The world deserves to know whether or not Jorge Bergoglio is a formal heretic. The time has come for the Princes of the Church to take the steps necessary to publicly challenge Pope Francis to confirm or deny the holy Catholic faith.
Robert Siscoe on the loss of the Papal office due to manifest heresy.
UPDATE: A more recent article from Robert Siscoe on how to depose a heretical pope:
Much can and should be read and written on this subject, but at this moment of “breaking news”, I would like to suggest that the following quote from the Catholic Encyclopedia (on “Religious Toleration”) may be pertinent to the matter at hand (emphases added):
“Material heresy on the other hand, i.e. an error in faith entertained undesignedly and unconsciously, is in itself neither sinful nor punishable, except where the error is itself inexcusable.”
This is devastating. If Poor Francis has only left out the first sentence,”I feel like saying something controversial – or even heretical perhaps.” That’s the statement that is very, very scary.
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Then he goes on to tell us that Islamic butchers are slaughtering us “christians” and that they don’t seem to know, or care, what particular ‘community’ we belong to.
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This is true. But the only way we can interpret what Francis says is that he means we are indeed one as Christians, and that the laugh is on the butchers – ha, ha, ha – gotcha – we ARE one!!
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The drums are getting louder. The poor man looks and sounds ill. I will NOT pray for his demise but pray that Our Lady will convert him from this destructive path. HE’S THE POPE FOR HEAVEN SAKE!!!!!!!!!!!
This Pope is learning that Our Lord came to Earth and assumed humanly form not for nothing – HE CAME TO DEMAND OUR FULL HOMAGE:
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpPm1cxy2B0
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I ask you the reader this question, has the likely heretic Jorge Bergoglio been acting as if he truly believes that Jesus Christ Our Lord is God Almighty Himself the Creator and Ruler of the Universe?
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Please pray for this poor sinner. Although due to his office he will be held to an higher standard by Our Lord the Just Judge, pray that he depart from his wicked path and proclaim the truths of the Catholic faith and publicly reject the heresy of false ecumenism.
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“The kingdom of heaven is like to an householder, who went out early in the morning to hire labourers into his vineyard.
And having agreed with the labourers for a penny a day, he sent them into his vineyard.
And going out about the third hour, he saw others standing in the market place idle.
And he said to them: Go you also into my vineyard, and I will give you what shall be just.
And they went their way. And again he went out about the sixth and the ninth hour, and did in like manner.
But about the eleventh hour he went out and found others standing, and he saith to them: Why stand you here all the day idle?
They say to him: Because no man hath hired us. He saith to them: Go you also into my vineyard.
And when evening was come, the lord of the vineyard saith to his steward: Call the labourers and pay them their hire, beginning from the last even to the first.
When therefore they were come, that came about the eleventh hour, they received every man a penny.
But when the first also came, they thought that they should receive more: and they also received every man a penny.
And receiving it they murmured against the master of the house,
Saying: These last have worked but one hour, and thou hast made them equal to us, that have borne the burden of the day and the heats.
But he answering said to one of them: Friend, I do thee no wrong: didst thou not agree with me for a penny?
Take what is thine, and go thy way: I will also give to this last even as to thee.
Or, is it not lawful for me to do what I will? is thy eye evil, because I am good?
So shall the last be first, and the first last. For many are called, but few chosen.”
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I like to believe that it is not to late for the likely heretic Jorge Bergoglio to the put his shoulder to the plow and do the work of the Lord,
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God bless Mr. V for his continuing brave witness to the Catholic faith.
If someone believes that Frances is a formal heretic then it follows that anyone who believes that could not in conscience attend a mass where Frances is prayed for as Pope in the canon of the mass. Why? A formal heretic can not be Pope. I know of Catholics who attend mass at one of the approved Tradition groups that offer the Latin mass. These Catholics do not believe that Frances is Pope ( and have not since before this weekend and the horror of the new video) yet they still attend mass where he is prayed for as Pope. Clearly this is a contradiction. If Frances is not Pope we can not attend masses where he is prayed for as Pope. Why? It would be a lie. We can not pretend to be in union with the Pope and the Bishops. Either they are heretics and schismatics or we are. Sorry no middle ground exists.
The “princes of the church” are mired in heresy themselves. They won’t call Bergoglio out.
What you are stating would be true, if the Church were to officially declare him a formal heretic. Right now, it is only a personal opinion without any juridical weight.
“Catholics” who believe that Frances is not Pope should not be receiving the sacraments from Priests or Bishops who believe,act and pray as if he is. This is common sense. Every time a “Catholic” attends a mass where Frances is prayed for as Pope and that laymen does not believe that he is Pope that laymen commits mortal sin. Common sense.
It is a lie to present oneself as in communion with a man and religion that one does not hold. The validity of the sacrament is irrelevant. The Russian Orthodox have valid sacraments and we can not go there. Catholics need to put up or shut up.
Your comment “it is only a personal opinion without any juridical weight” won’t wash at your judgment at death. If you truly believe that he is not Pope or that Vatican II taught heresy you are bound to put your body where your conscience is anything less is sin. If you are not sure you need to figure it out. Juridical arguments won’t wash with Our Lord.
Exactly!
Even the SSPX pray for the Pope and only those who are Sedevacantist do not. We continue to pray for the Pope so that through the grace of the Holy Spirit and the intercession of St Peter he may finally see the Light and begin to lead the Church in Truth.
This thing’s not gonna end this side of the Chastisement. That is, the full blown physical Chastisement as opposed to the spiritual chastisement we’re already in. It’s coming sooner or later.
Then Louie can not be right in calling him a formal heretic or the SSPX is wrong. If Frances is a formal heretic then the SSPX should not be praying for him as Pope. Common sense. A formal heretic can not be Pope. A formal heretic can not be Catholic it is impossible.
If Louie is right then we have two options as I see it Sedevacantism or Pope Benedict XVI is still Pope. This is simple either Frances is Pope, or Pope Benedict XVI is still Pope or we do not have a Pope. All three can not be true. Bottom line no layman should violate his conscience by pretending,wishing or hoping that “God will understand” I am going to just receive the sacraments anyway from the FSSP, SSPX or attend the new mass and let God sort it out.
We would not be morally culpable if we were ignorant but if you have decided that Frances is not Pope and you believe that or if you believe that he is a formal heretic or If you have declared “I solemnly reject Vatican II” ect well those positions have consequences.
What bothers me is when churchmen and laymen hold beliefs then violate their own conscience. If you believe that stop attend masses & receiving the sacraments from men who hold another religion than you do. In other words stop lying and pretending. Who could take such men seriously?
Yes, Cyprian. God bless Mr. Verrecchio for his continuing brave witness to our Catholic faith.
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Thank you, Mr. V. for this video and call for “the Princes of the Church to
take the steps necessary to publicly challenge Pope Francis to confirm or deny the holy Catholic faith.” I hope many follow you in this public challenge.
Please God!!!
Our Lady of Good Success, pray for us!
Our Lad of Fatima, pray for us!
I agree with you. (I am sad to say.)
The battle is Our Lady’s now. We must consecrate ourselves to Her, say Her Rosary, wear Her scapular, and await Her triumph.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0hDI6O-foM
Oh, ——- and one more thing ———- get the formal heretic out of the papal office.
Where do you go to mass?
You should listen more closely. Louie didn’t say Pope Francis is a formal heretic. That’s a judgment for the Church.
Louie said “Pope Frances has just this past weekend taken a giant step in judging himself a formal heretic” We can not have it both ways. If Louie is attending a SSPX mass and giving money to the SSPX then Louie needs to go to the Priest who’s mass he assists at and find out if Frances is being prayed for in the mass. If he is being prayed for as Pope and Louie thinks Frances is a formal heretic it would be a mortal sin for Louie to go to such a mass.
Louie said “Pope Frances has just this past weekend taken a giant step in judging himself a formal heretic”. Well when it comes to pregnancy a woman can not be kind of pregnant. Either a woman is pregnant or she is not. Formal heresy is much the same way. Frances can’t be “kind of” a formal heretic. He can not be half stepping when it comes to formal heresy.
Either France took the “giant step” or he did not. If Louie thinks he is a formal heretic. Louie knows he can not attend a mass where Frances is prayed for as Pope anymore than he can attend a Russian Orthodox liturgy. It is just that simple.
That statement, like so many others, is the prerequisite trial balloon of testing the loss of people’s faith. If we ignoret that, we lessen his culpability in his public heresy.
If the hierarchy are heretics would they take measures to depose a heretic? For how a new pope might be got, here’s a few scenarios:
1. Direct Divine Intervention. This scenario is found in the writings of some approved mystics.
2. The Material/Formal Thesis. This holds that should a post-Vatican II pope publicly renounce the heresies of the post-Conciliar Church, he would automatically become a true pope.
3. An Imperfect General Council. The theologian Cajetan (1469–1534) and others teach that, should the College of Cardinals become extinct, the right to elect a pope would devolve to the clergy of Rome, and then to the universal Church. (de Comparatione 13, 742, 745)
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http://www.traditionalmass.org/images/articles/TradsInfall.pdf
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The Siscoe article raises all the salient points but the conslusion remains novel in that Mr Siscoe has a valid Pope in his public heretic. Whereas the sedevacantist simply needs a valid Pope who is not a public heretic.
PS. Bergoglio has publicly stated that he feels like teaching heresy – and goes on to teach his errors on ecumenism. The heretic has warned us himself. Therefore those who accept his teachings have chosen to follow this public contemporary opponent to the Catholic Faith and I would guess makes all his followers formal heretics?
PS. “No one, whatever almsgiving he has practiced, even if he has shed blood for the name of Christ, can be saved, unless he has remained in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church.”—-“[This council] firmly believes, professes, and proclaims that those not living within the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics cannot become participants in eternal life, but will depart “into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels” [Matt. 25:41], unless before the end of life the same have been added to the flock; and that the unity of the ecclesiastical body is so strong that only to those remaining in it are the sacraments of the Church of benefit for salvation, and do fastings, almsgiving, and other functions of piety and exercises of Christian service produce eternal reward, and that no one, whatever almsgiving he has practiced, even if he has shed blood for the name of Christ, can be saved, unless he has remained in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church.” Pope Eugene IV, Council of Florence, Decree Cantate Domino.
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“The question was also raised by a Cardinal, “What is to be done with the Pope if he becomes a heretic?” It was answered that there has never been such a case (Mr Siscoe disagrees); the Council of Bishops could depose him for heresy, for from the moment he becomes a heretic he is not the head or even a member of the Church. The Church would not be, for a moment, obliged to listen to him when he begins to teach a doctrine the Church knows to be a false doctrine, and he would cease to be Pope, being deposed by God Himself. If the Pope, for instance, were to say that the belief in God is false, you would not be obliged to believe him, or if he were to deny the rest of the creed, “I believe in Christ,” etc. The supposition is injurious to the Holy Father in the very idea, but serves to show you the fullness with which the subject has been considered and the ample thought given to every possibility. If he denies any dogma of the Church held by every true believer, he is no more Pope than either you or I; and so in this respect the dogma of infallibility amounts to nothing as an article of temporal government or cover for heresy.” Abp. John B. Purcell, quoted in Rev. James J. McGovern, Life and Life Work of Pope Leo XIII 1903.
Bergoglio “The Heretic”, is hiding behind the shield of the papacy. He feels totally empowered to say anything he wants to say knowing he is surrounded by fellow heretics who insulate him from being accountable. He has already established himself as “Prince of the World” loved by everyone who hates true Catholicism. Is there anyone out there who could initiate a Catholic “grassroots” petition to formally declare him a heretic? Louie, you hit the nail on the head when you said any indictment of Bergoglio would automatically include an indictment of Vat2 and the postconciliar popes. Therein lies the problem.
Here’s an interesting thought!!
https://fromrome.wordpress.com/2015/05/22/who-is-the-false-prophet/
Dear Piokolby,
Francis was legally and validly designated and elected Pope. He is therefore legally Pope materialiter. But, he has long been a formal heretic. The instant he became a manifest, formal, pertinacious heretic, he severed himself from the soul of the church, i.e. he lost communion in the internal forum and lost membership of the church, automatically and without further declaration. (Cum Ex Apostolatus). He is no longer a Catholic and has no jurisdiction (authority/ power) of a Pope, i.e. he is not a Pope formaliter. It is not pleasing to God that we pray “in union with” a heretic, (Mortalium Animos) as the novus ordo church and SSPX do. Therefore, Sedevacantist Priests do not say the “una cum” Mass. Sedevacantists, as would any good Catholic, do pray for Bergoglio’s conversion and for the salvation of his soul as we do for all sinners, ourselves included, but we do not pray “in union with” him. Here is a very good article explaining why the “una cum” mass is not a good idea:
http://www.fathercekada.com/2014/04/01/should-i-assist-at-a-mass-that-names-pope-francis-in-the-canon/
Jorge Bergoglio was bound to have sooner or later a “slip” of the tongue flat-out admitting he doesn’t care one bit about the deposit of faith.
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Problem is, the men who make up the college of cardinals are heretics themselves.
Even Cardinal Burke (presumably) holds to the heresies of Vatican II.
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This is the end-game folks.
The sins of Sodom and Gomorrah, being widely promoted, celebrated and practiced in the world today, was the last straw before God acted in his terrible justice in those cities.
So likewise, I think those heinous sins are what will cause God to intervene soon, either via wars (WWIII?) or through some kind of supernatural chastisement.
Don’t hold your breath waiting for the cardinals to “bail us out”. ‘
Everything is in God’s hands now.
Dear Piokolby,
I can’t say I agree in detail with everything you say, but I can say I greatly admire your forthright plainspeak attitude. These days its rare to find a man who has the guts to say exactly what he thinks and calls a spade a shovel. Most people today are afraid to speak out, or dither around in circles never having the guts to take a stand. John Wayne would be proud of you. 🙂
Absolutely! Amen! Maybe 1917 – a hundred years after Fatima?
I think it is a question of reality and sanity. I can respect a man who says “I don’t know” so I don’t act. What sends a man and his intellect into wonderland is this Orwellian Catholicism. If you know you must act or you will go nuts.
The damage that is done to the intellect when a man who believes one thing and does another can not be calculated. In other words if you think he is not Pope live it.
I see flat-out schism coming. Here are some quotes from a recent speech by Cardinal Tagle. This the future planned for Catholics:
Tagle said Vatican II rediscovered the church’s understanding of mystery, mission and communion — and that, from there, “the understanding of church changed radically.”
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“Many people want to witness to Christ in some idealized past that they long for with nostalgia,” said Tagle, who spoke Friday morning at Georgetown University. “No, we witness to Christ now, here, where we are in our world.”
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“The church is being asked to retrieve its deepest identity as a communion, but a communion that is not focused on itself,” he continued. “Not self-focused, not self-referential.”
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“The church finds its true identity only in reference to Jesus and never to itself,” he said. “The church’s reference to its identity is outside of itself. The church is the pointer to Jesus, the sign of the presence of Jesus, the servant of Jesus.”
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“No human being … should be alien to the church,” said the cardinal, adding that he likes to say that the council had a “mystical, missionary amazement … of the worth of human beings.”
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“Part of the church’s openness to humanity is to remind the rest of the world of human beings that have been forgotten,” the cardinal said. “There is no true and complete openness to the world if we do not remember … those who have been forgotten.”
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“Openness to the world means getting ourselves dirty, stained, wounded by the existential realities” that the poor face, he said. “The church should smell like the world that it penetrates.”
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“Tell stories of people who have navigated through those murky waters of dilemmas,” Tagle said. “You don’t need a solution. You need meaning. You need hope.”
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“But who can tell stories?” he asked. “Only those who have entered the world of stories, who have been open to the stories of human life.”
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“We should be the living story of what we proclaim,” Tagle said. “We should be the living sign of the Jesus that we profess to believe in.”
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Sorry for the long comment, but this crap is note-worthy. Mainly because firstly this man is touted to be a candidate for the papacy (I know this is often nonsense but the media is very, very powerful), and secondly he is rehashing Poor Francis words. Thirdly much of what this man says, while ‘sounding’ so loving and inclusive, is heretical. Materially, and formally.
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Go to Holy Mass often and offer Our Lord to The Father in propitiation for the sins of the world. Pray the Holy Rosary. Fast.
We do not need any formal declaration from the Church to deem Francis a heretic (as if we’d get one anyway). Any dissent from any Catholic Truth constitutes open heresy and immediately separates one from the Catholic Church. One who is not part of the Church can obviously not be the head of it. As far as waiting for any of the Cardinals to call him to task, I personally don’t see it happening…..I seriously doubt any of us here do.
It cannot reasonably be argued that Pope Francis is not an obstinate and manifest heretic (and has been for many years before he was elected pope). The issue is that there must be a formal procedure that Catholics can rely on to know absolutely that he no longer holds office (in the exterior forum). Otherwise Catholics cannot ever know with certainty who is the Pope, and when. This is necessary for a visible Church. For it is clear to all who know the Faith that Pope Francis opposes the Deposit of Faith and God’s Laws, and therefore, that at some point in the past he became excommunicate.
I think we could see the cardinals call him to task in the false left right paradigm. We may see the fake heretical right attack the fake heretical left. I think we are going to see a simulated battle between the occupiers of the Vatican and the Bishop counsels. Trads will fall for it. It will be a hoax.
This simulated battle will be like a projection on the wall it will have all the appearances of the reality of a battle but it will really be two revolutionary factions having a fake left right fight. Like in American politics they fight in public and laugh at us in private while counting the loot. Churchmen same story.
I share your cynicism regarding this whole mess. However, I personally dont even see THAT happening.
The worrying thing is that every time this man gives an off-the-cuff interview or informal talk rather than a pre-written homily etc. (Meaning it’s what he actually thinks) there is always something worryingly un-Catholic said…
I would say actually that the devil doesn’t see us as one at all because even he knows there is only One True Church in which Christian unity is already (!) established! However, I would imagine the devil is very happy to have us believe that all forms of Christianity are the same. If they’re all the same then there”s no need for conversion, no need for the Sacraments, moral differences such as on homosexuality, contraception etc. Don’t really matter either except for some vague temporal benefit. Ecumenism and “dialogue” may have been the devil’s greatest tricks of the past 50 years.
We must pray and fast for the current Pontiff. Things seem to be coming to a head.
“The church should smell like the world that it penetrates.” (Cardinal Tagle) Blasphemy!
These people have no shame.
“It cannot reasonably be argued that Pope Francis is not an obstinate and manifest heretic (and has been for many years before he was elected pope).”
Exactly.
“Is there anyone out there who could initiate a Catholic “grassroots” petition to formally declare him a heretic?”
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The SSPX are the only group I can fathom initiating such a process in a credible fashion, with support from a large portion of the traditional catholics in the world.
Unfortunately, something tells me that Bishop Fellay (even if he is 100% committed to tradition, which I believe is the case) is no Archbishop Lefebvre.
Moreover – not all catholics would agree with such a formal indictment unless it garnered support from most of the world’s bishops which ain’t happening any time soon.
In short – we are in a huge mess.
God have mercy on us poor Catholics who have been left as it were orphans from Rome.
Dear piokolby,
With utmost respect,
your statement – “we can not attend masses where he is prayed for as Pope”–is a misrepresentation and wrong. In the Canon, the Pope is prayed TOGETHER WITH–not FOR. You repeat this wrong statement in your comment below.
I speak as a sedevacantist, (and all here know that I am ,) when I say that sedevacantists are continually praying FOR— Bergoglio. Some of us will, under no circumsatnces, assist at a Mass wherein we would pray TOGETHER WITH Bergoglio within the Canon.
St. Thomas Aquinas (STII-II:11:1) defined ‘heresy’ as : “a species of infidelity in men who, having professed the faith of Christ, corrupt its dogmas”.
“The right Christian faith consists in giving one’s voluntary assent to Christ in all that truly belongs to His teaching. There are, therefore, two ways of deviating from Christianity: the one by refusing to believe in Christ Himself, which is the way of infidelity, common to Pagans and Jews; the other by restricting belief to certain points of Christ’s doctrine selected and fashioned at pleasure, which is the way of heretics. (c.ref. The Catholic Encyclopedia)
It could happen.
If you’re so inclined, read ’til the end. Peace be to you.
http://mostholytrinityseminary.org/Explanation%20of%20the%20Thesis.pdf
Actually rich, it seems we do. The heresy disrupts the communion in the internal forum, being a sin, so the incumbent is automatically and without need of further declaration stripped of power of Office i.e. jurisdiction and membership of the Church, (i.e. no longer formaliter) but the material aspect remains intact in the external forum until the proper ecclesiastical authorities, (who bestowed it by election), remove it by formal declaration. Apparently even a single Cardinal who converted and renounced VII could force a new conclave. Please see:
Achttp://www.mostholytrinityseminary.org/Explanation%20of%20the%20Thesis.pdf
Indeed, you are right. This shouldn’t come as a surprise to anyone. When he was elected Pope I gave him the benefit of the doubt and even defended some of his actions in an attempt to be charitable but once you frame his actions in the context of him being a modernist suddenly it all starts coming together.
This article from Rorate-Caeli seems almost prophetic now:
http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.co.uk/2013/03/the-horror-buenos-aires-journalist.html?m=1
Is it possible he was elected by his fellow cardinals because he was a heretic????
There were several saints who could smell the stench of souls in mortal sin. What a very heavy cross that must have been. And now???
Yes, speaking as to his physical removal from Rome, I totally agree that we need the ecclesiastical pronouncement. By divine law of course he ceases to be part of the Church upon becoming a heretic without any need of a formal declaration.
Yes, it is possible ( errr-probable,) that he was elected bc he. like they, is a modernist, hence-a heretic.
That may be a stretch, but he was certainly elected to ‘reform’ a Church that prior to VII had no need of it.
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There were Modernists in the reigns of Pius IX, X, XI, and XII who fomented revolution and part of that is to create so-called problems, then provide a solution – that’s the demonic synthesis we hear so much about. All the lies we hear about how bad things were in the dim dark past are an example of this.
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Just wait. In October we’re going to see Kasper et al taken down a peg, but no return to true Catholic understanding of marriage – no, we’ll get a synthesis – local problem-solving provided by the bishops. This will be a real evil because no dogma will be changed but mortal sin will be the new normal – Heaven Help Us!
I’ll also be reading what you linked…thank you.
Yes. Don’t forget to think that sects which differ from each other – diametrically contradict each other can all be correct – is illogical. Basically, at heart, no question, this pope cannot think.
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I was struck watching Poor Francis that he seemed to be searching for the next phrase – certainly it seemed he had not prepared his greeting to the group he was speaking to. If that’s the case he really knew what he was saying. The pauses mean to me that he was ‘thinking’ about the next word or phrase.
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No crush of reporters, no distracting crowd noise, no rush to get anywhere. There he sat, looking directly into the camera and he comes out with: sects whose theories contradict each other are all one – this is nuts.
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Is he losing it?
Dear Lynda,
I agree with your first point entirely. See this quote provided by Dumb_ox some time ago wherein Bergoglio himself states that his homilies are to be considered magisterial :
“Jorge Bergoglio would appear to agree with the substance of this conclusion, being quoted to this effect on <ahref="http://chiesa.espresso.repubblica.it/articolo/1350935?eng=y"
Chiesa as follows (emphasis added):
“Look, I have written an encyclical and an apostolic exhortation, and I continually make declarations and give homilies, and this is magisterium“."
Nobody on this Earth could allege that a Jesuit pope could be ignorant of basic Catholic Doctrine and therefore only be a material heretic. His numerous heresies are clearly manifest, formal and pertinacious as he has repeatedly promulgated them to the Universal Church, as pope and as part of his magisterium, by his own mouth.
Your second point is also valid and you might find the link posted above to rich to be of interest.
Yes!!! By courtesy of judeo-masonry, as were his conciliar predecessors!
I don’t know about other readers on this blog, but I find it pretty worrisome that the main non-sede traditional catholic blogs are thus far remaining silent on this latest outrage from Bergoglio…
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Is Louie the only non-sede traddie on the blogosphere with the guts to call out that the Emperor indeed has no clothes?
Dear Barbara,
I think your predictions for October are absolutely spot on!
I’m puzzled as to why this has not appeared anywhere except here…or have I missed it? I don’t expect a showing of this pope’s heresy on The Vortex – no breaking news here!! But I would have thought Pewsitter would have it…
same here, I asked that question below.
Dear Hoc,
Yip! I think Louie is. At the risk of being pelted with tomatoes and being banned from the site, judging by Louie’s knowledge of Catholic Doctrine, by what he says in his videos and writes in his blog, it is only a matter of time before he converts to sedevacantism. I think the upcoming crisis will precipitate the move.
OK now I’m ducking for tomatoes. 🙂
Error the sacrifice of the mass is offered TOGETHER WITH and FOR the Pope. You get my point either way. My point is Catholics who do not believe that Frances is not Pope should not receive the sacraments from those who pray in union with him as Pope or pray for him as Pope if one thinks he is not Pope.
To be fair to what I said in the old mass it is said the sacrifice is offered “also for Thy servant Frances., our Pope, and Joseph our Bishop”. So it is not correct to suggest that the Pope and the Bishops are not prayed for or that the sacrifice is not offered for them during the mass but it is just simply offered in union with them.
I understand most sedevacantists do not think that the norvus ordo mass is valid but in the norvus ordo mass it is prayed “Lord, remember your Church throughout the world; make us grow in love together with Frances our Pope Joseph our bishop, and all the clergy” So clearly no one who thinks Frances is not Pope could attend any mass that is offered in union with his as Pope or for him as Pope.
You have not seen it anywhere because the spin doctors can’t spin this and if they admit what is manifestly obvious they will have to suffer and feel like they are on the outside the Church.
It is not easy to do what archbishop lefebvre and others have done. Many laymen can not handle being called heretics and schismatics by the apostates. It is equal to a man who looks,speaks and dresses like your Father ( but is not your Father) saying “you are not my child” Many would prefer to feel safe than to please God. This is a war between the appearances and the reality of the crisis in the Church.
Hold on sede maker. Don’t forget about Father Paul Kramer and the Resistance. Father Paul Kramer and many others believe that Frances is an anti Pope and that Pope Benedict XVI is still Pope. So as long as Pope Benedict XVI is still alive that position is also an option:
Google:
Tradcatknight
Youtube:
Father Paul Kramer frances
The things you can find on Catholic blog sites !!!
http://www.eyeofthetiber.com/2014/02/27/pope-francis-apologizes-for-prank-video-message-to-evangelicals/
You wonder if he even thinks he’s the pope and that’s why he didn’t go through with all the tradition when he was elected. This is long but so worth watching.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=i_8sIq50gsI.
If this is true or not it sure makes one think.
My friend, perhaps we are comparing apples with oranges. Within the Sacred Canon, we pray together with the pontiff, in the (Pre-1962) Traditional Latin Mass. Of those who only assist at such, there are una cum and non- una cum celebrants of same.
Granted, I’m not that bright, but I in no way understood your first paragraph.
Why do you feel it necessary to so label another commenter? Anyway, most are aware, how could one not be, of what Fr. Kramer holds. To many it is an incomprehensible head-scratcher though, since Ratzinger is a modernist.
You classify people who hold that Francis is the Pope as “Catholics”. That is if they don’t agree with your opinion, they are no longer Catholics. That is going a bit far, no?
Common sense tell us that your private opinions have no weight whatsoever to bind people that don’t agree with these opinions.
The lie isn’t there where you think. If I attend the Mass of a Catholic priest that offers the Traditional Mass, the mentioning of the man who is regarded by practically the whole Church as the Pope, does not make that Priest or that Mass un-Catholic. Show me the authoritative quote that states:
“When piokolby has decreed that the Pope is not the Pope, all are bound under pain of mortal sin and eternal damnation to follow his opinion”. Or something even remotely similar to this.
re. Russian Orthodox have been formally excommunicated from the Church. You are just confirming my argument.
What happens at our particular judgement is how our behavior conformed itself to God’s commandments; not how good of theologians we were; and how we were able to resolve these complicated questions that even the great doctors of the Church were not in agreement.
I know, right? AHhh, haha.
In answer to the question posited in the title of the video, “Is the world about to end.” the answer is NO.
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Russia has not been consecrated to Our Lady’s Immaculate Heart according to Heaven’s commands, and thus the “Pax Mariana” has still to come upon earth.
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Once the apostasy and this nightmare is over, a long period of peace awaits mankind before the end of the world (Revelation 20).
Did he ever have it to lose? A serious question because I’m certain his seminary formation must have been deficient as he doesn’t even seem to know the very basics of Catholicism.
What you say about the sects contradicting each other is very true. I’m a convert myself from protestantism precisely because I realised the Catholic Church is the only one with “doctrinal security” and the True Presence. I wouldn’t dream of apostising but frankly if I followed what the Bishop of Rome is saying here, and all the other ecumaniacs, really why should I have bothered if we’re all one anyway?
He needs prayer and fasting.
Thanks, Mr Lamb.
Yes, I read that at the time. I was heartsick when I saw how he behaved when he appeared on the balcony. Blessed Michael, the Archangel, defend us in battle.
Dear Barbara,
There is a post about it on novus ordo watch.
Typical masonic modus operandi.
I just finished reading the linked articles. AMAZING! Exquisitely clear and easy to comprehend.
Problem: it assumes that the rest of the clergy, especially the bishops and cardinals, are still doctrinally sound, so much so that it can do all that is required to dispose a heretical pope, as ought to be done to Francis. This is impossible today. You might as well have asked an Arian council to dispose an Arian pope.
I cant imagine that our current pope is so bad that he has become bad on his own or without an external influence. No, he is the way he is because everyone else around him is the same as him. Drug addicts are typically addicts because they hang out with other drug addicts. He is confirmed in his errors because those around him err equally.
The Conciliar hierarchy will never ever dispose one of its own, ie a Conciliar pope, just as a truly Catholic hierarchy would never ever dispose a truly Catholic pope. It wouldn’t make any sense to do so.
The only solution is the Great Chastisement or the coming 3 Days of Darkness. God will soon sort it out for us.
Women have basically taken over the post conciliar churches and society, and have pushed the men out and shut them up. I don’t read any opinions by women on the blogs anymore. I think that the men should stand up tall and take back their God-given authority and put women in their places of submission for the good of The Church and the saving of souls and to keep men on their long way back to leading us in their positions of authority, being inspired or led by Christ their Head – maybe men would start coming back to the Church and being warriors at heart, would be able to take back the Kingdom of God from the women and the effeminate.
Keep up the greatly needed and bold warrior battles Mr. Verrecchio!
The conciliar church is THOROUGHLY sapped of virility – that’s true enough, but think of all the women that have illuminated the Church through the ages too – Our Lady (1st and foremost), St Gertrude the Great, St Hildegard of Bingen, St Margaret Mary Alacoque, St Teresa of Avila, Ven Maria de Jesus de Agreda (author of the “Mystical City of God”), St Therese of Lisieux, St Catherine of Sienna and many more…
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Yes, men NEED to recover our virility, take the lead and take back our positions of authority, but it’s wrong to go to the other extreme and relegate women to 2nd class status…
Joshua, Fiat, IHSV, and all,
I share your desperation as to where we can find leaders inside a Church, which is currently run by post-conciliar, effeminate Cardinals and Bishops. Imagine: the history of both the Church and Western Europe abounded with secular leaders who, by the Grace of God, shook up the Church. There was Emperor Constantine who convened the First Council of Nicaea. There was Sigismund of Luxemburg, the Holy Roman Emperor who supported the Council of Constance that ended the Western Schism. Good grief, there was even warrior Robert Guiscard (Robert the Wizard), who kidnapped a really great Pope! These were real men, sinners and all! Dante, the Ghibelline that he became, even had the audacity to call such men ‘Warriors of the Faith.’ But these types of political leaders no longer exist. They’ve been wiped out entirely by our political and economic system. In their place we have a philo-muslim President, Jewish heads of central banks and bureaucratic, atheistic Western European leaders now all cowering to the homosexual/sodomite political agenda. (Even Putin, with all his sins and nastiness, will prove to be more virtuous than any current Western leader by the very fact that he has enacted laws protecting the young under his jurisdiction from homosexual propaganda!)
A resolution to this fiasco which is false ecumenism, even partially, is necessary to extirpate Catholics form this political morass. Or, it seems the only hope we have is for a catastrophic economic meltdown to bring an end to this disaster.
(Of course, there is an element of tongue in cheek here, since our faith demands us to be at peace notwithstanding “wars and the rumours of wars” , and to believe that, ‘with God anything is possible.’)
Our Mother was without sin and the other wonderful women Saints were under the authority of the Church, and what we learn from them has been filtered through their confessors and spiritual directors and they had close relationships with Our Blessed Mother or Christ Jesus or both – quite different than blog surfers.
It’s necessary to get right the meaning of effeminacy. It has nothing to do with the feminine. Neither men NOR women are called to be effeminate. Think Stabat Mater.
You speak as a tyrant. The beautiful relationship in which a woman is submissive is one in which her husband’s model is St. Joseph, her protector, provider. He loves her, cherishes her, guarding her against all harm. She knows that, trusts him, and therefore, submits to him. He does not “put her in her place.”
I’ve seen what I call “crazy eyes” many times. I used to believe that the Pope was evil, but after watching this video, it’s clear to me that he is either demented or psychotic. He definitely has “crazy eyes.”
Boys and girls is complementary! 🙂
Thanks be to God ! And for God alone.
Isis will kill anyone of any religion and none, if they do not except their beliefs ,they are killing Muslims from different branches of Islam. with regard to other Christian denominations , did Christ not say “He who is not against us is with us “when His Apostles complained about a man driving out demons in His name who was not one of their company .If Christ did not condemn him ,what right does anyone else have to do it .
Would the SSPX, however? The recognise that the Novus Ordo is not Catholic, yet adhere to the Novus Ordo hierarchy as if it was Catholic. If one can have one’s cake and eat it too there is little impetus to call out the Novus Ordo heretics.
Actually Christ said, “Whoever is not with me is against me.” (Matt 12:30)
In the story you refer to he said, “Forbid him not, for he that is not against you, is for you.” Luke 9:50 The assumption is that since the man was successful in the use of Jesus’ name, he must have been a true follower. This occurred before Jesus had established his Church, and does not in any way apply to the topic discussed here.
Dear Mr. Verrecchio, I am learning a lot from you but I humbly think you’re wrong here. The Pope may be one step from formal heresy, but you seem to be one step from Sedevacantist. As lay people we can’t expell anybody from the Church, much less the Pope. According to theologians and canonists, it must be declared to us JURIDICALLY that he is a Heretic in order for him to lose his office, otherwise he remains the Pope as far as we are concerned. I suggest you reading this article from The Remnant: remnantnewspaper.com/web/index.php/articles/item/1284-can-the-church-depose-an-heretical-pope
Hey Raderich,
If Louis is only a step away from sedevacantism, I say hooray!!!
Please read #6 of Cum Ex Apostolatus Officio. You will see that heresy automatically deposes a pope without further declaration being necessary. So he loses his authority as Pope, even though he still legally is Pope. So the legal declaration you desire is only required to legally depose him in terms of canon law, but he has long since lost his office and authority as Pope. Any formal pertinacious heretic cuts himself off from the Church and is no longer a member of the Church. Somebody who is not a member of the Mystical body cannot be its head.