BEWARE: Russia as blessed “instrument of peace”

Comments (83)

1. Nothing controversial here. I agree 100%.

2. Good article! Fatima is bigger than any one man (even Fr. Gruner)…

3. Thanks for the sensible reminder Louie.

   In truth none of us actually knows what God is going to do after the Consecration proper.

   So naturally a lot of it has led to reasonable speculation.

   Notably by drawing parallels from the conversions by Our Lady of Guadalupe, and also from the Consecration of Portugal. What was dubbed as a ‘mini-example’ of what God would do for Russia.

   It is not unreasonable to believe that a converted Russia would naturally act on behalf of the Church’s interests as her civil arm, and from which we’d get more religious vocations from men and women who were raised within the Orthodox Schismatic system that still maintained the old liturgy, which would help in the aftermath. Even as a military force, Russia would come to the aid of our persecuted brothers and sisters in the Middle East and especially in China.

   But you are right Louie in that we may be in danger of putting the cart before the horse and transferring to Russia what has always been the job of the Holy Catholic Church, whose sole duty it is to convert the nations.

   So from that standpoint it is the public demonstration by the Pope and the world’s bishops leading to the conversion of Russia, and perhaps accompanied by a similar heavenly miracle like that of the Sun at Fatima as a public undeniable proof that there is a God and that Catholicism is the true religion and God acts through His Vicar and the princes of His Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.

   It is Russia and particularly the Orthodox, before the Atheists, Protestants, Muslims, Jews and pagans, who will prove to be the most stubborn opposition to conversion. And Russia and the Orthodox are by contrast to the western world’s social and godless problems acting as the FALSE ALTERNATIVE within the whole Hegelian disorientation. Ecumenism was of the Orthodox first in getting along with the other separated orthodox before the Protestants were around. Hence why God demands the public demonstration by the Pope and Bishops in union with the Pope.

   As for Fr. Gruner’s softening of the issue, I didn’t see it as that, but rather that Fr. Gruner was making a point ‘for the sake of argument’, just as St. Robert Bellarmine did to Foscarini over the Heliocentric heresy, when he stated that presuming that scientific evidence could be produced for the movement and rotation of the Earth, then, and only then might the Church entertain that Tradition, Trent and the Fathers had not properly understood the Holy Scriptures. But after entertaining this hypothetical fantasy, Bellarmine then proceeded to state that he did not see this as being possible at all. Because naturally the Church is guided by the Holy Spirit and can could not have been led into error so unanimously and for so long.

   Thus likewise, Fr. Gruner was merely entertaining the opposition’s belief, and likewise at the end stated the truth, that it would be the Orthodox who would convert. But as the prior statement also indicated, if the collary was true, then what would the Orthodox need to be afraid of? Why not perform the Consecration? After all, don’t we all wish to know the truth?

   We can contrast this to what the Prophet Elijah did against the Prophets of Baal. He publicly called them out and challenged them, that each would come before the people and call upon their Gods to determine who was right. Elijah, for the sake of argument entertained these false prophets and their claims before the people, as they continued to fail, he even started making fun of them. Then finally he , after watering his sacrificial offering numerous times to alleviate any charges of trickery, called upon God, who answered and rained down fire from heaven to immolate the sacrifice. Then the people believed, and Elijah ordered them to seize the priests of Baal and slit their throats by the river.

   So I would not take Fr. Gruner’s statements as that of weakness to the opposition, but merely as rhetorical device.

   As for the other members, such as the author of Russian Sunrise, perhaps they might be guilty of reserved speech in order to approach Orthodox Russians to speak about the topic. I presume in charity that their intentions are good and can’t really judge what is prudent at what particular time. But let us indeed state that we cannot over-indulge in prudence any more than pastoralism.

   I’ve read Russian Sunrise. It’s an interesting book with a good collection of facts and reasoned speculation that even explores areas of proper finance, usury, government, subsidiarity etc. from Catholic morality and social teachings. But as a narrative and work of fiction, it is not very good. But it seems to me to be more the work of a speculative essay than a story. In a sense there is too much Deus Ex Machina, and the characters are practically faultless living saints. Truly one wishes such people could exist in reality, but it makes for dull literature.

   In any case to summarize…

   Russia and Vladimir Putin are significantly better in a lot of ways compared to the West, but they are still a false alternative, and all we would be doing is changing the guard with regards to a Global Government and financial system. Instead of a hegemony of U.S. control, you’ll end up with a similar structure shared by members of the BRICS and the Shanghai Cooperation.

   Russia and Vladimir Putin, despite closer association with the Russian Orthodox on social/moral issues are still firm believers of freedom of religion, separation of Church and State etc.

   The Russian Orthodox and Vladimir Putin themselves believe that they share more in common with Islam than they do the Catholic Church due to their cultural history together.

   Russia has no plans to challenge or convert moderate Islamic nations, nor the Chinese, who while not the level of ISIS, still persecute Christians and seek to keep the Catholic Church firmly away and underground. It seems to me then that Russia’s speaking out about crimes against Christians is more for propagandistic effect considering that ISIS is a creation of the United States CIA and supported by Canada, France, Israel and the UK who funded and trained them. Israel also looks after these Jihadis in hospitals and sends them back to the front lines again.

   Russian Orthodoxy is a schismatic sect from the true Church. Period. And what do you know? Francis is likely their biggest fan considering he’s trying to make the Church like the Orthodox with open adultery and reception of the sacraments, decentralizing the Church away from the Papacy, and coddling up to secular governments to champion their political and social causes under their lead.

   In many ways, our envy of leaders like Putin and of those things the Russian Orthodox has preserved in terms of liturgy etc. is completely understandable. And in some ways to argue that God’s providence might make use of these things is compatible with our faith; in that God can make lemonade wine out of lemons even if it was never His will that lemons should grow amongst His vineyard, until they are converted fully to grapes by the caretakers of His vineyard that He’s charged with certain duties to extract all the lemons and replant the soil with good seed.

   People need to pay attention to make certain we separate our speculative ideas from the facts in order not to propagate false notions.

   But notice how all of this could’ve been alleviated long ago out of simple obedience to God. We are more complicated disorientated and separated and divided today due to our negligence and stupidity. Now the garden is overrun with weeds choking us, and it’ll take bloody cut and burning hands to uproot all of it.

4. Wow, I have to read this again and actually study it. Three things which I would like to point out. 1 Father Kramer seems to be saying something similar as he says that
   President Valadamere Putin is The “Great Monarch” as prophesied by many Prophets.
   2. Bishop Bernard Fellay of the Neo SSPX has completely joined the Fatima Center and will be going to Moscow with them. 3 If it is just a speculation I don’t fault Father Gruner since it is hard to look at the west and the Vatican and see any hope. Just a couple of thoughts but as I said I want to read it again and follow up on the sources.
   Thanks Louie for all your research!

5. Thank you for the excellent research, Louie.
   What you have written is clearly the truth and you have presented it meticulously.

6. Malachi Martin held the same theory at least as early as 1991 (“Salvation’s going to come from the east. And it’s not going to come because Mr. Gorbachev becomes a Christian or puts a crease in his trousers and adopts capitalism. … It’s going to come because she has chosen Russia as the place to operate the first great change, and it will teach the world.” – https://youtu.be/A-7_VbrvPoo?t=2315) There’s another version of it, which I recall Fr. Gruner presenting at other times. Russia, having been converted, uses its considerable resources to exert pressure on the rest of the world, either militarily or through more peaceful means, to stop the expansion of the west’s atheistic empire and perhaps even to force it to reverse certain antichristian policies domestically, similar to how the UN and IMF have been pressuring poor nations into legalizing abortion and gay marriage. This would set the stage geopolitically for the Church to then get on with the business of reevangelizing the world, bringing about the promised time of peace. Being the first to convert, Russia would serve as a model for how a Catholic nation might organize itself politically, and perhaps the prosperity they would likely enjoy as a result of their newfound virtue would serve as a beacon of sorts, providing a worldly incentive to those on the fence about adopting similar policies.

   I think that’s what Fr. Gruner really had in mind, or something like it. He just didn’t always go into detail when he brought it up. I suppose it’s such a popular theory that some have forgotten it’s just a theory, not an explicit part of the promise.

7. It’s the Catholic Church that needs converting! Let us not forget Bella Dodd. The “Catholic” Church is under the control of Masons and Communists. Why would they want to convert Communist Russia? Thank you, Louie, for your hard work and clarity on this most important, but difficult topic.

8. Good article. Mr Walters, like all true devotees/defenders/excuse makers of the NO religion help lead souls to hell (whether knowingly or unknowingly ((unless they are truly mentally incapacitatet)) wont matter as willful ignorance can never be an excuse for evil actions).

   Fr Gruner actually supported this heretic?

9. Well, I dont believe that any vatican 2 cleric (fake priest all the way up to fake pope) can do anything regarding our Faith, so the idea that Russia can still be converted by these anti-Catholics is actually amusing. If I knew that Bergoglio was set to visit the town where I live Id rent a hotel room in another town until he was gone. The thought of even being in the same town as he was would make me physically ill.

10. Thank you Louie for explaining what at least I have always taken to be the correct understanding of our Lady’s words. I have been quite confused by all this talk about Russia being blessed, etc., etc. and it just never sat right with me at all. I am just a nobody who doesn’t understand much because being as unlearned as I am (simple housewife and born and raised NO until about 3 years ago) I always held this exact interpretation and couldn’t figure out how other, more learned and influential people came to that conclusion. Every time I read your articles, I am always at peace because it seems everything I am thinking and discerning ends up being confirmed in what I read on your site. I take great satisfaction in knowing that the conclusions I come to are in agreement with such a learned, holy (and yes I do believe you are holy) person. May our Jesus Bless you and your family and May our Lady keep you all sheltered within her loving mantle!

11. Your analysis seems spot on, Louie. Distressing to hear Bishop Fellay is endorsing the convoluted interpretation.

12. What happened to the holy fear of God in many of these “traditional catholic” voices? “But he that shall scandalize one of these little ones that believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone should be hanged about his neck, and that he should be drowned in the depth of the sea.” Matthew 18:6. That’s a big risk some people seem to be taking by projecting their own desires or ideas on to Our Lady’s message. I would be far more cautious, thorough in my research and prayerful, as Louie has shown himself to be, were I a leading, or even nominal voice in what has erupted into a “debate” about Our Lady’s message from Fatima. Souls are on the line.

13. Also, and some people may disagree, but it seems like we have a lot of problem solvers trying to accomplish tasks above their pay grade, though I have no doubt that they are doing it for love of Christ and concern for souls. It seems to me that we have an epidemic of our Cardinals and Bishops, which began before V2, that had/have a serious deficit of faith. Some before entering the priesthood, others lost it later, but for these men to be acting as they are, and not acting, in such a clear crisis, they are lacking in varying degrees of faith&belief in truths/doctrine that requires supernatural faith. God is allowing this, I do not presume to fully understand his reason. Nothing can give anyone the gift of supernatural faith but God. We don’t have to get into the nitty gritty of the technical details, the bottom line is we can do things until we are blue in the face, but God must remedy their deficits of faith, we cannot on our own. We can cooperate with divine providence through our petitions in prayer, fasting, offering masses, mortification and offerings, reparations, but that is largely the extent of our abilities on that front. These men should have been exposed to the full truth of our faith. On the other hand, so many of the lay faithful have been confused, misled, denied truth and they need to be informed, many do not have sufficient information and don’t even know they don’t have it. I was one of those people until God opened the door to pre-Vatican 2 writings and I started discovering inconsistencies and I started digging for the full truth for the last 3 years (inconsistencies which I would never probably have been able to discern on my own without having fortunately been led to law school beforehand to learn logical reasoning). Informing the faithful is critical, but seeking to find human actions and strategies to get around the fundamental deficits of faith in our leaders is perhaps bordering on pridefulness or slipping down the slippery slope of trust in divine providence.

14. The fall of Communism was a fraud from it’s inception .The Russian economy was failing , like Cuba’s , like Venezuela’s and so on. In exchange for cutting their satellite nations free, Gorby was offered the chance for Russia to become a player in the global free trade market and jump into international politics with his Green Cross.
    I know , I was there with Russian defectors who, were suddenly allowed back in for visits and they brought all kinds of goods with them. Before this the shelves were empty and afterwards you still stood in bread lines.
    We all knew the truth and the BIG lie of Perestroika !
    You think they are converting to Catholicism? Why do you think only Opus Dei was aloud into Moscow Diocese? My own dearly deceased priest friend, an Eastern Rite priest actually built the first Catholic parish in Siberia…..BUT because so many were coming the Russian Orthodox Bishop got him booted out. later an RC priest took over the parish. the Russian Orthodox actually could care less about the NO Catholic Mass. They know their people will only frequent the Divine liturgy of Sts Chrysostom and Basil . They do not was Byzantine Catholic Churches in Russia .
    The Nervous Ordo is NOT considered a threat and the Latin Mass is not even considered Traditional in Russia. Read this….we all knew the truth
    https://www.henrymakow.com/ballet_-_memories_of_russian_j.html

15. Apologies for the typos, too bleary eyed to edit them tonight. Please read the link I posted above and read the comments too. Real Russian Orthodox Believers know what Krill and Putin really are . Just as we know what Borgoglio really is.
    know this…..Roman Catholics who resisted communism in the Baltic states and in Hungary also knew and were helped by Believers among the Russian Orthodox who had their own underground churches.This secret nun in Lithuania along with good Catholic priests wrote the Chronicles of the Church in Lithuania which was delivered to the Vatican . She was here in the nineties and told Catholics in Lithuanian parishes that Gorbachev was more evil and dangerous than Stalin and Lenin combined.
    http://www.lituanus.org/1988/88_2_04.htm
    ” Sadūnaitė endured years of torture, strategies to break her spirit, and relentless interrogations designed to psychologically reduce her strength. Her single means of defending herself was through her unquestionable faith in God, a weapon which still has not been matched by the KGB.

    When Sadūnaitė completed her sentence in 1980, she began writing about her experiences in Siberia, and the events that led her to the concentration camps. The KGB had warned Sadūnaitė that if she wrote about her struggles, she would go back to Siberia. She soon went into hiding. As revenge against Sadūnaitė, the KGB began harassing her brother, who was brought to a psychiatric hospital under trumped up charges. The Soviet Union’s mental institutions are notorious for their brutal treatments designed to “recondition” its patients. ”
    “An `Underground Nun’ in Lithuania. Nijole Sadunaite works for religious freedom, and views Gorbachev with skepticism. INTERVIEW: SOVIET DISSIDENT ”
    “Skepticism” was a mild word. She said he was pure evil.
    “Soviet power is basically Stalinist,” she says, referring to the now-discredited Soviet leader who perfected the police-state reign of terror. “They’re all Stalinist, beginning with Lenin and ending with Gorbachev.”
    https://www.csmonitor.com/1989/0424/pjole.html

16. Possibly there is no contradiction in these two positions (that the Church Militant is the unique instrument of peace in this world, and that God has chosen Russia for an instrumental role in ushering in the Triumph of the Immaculate Heart of Mary). Consider the context, given that the Consecration of Russia has already been so long delayed since the moment of Heaven’s request in 1929, and we seem at present to be farther away than ever from the fulfillment of this request. The Third-Secret Vision depicted the seat of the Church in ruins and filled with corpses, and Our Lady spoke explicitly of a coming thorough, inescapable persecution of the faithful: “The good will be martyred.” If it is at such a late point that Russia is at last consecrated — and thereby converted en masse — it will be the Church Militant.

17. Father Gruner DID have his blind spots:
    https://akacatholic.com/topic/father-gruner-and-bayside/

18. Louie I have to hand it to you, I never looked at Fr Gruners explanation of Russia being chosen as a blessing as being anything other than a way to soften the blow that Russia itself would be the instrument of such devastation throughout the world, something akin to a parent trying to soften the pain of their child from the harsh reality of the outcome of the child’s bad behavior. I certainly never took it for more that that and I for one never delved into where that suggestion could take us. Apparently it is taking us exactly where you have stated. I do believe dear Fr Gruner was worn out from years of sacrifice and rightfully so. May Our Lady of Fatima beg Her Divine Son for Grace and Mercy for the Church and the world as the hour is very late.

19. All of this confusion is happening precicely because there is NO POPE.

20. The V2 NO pseudo-church is spreading more errors than Russia and must be converted to the Holy Roman Catholic Church established by Our Lord. How can we get Modernist Rome consecrated to Mary’s Immaculate Heart? Speaking of the consecration of Russia by this fake “church” is almost laughable if it weren’t so tragic.

21. Louie: “what is the danger in spreading the idea that Russia has been singled out as more blessed in order to serve as an instrument of peace?”
    .
    JPeters: I think that is a distortion of what Fr. Gruner meant. Like all other countries today, Russia is drenched in the blood of the innocent and extremely guilty before God. Fr. Gruner never denied that. The land of Russia also has the special “privilege” of being the location from which Satan chose to spread the errors of Communism throughout the world. Fr. Gruner was well aware of that too, and never denied it.
    .
    That being said, there is nothing wrong with saying Russia is “blessed” in the sense that God has willed, from all eternity, to convert it, in a miraculous way, in order to help to establish devotion to the Immaculate Heart of Mary which will bring about an era of peace. That is the reason Russia is blessed and that is clearly what Fr. Gruner meant.
    .
    How is Russia an instrument of peace? The miraculous conversion of Russia will be used by God as a secondary cause to spread devotion to the Immaculate Heart, which is what will bring peace to the world. Being used by God as a secondary cause is the sense in which it can be referred to as an instrument of peace.
    .
    Louie mentioned consulting all three volumes of The Whole Truth about Fatima, by Frère Michel de la Sainte Trinité, before writing his article. Here is what Frere Michel wrote on page 478. He is commenting on Matthew 12:18-21:
    .
    Frère Michel: “Do not these words remind us today of this poor nation, Russia, a schismatic nation which persecutes the Church but is still Christian? For God does not want to abandon it to perdition, but to make it, on the contrary, “A VESSEL OF MERCY” by raising it up again and enkindling its flame once more in the household of Roman unity, for the universal triumph of the Immaculate Heart of Mary.”
    .
    Fr.Kramer also called Russia “a vessel of God’s mercy”. Here is what he wrote in The Fatima Crusader:
    .
    Fr. Kramer: “God has special plans for Russia. He has, according to the inscrutable designs of His Providence, chosen Russia for Himself, and therefore He has commanded that Russia be consecrated to Himself through the Immaculate Heart of Mary. … There may be other apostate and sinful nations, but God, in virtue of divine predilection, HAS DECREED THAT RUSSIA BECOME THE VESSEL OF HIS MERCY.
    .
    Louie: “The primary stated purpose of the requested consecration, according to Our Lady, was to effect that nation’s “conversion;” i.e., its return (or turn as the case may be) to God. Her words are very plain; THE CONSECRATION IS NOT ORDERED TOWARD ANOINTING THAT NATION (LIKE KING DAVID) FOR A SPECIAL MISSION.
    .
    JPeters: Fr. Kramer disagrees. In fact, he explicitly compares the consecration of Russia to the anointing of David. Here is what he wrote in the same Fatima Crusader article. It comes right after he called Russia “a vessel of God’s mercy”:
    .
    Fr. Kramer: “AS WAS THE CASE WHEN DAVID WAS SINGLED OUT FROM AMONG HIS BRETHREN TO BE THE RECIPIENT OF A SINGULAR AND EXTRAORDINARY GRACE, and consequently David alone was anointed: LIKEWISE God has revealed through the message of Fatima, that RUSSIA, IN A VERY PARTICULAR WAY, HAS BEEN SINGLED OUT BY GOD FOR A DIVINE PURPOSE, and therefore he has commanded that Russia in particular be specially consecrated to the Immaculate Heart of Mary.”
    .
    JPeters: The land of Russia was chosen by Satan to spread the errors of Communism throughout the world, and it has also been chosen by God to help establish devotion to the Immaculate Heart of Mary following its conversion to the true Faith. Just as Russia can be called an “instrument of evil” in the first sense, so too can it be called an “instrument of peace” or a “vessel of God’s mercy” in the second sense. This is all Fr. Gruner meant.
    .
    Louie: “those who recklessly applauded Cardinal Burke’s convoluted call for the consecration WHILE IGNORING TOTALLY HIS PROMOTION OF THE VERY ERRORS ABOUT WHICH OUR LADY FOREWARNED.”
    .
    JPeters: The errors Our Lady warned about were those of Communism. Accusing Cardinal Burke of spreading the errors of Communism is a very serious charge for which you will have to render an account on judgment day.
    .
    Since you made the public accusation, you have an obligation to demonstrate how Cardinal Burke is promoting “the very errors about which Our Lady forewarned” (Communism) or else retract your statement and issue a public apology.

22. Let’s not fail to mention the cultural Marxism that has been infecting our society since the Cold War. It has played a large role in the unraveling of American culture and society.

    To quote Milo Yiannopoulos, “what’s really shocking is that a poor sinner like me has spoken out more on contraception than 99% of our bishops, who seem too preoccupied with diversity and climate change to talk about God.”

    The only question I have is, what happens next? When will God intervene to stop all of this madness? All indications show 2017, but October 13th is here and gone. Could the Purple Revolution start the downward madness and “annihilation of nations” as foretold at Fatima?

23. Cardinal Burke? Give us a break ! This is the capa magna Cardinal who gave permission to a transgendered man to start a religious Order of women when he was Bishop of Madison, Wisconsin ! He was informed he was a transgender and he did not care. So the parishioner who waited for a response informed the Papal Nuncio. According to her this resulted in the then Bishop Burke blackballing her name in every parish as a persona non grata.
    How very Catholic of him and it speaks volumes about his discernment.
    “Julie Green is living a lie!” writes Mary Therese Helmueller in an October 25, 2002, letter to Archbishop Gabriel Montalvo, Papal Nuncio to the United States. “[She] is a transsexual, a biological male. He is really Joel Green, who had a sex operation to make him physically appear as a woman…. I fear that The Church in America will suffer another ‘sex scandal’ if Julie Green continues to be recognized as a Catholic Religious Sister, and if Bishop Raymond L. Burke receives his final vows, as a religious sister, on November 23rd, 2002.”
    Montalvo forwarded the letter to Burke, who on November 20, 2002, replied to Helmueller. “With regard to Sister Julie Green, F.S.J., the recognition of the association of the faithful which she and Sister Anne LeBlanc founded was granted only after consultation with the Holy See,” he writes. “These are matters which are confidential and do not admit of any further comment…. I can assure you that Sister Julie Green in no way espouses a sex change operation as right or good. In fact, she holds it to be seriously disordered. Therefore, I caution you very much about the rash judgments which you made in your letter to the Apostolic Nuncio.”
    Adds Burke: “I express my surprise that, when you had questions about Sister Julie Green, you did not, in accord with the teaching of our Lord, address the matter to me directly.”
    ” Green and the Franciscan Servants weren’t the only controversial religious order with which Burke allied himself. In the late 1990s, the bishop combined the parishes of St. Mary and St. James in Wausau, Wisconsin. The two parishes formed the Resurrection Parish at what was formerly St. James’ Parish.
    St. Mary’s was sold. Burke then asked the conservative Latin-rite religious order, Institute of Christ the King Sovereign Priest, to perform the Tridentine Mass at what was formerly St. Mary’s. In February 2002, the order’s superior, Monsignor Timothy Svea, pleaded guilty to exposing himself to and molesting teenage boys. ”
    https://callmejorgebergoglio.blogspot.com/2015/10/good-news-bruce-jenner-cardinal-burke.html

24. I am pleased beyond words that you have had the guts, the intellect and most of all charity to point out the glaring blind spots and errors of certain advocates for Fatima- REGARDLESS of whatever intent they may have had.

    You’ve done well here, Louie. People need the truth even when it is hard to take. God be praised.

    HN

25. There is no doubt that the enemies of the Christ have found their ways into highly influential positions in the Church. We need to be aware of the current push within the Vatican to endorse the latest power-grab by Marxists at the United Nations. Pray for President Trump !!!

26. Allegedly, the more recent Lucia who is now deceased, said Our Lady never stated Russia would be converted t Catholicism but would re embrace it’s Christian Orthodox roots.
    That they are doing , aside from the communists who still are alive , infiltrating and well in Russia. Think about it. This is why True Believers both Catholic and Orthodox suffered and were martyred for their Faith under communism and still do under Isis, the Communist Chinese , the communist Cuban dictatorship and elsewhere.
    This is how and why True Believing Catholics are suffering under the modernist aka communist regime in the Church HERE and elsewhere.
    ( Don’t believe me just look at communist art ,statues and buildings)
    Stop making communism just a focus of and for Catholicism.
    The Catholic nun I referred to above said there were Orthodox who were martyred and resisted the regime in soviet countries who , believing as much as Catholics, helped each other. Okay so they do not consider the Pope their sole authority , but do we now?

    Is Borgoglio YOUR Pope? I would point out this is much the same as happened over a thousand years ago.
    The Orthodox believe in the Ever Virgin all Pure Mother of God and always have. They did not buy into the Immaculate Conception ‘Dogma” because declaring Dogma for them is Scriptural. The same with Original Sin which they refer to as the “Fall”. As Catholics we were taught we have an indelible mark on out soul removed through Baptism, as Orthodox they believe Baptism means initiation into Christianity.
    Also transubstantiation ,which for the Orthodox is a “mystery” .They do not try to “rationalize” it for the Faithful by giving it a name.
    Being Eastern Catholic ,we understand the differences that Roman Catholics do not. Many also see parallels happening now ,to the Great and sorrowful Schism.

    Communists target all peoples who Believe Jesus Christ is God as the Second Person of the Holy Trinity who was born of the Virgin Mary , suffered, died and arose again and ascended into heaven for our salvation and the salvation of souls in
    the whole world.
    Marxist communists fear Roman Catholicism because it is a global in power and influence. Sadly the time is late . Communism is well entrenched in the Church.
    One tell tale atheistic communist sign is the fact that Scripture is being redesigned to be all inclusive and dogmatic doctrinal truths are being dropped or redefined, as with the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah being that of in-hospitality or Romans 1 , which condemns aberrant sexual practice.

    Pray Her Rosary daily and leave the church’s legalisms to Our Holy Mother to sort out. She has to take care of the communists running around in the Vatican and in the Diocese’ all over the world now. We have zero power except though prayer and the donation baskets.

27. JPeters, you idiot.

    First let’s remind everyone that you are the kind of person who deceitfully misquoted the Mother of God in the previous article by Cornelia Ferreira to deliberately remove any mention of the necessity for bishops in union with the Pope to perform the Consecration in order to defend an ecumenical consecration with the schismatic Russian Orthodox.

    Now you are deceitfully misquoting Louie out of context.

    The first quote from Louie is not anything about signling out what Fr. Gruner specifically said but Louie is referring to the overall climate and false impression that a host of people have, including a deceitful person like you JPeters, that Russia is a source of blessing PRE-CONSECRATION, when everything the Queen of Heaven and Sr. Lucia state indicates that PRE-CONSECRATION it is a vessel of chastisement.

    Therefore we should NOT BE DEPENDING ON RUSSIA to solve the world’s problems, when that ROLE BELONGS TO THE CATHOLIC CHURCH FIRST AND FOREMOST TO BRING ABOUT PEACE – THE TRUE PEACE OF JESUS CHRIST.

    And when Louie mentioned that he looked through the works of Frère Michel, is was NOT LOOKING FOR Frère Michel’s or Fr. Kramer’s interpretations or opinions, he was specifically looking for direct quotations from the Queen of Heaven or Sr. Lucia that would suggest that Russia is what people are making it out to be.

    Louie is not arguing that Russia isn’t ‘special’ in some way, because obviously attention has been called to that nation under a specific request singling it out for a particular purpose.

    But the danger is that certain people are already moving as if Russia – RUSSIA TODAY IN THE YEAR 2017 – is somehow going to be a blessing by encouraging it to act on its own, or of requiring Russia or the Russian Orthodox’s permission or help in getting the Consecration done. The reality is that Russia and the Russian Orthodox are IRRELEVANT to getting the Consecration done, and that job has always been and solely remains in the hands of the True Pope and the Holy Catholic Church. PERIOD.

    The blessings do NOT COME FROM RUSSIA. The blessings come from CHRIST and they come from CHRIST THROUGH HIS CHURCH UNDER THE DIRECT ACTION OF THE POPE AND THE WORLD’S BISHOPS.

    And again we find JPeters deceitfully ignoring what others have already repeatedly corrected him about – namely that Russia’s sins and errors are only concerned with Communism, when Russia was already a sinful nation and in error PRIOR TO THE COMMUNIST REVOLUTION, OF WHICH COMMUNISM RESULTED FROM THAT CHIEF ERROR – SCHISM FROM THE HOLY CATHOLIC CHURCH. From which Communism was a punishment, and an error born from error. Hence the demonstration God requests from the Pope and those Bishops in union with him. Hence the requirement of CONVERSION. To what? American Democracy??? Because remember, when our Lady came to Sr. Lucia, Russia wasn’t Communist yet! And reparation was to be made for Russia’s SINS.

    Here is the real quote that JPeters went out of his way to distort:

    “The moment has come when God asks the Holy
    Father to make, in union with all the bishops of
    the world, the Consecration of RUSSIA to My
    Immaculate Heart, promising to save it by this
    means. So numerous are the souls which the justice
    of God condemns for the sins committed against
    Me, that I come to ask you for reparation. Sacrifice
    yourself for this intention and pray.”
    – Our Lady of Fatima to Sister Lucy

    The Consecration rewuires the Pope and Bishops in UNION with him, and is an act of reparation. Our Lady forewarned Lucia ahead of time that she would come later in 1929 to formally request this. The revolution began in small steps from March 1917 and finalized in October 1917. The Apparitions of Fatima began in May 1917 and ended in October 1917 with the miracle.

    “Many times the Most Holy Virgin
    told my cousins Francisco and
    Jacinta, as well as myself, that
    many nations will disappear from
    the face of the earth. She said that
    Russia will be the instrument of
    chastisement chosen by Heaven
    to punish the whole world if we
    do not beforehand obtain the
    conversion of that poor nation..”
    – Sr. Lucia

    If the conversion was only about the sins of Communism, then rejoice! We’re all saved, because Russia now practices democracy! It has converted to Democracy!!! This is what JPeters wants us to believe because he like Cardinal Burke have no problem letting the schismatic Orthodox join in! Because Our Lady only spoke about Communism???? So it wasn’t about conversion to the full Holy Catholic Faith??? JPeters in his zeal to protect certain conservative Cardinals, despite whatever amount of good they do or try to do with good intentions, doesn’t know what he’s talking about and thus he is led into defending absurdities.

    John Vennari writing for the Fatima Center in ‘THE REVELATIONS
    of the Holy Face of Jesus’ put the whole thing in context, which JPeters distorts –

    ——

    “Our Lord’s Revelations to Sister Marie de Saint-Pierre, and
    Our Lady’s Message at Fatima both warn of the dangers of Communism,
    though Our Lady never mentioned Communism by name.

    In 1847, Our Lord warned of the Communists saying they are the
    “enemies of the Church and of her Christ,” and told Sister Saint-Pierre
    to offer the instruments of His Passion to defeat the Communists.

    Our Lord also told Sister Saint-Pierre that as a chastisement for the
    sins of mankind, “He would use not the elements, ‘but the malice of
    revolutionary men.’” And “revolutionary men” is simply another name
    for Freemasonry, Communism, or those whom Father Denis Fahey called “The Forces of Organized Naturalism.”

    Seventy years later, in 1917, Our Lady warned that if Her simple
    requests were not heeded, “Russia would spread her errors throughout
    the world, provoking wars and persecutions against the Church.” These
    “errors of Russia” are not simply Communism, but also the atheistic
    errors of secular humanism, socialism and religious indifference that are
    contained within Communism.

    Thus, both Fatima and the messages to Sister Saint-Pierre threaten as
    chastisement the scourge of “revolutionary men.”

    Third: In the 1840s, Our Lord told Sister Marie de Saint-Pierre to make
    reparation for sins against the first three Commandments, especially for
    the sin of blasphemy.

    And what do we find in the message of Fatima? We find Our Lord
    asking Sister Lucy for special reparation for sins of blasphemy. But this
    time it is not only blasphemy against the Holy Name of God, which is
    bad enough, but is specifically regarding the five blasphemies against
    the Immaculate Heart of Mary. Heaven then asked for the Five First
    Saturdays in reparation for these sins.

    Our Lord explained to Sister Lucy on May 29, 1930:

    “There are five types of offenses and blasphemies committed
    against the Immaculate Heart of Mary:

    1. Blasphemies against the Immaculate Conception;
    2. Blasphemies against Her Perpetual Virginity;
    3. Blasphemies against Her Divine Maternity, in refusing at the
    same time to recognize Her as the Mother of Men;
    6. The blasphemies of those who publicly seek to sow in the
    hearts of children indifference or scorn or even hatred of this
    Immaculate Mother;
    7. The offenses of those who outrage Her directly in Her Holy
    Images.”

    And here’s a crucial point about these Five Blasphemies against Our
    Lady. We see that they come from not only atheistic or godless men.
    Rather, these Five Blasphemies are, in a way, constitutive elements of
    all non-Catholic religions. It is the “doctrinal blasphemy” spoken of by
    Father Janvier.

    For example:

    The Russian Orthodox do not uniformly believe in the Immaculate
    Conception.

    Most Protestants refuse to believe in Our Lady’s Perpetual Virginity,
    nor do they recognize Her as Mother of Men.

    Most Protestants sow in the hearts of their children indifference to Our
    Lady, and teach them not to honor Her images.

    Of course, Mohammedans, Jews, Hindus, and Buddhists reject the
    truths of Our Lady’s Immaculate Conception, Her Perpetual Virginity,
    Her Divine Maternity, honoring Her Holy Images. None of these religions
    recognize Her as Mother of all men. And they sow this disbelief into the
    hearts of their children.

    These blasphemies against Our Lady flow from false religions.
    And, as mentioned earlier, false religions are a sin against the First
    Commandment, which is one of the three Commandments that Our Lord
    has specifically mentioned to Sister Marie de Saint-Pierre as deserving
    particular chastisement of our time.

    This, of course, is another reason why ecumenical coziness between
    Catholics and false religions makes no sense. Especially since today’s
    practice of ecumenism “dialogues” with these false religions rather than
    trying to convert them to the one true Church of Jesus Christ, the Catholic
    Church, outside of which there is no salvation. It leaves members of these
    false creeds content in their doctrinal blasphemy against Our Lady.

    The revelations to Sister Marie de Saint-Pierre and at Fatima did not
    ask for inter-religious gatherings. Rather, Our Lord and Our Lady told us
    to get on our knees and make reparation for these sins against Faith, these
    sins against the First Commandment, and, in, the light of Fatima, these
    sins of heresy that produce the five blasphemies against the Immaculate
    Heart of Mary, that were enunciated to Sister Lucy by Our Lord at Tuy
    on May 29, 1930.

    —————————–

    So John Vennari of course would be on Louie’s side against the idea of making ecumenical madness out of Fatima and the Consecration! And it looks as though God is also of the same thought as revealed to His seers through His Holy Mother.

    But JPeters is only focused on ‘Communism’ ignoring every other context as if all that was just an ‘aside’ and unimportant and unrelated to Russia’s SINS AND ERRORS.

    JPeters, first let’s hear you retract your deliberate distorting of Our Lady’s words you had to have deliberately misquoted in order to attack Ms. Ferreira and defend Burke’s call for an ecumenical consecration.

    Please publicly apologize first to the Mother of God, then to everyone else for ever daring to commit such as act in order to deceive.

28. Only saints or madmen speak with such certainty when waters are murky. Which are sedevacantists?

29. No doubt about cultural Marxism. But approvingly following sodomite degenerates like Milo, who recently bragged yet again about committing unspeakable acts with his new black “husband,” is itself a product of cultural Marxism. Related, I’m fairly convinced that Milo is a leftist mole operating to discredit the Alt-Right (even though he’s merely Alt-Lite).

    Related, see:

    Yes, Virginia (Dare) There Is A Cultural Marxism–And It’s Taking Over Conservatism Inc.
    http://www.vdare.com/articles/yes-virginia-dare-there-is-a-cultural-marxism-and-its-taking-over-conservatism-inc

30. Also see:

    Cultural Marxism: the Poison Killing Us
    https://youtu.be/Cw7WYRkjWrk

31. Johnno: “JPeters, you idiot. First let’s remind everyone that you are the kind of person who deceitfully misquoted the Mother of God in the previous article by Cornelia Ferreira to deliberately remove any mention of THE NECESSITY FOR BISHOPS IN UNION with the Pope to perform the Consecration in order to defend an ecumenical consecration with the schismatic Russian Orthodox.”
    .
    I didn’t misquote anything. It was you who did so.
    .
    You claimed, over and over again, that our Lady said ONLY the bishops who are “in union with the pope” could take part on the consecration. You then asked: “Unless the Russian Orthodox have suddenly converted prior to the consecration and accept the Pope as their head, HOW CAN THEY BE CONSIDERED BISHOPS IN UNION WITH THE POPE?”
    .
    As I pointed out then, Our Lady never said only the bishops “in union with the pope” can participate in the Consecration. What she said is that she wanted the Pope IN UNION WITH ALL THE BISHOPS OF THE WORLD to take part in the consecration. In context, the phrase “in union with” clearly means “together with”. She said she wants the Pope in union with (i.e. together with) all the bishops of the world to take part in the consecration. She never said, as you did, that only the bishops in (juridical) union with the Pope are permitted to take part (at least not in any quotation I have seen). Here is the full quote:
    .
    “The moment has come when God asks the Holy Father to make, IN UNION WITH (i.e. together with) ALL THE BISHOPS OF THE WORLD, the consecration of Russia to My Immaculate Heart, promising to save it by this means. So numerous are the souls which the justice of God condemns for sins committed against Me, that I come to ask for reparation. Sacrifice yourself for this intention and pray.”
    .
    The context shows that it was you, not me, who misinterpreted what she said. You then provided a different translation, which says:
    .
    “The moment has come in which God asks the Holy Father to make, and to order that IN UNION WITH HIM AND AT THE SAME TIME, all the bishops of the world make the consecration of Russia to My Immaculate Heart” (Frère Michel, The Whole Truth About Fatima, vol. II, p. 555).
    .
    That quote doesn’t help your case in the least. In fact, it only confirms that the phrase “in union with” means “together with” since she added “and at the same time”. She wants the Pope to perform the consecration “in union with all the bishops of the world,” and she wants them all to do it at the same time.
    .
    My point was that there is nothing in this request that suggests the bishops of Russia are forbidden to take part.
    .
    By misinterpreting the phrase “in union with” to justify your objection to the Russian bishops taking part in the consecration, it was you who “deceitfully misquoted the Mother of God in the previous article by Cornelia Ferreira,” not me.

32. Johnno: “The first quote from Louie is not anything about signling out what Fr. Gruner specifically said but Louie is referring to the overall climate and false impression that a host of people have, INCLUDING A DECEITFUL PERSON LIKE YOU JPETERS, THAT RUSSIA IS A SOURCE OF BLESSING PRE-CONSECRATION, when everything the Queen of Heaven and Sr. Lucia state indicates that PRE-CONSECRATION it is a vessel of chastisement.
    .
    JPeters: You obviously have a problem with reading comprehension. I never said, nor did I suggest, that Russia is a source of blessing pre-consecration. I said the exact opposite. Before the consecration Russia has been used by the devil to spread communism. AFTER the consecration it will be used by God to help spread devotion to the Immaculate Heart. Read what I wrote again and pay more attention this time.
    .
    Johnno: “And when Louie mentioned that he looked through the works of Frère Michel, is was NOT LOOKING FOR Frère Michel’s or Fr. Kramer’s interpretations or opinions, he was specifically looking for direct quotations from the Queen of Heaven or Sr. Lucia that would suggest that Russia is what people are making it out to be.”
    .
    JPeters: My point was that Frère Michel and Fr. Kramer have the same view of Russia’s role as did Fr. Gruner. Fr. Gruner did not base his view on The Russian Sunrise.
    .
    Johnno: “Louie is not arguing that Russia isn’t ‘special’ in some way, because obviously attention has been called to that nation under a specific request singling it out for a particular purpose. But the danger is that certain people are already moving as if Russia – RUSSIA TODAY IN THE YEAR 2017 – is somehow going to be a blessing by encouraging it to act on its own, or of requiring Russia or the Russian Orthodox’s permission or help in getting the Consecration done.
    .
    If Louie’s article would have simply said that Russia must convert before it will be a “blessing” to the world, in any way, and/or that it is a serious error to imply that Russia will be a blessing without renouncing its heresies and converting to the true Faith, I would have agreed with him 100%. The problem is that he tried to place the blame for these error on Fr. Gruner, who did nothing whatsoever to cause them.
    .
    As far as Russia participating in the event, there is nothing wrong with it. In fact, an objection raised concerning whether it would be permitted to Consecrate Russia without their bishops being involved. Frere Michael commented on this in volume 3, and said it is permitted to perform the Consecration without them taking part.
    .
    Johnno: The reality is that Russia and the Russian Orthodox are IRRELEVANT to getting the Consecration done, and that job has always been and solely remains in the hands of the True Pope and the Holy Catholic Church. PERIOD.
    .
    JPeters: Russia and the Russian Orthodox are irrelevant to the Consecration, PER SE, but they are relevant DUE TO THE CURRENT CIRCUMSTANCES. The reason for this is because the Church today is ruled by ecumenical prelates whose greatest fear is offending heretics. If they think the consecration will offend the Orthodox, they are less likely to do it. Therefore, it is prudent to strive to remove this obstacle to the Consecration by having the Russian Orthodox themselves desire it. In this sense, Russia’s cooperation is relevant.
    .
    The devil does not want any obstacles to the Consecration removed. I suspect that is why he is using the False Friends of Fatima to attack those who are striving to have the Orthodox themselves desire it.

33. Johnno: “If the conversion was only about the sins of Communism, then rejoice! We’re all saved, because Russia now practices democracy! It has converted to Democracy!!! This is what JPeters wants us to believe … So it wasn’t about conversion to the full Holy Catholic Faith???”
    .
    JPeters: Once again, you reading comprehension “issues” are showing themselves. I never said conversion was ONLY ABOUT the sins of Communism. What I said was that “the errors of Russia” refer to the errors of Communism. Conversion refers to conversion to the true Faith.

34. Johnno: But JPeters is only focused on ‘Communism’ ignoring every other context as if all that was just an ‘aside’ and unimportant and unrelated to Russia’s SINS AND ERRORS.”
    .
    JPeters: Poor Johnno. The guy apparently can’t comprehend a single word that he reads.
    .
    Johnno: JPeters, first let’s hear you retract your deliberate distorting of Our Lady’s words you had to have deliberately misquoted in order to attack Ms. Ferreira and defend Burke’s call for an ecumenical consecration.
    .
    JPeters: As shown a few comments above, I interpreted her words correctly. It was you who misunderstood and misrepresented them, which is not at all surprising since you did the same with virtually everything I wrote. Perhaps you should seek out some professional help for your reading comprehension disorder. It’s never too late!

35. Frère François de Marie des Anges also demonstrates Sister Lucia’s own testimony to the instrumental role that Russia will play, after its conversion, in establishing in the world devotion to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. In an article originally published in the February 1990 issue of the French journal La Contre Reforme Catholique (translated and republished in the Spring 1990 issue of The Fatima Crusader), he writes:

    “At the Carmel of Fatima, on May 14, in the morning after having presided at the concelebrated Mass, Bishop Hnilica was received into the parlor. He was accompanied by Father Luigi Bianchi, as well as by Mrs. Wanda Poltavska, and the two ecclesiastics were able to speak for a long time with Sister Lucia.

    “‘Sister,’ asked Don Luigi Bianchi: ‘yesterday in his act of offering, Pope John Paul II, did he conform to the requests of Our Lady of Fatima to consecrate Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary?’

    “With the help of her finger, Sister Lucia indicated, No! Then with both hands she indicated the form of the earthly globe explaining that to accomplish the request of Our Lady it is necessary that each Bishop makes in his cathedral a public and solemn act of consecration. She remarked that Russia was not mentioned by name. Now God wants, ‘the consecration of Russia and uniquely of Russia, without any addition.’ Yes, for ‘Russia is an immense territory, well defined, and its conversion will be noticed thereby giving concrete proof of what one can obtain by the consecration to the Immaculate Heart of Mary.'”

    (c.f. http://www.fatimacrusader.com/cr31/cr31-32pg28.asp)

36. Thats just it Al jr, the waters are not murky once you take off your “A heretic can be pope glasses.” Accept that fact and you will see the Church in all her indefectibilty restored before your very eyes. Yes it will be very very small. A mere fragment of what it was. It will be a Church lacking its earthly Shepard, but it will be the Church without error or stain of heresy. It will be a Church of Catholics left wondering why God has decided to leave us in this state of no Shepard, but it will not be confusion or chaos. Only suffering and mystery, two things Catholics know how to handle. One thing we have never had to handle before was contradiction. That is why your eyes see murk. You have accepted the contradiction and are now blind.

37. Again, when one wears the “heretics can be pope” glasses, all is murky and confused. Chaos reigns. Take them off and even Fatima is easy to understand. The consecration wasn’t done. For our punishment the errors of atheistic communism and socialism spread and infected the whole world, including the Church. As far as Our Lady’s promise that it will be done and an era of peace to come. We can be assured that it will happen in God’s time and in His means. Speculating Russia’s future role is pointless. We are not even sure if Russia has finished spreading her errors. We are all only assuming that the error was communism. Her other obvious error is her Schismatic church.

38. You’ve again demonstrated the gnosticism at the heart of sedevacantist arrogance.

39. Gnosticism? It doesnt take some secret knowledge to know Catholic teaching on the papacy. It is quite clear, heretics are not Catholic.

40. Only the tiny band of sedevacantists understand how truly simple the situation really is, how “quite clear” it is. If only the rest of us could take off the “A heretic can be pope glasses,” we’d be able to see things as clearly as the elite band of sedevacantists, who alone possess quite clear knowledge of the situation. Then, like sedevacantists, we’d become enlightened. The true situation would then become quite clear to us. But unlike sedevacantists, we’re unable to take off these glasses. Thus we remain mired in ignorance and, hence, without the utter clarity sedevacantists alone possess.

    You’re a gnostic. Why not admit it? It’s quite clear.

41. Tom, if I was an Orthodox Patriarch and the Vatican was trying to convince me to make my church into one that is Uniate , I sure would not want to buy into his UN globalist fueled agenda for fear my people would excommunicate me or have me assassinated.
    I have no doubt that atheistic Free Masonic Marxist Communism is the error She was referring to. The goal is simple, to wipe all Faith n Jesus Christ the Word Made Flesh from the minds of all peoples.

42. “See how Russia will burn!” Before my eyes there extended an immense field covered with flames and smoke, in which souls were submerged as if in a sea of fire.

    “And all this fire,” concluded the Madonna, “is not that which will fall from the hands of men, but will be hurled directly from the Angels (at the time of the great chastisement or purification that will come upon the earth). Therefore I ask prayers, penance and sacrifice, so I may act as Mediatrix for my Son in order to save souls.” – Blessed Sister Elena Aiello – (Beatified by Pope Benedict XVI 14 September 2011)

    https://gloria.tv/article/EcnMd7Yvv9Hk1xCUT1S1coiDF

43. After reading Fr Micheals books, this is exactly the impression I got from Sr Lucy. , it’s more about the the church than Russia. If only we had the third secret, it will clear this all up. Fr Micheal did say his conclusion after studying the documents he had, that once the third secret is released then the consecration will be done. He thinks that it’s the only thing Almighty God will accept to give the necessary grace to consecrate Russia. Meanwhile we are to pray for the conversion of poor sinners and for ourselves, and for the Holy Father. the rosary will do just that and pull us out of heresy if we meditate on her mysteries with sincerity and longing for the truth. The consecration is for the conversion of Russia as Sr Lucy said. If anything Our Lady’s message is being used wrongly as a political football each group using it as a means to promote Whatever they interpret it as , and instead of taking the words from Our Lady she gave to Sr Lucy literally, they as you say spin it. Rather than what was intended in the will of God- the devotion of Our Lady’s Immaculate Heart along side of the devotion to Our Lords Most Sacred Heart, seeing how this is linked to the French Revolution 100 years prior Our Lord requested a very similar consecration to His Most Sacred Heart. The outcome isn’t good if this isn’t done, but the wolves want a revolution, and if they truly didn’t believe it then why are they fighting agianst it so hard as to literally suppress it, To me is see it as : they see Fatima as a threat to their most desired revolution. they will spin it all different colours to create a diversion to lead people away from the real intention, real meaning from heaven.
    Louie it wou t surprise me one bit if you get emails from people that oppose your article.
    The only blessing I can honestly see in the conversion of Russia is the end of the 1000 year old schism between the east and west. Russia will come back into the folds of the church as Catholics, now that would be a grand and wonderful thing to see, Our Lady’s Immaculate Heart placed above it , God will bring that poor nation back out of its misery. It is the largest nation in the world, and seeing how Russia has such a opposition focus in the west lately, all eyes in the west are watching Russia now. But it will be the church that will bring to her the great conversion through the triumph of Our Lady’s Immaculate Heart. So they the wolves will fight tooth and nail to prevent it by any means possible. They are requesting rosaries for all sorts of things, except this.

    Meanwhile as this act of Almighty Gods will is delayed with all these spins the church will continue to as Fr Hesse said ” humanly speaking – go down.”

    Sadly when Fr Gruner died his apostolate died with him. But thanks be to God for him still, because without Fr Gruner, Fatima would be lost to us. He may have gotten impressed by a fictional story, it could be after years of being out in the trenches Fighting , when may have grown tired as he so often said he may not be capable or good enough to get this message out clear enough, surely as a human being Fr Gruner like the rest of us having such a fight on his hands, can just as easily become distracted like the rest of us.

    The biggest obstacle people have to overcome is spiritual coldness with regards to all of it. It’s ok to love Russia and desire her salvation, after all that’s what God wants. Weither she is changing for the better no one can know for certain, but what is certain is that Our Lady’s words of Russia spreading her errors has come to pass, and is still coming to pass as we living in the west See communist virtues being implemented in our own nations, recall what Sr Lucy said about the US , it will be over come with communism . Even today it’s evil doctrine is promoted in the western youth, by the time another generation is grown to adulthood it wouldn’t surprise me one bit if we drop democracy and adopt communism.geopolitically speaking the US is looked upon as the leading western nation. By the words of Sr Lucy, the US will become a communist nation, Western nations will embrace communism along with her.

    The delay in the consecration affects us all, not just Russia. But what’s it gonna take to put a stop to it ? Seeing that rosaries are prayed daily and have been for years, I never once read anything about Our Lady stating we have to pray and make sacrifices for the consecration of Russia. For the Holy Father yes , for the conversion of poor sinners including Russians yes. for ourselves yes. But nothing about Russia.

    Pray much for the Holy Father, Our Lord told us to do this as well. But as an observer sitting back and watching what’s going on in relation to Our Lady’s message regarding the pope , what I see going on is either growing hated for the Holy Father or blind love in pope worshipping. We have a major problem here.

    Dates confused, according to Our Lady the formal request was made at Tuy Spain in 1929, not 2017 , but there are many who believe 2017 marks the 100th anniversary of her request. again another error. People are listening to others and not to Our Lady and Sr Lucy . The danger of this false interpretation will lead others to begin doubting as 2017 ends with nothing happening pertaining to the vision of Fatima. Fr Hesse said listen to Sr Lucy. If people listen to St Lucy, many will see that nothing will happen until 2029, that’s another 11 years away. We have Our Lords word on that. ” given the example of the king of France , in delaying the execution of my request , they will fall into misfortune.” We have historical documentation on that example. The details their provide us with the outcome. Can’t get much clearier than that.

44. Kellyann,
    Remember what little Jacinta said about praying for the Pope and seeing long lines of starving people. Then there is the question of what are they starving for?
    Are they starving for bodily food or Spiritual nourishment?
    In any case we were asked to sacrifice personally and offer up our daily duties ,pray the Rosary daily and to do the Five First Saturdays.
    We have seen petitioning the Vatican do nothing . We are watching parishes being closed and sold off , priest shortages and every scandal we thought we would never witness under the sun.
    Isn’t teaching the Truth to our loved ones and praying the Rosary our only recourse? It boils down to individual responsibility.
    Jesus already told us that. Pick up your cross and follow Me.
    After studying the so called Great Schism in depth, especially the latest findings in the Vatican Secret archives, ( actual letters between the Eastern Christian Bishops and the Vatican at the time ) by way of Barbara Frales’ books while doing her thesis for her PhD, I am convinced the first split of Christ’s Holy Church on earth was really about nothing more than greed over politics power and property , justified throughout history by ambiguous Theological arguments.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbara_Frale
    Pride always comes before a fall, which is exactly how Satan divided Christ’s Church on earth. The antithesis of pride has always been Our Holy Mother.
    We should just follow Her lead……….Pray the Rosary daily.

45. As far as I am concerned, the biggest obstacle in defeating the enemy within comes from lack of unity. The Fatima Center is split. The SSPX is split. Francis is the True Pope. Francis is a False Pope. The leaders in the Traditional Catholic Movement have taken their places in the circular firing squad. There is a war to be won and those who profess to be the Soldiers of Christ are scattered and fighting each other. Is this the diabolical disorientation warned by Our Lady?

46. Communism by nature is atheistic. Modernism, by nature, leads to atheism. Burke is a Modernist.

    Read what Pope St. Pius X said about Modernism leading to atheism in this encyclical “Pascendi Dominici Gregis”:

    “It may be asked, in what way do the Modernists contrive to make the transition from Agnosticism, which is a state of pure nescience, to scientific and historic Atheism, which is a doctrine of positive denial; and consequently, by what legitimate process of reasoning, they proceed from the fact of ignorance as to whether God has in fact intervened in the history of the human race or not, to explain this history, leaving God out altogether, as if He really had not intervened. Let him answer who can. Yet it is a fixed and established principle among them that both science and history must be atheistic: and within their boundaries there is room for nothing but phenomena; God and all that is divine are utterly excluded. We shall soon see clearly what, as a consequence of this most absurd teaching, must be held touching the most sacred Person of Christ, and the mysteries of His life and death, and of His Resurrection and Ascension into Heaven.”

    39: “…And now with Our eyes fixed upon the whole system, no one will be surprised that We should define it to be the synthesis of all heresies. Undoubtedly, were anyone to attempt the task of collecting together all the errors that have been broached against the faith and to concentrate into one the sap and substance of them all, he could not succeed in doing so better than the Modernists have done. Nay, they have gone farther than this, for, as We have already intimated, their system means the destruction not of the Catholic religion alone, but of all religion.”

    39: “…These reasons suffice to show superabundantly by how many roads Modernism leads to atheism and to the annihilation of all religion. The error of Protestantism made the first step on this path; that of Modernism makes the second; atheism makes the next.”
    http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Pius10/p10pasce.htm

47. You nailed it! Thank you.

48. Sedevacantists have been relentlessly vandalizing the comment sections here for some time now. I’m tired of it.

    In psychological terms, I see sedevacantism as a form of cognitive dissonance resolution. “I see a man held up as pope. This man is a heretic. Therefore he’s not really the pope.” So clean, cut and dry, so simple. Yet St. Peter himself denied Christ. All the apostles, except John, ran away. The greatest, holiest creature allowed herself to live in total obscurity. The creator deigned to incarnate as a lowly man. Destroyers like Jorge Bergoglio have occupied the chair of Peter since the Judas Council. All mysterious beyond measure. With their lust for clarity, I don’t see how sedevacantists have managed to embrace Christianity at all. “We see now through a glass in a dark manner; but then face to face. Now I know in part; but then I shall know even as I am known.” (1 Cor. 13:12). Sedevacantism is a kind of psychological utopianism.

49. The ‘Diabolical Disorietation’ began with the Freemasons/Communist/Illuminati demanded that John XXIII call Vatican II without rhyme or reason apart from the destruction of the Catholic Church……….then successive popes building on that effort.
    With Vatican II true Catholic teaching in schools was finished; God was spiritually “patted on His head” and told to move over and keep quiet; MAN placed himself on the altar and it’s gone down hill ever since.
    Groups and apostolates each have their own pet theories and disagree because they ANALYZE the wonderful messages of Fatima, Akita, Venerable Fulton Sheen, Padre, etc etc . Imagine the pride and arrogance of anyone having the temerity to “analyze” the words of Our Blessed Lady?
    The messages are crystal clear: Apostasy would start at the TOP of the Church and millions of souls would be lost through bad leaders; that Russia would spread her errors across the world – abortion , free sex, the destruction of the Church; the removal of God and the persecution of the faithful……….suddenly those things were from “Russian blessings!!!”
    One can only watch in horror at the success of the malignant intelligence of Satan who first removed teaching = KNOWLEDGE of the Faith, then set about the systematic destruction of the morals of the young; the trashing of marriage and family; disunity; Satan’s favorite sin of Pride that we know better than God; and the abhorrent Novus Ordo fiasco.
    Padre Pio said his Rosary was his weapon………. we really need to understand that it also OUR strongest weapon against error. May God, the Holy Spirit and Our Blessed Mother guide and protect us all.

50. Archbishop Sheen?http://www.traditioninaction.org/HotTopics/f041ht_Sheen_VatII.htm

51. Yes , little jacentia saw a lot, more than most realize, how to interpret it is as only a child could see it starving people, as starving people. Remember what she said about those souls in hell ? ” don’t they ever die ? She ask, She was very simple as a child is. She saw much of the future granted to her from Almighty God, but she never coded anything, she told it how she saw literally. Our Lady’s rosary is our one true defence to protect ourselves from the jaws of heresy, our recourse is to adhere to Our Lord. Focus on him. This is what Our Lady points to in her Rosary. You wanna give your children a good teaching lesson well teach the the rosary and it’s wonderful mysteries, espically how to meditate on the mysteries, we as adults grow in childlike faith. As for myself I agree with St Thomas ! I for one is not schooled we’ll enough in the dogma of faith to teach it, but the rosary has it all covered,
    Yes history has certainly proven your comment on the schism correct, it was pride one of the 7 deadly sins, that the great Christian civilization of bryzantine suffered for their break from the Holly See, how they decided to place themselves second over the churches in Syria and Alexandrea to Rome, a political move to position themselves as head of the church, was non other than one step towards the schism, but How Almighty God sent the scourge of the mohammedeans to punish them for it. 1000 years later and they still haven’t learned their lesson. It’s quite clear to me that not only the Jews are stiffnecked people, so are Gentiles. Our Dear Lady must weep sorrowfully for their indiffernism towards Her.

    Thank you for the link, I will certainly read it.
    God Bless

52. Yes it is very tragic, and it’s very hard on us, chewing my nails to bits over it. Will we one day see it break ? This final battle between Our Lord and the devil is hard to live through, but we know the outcome in the end. We have Our Lord and Lady’s word on that.

53. my2cents….I think you more than anyone has hit the nail on the head. Look at us. We the Traditionslists…..fighting amongst ourselves in an effort to say other Traditionalists are wrong. We spend more time at each other’s throats and less time time fighting the real enemies. We have the resistance, SSPX, neo-SSPX, sedevacantists, the list goes. All arguing that they are the “True Traditionalists.” You know who is not fighting….the modernists. They are all on the same page and unified in their effort to destroy. This is what deters people from taking up the fight against modernism. People may want to leave the NO, but who do they listen to? Which path do they take? Many will throw their hands up in disgust and take their chances. As someone finding their way back to the true Faith, I have been on countless sites, blogs, YouTube channels looking for answers. For each place I looked, I found a new set of people willing to tear others apart. The mean-spirited dialogue between them is worse than anything they aim at the enemies of the Church. The conversions we want will never happen this way.

54. KGB-Thank you for your very wise comment. Let’s face it, there is no united front against the evil of Modernist Rome. The enemy within will not win The Final Battle (Our Lady’s promise), but they will win many battles because the Church Militant are “spending more time at each other’s throats” (as you put it so well). Where is the Army of Christ? Here, there and everywhere throwing rocks at each other. That is no way to win a war. The Modernists must be laughing. Heaven help us all!

55. The split amongst trads centers on the Papacy. We cannot unite in battle if we cannot agree who the enemy is. Its a basic principle of warfare. Know thy enemy. We all agree that the enemy is the modernists. But some say those modernists are Catholic and others say they are not. Some say these modernists hold positions of authority in the Catholic Church and others say that is an impossibility. If these modernists hold authority, it is authority from Christ Himself. Some say we can ignore them anyway and others again say that is an impossibility. This is why the differing trad camps cannot coexist and cooperate. My advise is to put away the writings of the theologians and read what the actual Popes said about the Papacy. Then decide if they gave you the right to resist anything they teach.

56. Tom–At this time in history, the enemy is Bergoglio and Co. whether he is a real pope or a fake pope. What you say is understandable, justifiable and has much validity. However, the world sees Bergoglio as “the Pope” and history books will refer to him as “Pope Francis”. It’s sickening! My point is no matter how anyone views this man, he must be fought by a united army who recognize him as the enemy of Christ and His Church. Judas was a traitor to Our Lord who sold Him to those who wanted to destroy Him. Yet, he is counted as one of the Apostles. Sedes and those who acknowledge Bergoglio to be the pope (albeit a horrible one!) must keep both eyes on the enemy and go forward to defeat him together. That is the goal. Please God, help us all.

57. Thank you ock. Short and to the point! The very fact that the Freemasons, Communists and Illuminati are waging a non-stop war of such malevolent slanders, smears and outright hatred against Trump is because he has the strength and courage to stall their plans for a One World Government.
    Their original plan for their choice of the puppet Clinton fell apart under the personality and Patriotism of Trump. Thanks be to God and may He protect the President.

58. Fulton Sheen may have agreed with parts of Vatican II but you surely missed his amazing ‘talks’ on the Faith; or maybe you just didn’t understand what he was saying.
    Venerable Fulton Sheen: “The Mystical Body of the Church today will have its Judas Iscariot, and he will be the False Prophet. Satan will recruit him from our Bishops.”

59. sweepoutthefilth – I agree in 100% .
    Communism in Russia did not fall, it just transformed.
    Communism regime and it’s servants are masters of deception.
    Orthodox church is very aggressive against Catholic Church.

    It’s highly possible that the only place one Earth where communist revolution could have such success is schismatic Orthodox Russia, because deification of the state / ruler (state/nation is everything, individual is nothing – in short) was already present before revolution, for many centuries thanks to false orthodox religion.
    It’s big topic, but simply lets state this: russia’s orthodox society, culture – was ideal ground for communism. The next in row are Germans – in my opinion.

    Of course it’s important to mention that statistically Russia’s people are the one who fought the most against communism, more than any nation in the world, but they lost. and suffered the most also.

60. Nice try JPeters, but everyone can go over to
    https://akacatholic.com/an-ecumenical-consecration-of-russia-with-russian-orthodox-bishops/

    To find your responses where you deliberately and are still deliberately distorting the quote.

    It was always IN UNION WITH HIM. This is NOT A DIFFERENT TRANSLATION. You DELIBERATELY CHANGED the words to make your argument.

    Please provide the source of your BS quote, given that every search will turn up the correct one which I and others presented to you.

    You can’t make any points based on LIES JPeters.

61. JPeters,

    Given that you are known to be deliberately FALSIFYING QUOTES FORM THE MOTHER OF GOD, and are trying to pretend you have some alternate translation when that only source is you distorting it yourself, it’s very rich given that everyone can see your reply to Louie above and notice how you completely or deliberately chose to miss the point in order to change the argument against Louie.

    The only one who had a reading comprehension failure is you.

    But I don’t believe that’s what occurred. You DELIBERATELY AGAIN tried to set up a Straw Man, much like you DELIBERATELY MISQUOTED the Mother of God about needing bishops IN UNION WITH HIM (The Pope) and claiming you’re taking it from an alternate translation you made up in your head, when I and others called you out on it.

62. Nice try JPeters. But you again only exposed the fact that you are trying to make the “errors of Russia” a catch-all phrase to be only about Communism. When in fact as you’ve been repeatedly told, the errors of Russia are a lot more than just about Communism, but stem from the Schism. Which is why you are going out of your way to ignore all that in order to defend an ecumenical Consecration. That’s what you’ve been going on about when above you again stated –

    “The devil does not want any obstacles to the Consecration removed. I suspect that is why he is using the False Friends of Fatima to attack those who are striving to have the Orthodox themselves desire it.”

    Therefore you are bringing schismatics into the picture who are NOT IN UNION with the Pope. Therefore you are contradicting yourself when you state you want conversion to the True Faith, but you are perfectly accepting of an ecumenical consecration which by necessity would not require conversion in order to have the schismatic Orthodox show up. So which is it? Because as was repeatedly asked of you, but you kept running away, why the hell would the Orthodox show up to a Consecration that demands their Conversion? Unless of course JPeters wants the Consecration to eliminate all reference and necessity towards this ERROR OF RUSSIA?

63. Dear my2cents,

    Do not be deceived by the chaos of our time, as the Great Apostasy which it is, as this of course was inerrantly foretold, and therefore must occur, in the Holy Writ by Saint Paul in 2 Thess 2. Remember also precisely what the Holy Gospel of Matthew prophesies, from the very Mouth of the Son of God, in 10:34-42 (Douay-Rheims copy):
    “Do not think that I came to send peace upon earth: I came not to send peace, but the sword. For I came to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man’s enemies shall be they of his own household. He that loveth father or mother more than me, is not worthy of me; and he that loveth son or daughter more than me, is not worthy of me. And he that taketh not up his cross, and followeth me, is not worthy of me. He that findeth his life, shall lose it: and he that shall lose his life for me, shall find it. He that receiveth you, receiveth me: and he that receiveth me, receiveth him that sent me. He that receiveth a prophet in the name of a prophet, shall receive the reward of a prophet: and he that receiveth a just man in the name of a just man, shall receive the reward of a just man. And whosoever shall give to drink to one of these little ones a cup of cold water only in the name of a disciple, amen I say to you, he shall not lose his reward.”
    Discerning this passage in Matthew then, my2cents, can you walk away from it believing that this time could in anyway be understood as to be “easy”? As man will find his enemy within his own household, how could we think then that so called “Trad groups” or any “group” of men can yield us some kind of peace or comfort. There is only One Who yields us peace and He commanded this in the Gospel of John, 14, and we know with divine certitude thus, that we will not find His Peace in this world, and that means from human relationship, for instance. The only true Peace is found in Truth, which is hard, but He is a divine Person and He commanded that if any man was to come after Him, he must first deny himself, take up his cross, and follow Him….to Calvary, not to a “group” to find faux human comfort. As Tom A has written, we find ourselves in this chaos in the world as the Bark of Peter is, as it has been, without its captain now for 59 years, again prophesied in the inerrant Holy Writ. I pray this helps. In caritas.

64. Oh did you interpret the words of the Virgin Mary correctly? Then prove it for us – provide the source of your ‘alternate translation.’ Then let’s compare it to oh… EVERY OTHER OFFICIAL SOURCE – that states:

    “The moment has come in which God asks the Holy Father to make, and to order that in union with him and at the same time, all the bishops of the world make the consecration of Russia to My Immaculate Heart” (Frère Michel, The Whole Truth About Fatima, vol. II, p. 555).

    – Can the Holy Father ORDER the Russian Orthodox? ie WOuld they obey his command?
    – Are the Russian Orthodox in UNION with the Pope?
    – Does God and the Queen of Heaven recognize as ‘bishops’ those who are in schism from His Vicar on Earth?
    – Does God through the Queen of Heaven only use the word ‘Union’ in a vague modernist fashion so as to be inclusive of those who precisely reject all of the above?

    Let’s go JPeters. Let’s see whether you acknowledge your error or continue to somersault hilariously around the facts so that you can continue to light incense to your ecumenism.

65. JPeters like his friend Martin Luther deliberately drops a key word from the quote of the Virgin Mary -‘him’- meaning the Pope, and now tries to engage in mental gymnastics.

    In union with HIM and at the same time means, despite JPeter’s feigned ignorance of the English language – Bishops of the world in UNION WITH THE POPE and SIMULTANEOUSLY WITH HIM performing the Consecration. Perhaps someone ought to take the time to give JPeters a lesson on the word ‘And’. Given the Orthodox are NOT IN UNION with the Pope and would not follow his ORDER, because the Pope is ORDERING a union and simultaneous Consecration with him. The ORDER for Union and Simultaneity comes FROM THE POPE. So unless the Russian Orthodox suddenly start following and obeying the Pope’s orders, they are not in union with him and therefore would not perform a Consecration from an Apparition whose messages all imply that the Orthodox are to convert. Furthermore, for a bishop not to obey the Pope would make him disobedient to his vows and could result in automatic excommunication, meaning he ceases to be in union with the perfectly orthodox and just command of the Holy Father. Hence why God demands the Pope to EXERCISE HIS GOD-GIVEN AUTHORITY AS THE PRINCIPLE APOSTLE AND HEAD OF THE CHURCH ON EARTH IN HIS MAJESTY’S ABSENSE!

    Observe JPeter’s sheer Protestant stubbornness and deceit. Proving that JPeters is not an honest man and is not in this to engage in honest discussion. Should anyone trust the words of someone who would so shamelessly double down on the fact that he is deliberately changing the words spoken by God’s messenger? This is where obsession with ecumenism leads folks, JPeters is a bird of a feather with the modernist clique.

66. In caritas, I am not deceived. I am frustrated and irritated. Every army needs a General. There was a time I thought the SSPX would be the standard bearer for Truth. Now I’m not so sure. I think I’ll just stay home and pray. Thank you, In caritas.

67. My2cents, I understand your frustration because I too was there for a time. I asked why all the squabbles amongst trads? Why can’t we unite and fight the common enemy, Begolio? I came to the conclusion the enemy is much bigger than Bergolio and Co. The enemy is Modernism and all who hold it. This means the enemy is the entire NO V2 sect. This is too hard for most to accept. We all still have that “priest” who gives great orthodox homilies that we know, or that nice FSSP chapel not too far away. Trad confusion is in direct proportion to the degree they accept V2 NO sect as Catholic. The various factions cannot unite since there is no Shepard to unite us. In other words, there is no Pope.

68. There is no discounting the wisdom of your words, In Caritas, or TomA.
    My point, and I think, my2cents, is not that we are not aware that the road will be hard or that there will be crosses to bear. But ultimately we are talking about saving souls and those that will be led astray. It is easier for individuals such as yourselves, or Louie, who are very knowledgeable, and can articulate what you believe and why. But when people are looking for someone to guide them to get there because they want to leave the NO, how are they supposed to make sense of it? Their theological life has been a lie. They look for truth, they are desperate for answers, and have 15 different people telling them that they have the true Traditional answer. If the resistance to modernism is about saving souls from the NO and the apostasy, then it can’t be a competition between groups who say they have the same goal. I am brand new to this and find myself in conversations with people still loyal to the NO. I admit I do not have the education to be able to adequately defend the realizations that I have come to, but I also have no idea how to point them in a direction they can understand because their argument becomes the same…..who is right?

69. Thank you, KGB. That is exactly how I feel, but you said it much better than I could have. The Modernists who have hijacked the Catholic Church are doing a wonderful job of erasing the memory of all things truly Catholic and replacing it with a fake empty “religion”. Let us stay faithful to the Holy Roman Catholic Faith as founded by Our Lord and pray for guidance to help save souls. Our Lady leads all souls to Her Son. That is our hope and prayer.

70. Good Friday evening KGB and my2cents,

    Please know with certitude that it is not what we “know” that gets us to Heaven and the Beatific Vision unto all eternity. It is love, as our perfectly miserable reflection of the One Who Is Love. In the final analysis, our free will gets us to Heaven, powered by grace alone, that gift both freely given and completely undeserved by every miserable human creature, with me as the first. Our Blessed Lord and Savior commanded that without love of Truth, yearning for Him with a zeal which finds its wellspring from within our deepest interiority, He doesn’t know us, as to love Him is to give Him all that we are. In John 14 our Blessed Dominus Deus Sabbaoth and Savior commanded that whoever knows My commands and follows them, loves Me, and as I am in the Father, you are in Me, and I in you. Remember that He willed each of us into existence, ex nihilo, in this particular time of the Great Apostasy for His purposes, indeed to save ourselves and to assist in the salvation of the other, with the same zeal which we find for our own. Never lose sight of the prize. Pray for the grace of perseverance. Pride and cowardice seem to lead the way in this time. The Grace and Peace of God the Father of our Blessed Dominus Deus Sabbaoth and Savior, Jesus the Christ, be always with you and yours’. Amen. In caritas.

71. KGB, as you can see, this “In caritas” is incredibly pious, and equally willing to display that piety. But know that once you cross him and his ilk, all that blessed piety will fly right out the window and he’ll spew green bile. Wait and see.

72. Your right Tom in regards to the errors of Russia, we are only assuming that it’s communism and the virtues of Marxism, and that her other errors is the schematic Russian Orthodox Church are also spreading, where in its bowels they reject the pope but not the church herself. The Blessed Mother is not believed to be Immaculatly conceived, the divorce and remarried can recieve the Blessed Sacrament up to three times. Excellent point, it’s quite obvious that the Russian Orthodox Church errors is spreading within the catholic faithful, doing as it does in the othodox churches , that is; striking division and ripping the church apart.
    My question to you is….seeing you speak from a position of sedvantism do you still at least obey Our Lord and Lady and pray for the Holy Father as they requested of us?

73. Keeping in mind that never once did Our Lord and Lady say there would be no pope, only that he will greatly suffer, I cannot also help but ask, Where did you get your insightful knowledge from to determine your position? You see this is one area where the church has not fully defined the situation, but is still in the debate phase, if a pope who falls into heresy. according to Fr Hesse a pope who is a material heretic remains catholic until he clearly announces that they rejects the sacred traditional teachings of the church and promotes his own doctrine. We haven’t had such a thing happen yet, even further still in the situation between pope Benedict and Francis, this is creating major confusion, and it appears with The Fatima children this was confusing for them as well, in the words of Sr Lucy , “the bishop dressed in white , we taught it was the pope.” Why would they say that and then further one say ” the Holy Father was walking by carcuses crying and praying and continued up a hill towards a big cross where he was killed. Are they the same persons or are they different persons ? This is one part of the vision that isn’t clear at all, but Our Lady explained it to St Lucy, and without out that explanation of the vision we will keep wondering about it. But to presume about it would be yet again another spin.
    Then we have St Francis fortelling of a pope who will be elected illegitimately. did you get that! ( a pope ) not popes. And then he goes on to describe the dire situation among religious orders, we see this very situation today among the orders.

    Our Lady of La salette telling us of two worm ridden popes. Who are they that are worm ridden but still are popes? What does this mean exactly . Corrupt popes ? , antipopes? , material heretic popes?

    When she showed them the vision of hell, she simply told them what she showed them, given the grammar of Our Lady and her clarity to explan it, I’m confident Our Blessed Mother did the same for the second vision, that explanation which is being withheld. I’ve come to the conclusion that by suppressing the last message of Our Lady, by releasing the vision of it, they are using it as another method to strike division , as Almighty God foretold the shepherd is struck and the sheep are scattered. We are scattered over this trying to figure it all out. Some say come over here we got the right answer , other groups are doing the same thing. But non of them have the final message of Our Lady. All we know for certain is that we are living in it right now as it unfolds infront if our eyes, the one thing we don’t have is Our Lady’s message, we have no way of knowing how this is pope situation is going to unfold As preordained by God.

    Who’s in control right now is Francis and his God of surprises along with the wolves who put him there. Preordained by Almighty God to correct us in our errors ? Lord knows we need to be tested.

    All of this distressed Sr Lucy , as a matter of fact she was horrified by it all.

74. Not what we know? I beg to site the Words of Almighty God .
    Quote ” my people will perish from lack of knowledge.” End Quote.
    No other words are required on that point.

75. indeed your are right about that.

76. Good Saturday afternoon kellyann,

    What does a Baptized 50 year old with Down’s Syndrome “know” about the One, True Faith? What is required is faith in love, as our Blessed Lord and Savior commanded that only those with the faith of a child will enter the Kingdom of Heaven. We are commanded to know yes, but only within the capacity which Almighty God has given each of us in our intellective power. To suggest that it is all about knowing is sophistry and is prideful. If someone’s intellect is such that they could know much more and assist in the salvation of the soul of the other in their capacity to know more, but because of sloth or cowardice for instance, that same someone did not pursue their intellective understanding of the Faith more deeply, then that person is culpable. To intone though that everyone must achieve a certain level of knowing the Faith, as though there is a bar on the curve of a chemistry exam, which everyone must achieve to get to Heaven, that is simply false. Lucifer knew everything there was possible to know about the Goodness that Almighty God simply Is, as Love and Truth Himself, and in spite of knowing God beyond our miserable human capacity to even imagine Lucifer’s capacity to know, he denied God as non-Servium in the very moment of his creation. I pray this helps. In caritas.

77. Sedevacantism, as espoused by those who post on this site, is as novel as anything introduced into the Novus Ordo since VCII. The sad truth is Sedevacantists, in the objective order, show themselves to be an enemy of the Immaculata; they deny the promise of Our Lady of Fatima that the pope will consecrate Russia to Her Immaculate Heart; they also relieve themselves of the unpleasant burden of praying for the Pope and they reject the request of Our Lady to do so; They do not promote the Message of Fatima since it doesn’t square with the belief that there is no pope. They , by their own authority, have liberated themselves from all of the concerns of the ignorant “Trad” by declaring that there is no pope. Problem solved.
    Unfortunately for the rest of us who are not willing to climb into their rudderless barque, we have to be subjected to their pompous pontifications at every turn. I understand the temptation completely and I do believe that those who hold the SV position are men of good will but that doesn’t make them right. Our Lord has spoken and the only hope of deliverance from this terrible castigation will be through the Immaculate Heart of the Blessed Virgin. Our Lady of Fatima Pray for Us.

78. Dear Martin Sloan,
    If this pope or a future pope does consecrate Russia to Our Lady’s Immaculate Heart exactly as She requested, we must pray that Russia will convert to the Holy Roman Catholic Church as founded by Our Lord. If Russia’s conversion falls in line with the N.O. V2 novelties, I don’t see much hope for the world. That is why I strongly feel that before Russia could be converted, the N.O. “church” must be converted first. What is more frightening? The rudderless barque of the sede position (as you put it) or the Captain of the Barque of Peter using the rudder to head straight for the “iceberg”? There are many men of good will in the Novus Ordo establishment, but that doesn’t make them right either. You are correct— Our only hope is the Triumph of Our Lady’s Immaculate Heart by whatever means She chooses. Our Lady of Fatima, pray for us indeed!!

79. …and Tom A still can’t spell shepherd. In my days, they’d make me write it out a hundred times if I made such elementary errors, but obviously Teenage Tom A is a product of Trad Cath homeschooling, in which spelling counts for nothing as long as you believe that the sun revolves around the earth and John Paul II was an antipope.

    Speaks volumes about the intellectual pedigree of these so-called “better than Francis, better than Lefebvre, better than the FSSP” pseudo-intellectuals, doesn’t it?

80. Thank you for the spelling correction, Prof Q. Its never too late to learn.

81. And thank you for your humble and gracious reply. Pax vobiscum.

82. Johnno: “Please provide the source of your BS quote, given that every search will turn up the correct one which I and others presented to you. You can’t make any points based on LIES JPeters.”
    .
    JPeters: BS quote? You should be careful before making false accusations that are easily refuted. Here are numerous sources for the citation:
    .
    1) Article from the Fatima Cursader, found heere: http://www.fatima.org/essentials/message/reqconsec.asp
    .
    2) Documentos, pp. 463-465. Found in Frère Michel de la Sainte Trinitè, The Whole Truth About Fatima, Volume II: The Secret and the Church, pp. 463-64.
    .
    3) The book, Marian Apparitions, the Bible, and the Modern World, By Donal Anthony Foley, page 272 (available online).
    .
    4) The book, Fatima: The Great Sign, By Francis Johnston, available online,
    .
    There are four references for you. Now, in reparation for your false accusation, and the offence that it caused God, please offer a public apology.

83. Johnno: “Given that you are known to be deliberately FALSIFYING QUOTES FORM THE MOTHER OF GOD, and are trying to pretend you have some alternate translation when that only source is you distorting it yourself,”
    .
    JPeters: Above I provided four references for the quotation I cited – three from published books and one from an article in the Fatima Crusader.

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