmed down.
FYI. If you go to the official Vatican page which contains speeches by bergoglio here:
http://w2.vatican.va/content/francesco/en/speeches/2014/july/index.html
–
You will find the latest speech by Bergoglio titled:
“Private visit of the Holy Father to Caserta for a meeting with the evangelical pastor Giovanni Traettino (28 July 2014)”
–
Currently it is only available in Italian:
http://w2.vatican.va/content/francesco/it/speeches/2014/july/documents/papa-francesco_20140728_caserta-pastore-traettino.html
–
So can anyone explain to me how and why a speech given during a “private visit” by bergoglio is on the official public Vatican website?
–
This is truly a sad day for the Catholic Church. And this is truly a sad and sorry papacy.
–
How will we ever recover from this disaster? It is like cruising along on a motorcycle on an empty country road when suddenly a car appears coming at full speed directly at you. There is no time to maneuvre, only enough time to ditch the bike, but this is not enough and the impact sends one immediately into a state of unconsciousness.
–
Pray to your guardian angel.
dear Jenny,
You speak sincerely and poignantly. At least you know that you are sane. If you did not feel as you do, you would be insane.
When I returned Home after living my childhood in the House of Pope Pius XII, I was crushed to see my Home had been burglarized. Anyone who has a heart, as you do, would feel the same as you do — when they are victims of a Home invasion.
Peace be to you.
Dear Michael,
Just hack into the Vatican website and type in
chi sulla terra vuole sapere questo?
if google translate worked, that means
who on earth wants to know this? ( in Italian).
Zenit has provided a full English translation for anyone who has the stromach to read through it. Not I.
http://www.zenit.org/en/articles/pope-s-address-to-pentecostal-community-in-caserta
Pope’s Address to Pentecostal Community in Caserta
“The Holy Spirit creates ‘diversity’ in the Church”
EF asks: “Heresies and Schisms Are an Expression of the Holy Ghost for Francis?”
_______
LInk here: http://eponymousflower.blogspot.com/2014/07/heresies-and-schisms-are-expression-of.html
_______
So it’s not just me. 🙂
And since we are on a populist theme: Franci’s Roman favela:
http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2014/07/the-high-cost-of-frugal-living.html
_______
“It’s easier for an elephant……”. You get the drift.
=============
Unity In Diversity
by Bruno Ierullo July 2, 2014
https://partnersinharvest.org/unity-diversity/
After Vatican Council II, Evangelicals were referred to as “separated brethren” and the idea of this separation in light of ecumenism took on a more cordial form with a term used by Pope John Paul II as “Organic Unity”. The Roman Catholic Church spoke of this term often but the problem with it is that it very distant and non-relational. The thought behind the concept is, “we can’t make it happen, so let us be spectators of it”. It grows on its own to a higher ecclesial level (Church level) and eventually to the magisterium (Church authority). Any honest Catholic would say that the strides forward in this motion were short and slow.
–
What we have today with Pope Francis is a term called “Reconciled Diversity”. This term and concept was being explored when Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, before his election as Pope, presented it to a group of Waldensians in 1993. It seems humorous and ironic that the term and the concept used today by Pope Francis is taken from a Lutheran Theologian, Oscar Cullman who died in 1999. It is very clear for those who have ears to hear that many Catholics still hold to the “old school”, as I call it, of Organic Unity. Organic Unity in itself is still a valid form when considering the Holy Spirit is still behind the scenes to make things happen, and that there are those who hope that all will become restored to Rome. All the same, Pope Francis would like to see something different happen: Reconciled Diversity.
Reconciled Diversity means a “Unity In Diversity” without compromise. Therefore, it is possible to create a Joint Declaration for the purpose of Faith and Mission.
=============
=============
OSCAR CULLMANN, the Protestant theologian and New Testament scholar, was one of this century’s ecumenical pioneers. A lay member of the (Lutheran) Church of the Augsburg Confession of Alsace and Lorraine, he became involved in dialogue with Catholic and Orthodox as far back as the 1920s – long before it became fashionable.
http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/obituary-oscar-cullmann-1077098.html
Despite his firm commitment to ecumenism, he was not a supporter of a new “World Unity Church” to bring together all Christians. His 1986 book Unity Through Diversity, which summed up his lifetime experience, argued instead for a “community of autonomous churches”.
–
As he declared in 1972, ecumenism aimed at fusing the churches would
not only destroy the true unity in the Holy Spirit, but would lead Christians of different denominations to the temptation to abandon the foundations of their faith and to seek the principle of unity outside this faith. . . Only an ecumenism that respects the diversity of charisms can unite us in Christ, while at the same time leading the Christian churches of all denominations back to the sources of the Christian faith.
=============
“Reconciled diversity” from bergoglio’s Address to Pentecostal Community in Caserta
http://www.zenit.org/en/articles/pope-s-address-to-pentecostal-community-in-caserta
What does the Holy Spirit do? I said he does something else, which perhaps one might think is division, but it isn’t. The Holy Spirit creates “diversity” in the Church. The First Letter to the Corinthians, chapter 12. He creates diversity! And this diversity is truly very rich, very beautiful. But then, the Holy Spirit himself creates unity, and so the Church is one in diversity. And, to use the word of an Evangelical whom I love very much, a “reconciled diversity” by the Holy Spirit. He creates both things: He creates the diversity of charisms and then He creates the harmony of charisms. Therefore, the early theologians of the Church, the early Fathers – I am speaking of the 3rdor 4thcentury – said: “The Holy Spirit is harmony,” because He creates this harmonious unity in diversity.
….
… each one has its peculiarity, its charism. This is unity in diversity. It is on this path that we, Christians, do what we call with the theological name of ecumenism. We try to have this diversity become more harmonized by the Holy Spirit and become unity.
===============
There IS a method to his madness. So do not say that he is a fool. He is no fool. We are the fools if we do not see through this plan to destroy the Church. And this is not a plan that bergoglio simply cooked up on his own….
http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/obituary-oscar-cullmann-1077098.html
[OSCAR CULLMANN] was received by Popes Pius XII, John XXIII and, above all, Paul VI. The Protestant theologian Karl Barth used to say teasingly, “Oscar, on your gravestone it will say, `Here lies the adviser to three popes’!”
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Cullmann’s conversations with Paul VI gave rise to the plan for an ecumenical institute in Jerusalem, founded at Tantur in 1972.
–
Cullmann had attended the Second Vatican Council of 1962-65 as an observer and had recorded his impressions of the Council. Thirty years later, in 1993, he was the first Protestant to receive the Pope Paul VI Prize, presented to him by Cardinal Carlo Martini of Milan.
Cardinal Carlo Maria Martini — He could have been the successor to JPII instead of Ratzinger…
—
Excerpt from “The Martini Pope”
By John Vennari
http://www.cfnews.org/page88/files/065837621bedf51d45b91a5e75699ef5-174.html
–
As is usually the case, the press loved Martini not for his attachment to the Catholic Faith of all time, but for his zest to challenge it.
The media praised Martini as an “open-minded thinker,” one who “struck an original note in Church affairs.”[1]
What were some of Martini’s radical ideas?
In his last interview, which Martini asked to be published after his death, Martini said the Catholic Church is “200 years behind the times”.
Martini further said, ”Our culture has grown old, our churches and our religious houses are big and empty, the bureaucratic apparatus of the Church grows, our rites and our dress are pompous.”
Martini encouraged opening up reception of the Eucharist for the divorced and remarried Catholics, counseling against what he called “discrimination.”[2]
In the book Night Conversation with Cardinal Martini published in 2010, Martini insisted, “You can’t make God a Catholic God. God is beyond all the barriers and borders we create.”[3]
In the same book, speaking of dialogue with non-Catholics, Cardinal Martini said that once you talk frankly with members of various other religions, “You will even be glad that the other person is a Protestant or Muslim”.[4]
Martini acknowledged the German and Austrian Bishops’ dissent from Humanae Vitae, as “pointing to a direction that we could promote today.”[5]
Martini called for a more collegial and synodal approach to Church governance.[6]
In 2007, “when the 16th Century Tridentine Mass was introduced as an option for Roman Catholic churches, Martini said he would refuse to celebrate it.”[7]
Yet Pope Francis, on the first anniversary of the Cardinal’s death, publicly praised Martini as “a father for the whole Church”.
Francis went on to call Martini a “prophetic” figure, and “a man of discernment and peace”[8]
Likewise in his infamous interview with La Repubblica’s atheist Editor Eugenio Scalfari, Francis spoke of Cardinal Martini as “someone who is very dear to me and also to you.”[9]
Optimistic commentators claim we must “read Francis through Benedict”. That may be true in part. It seems more accurate, however, to “read Francis through Martini,” since Francis seems to be following the progressive program outlined by the radical Italian Cardinal.
Sandro Magister’s Chiesa identified Francis as the “Martini Pope,” and a “Dream Come Through” for the progressive wing in the post-Conciliar Church.
http://www.zenit.org/en/articles/pope-s-address-to-pentecostal-community-in-caserta
“The Holy Spirit creates “diversity” in the Church.”
-The context of this was to Protestants declaring that their separated and schismatic ‘churches’ are due to the active will of the Holy Spirit who does not see this as ‘division’, but ‘diversity.’ A “reconciled diversity” in Francis’ own words.
Further context:
“We are in the age of globalization, and we wonder what globalization is and what the unity of the Church would be: perhaps a sphere, where all points are equidistant from the center, all are equal? No! This is uniformity. And the Holy Spirit does not create uniformity! What figure can we find? We think of the polyhedron: the polyhedron is a unity, but with all different parts; each one has its peculiarity, its charism.”
– Francis is referring to the relationship between the Catholics and the Protestants who are his audience. The context is NOT about regular ‘diversity’ within Catholicism (Novus Ordo vs. Traditional Latin Mass / Franciscans vs. Jesuits / Priests vs. nuns.) He is referring to Catholics vs. Protestants & Schismatics.
PROOF:
“This is unity in diversity. It is on this path that we, Christians, do what we call with the theological name of ECUMENISM. We try to have this diversity become more harmonized by the Holy Spirit and become unity.”
– Francis is talking about Ecumenism! We only engage in ecumenism with those separated from the Church, not those within. The context Francis is referring to is that relationship between Catholics and Schismatics/Protestants! And Francis says this ‘diversity’ is really a ‘unity’ that the Holy Spirit desires and created!!!!
Francis then goes on to suggest that everyone in the world is the “Flesh of Christ!” Which he derives as a meaning of the Incarnation stretching far beyond the words of St. John and what we understand the Incarnation to be! This Francis uses as another example of unity between Catholics and non-Catholics.
Even more scandalous, Francis blasts those Catholics and martyrs of the past who he accuses of furthering disunity by not accepting the ‘diversity’ of the Protestants and heretics and who sought to curb this ‘diversity’ from happening!!! He compares these faithful Catholics who stood by the Church as racists who wanted to retain some sort of demented purity, compared to Josephs brothers who wanted to kill Joseph out of jealousy!!!
“And these laws were sanctioned by the baptized! Some of those who made these laws and some of those who persecuted, denounced their Pentecostal brothers because they were “enthusiasts,” almost “madmen “ who ruined the race, some were Catholics … I am the Pastor of Catholics: I ask forgiveness for this! I ask forgiveness or those Catholic brothers and sisters who did not understand and who were tempted by the devil and did the same thing that Joseph’s brothers did. I ask the Lord to He give us the grace to admit and forgive … Thank you!”
Reconciled Diversity — OSCAR CULLMANN and Ratzinger
http://www.traditionalmass.org/articles/article.php?id=62&catname=5
–
[OSCAR CULLMANN] took part in the Second Vatican Council as an observer, and Paul VI called him “one of my best friends” (Il Sabato, p. 62). “During Vatican II, Cullmann, who was a personal guest of the Secretariat for the Unity of Christians, aided in determining the scriptural, christocentric and historical orientation of conciliar theology…more recently, Cullmann has proposed a model for a ‘Community of Churches’ in his work Unity Through Diversity (Brescia, 1988). Ratzinger praised this model during his meeting with the Waldensians of Rome on January 29” (p. 62).
–
He knew Ratzinger during the Council, and considered him “the best of the so–called periti, the experts…with the reputation for being an avant-garde progressive” (ibid. p. 63). From that time on they corresponded with each other, at first with regard to exegetical problems; later, states Cullmann: “We corresponded more frequently, and increasingly turned our attention to a discussion of my proposed model of ‘unity by means of diversity’, and as we mentioned earlier, the Cardinal has praised this model both in private and in public” (p. 63). Cullmann looks back with particular pleasure to a letter which he received from Ratzinger stating “I have always learned” from your works, “even when I was not in agreement with you”. This Cullmann sees this as a sign of their “unity in diversity” (ibid. p. 63). “Cullmann’s mission…is to number himself among those who have contributed the most to the dialogue between Catholics and Protestants” (Ardusso, op. cit., p. 112), though he himself remains firmly attached to heresy, explicitly denying the infallibility of the Catholic Church, and the primacy of jurisdiction of Peter and his successors (cf. Ardusso, op. cit., p. 112; Il Sabato, p. 62). Thus he is a bridge between Catholics and Protestants…in order to make the Catholics become protestants, and at the same time having them believe that they are still Catholic: “united” yes, but …“in diversity”.
——-
The Church of the future, therefore, will be one (in its pluriformity). Sometime in the future. What about in the meantime? We are in an “intermediate time” (30 Days, p. 66) of “unity in diversity”. “In my opinion,” explains Ratzinger, “this model could be described by the well—known term “reconciled diversity”, which is very similar to the my dear colleague Oscar Cullmann’s thoughts on the matter” (p. 67).
The phrase “Walking in Reconciled Diversity” is taken from a German Lutheran theologian called Oscar Cullman and is quoted by Cardinal Bergoglio, now Pope Francis, in the book he co-authored with Rabbi Skorka of Buenos Aires, “On Heaven and Earth”.
—
” He ( ie. Cullman) says we should not seek that everyone from the outset affirm the same thing, but instead he proposes that we walk together in reconciled diversity… .. he asks that we not throw rocks at one another but rather that we continue walking together …….. It is the way of advancing the resolution of a conflict with the virtues of all, without nullifying the diverse traditions or falling into syncretism. Each one from their identity, in reconciliation, seeking the unity of truth”(On Heaven and Earth p.217).
–
http://www.interfaithjourneys.net/home/walking-in-reconciled-diversity
Lutheran theologian Oscar Cullmann was the Protestant equivalent of Cardinal Augustin Bea as a pioneer of present day Ecumenism
(above left, the two toast the future).
–
Cullmann was one of the observers of the false religions invited to Vatican II.
Afterwards, he found in Joseph Ratzinger a stalwart supporter of his ideas.
–
Later, the media began to spread that Ratzinger was a “conservative.” Based on such stories, two reporters asked Cullmann about his continued good relationship with Ratzinger. Here is the question and answer:
–
Question: “How do you explain this dialogue with a personage whom many Catholics view as reactionary and an enemy of ecumenical dialogue?”
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Answer: “I do not understand it. It is an erroneous opinion. I met Ratzinger 30 years ago, at Vatican Council II. He was the best of the so-called expert theologians or periti, with a reputation for being a radical progressivist” (1).
–
After Cullmann died, Ratzinger paid him this homage:
–
“Cullmann and I were linked by a profound spiritual friendiship
since the times of the Council” (2).
–
One of the principle points Cullmann expounded was that St. Peter had no successor. Above right, he is warmly greeted by John Paul II.
—————-
For pictures see article “Church Revolution in Pictures” at:
http://www.traditioninaction.org/RevolutionPhotos/A100rcCullmann_Ratzinger.htm
—————
MY COMMENTS:
–
If as Cullmann expounded Peter had no successor, then the papacy is a fraud. And therefore the Catholic Church is also fraud. And the pope is at best simply “the bishop of Rome”. Therefore the papacy must be destroyed in order to further the goal of ecumenism through the principle of “reconciled diversity”.
–
All of this is 100% in agreement with the words and actions of bergoglio. Perhaps this is no surprise by now. What IS surprising is that these ideas were already accepted and promoted to one degree or another by Ratzinger and the other post Vatican II popes.
I can see why Louie seems so unhappy. He’s not following the “Top 10 Key Secrets to Happiness” of Bishop of Rome Francis.
***
9. Don’t proselytize; respect others’ beliefs. “We can inspire others through witness so that one grows together in communicating. But the worst thing of all is religious proselytism, which paralyzes: ‘I am talking with you in order to persuade you,’ No. Each person dialogues, starting with his and her own identity. The church grows by attraction, not proselytizing,” the pope said.
***
“The worse thing of all” is trying to persuade others of the truth of the teachings of Christ as handed down and taught by the Church He founded. Complete madness!
More info about the Chekists repressing the FFI.
______
http://eponymousflower.blogspot.com/2014/07/troika-over-franciscans-of-immaculate.html
_______
Viva la revolution!
dear Michael Leon,
As a convert from the heresy of Lutheranism, I feel qualified to define “walk together in reconciled diversity.” The meaning is: ” let’s just not bother, ‘kay?”
“Surely nothing should be preferable to a Catholic man than that schisms and dissensions among Christians be torn out by the roots and that all Christians be ‘careful to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.’ (Eph. 4:3) […] But, that the faithful of Christ and the clergy should pray for Christian unity under the leadership of heretics, and, what is worse, according to an intention, polluted and infected as much as possible with heresy, can in no way be tolerated. The true Church of Jesus Christ was established by divine authority, and is known by a fourfold mark, which we assert in the Creed must be believed; and each one of these marks so clings to the others that it cannot be separated from them; hence it happens that that Church which truly is, and is called Catholic, should at the same time shine with the prerogatives of unity, sanctity, and apostolic succession. Therefore, the Catholic Church alone is conspicuous and perfect in the unity of the whole world and of all nations, particularly in that unity whose beginning, root, and unfailing origin are that supreme authority and ‘higher principality’ (St. Irenaeus) of blessed Peter, the prince of the Apostles, and of his successors in the Roman Chair. No other Church is Catholic except the one which, founded on the one Peter, grows into one ‘body compacted and fitly joined together’ (Eph. 4:16) in the unity of faith and charity.”
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from: The Letter of the Sacred Office to the Bishops of England dated September 16, 1864 (D1685)
What you posted on the main blog (Michael Leon) reminded us that such diabolical disorientation could be expected as far back as when Our Lady’s Fatima requests were first ignored by the Popes. We went back to Pius XII and were blown away by the evidence of it so clearly displayed when reading his Encyclical on Christ the King.
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It’s gut-wrenching to see the lack of Faith in Our Lady as The Messenger of God; Pope Pius’s misplaced trust in men; and to contemplate this same horrendous betrayal played out in Pontificate after Pontificate until now, when so much evil could have been entirely prevented. Keeping in mind that Jesus had conveyed to Sister Lucia, the depth of His anger at the refusal of His ministers to obey “His requests” and told her to tell them that as they delay, they would suffer the fate of the King of France:
10 years after WWI ended, in 1929, Our Lady appeared to Sister Lucia at Tuy’s requesting the Consecration of Russia by the Pope in union with the Bishops. Another 10 years passed during which that request was not granted, and by October 20, 1939, WWII began as Pius XII sat writing “Summi Pontificatus” prompting this:
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106. Venerable Brethren, the hour when this Our first Encyclical reaches you is in many respects a real “Hour of Darkness”
in which the spirit of violence and of discord brings indescribable suffering on mankind. Do We need to give assurance that Our paternal heart is close to all Our children in compassionate love, and especially to the afflicted, the oppressed, the persecuted?
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The nations swept into the tragic whirlpool of war are perhaps as yet only at he “beginnings of sorrows” but even now there reigns in thousands of families death and desolation, lamentation and misery. The blood of countless human beings, even noncombatants, raises a piteous dirge.. “Mary, Help of Christians”.
107. “What has already happened and is still happening, was presented, as it were, in a vision before Our eyes when, while
still some hope was left, We left nothing undone in the form suggested to us by Our Apostolic office and by the means at Our disposal, to prevent recourse to arms and to keep open the way to an understanding honorable to both parties”.
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Convinced that the use of force on one side would be answered by recourse to arms on the other, We considered it a duty
inseparable from Our Apostolic office and of Christian Charity to try every means to spare mankind and Christianity the
horrors of a world conflagration, even at the risk of having Our intentions and Our aims misunderstood.
(AND THIS NEXT PARAGRAPH MUST BE HOW OUR LADY HAS BEEN MADE TO FEEL, THOUGH PIUS SEEM OBLIVIOUS OF THAT):
‘Our advice, if heard with respect, was not however followed and while Our pastoral heart looks on with sorrow and foreboding, the Image of the Good Shepherd comes up before Our gaze, and it seems as though We ought to repeat to the world in His name: “If
thou hadst known the things that are to thy peace; but now they are hidden from thy eyes” (Saint Luke xix.).
We’ve put this and the remainder in a NEW GENERAL FORUM: “PAPAL-DISORIENTATION/MARY STILL WAITING
Dear FrA
Actual madness would be a lot simpler to deal with, and maybe even a welcomed relief in comparison to this.
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It’s the alternatives like diabolical disorientation or a deliberate agenda to destroy what was and remake it into what is desired; or just to destroy, period; which present us with some of the more disturbing options, and help souls onto the wide road to Hell, and make our life very distressing.
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but…Jesus says, “Come to Me” and when we remember, we’re ok.
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Dear deMaria,
We thank God you made it all the way home, and are here to help others understand the chaos.
God Bless you.
Was this comment necessary IF? Do you really need further proof that things are bad? Seems like you have a pretty good grasp on it. This has nothing to do with Voris… and I take your comment as a veiled insult. My point, had you really applied some intellectual honesty, was that posts in this thread started to become a barrage of links to scandal…..with people practically falling into despair at the horror and lamenting what they were gonna do now. It’s good to be informed but, get a grip.
Dear FrA, it is utter madness, objectively evil and disordered. The really awful thing is that all the orthodox lay persons, religious, priests and bishops (there still exists some, does there not) are not saying this and not calling for the continuing scandal to be ended. They seem to be in a deadly delusional apathetic state. How can so many have switched off their normal ordered rational and affective faculties. It is shocking. It’s like a mass narcosis. Dear Lord, wake up your good servants.
One thing that seems really odd about Tony Palmer–no huge funeral. For such a superstar, you’d think they go all out and have all the celbs and long raving eulogies at some arena with a billion flowers etc.
___All that went out was that the funeral was “pending”.
Another thing to consider…. We all get pretty sickened by how fast and how far this all has been taken now by the modernists-in-charge, but bottom line it and we’re headed for something like the Fatima Chastisement or Akita’s Fire falling from the sky, not to mention all the plagues in the Bible, at some point. How else is God going to put an end to the evildoing before nobody is left to save?
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Something tells us it would be better to focus on being patient for a while longer, so our loved ones-relatives, friends, etc, have as much time as possible to repent as needed. It is supposed to come suddenly and hit hard.
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Heck, we should include ourselves in that “need more time” group, too. We’re definitely not perfect. Although we are working on it and aware more than a lot of others, for that very reason we will be held more accountable, right?
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Ora et labora (St. Benedict,, pray for us) (Padre Pio, be our heavenly friend).
Dear Lynda,
It just occurred to us, that it’s not really for ourselves that we get ticked off about all these outrages, because they won’t change how we think or believe or act at all.
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It’s more for the affect they have on others that we’re concerned, and on the real work of trying to save souls. But even there, we just have to keep our cools, and lay it out that we’ve got really big problems going on at the top, just as Jesus said we would in Matthew 24-25. And then go from there, trusting God to work it out for the best, as usual. Not that it’s insignificant stuff, but maybe it won’t affect us as much as we think.
Yes, we see the evil effects of things the Pope is saying and doing on many vulnerable, badly-formed Catholics around us, leading them to turn away from the Faith and objective morality – and confirmed in this by priests, bishops, their parents, etc., not pointing out the errors but appearing to accept the statements by their failure to do so.
Sorry, IF, my response appeared at 43.
Dear Maria. I echo the sentiments of Indignus. And let me add that with the help of God and the intercession of Our Holy Mother Mary we will be victorius and will restore honor to the Bride of Christ – His Holy Catholic Church.
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Viva Cristo Rey!
[Enjoy the video of a Hymn to Christ the King.]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZAUccwqVEY
James – I do remember you telling me to ‘bugger off’ once. No one’s insulting you – but it’s somewhat insulting that you frequently feel the need to accuse others of being insulting. Now, Bergoglio and his ilk – they are not only insulting, they are walking insults to Christ and His Church.
Dear Lynda,
If it’s not something you’d rather keep to yourself, we wonder if you’ve seen any of them turning around completely as the years go by.
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We’ve seen more of that with folks who were almost total strangers, than with family. Maybe it’s the old “no man is a prophet in is own country” thing. Or maybe this culture just keeps pounding away at people in so many different ways, and they don’t have the Grace to resist it.
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“WOLVES!”
Dear Lynda,
…worth a thousand words
http://momontherange.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/Head-in-sand.jpg
Dear JamesTheLesser,
Looks like you took that comment as some kind of nasty personal attack?
Take a look at #26 and #28, and you should see it was just meant as a third joke to help lighten things up. We thought you’d chuckle and pop in a smiley.
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p.s. Just in case you mistook deMaria’s comment (below this) as laughing at you, if you look at the time, you’ll see it was posted before our comment to you–she just put it in the wrong spot, but was responding to our jokes in #28.
dear Michael Leon,
thank you for this–I enjoyed it!
desde el fondo de mi corazon
Lynda,
This evil effect is obvious the intent of Bergoglio, as can be confirmed by his consistency, repetition, emphasis, and refusal to withdraw what he has said or done to scandalize.
To this extent, it is manifest that he has a malicious hatred of the Faith handed down to the Saints and is actively working to overthrow it, as much as he dares to presume to be able.
For this reason, the public declaration of his heresies and treachery is a must for the College of Cardinals, if they themselves do not want to follow him into the Schism which he is opening every day among the billion of catholics in the world…
Sir Thomas More must feel a fool, going to the scaffold for the sake of a silly misunderstanding. If only he had kept his mind on the true gift of the Holy Spirit, Ecumenism and the Environment, he’d never have been so adamant in defending the Faith.
I’ve always been astounded that orthodox Catholics claimed Ratzinger as one of their own.
I wonder if the FFI feels “inspired by witness.” Just solemnly wondering.
“Rorate Caeli” has a chilling piece about the Vatican’s use of the Carabinieri to interrogate an Italian author accused of “harshness” in his work on the persecution of the FFI. Discussed the Vatican’s subsuming the judiciary function into the executive, effectively politicizing enforcement.
“Relativism, by its very nature, imposes an authority which it denies, and represses a freedom which it affirms.” – Roberto de Mattei
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That’s one of the most quotable statements I’ve read in a while.
Dear Johnno,
Thank you for this post. It struck us as exceptionally well done in it’s clear, logical presentation of the evidence -from the Pope’s own words, and the conclusions you have drawn represent our own exactly, with far more eloquence than we could have managed.
We’ve quoted you in the General Forum on Uniting the World….
Technically they are the same thing. Indifferentism is a heresy, and just one among the many that comprise the grand heresy of modernism. Since heresy makes one an enemy of God, i.e. outside the salvation of the Church aka in the darkness, you really can’t be one without being the other.
Very good points, very well said.
So right. We think of St. Isaac Jogues, being given a special dispensation by the Pope to continue to say Mass despite his newly-acquired handicap, after he endured the torture of the North American Indians he had gone back to save, who had chewed off his fingers..
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This Pope would have called him an egotistical Pharisee and said, “No, No, No! we don’t proselytize!”
Maybe he was supposed to just join in one of their great-spirit dances and smoke a peace pipe while letting them stay in their ignorance for the sake of “unity”..
Amazingly, St. Isaac received another dispensation to return to the same people and continue his “solemn proselytizing”, in this instance becoming martyred. Hard to have a dialogue with people when your fingers are in their mouths.
HERE ARE SOME MORE INTERESTING FINDINGS: ONCE AGAIN THE PROBLEMS STARTS WITH IGNORING FATIMA, LONG BEFORE VATICAN II:
Wickipedia on Catholic missionary work reports:
“… contemporary Catholic missionary work has undergone profound change since the Second Vatican Council, and has become explicitly conscious of Social Justice issues and the dangers of cultural imperialism or economic exploitation disguised as religious conversion. .. missionaries .. observe the principles of inculturation in their missionary work”
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“Inculturation” . in the Roman Catholic Church, referring to the adaptation of the way Church teachings are presented to non-Christian cultures, and to the influence of those cultures on the evolution of these teachings.”
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To our surprise, we found, that those changes really began at the same time Our Lady of Fatima’s requests were being ignored by the Vatican:
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In the late 1580’s in China–The emperor granted freedom of religion to Catholics. The Jesuit missionary, Matteo Ricci had adapted the Catholic faith to Chinese thinking, permitting… the cultic veneration of ancestors, which he described as “a mere cultural practice”. The Holy See disagreed, deeming the veneration “worship” and ” idolatry”, and forbade (it). The Chinese
emperor felt duped and refused to permit any alteration of the existing Christian practices. “The Vatican policy was the death of the missions in China.”
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Benedict XV (Pope during WWI and Fatima) 1914-1922_and Pius XII, began promoting local clergy “so the local cultures were better recognized.”
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***THEN:
“In 1939 Pope Pius XII, within weeks of his coronation, radically reverted the 250 year old Vatican policy and permitted the veneration of dead family members in China” The Vatican..stated that “Chinese customs were no longer considered “superstitious””.
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(Our Lady of Fatima had said War is a punishment for sin, and WWII began in 1939, as this same Pope continued to rely on diplomacy instead of Consecrating Russia.)
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As we all know, things went from bad to worse with each succeeding Papacy, with “ecumenical gatherings and Koran kissing, Buddas on Tabernacle in Assisi….until now, the Jews think we teach they don’t need any conversion, and the Pope appears to be preaching that lie to every other sect and religion in the world.
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Dear Indignus Famulus, I don’t understand your question. Sorry. I see around me a great rejection of the doctrine of the Faith, and objective moral principles by those who rely on Pope Francis to support their newly- and confidently- asserted position.
Pope Francis knows what he’s doing – he’s been doing it for decades and has seen the terrible consequences, which are the natural consequences of saying and doing things against the doctrine of the Faith and morals. It is simply irrational to ascribe a well-meaning ignorance to him in respect of things so fundamental to the Faith and the nature of man.
Roberto de Mattei is a good leader. He is one of the few prominent Catholics who has not changed the Faith and objective truth to accommodate Pope Francis’s words and deeds.
Yes, and all the other saints of the Church.
Dear Lynda,
We were not disagreeing with anything you said. We just wondered if you knew of any people so infected as those we all know, who had come back to the Faith. Mostly because we’re still searching for ways to reach people like that, and the Hierarchy is working against us, for the most part.
Dear Lynda,
So right. We found this heart-breaking plea to the priest on Rorate coeli, a perfect example of why this Pope and all those in the Hierarchy with him, have got to repent or be dealt with by some authority, for the sake of the souls they are damaging:
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Dear Father,
I’m a convert from an Evangelical background. Most of my family remained Evangelical, and this has caused occasional attrition. Now, I hear continuous pronouncements that weaken my resolve in my conversion, for instance in visits to Evangelical churches in which ‘unity in diversity’, at least to me, seems to completely include Evangelicals in a new unity that is already in place. In this case, why did I go through all the trouble of converting? Should I go back?
In Christ,
Lost in Nebraska.”
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His answer outlines the Pope’s errors and tries to give her hope.
http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2014/08/dear-father-answers-for-troubled-times.html
Dear Indignus Famulus, No, I don’t know anyone personally who has recently come back to the True Faith having been led astray by the erroneous teaching of bishops, priests, religious and lay people. The disorientation has become greater and increases with ever greater speed and intensity: Motus in Fine Velocior (by Robert de Mattei).