Yesterday, it was announced that Pope Francis has appointed two new Auxiliary Bishops for the Diocese of Brooklyn, NY, one of whom is Fr. James Massa (left – in more ways than one).
This announcement has largely been greeted by tradition-minded Catholics as welcome news given the fact that Fr. Massa is known to celebrate the Traditional Latin Mass, and was even appointed by Bishop Nicholas DiMarzio as “Coordinator of the Celebration of the Traditional Latin Mass” for the diocese back in August of 2005.
OK, I get it.
Those of us who live in this liturgically barren desert otherwise known as the post-conciliar “New Springtime” are so desperate for signs of hope that the pending episcopal consecration of any priest who demonstrates an attachment to the Mass of Ages is cause for excitement.
Even so, I feel compelled to remind my traditionalist (aka Catholic) friends that the twentieth century’s most notorious modernists – men like Karl Rahner, John Courtney Murray and Tielhard de Chardin – all celebrated the Traditional Mass even as they plotted to undermine the Faith.
True, celebrating the Traditional Mass in this day and age when the pope considers the venerable ancient rite little more than a “certain fashion” is certainly noteworthy, but the point is simply this; it does not guarantee that the priest in question has any real love for tradition.
Fr. James Massa is a perfect example. He is a man of the Council through and through; a dyed in the wool ecumenist who finds the conciliar “novelties” (as he plainly identifies them) causes for celebration.
So hostile is Fr. Massa toward the true faith that he even goes so far as to dismiss the immutable truths conveyed by Pope Pius XI in the Encyclical, Mortalium Animos, wherein the Holy Father reaffirms the Church’s understanding that “the union of Christians can only be promoted by promoting the return to the one true Church of Christ of those who are separated from it,” that he dismisses the teaching as “not a successful strategy.”
In June of last year, I highlighted Fr. Massa’s over-the-top ecumenical fervor in the video below. It’s a bit lengthy, but for those who want to get to know him, it’s very telling.
The bottom line is this: Any time a priest is willing to celebrate the Traditional Mass, it is right for us to be thankful. On the other hand, we must recognize that it can also serve, as in the case of Fr. Massa, to distract us from the ugly enemy of tradition that lurks beneath the beautiful traditional vestments.
Considering that a priest of the FSSP (with his superior’s blessing) helped to basically destroy my family, this article really hits home. Celebrating the TLM is great but has NOTHING whatsoever to do with what is truly inside a priest’s heart, especially those priests who march to the beat of vatican 2 Rome.
Everyone knows that the Mass and Sacraments are just the proverbial tip of the iceberg of Tradition. Without the traditional Catholic faith that underlies the Traditional Latin Mass and Sacraments, the Mass alone amounts to window dressing and smells and bells.
Even as you post Catholic, Jewish, and Muslim Leaders to Gather at CUA, Commemorate 50 Years of Engagement and Dialogue Cardinals Tauran, Koch from Rome (and Dolan from U.S.) to speak on Muslim, Jewish dialogues Participant in Second Vatican Council to recall drafting of Nostra Aetate Presenters and respondents to include preeminent Muslim scholars, rabbis May 19-21, 2015
“CADEIO Interreligious Leadership Institute Sunday night to Saturday, May 17-23 concurrently with the Nostra Aetate Conference at Catholic University (May 19-21) to include as a part of our curriculum the presentations by Cardinals Koch, Tauran and Dolan, as well as the many other presentations that are available during the daytime. You can find this schedule of presentations at CUA’s Conference webpage. It is incredible.
ADD TO THAT a selection of presenters who are religious leaders in the DC area, a number of group discussions and time to process the development of dialogue among Jews and Muslims and Catholics, and end the Institute on Saturday morning as part of a limited guest list with Cardinal Tauran, local interreligious leaders and the Durga Temple of Virginia.”
Too bad couldn’t finish up in a Christan Temple! Maybe the “dicksciples” of Jesus Christ will picket – but don’t count on it — we raise our eyebrows and comment on blogs and keep attending the Archdiocese “masses”.
One small caveat to help prevent that thinking from taking things too far in the opposite direction. The Mass and Sacraments were instituted by Christ at the cost of His life — by shedding His precious blood. They stand on their own as tremendous and precious gifts, which bring us directly into contact with God and His Graces. Even a sinful priest with Faith the size of a mustard seed, can still do wonders, as our Lord reminded His Apostles , simply by being willing to perform the necessary actions prescribed by the Church. Because of the Real Presence it can only become mere smells and bells in the minds of those who have no Faith, not in actuality. Naturally we agree it’s important for the priest to have the true Faith in order to pass it on to others and become a good shepherd.
The implicit message being that since all major religions are equal, one’s preference is simply a matter of infantile attachment.
Fr. Massa’s comments about the “unsuccessful strategy” delineated by PPXI in “Mortalium Animos” made me weep. The dogma EENS is the cornerstone of the Church. Fr. Massa and all the others of his ilk are really blaspheming Our Lord Who told all generations what they needed to do to be saved. God was wrong and they are right. They know better than God. Just writing that made me cringe. What hubris! How evil!
Please don’t do this. If you are not willing, or able, to provide details of this case it is really unfair of you to make such a statement.
As well, we need to remember both John Paul II and Cardinal Ratzinger said the Latin Mass hundreds of times from their ordinations to the promulgation of ‘the new mass.” At the same time they would have been living out the perverted philosophy and theology they learned at university and seminary.
The Traditional Mass has made saints, but sinners have said it too.
The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is truly the Source and Summit of the One True Faith.
After listening to Louie’s video I wonder about new priests being ordained these days. I’ve heard many, many times that they are much more traditional than those horrors produced in the 70s and 80s. If Father Massa is helping to indoctrinate seminarians we are in for more darkness ahead.
A nice friendly face, and a soft, thoughtful way of speaking can cover a diabolical message.
Our Lady of Fatima, pray that Our Lord will inspire holy priests.
What sorrow for those who drag their sins behind them
with ropes made of lies,
who drag wickedness behind them like a cart!
No, he isn’t obligated to give you details which are none of your business. You can choose to disregard his post. There is no fairness police in free expression.
“Before the Council, some Protestants were uncertain that Catholics were Christians.” HEY, NOT SOME, MOST, AND THEY ARE SURE WE ARE NOT CHRISTIAN. I got into an argument 2 weeks ago on WordOnFire youtube blog with a zealot who called all Catholics w____ of Babylon going to hell, and disparaged BVM. I called him out on that, the hypocrisy that he can honor his earthly mother on Mother’s Day but not the mother of Jesus Christ. He demanded that Catholics be more ecumenical, but he didn’t want to be ecumenical himself much less polite. I had to block him after he attacked the papacy. I’m surprised that WordOnFire let all that heresy stand. It’s a good thing I wasn’t there in person or I would have drilled my high heels into his foot, like Liz Taylor in Butterfield 8.
I was not clear, and I certainly didn’t want to say that he should give us any details. But putting this kind of thing out there can cause scandal.
You are right. I should just have let this pass.
Your comment about free expression is incorrect. We are not free to say many things that we would like to say.
But I don’t want to get into a slanging match with you, Mary Regina, or anyone else. I’m sorry I spoke up.
I understand that some may not want to hear what I said. Believe me when I tell you that I wish it werent the case, but sadly it is. I can easily get into specifics but as much as I may want to, I know that it would be wrong to do so on a public forum so I won’t. However, the crux of this piece by Louie is basically to be on guard at all times….and that is simply what I am trying to reinforce. The FSSP is vatican 2 and when push comes to shove they will do what they are told.
And let me add one more thing….its not only that they, the FSSP, will do what they are told, but they are of the vatican 2 mindset to begin with.
Thank you Mary for your understanding.
Rich said: “The FSSP is vatican 2 and when push comes to shove they will do what they are told.” This is unfortunately very true. I hope and pray that the SSPX don’t follow in their footsteps.
PS. (I wish every preist faithful to the Perennial Magisterium would remove the picture of the man who said, that God doesn’t exist, that there is no Catholic God, that hell doesn’t exist, the Jesus pretended, that Our Lady railed against God, who scorned children’s Rosary offerings, who promotes the ‘canonization’ of enemies of the faith, sodomy, adultery, false religions etc. from their chapels!)
Protestants by and large see Catholics as belonging to satan for the simple reason that they believe (against Scripture, History and Tradition) that Christ his the light of His Church under a bushel for 1500 years, much like the Novus Ordo do. It is idiocy – but you cannot coerce an idiot into given up his ridiculousness; and if he is hell bent on it, he will get what he is bent on.
Another important post. “[N]ot a successful strategy”?! Strategy for what? Would that be the Novus Ordo strategy of handing souls over to satan with unprecedented efficiency? Unfortunately for Rev. Massa et al, not everyone dies two seconds after their baptism. If one applies their baptism to schism and ‘other doctrines’ and ‘other Jesus’ as St Paul puts it, one rejects that baptism and places onself outside the Church. The much touted unity spilling from the lips of Rev. Massa is a myth; he and his kind have made a mess, mocked the Perennial Magisterium and rejected the teachings of the True succession of Popes.
The goal of the VII Council Fathers is simple = to pretend to make concord between Christ and belial. They can’t, they have simply aligned themselves with belial and denied Christ and His One True Church.
Do the Novus Ordo hierarchs have an understanding of the Perennial Magisterium? asks Louie. Bergoglio was born in ’36, he was raised in a devout Italian Catholic Family and given a traditional formation – in other words the Bergoglios most certainly do. And as for the younger hierarchs, God has not hidden the Perennial Magisterium under a bushel from anyone; He has not hidden the words of any Catholic Pope. If any lay person can know the Faith, what is the excuse of the Novus Ordo clergy who promote pertinacious schism from true Popes and the True and Perennial Magisterium (pertinacious presupposes bad faith such as the schismatic knowingly and willingly tears asunder the unity of the Church. (Canon 1325))?
One, Holy, Catholic and Apsotolic Church is ‘willingly torn asunder’ by the words and works of the Novus Ordo through the new ecclesiology founded at VII (a doctrine the sedevacantists call ‘Frankenchurch’ as it creates a mutant ‘body’ comprised of schismatics and false religionists that has not one mind, one Faith or one Worship, but applies faith and worship to a multitude of falsehoods and devils and declares it pleasing to God (Lord have mercy)).
PS. Some real true Catholic encouragement from a real true Catholic Bishop:
“A nice friendly face, and a soft, thoughtful way of speaking can cover a diabolical message.” How true.
I believe Louis’ video of Fr. Massa and his colleague show supremely smug and pretentious manner of speaking and behaving, and the diabolical message, well argued and revealed by Mr. Verrecchio, is the revisionist history propagated, namely that VII inaugurated a new age of light and truth as compared to a pre-VII church which was steeped in darkness. (It is somewhat akin in spirit to the rabbinic propaganda of a pre-holocaust Judaism and a post-holocaust one.)
Regarding Fr. Massa’s soft-spoken style, as a man I find it detestable and unattractive. How far we have come from admiring the rough and tumble saints such as: St. Boniface in Germany and St. Martin in France cutting down sacred trees; St. Benedict building a monastery in Montecassino (have you ever been to Montecassino!); St. Fr. Brebeuf among the Hurons…etc…etc.. One can only guess what these men must have sounded like, but I’m sure it would have been a far cry from Fr. Massa here. However, don’t misunderstand me, are we not told that Martin Luther was rough-hewn and uncouth in speech and manner, so simply being such doth not make a saint as well.
Somehow, prayer must be sought first and foremost to seek and speak the truth above all no matter how, along with seeking the aid of the Holy Spirit to direct our manner of speech and behaviour. To somehow speak with true sincerity. How so very difficult this is. How often have I desired but dreaded to pick-up and read the book of James, always done hesitatingly, with fear and trembling. St. James prayer for us.
The Novus Ordo on the whole really has defected. If they had to go to God for the rights to use the brand ‘catholic’ they simply wouldn’t be allowed to call themselves Catholic anymore.
I have gathered some quotes regarding the NO religion from the thread of this post so far:
LOUIE: “Those of us who live in this liturgically barren desert otherwise known as the post-conciliar “New Springtime”
“True, celebrating the Traditional Mass in this day and age when the pope considers the venerable ancient rite little more than a “certain fashion”… ”
“So hostile is Fr. Massa toward the true faith that he even goes so far as to dismiss the immutable truths conveyed by Pope Pius XI in the Encyclical, Mortalium Animos,…”
“… the ugly enemy of tradition that lurks beneath the beautiful traditional vestments.”
RICH: “… the TLM is great but has NOTHING whatsoever to do with what is truly inside a priest’s heart, especially those priests who march to the beat of vatican 2 Rome.”
TWN: “… we raise our eyebrows and comment on blogs and keep attending the Archdiocese “masses”.”
CRAWLER: “The implicit message being that since all major religions are equal, one’s preference is simply a matter of infantile attachment.”
LAKE ERIE: “Fr. Massa and all the others of his ilk are really blaspheming Our Lord Who told all generations what they needed to do to be saved.
BARBARA: “… remember both John Paul II and Cardinal Ratzinger said the Latin Mass hundreds of times from their ordinations to the promulgation of ‘the new mass.” At the same time they would have been living out the perverted philosophy and theology they learned at university and seminary.”
ALARICO: “… the diabolical message, well argued and revealed by Mr. Verrecchio, is the revisionist history propagated, namely that VII inaugurated a new age of light and truth as compared to a pre-VII church which was steeped in darkness.”
EVER MINDFUL: “What sorrow for those who drag their sins behind them
with ropes made of lies,…”
The people making these comments are all sincere, good, loyal Catholics. Is it remotely possible that such comments could, truthfully, be applied to the Catholic Church of Our Lord? Definitely not! Who in this company does not know that the whole NO mess is heretical, evil and not Catholic? Check out pewsitter and novus ordo watch to get an overview of how terrible and anti – Christ the NO really is. The heresies are numerous and we all know them. The land of sodom. Their mass and many sacraments are invalid. They are leading millions of souls to hell. Why cling to the false NO church? What is there to possibly gain, or achieve? To consort with heretics is to aid and abet them. Who wants to keep company with and submit to heretics? To recognise Bergoglio and his evil conciliar predessors as Popes formaliter (they are Popes materialiter) is to obey and submit to them. Refusal to do so is to be schismatic. If one knows that they were/are all heretics, what is one doing in their “church”? One thereby gives scandal to others. One can change nothing from within – if one thinks that one can, then one is just fooling one’s self. These days the evil judeo-masonic plot is plain for all to see. lucifer is waging war on Our Beloved Lord. Will one swell lucifer’s throng by one’s presence? We all know what is going on. It is high time for Catholics to man up and stand up for the Faith. Cut from the NO!!! Let them be anathema!!! Please listen to this sermon – it is not long.
I replied to your previous comment Re the August 19 Fatima apparition in the last post.
I only watched Louie’s video after I had posted my comment.
Well, Louie has said it all. I rest my case! There it is, beautifully presented – we have a new church. I’m gonna stick with the Catholic Church.
What a smarmy little heretic Massa is! I wish I’d had a “barfbag” (?) ready before I listened!
This kind of comment – that the FSSP is “vatican II” is simply opinion, not backed up with fact.
I believe this opinion is linked to the various sedevacantist positions. This is not a forum for that discussion as it leads nowhere.
By their fruits you shall know them.
Yes. We must be careful when describing someone’s manner of speaking. St. Francis de Sales, for one, had a very mild manner and was unfailingly gentle and soft spoken. This of course was because he had trained himself over ten years – in an heroic effort to curb a bad temper!
There is a difference now though. The soft approach is somehow disgusting when it is used to teach error. I believe it is a deliberate attempt to fool the many people out there who have lost the power to THINK. A well instructed Catholic simply cannot listen to this garbage and come away with the warm and fuzzies. The worst part is that when we try to warn people that this soft, gentle message is a lie, we are accused of being harsh and of having no mercy!
The perennial teachings of Holy Mother Church HAVE been hidden from everyone! Thank dear St. Thomas Aquinas’ intercession that this teaching, while being hidden, has not disappeared. Those who thirst for the Truth can still find it. Oh, if only we could convince the average Catholic to read any encyclical written before ‘vatican II’ – how they would see plainly the riches of our Faith.
But when you drink vast quantities of Kool-Aid because it is so sweet and refreshing, the plain, clear water of truth is no longer appealing.
But sedevacantism is a dead end. Where do you go? How will you know which pope is the right one? What is the test? Would Our Good Father in Heaven leave us without a pope for decades? Does He punish in this way, or does He send us bad popes to test our faith in His Providence?
Our Lady has told us this time would come. She told us the rot would begin at the top. This means, in my opinion, that God would send bad popes, not that he would leave us without a pope.
I, too, truly wish none of the popes since 1960 had even been born let alone brought into existence to do evil and lead souls to hell. But Our Dear Lord had a different picture in mind. He permits evil for HIS reasons. We don’t know His mind, and we are not to question It.
Speak the truth? Yes, always and in any venue we can. Suffer? Yes. Suffer these evil men who lead souls to hell. Our hope and trust is that many will waken before the plunge themselves into hellfire.
Me too, very close to home, at the inception of FSSP decades ago. They’re on board with VII, wolves in sheep’s clothing. More could be said, but for anyone who seeks Truth – facts are not difficult to uncover.
Exactly. Thank you.
Dear Mary Regina,
“Thank you” meant for Mary Regina, May 20, 2015.
My “me too” comment meant for Rich May 20, 2015. Replies are not coming up where they belong.
If I may, I repeat here what I’ve said before,
“I have, sadly, seen numerous attacks- ad hominum & otherwise- on the position we are currently addressing, made by those who are not sufficiently equipped with the knowledge required to effectively engage in fruitful intellectual intercourse becoming of Catholics.”
That position being sedevacantism.
The “dead end” argument is an old, tired one-and to to repeat it with finality is to deny the Omnipotence of God Almighty.
Dear sister in Christ, as for your questions, they deserve an answer, and those answers can be found.
The comments are in the right place but one can’t tell that on a mobile phone as the “threads” are too long for the format. It would be good if the format could be improved and the web version accessible from mobile phones as the “mobile” version is very restrictive.
This is the terrible truth. The Archbishop in Dublin who is an out and out heretic and appeaser of evil and misleader of souls is again assisting the push for evil legislation to impose same sex sodomitical relations on the populace. The countless souls these ordained men have on their consciences . . .
I haven’t heard of one priest or bishop who told the people the truth – that it is a mortal sin to vote for the legalisation of grave intrinsic evil, which can never be a valid law for being contrary to Natural Law and Divine Law.
Blessed Michael, the Archangel, defend us in battle . . .
What a brilliant video, Louie! Thank you.
I remember the first time you posted it; I sent it to many people. I will send it again to remind them the truths of Mortalium Animos —— my favorite encyclical!
Whenever the modernists speak of UNITY or say “that all may be ONE” I always think, “Yeah, ONE WORLD RELIGION” ——- That is what they truly mean.
Barbara, Catholic education has been destroyed in an organised way by collusion with state and international fora programmes and policies. The infamous Archbishop Martin of Dublin got rid of the Catholic teacher-training colleges and subverted their very purpose by incorporating them into a school of education in an atheistic university.
To your point-if a protestant is of good will, however, would you agree & have you found (as have I) that pointing out-modified within the exercise of fraternal charity -exactly the statements you made-to said protestant -can actually effect conversion? IMHO one cannot waver in such, bc the True Traditional Church cannot contradict Herself.
Thank you, Lynda, I’m not using a mobile phone, though. Maybe I’m just doing it wrong. probably the case. Peace be to you.
Dear Indignus Famulus and In Hoc Signo Vinces,
I asked a question to your previous comments re the August 19 Fatima apparition in the last post.
The Fiery Prayer for the Apostles of the Latter Times
by St. Louis Marie Grignion de Montfort:
Dear Mr Lamb, the vast majority of Catholics do not have access to the Traditional liturgy and sacraments.
– “But sedevacantism is a dead end. Where do you go?”
Where do you “go” now?
This is the tone of voice of a true saint of God:
You’re surprised “we-have-a-reasonable-hope-no-one-is-damned” promoting Fr Barron lets heresy spread through his blog?
You wish that JP II had not been born (one of the popes since 1960), and, as far as I can recall – you accept that he is a saint?
That’s a huge contradiction. We should love and venerate true saints of the Catholic Church – not wish that they had never been born, implying that they are reprobates!
Thanks for sharing that beautiful prayer by St Louis de Montfort!
I have added it to my favourites list for later use.
dear In Hoc Signo Vinces,
Thank you for this. The voice of the Holy Vicar of my youth, an unwavering Shepherd. I can still remember, and this brought to mind, hearing this very voice of the Supreme Pontiff on the radio.
The fact that you can gather together quotes containing strong criticisms is not all that impressive, since they were made to a post about ongoing abuses. This does not prove your concluding claims. Not all N.O. Masses, priests, and parishes are abuse ridden. We testify to that. There are very good ones, in our experience, and there does exist the possibility of correcting errors where they exist. There are parishes where the Faith is thriving and growning, and where folks who are aware of the importance of the past teachings, can make a difference, where seminary training has left our priests with needs we can help fill. Of course the situation is serious. But it’s not as you paint it–where the only solution is what you claim. We’ve spend the last 40 years working in this vineyard, and been part of that help/correction/nurturing Faith process many times.
You wrote above;
” If one knows that they were/are all heretics, what is one doing in their “church”?
Our reply: –They’re not ALL heretics.
You wrote: “One can change nothing from within – if one thinks that one can, then one is just fooling one’s self. ”
–Again not true.
You are right that we are in a battle with the Powers of darkness. Anyone who knows the Faith can see that clearly, and Our Lady’s warnings verify it.
But then you ask :
“Will one swell lucifer’s throng by one’s presence? ”
The answer is a definite NO. We counter it. YOU could very well be doing the same, with all the knowledge you’ve acquired.
“It is high time for Catholics to man up and stand up for the Faith. Cut from the NO!!! ”
Could we not respond, that it’s time for Catholics like you to man up and stand up for the Faith IN the N.O. Parish nearest you? After all, we’ve seen progress where you deny it’s possible. It’s taken us decades of prayer, work and sacrifices. But we’ve seen priests and people turn around completely.
We’re not into statistics, as long as we can see progress with the few who are right in front of us. That’s a quitter’s stance. Sometimes in wars you have to retreat for a while. But you never win them, if you fail to engage the enemy at all. Prayer is good. Prayer and works are better.
–We’re not saying that EVERY situation is the same, obviously, or that every pastor will respond to long-enduring efforts like ours. But how long have you tried that? And if you failed, did you try in another parish?
Yes we’re in a battle for souls. THIS mission work is not for everyone. It IS for people like you, who know the Faith, and won’t be swayed by errors, but will be there to refute them. So we toss your challenge back to you.
🙂 🙂 Join US, who are making a difference in the so-called “N.O.” Church
Thanks, saw it.
Target sells many fine products, but I’ve been asked to boycott them because they sell cards supporting sodomite marriage. Hitler only killed certain undesirables. Many Nazis were good men and disagreed w/his policies. Democrats support many good policies as well as abortion and sodomite marriage.
ONE unrepented mortal sin condemns to hell. In these ‘good’ parishes how many collections for CRS Rice Bowl, CCHD, etc.? 90% using contraception and/or sterilized, attending the “traditional mass” is optional, even when one attends the traditional mass communion in the hand is “optional”, kneeling for communion is optional, covering one’s head and wearing modest dress is “optional”, fasting on Fridays is optional, 40 days of fasting during Lent (haha), fasting before communion (haha). Why don’t you Bible up and do what St. Paul, Psalm 1 and Proverbs 1 tell you to do? Don’t CONSENT to evil — and by your presence there, you ARE consenting to evil, just like Nazis, Democrats and Ku Klux Klanners.
“Who, having known the justice of God, did not understand that they who do such things, are worthy of death; and not only they that do them, but they also that CONSENT to them that do them.” Romans 1:32
“But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach a gospel to you besides that which we have preached to you, let him be anathema.” Galatians 1:8
“Blessed is the man who hath not walked in the counsel of the ungodly, nor stood in the way of sinners, nor sat in the chair of pestilence.” Psalm 1:1
My son, if sinners shall entice thee, consent not to them. If they shall say: Come with us, let us lie in wait for blood, let us hide snares for the innocent without cause: Let us swallow him up alive like hell, and whole as one that goeth down into the pit. We shall find all precious substance, we shall fill our houses with spoils. Cast in thy lot with us, let us all have ONE PURSE. My son, walk not thou with them, restrain thy foot from their paths. Proverbs 1
I too find it horribly offensive that the Bride of Christ w/out spot or wrinkle is constantly being blamed by you folk for crimes being committed by heretics and evil doers who have NAMES as clear as Luther, Calvin, Herod, Caiphas, Diocletian. You may hide your head in the sand and think you are praying and sacrificing, but this heresy will be over with when all the people who recognize the heresy stop supporting the men selling the heresy, just like a boycott works when all the people stop buying a company’s product. Your name on the parish role is your consent to evil.
de Maria numquam satis
Dear Servant of Our Lady – thank you.
Yes, Louie’s summation is spot-on. I have spent more than a decade studying the documents and processes involved in Vatican II. It was not evolutionary; it was revolutionary and then further used as an excuse for almost limitless abuses and novelties. The result is, indeed, a new church, not faithful to doctrine or Tradition. Massa is a heretic…but so what? Heresy/apostacy is now the “corporate culture” of this new church and corporate culture is always shaped by the CEO. I was a NO parish council president for years until I could take it no longer. I attended the wonderful True Mass established by then Bishop Burke in La Crosse until that religious order moved with him to St. Louis. I went to the FSSP for some time, but agree with those who say it also is Vatican II and always on a short leash. After wrestling with all the issues involved, I now attend the SSPX True Mass…and True Church…exclusively. Few of the magisterium today are still Catholic, let alone really holding official office within the Church. I would go so far as to say, the heresy-a-day pope we now have is no longer Catholic or pope. But we still have a true pope in Benedict. Anyone who believes he wasn’t forced out–which would make his “retirement” moot–just hasn’t been paying attention. Thank God and the Holy Ghost for Archbishop Lefebvre providing a repository for the true faith through all of this mess. How ironic; those who pose as the Church today, are proving themselves to be the real schismatics. October should settle it.
Well, it would help if Benedict just stepped up and said he was forced out, if that was what really happened. Then again, he was one of the brains behind the vatican 2 debacle and he has yet to anathematize that.
If they had been hidden I certainly wouldn’t have found them. I found them simply because I wanted to. They aren’t hidden.
Agree the Church doesn’t engage in contradiction. I find engaging with protestants over the facts of the True Church, a bit like engaging with a willful child with little experience or knowledge but who thinks they know it all – except the protestants are adults.
Some sedevacantist Mass Centres.
The CMRI site has a Traditional Mass directory as well.
There are many itinerant priests who minister to far flung places, often those in their spiritual care provide house altars. I’ve heard of laity providing such assistance to priests who saw what was on the horizon going back to the 60s.
Apparently some volumes of his works from decades ago are being republished and he has redacted his original postion within the text on marriage. Can’t find out exactly what this means except he has been accused of placing himself as ‘Pope Emeritus’ into the current ‘debate’.
PS. I should point out that it wasn’t exactly a walk in the park, but few things worthwhile, other than a walk in the park, usually are! as obviously everyone who found Louie’s site must know.
This kind of discussion truly leads nowhere. If John Paul II is in Heaven through God’s Justice, he is a saint. However in my opinion he is not a candidate for Sainthood as Holy Mother Church defines that.
I see I will have to be very, very careful when I make a statement. If everything we say is taken literally we’re going to get into this kind of discussion. When I state that I wish these popes had never been born I mean because of the damage they have done, not that they are reprobates.
About sedevacantism – some believe there is no pope, some believe we have a pope, albeit a bad one.
From the discussion on both sides I don’t think this is anything else but opinion. There is no way to know this side of the grave.
Rich relates multiple bad experiences, which he can legitimately contribute (simply as part of experiential evidence ) to the ongoing conversation about what is happening in our Church. It’s not wrong to do that even without the details, if they are private. We need to take one another’s word for things here, as this forum is anonymous. However, those on the receiving end of these comments can also legitimately object to conclusions drawn about what these individual experiences demonstrate –in forming the bigger picture. THAT is where we often see individuals go from –it happened to me or in THIS instance, to it is happening EVERYWHERE and AT ALL TIMES, therefore we must abandon this entire group or segment of the Church.. And THIS is where your objection is legitimate (IOHO).
People who attend parishes in dioceses that call for contribution to things like the Campaign for Human Development, are perfectly free to protest this organization’s contributions, AND to refrain from contributing. If they are not there to raise their voices in objection, there are fewer voices objecting.
This is our Church, not a chain of department stores like Target. You can go to other local stores to buy what you used to get at Target. Millions of people all over the world rely on their local parishes for Mass and the Sacraments, and have no TLM to attend as an alternative. Modernists are the enemy. Not the Body of Christ which we receive at the N.O. Mass—the SAME Christ we receive at the TLM.
So for us, your solution of rejection of all the parishes our grandparents helped build, is a bad idea, because it pushes people to abandon their Sunday obligation and reception of the Sacrament so necessary to their spiritual well-being.
Inform people of the ongoing problems YES, by all means.
Tell them to stay away from Church? No.
My network suddenly went offline so I have been away from the action for a while. (I’m sure I was missed. 🙂 ) Where do we go now? I think the answer lies in sedeprivationism. To explain:
1. We know NO is not Catholic.
2. We do know a heretic can’t be Pope. Salvemur recently put it beautifully in a nutshell:
“Cum ex apostolatus of Pope Paul IV (1559), makes it unassailably clear, that by Divine Law a heretic is never a valid Pope. This is codified in Canon 188 no. 4 which states that there is a “tacit (ipso facto)” resignation from an office without the need of a declaration regarding public defection from the Faith (it references Cum ex apostolatus, which raises that tacit loss of authority to the level of Pope in Canon Law as well).”
3. We know the Papal Succession will endure, uninterrupted, until the end of time. (Vatican I.)
4. We know the Catholic Church will remain until the end of time. (Our Lord.)
OK, so those are facts we know with certainty. So, how do we marry the present situation with those facts? What are we to do?
1. If the NO is not Catholic we get out of it. TWN has given a very good summary of applicable scriptural quotes to this end below.
2. One must remember that this situation is unique in the history of the Church. It took time for things to develop and for people to understand what was really going on. With the passage of time and especially with the advent of the internet, our awareness is increasing exponentially at this time. When theologians started recognising the heresies embedded in VII and then promulgated by conciliar popes, they knew that in terms of established Catholic doctrine a heretic, although LEGALLY (canon law) elected Pope, automatically lost all authority and power of his office, i.e. he lost the power of JURISDICTION, (Divine law) the instant he became a manifest heretic. So these theologians concluded that the Chair of Peter was vacant = total sedevacantism and that we are in a very extended interregnum. Where would we eventually get a true Pope from?
i. We don’t know.
ii. Divine intervention.
iii. Is there possibly an impeded Pope, i.e. a true Pope in hiding?
Well there is currently no good evidence we have an impeded Pope.
If Our Lord intervened and created a new Pope then:
a. Vatican I, which is infallible, would be proved wrong, i.e. fallible, because we would then have a NEW succession which did not come from St. Peter and
b. Christ would have started a NEW church and that would contradict His promise that the Church He built upon ST. PETER would endure to the end of time. Our Lord doesn’t break His promises So that’s not the solution.
The ghost writer of the Ottaviani Intervention, Fr. Guerard des Louriers, a brilliant theologian, then proposed the Cassciacum Thesis, i.e. materialiter- formaliter sedevacantism, or sedeprivationism as a solution. This Thesis solves all the problems in conformity with our known facts:
The conciliar popes have been LEGALLY validly elected in terms of canon law and retain the LEGAL power of DESIGNATION. That is they are legal Popes materialiter.
But in terms of Divine law they have lost the power of JURISDICTION, so they have not the authority of true Popes and cannot function as true Popes. So Francis is LEGALLY Pope, but MORALLY he is not even a member of the Church, let alone Pope. His magisterium is not protected from teaching error by the Holy Ghost. He is not infallible and is free to teach all the heresy he likes. He is not a Catholic. It seems complicated, but if you think about it, it is not. So we are not in an extended interregnum – the succession of Peter – a LEGAL succession of Office – is intact. (Vatican I satisfied.)
How can we get a true Pope eventually?
i. Francis could convert, repent, confess his heresies, annul VII and return to teaching orthodox Catholicism and he would immediately receive the power of jurisdiction and be a true Pope.
ii. The Holy Ghost could have the right man elected Pope at a future election (conclave.)
The Succession of Peter is intact and Christ’s Church will continue in that Succession when the true Pope comes. This theory solves all the problems and is completely in line with Catholic doctrine.
It’s a pity about the complicated terminology, but it is because things developed over time. When I say sedevacantism I mean sedeprivationism. I think in time the terms will become synonymous.
Remember the difference between a BAD Pope and a HERETICAL pope. Our Lady told us this rot would come, that it would start at the top and that is was for punishment of sin.
Cum ex apostolatus of Pope Paul IV (1559), makes it unassailably clear, that by Divine Law a heretic is never a valid Pope. This is codified in Canon 188 no. 4 which states that there is a “tacit (ipso facto)” resignation from an office without the need of a declaration regarding public defection from the Faith (it references Cum ex apostolatus, which raises that tacit loss of authority to the level of Pope in Canon Law as well).
Don’t I know it!!! I’m the only sedevacantist I know in my city and I only know of one family in Durban who are sedevacantists. I won’t go to a SSPX una cum mass in Johannesburg. So I wear the brown scapula, say the Rosary daily and virtually assist at Mass on St. Gertrude’s live webcast (where I keep a seat for Indignus 🙂 🙂 ) It is really great and is practically as good as being there in the flesh. I ask Our Lord for a Spiritual Communion and receive the reality of the Sacrament. Believe it, or not a sedevacantist Priest, Fr. Francis Miller O.F.M., has traveled from Louisiana, USA, to Durban, then Pretoria twice to bring us Confession, Mass and the Eucharist. How’s that for dedication? I can’t tell you what it’s like to be with a real Priest, even just for a short time. To have a real Mass and real Eucharist. I became a lone sedevacantist, then within months I have a sedevacantist Priest from America IN MY HOUSE. Coincidence? I don’t think so! Thanks be to God!!! Anybody in my position can do the same.
I know. The NO is full of faithful, good souls who are simply not aware of what is really going on. Until recently I was one of them. The “all heretics” was to apply to the conciliar popes. Indignus I’m sure it is clear to all what lovely people and good Catholics you are. I’m sure you have done great good in your parish and will continue to do so, but the hard, sad fact is that the NO church, as such, is not Catholic. It is not what we mean by “the Church.” The mass and eucharist are not valid. Pretending that they are does not work. The conciliar popes are heretics and not Popes formaliter. All the Scriptural quotes cited by TWN below say you should not be there. Yes, you can correct and convert individual parishioners, which is a very great good work, but you cannot change the NO church itself which is working with masonic power from Rome. Our Lord will do that.
I hear what you say so clearly. Its such a crazy situation. Yes, many of the people there are in good faith and are receiving grace for their good intention. They do not know that they are in a non-catholic church attending a protestant mass, but the trouble is you do know what’s what. I feel terrible saying this, but you, like Massa are ignoring Mortalium Animos, the theme of this post, by praying in a non-Catholic church. Please remember that sedevacantism is simply leaving a false church and practicing the orthodox, unadulterated Catholic Faith of all time. How can that be bad? Please listen to the sermon link I gave above. It explains it better than I can. I am trying to do exactly what you are so sincerely trying to do. The only difference is that I am working from outside the NO as I believe I am OBLIGED to do and you are trying from within the NO. God bless you wonderful people. 🙂 🙂 (But I’m keeping your seat in St. Gertrude’s for one day.)
I just can’t go with the “una cum” Mass and the selective submission to the man they recognize as Pope of the SSPX. I also think the crunch will come in October, but I bet they will be very subtle by adding on, rather than by head on deletions. Benedict was just as much a heretic as the others.
Bishop-Elect Massa generously and temporarily took over as Administrator at my Parish in Brooklyn this past Winter due to our Pastor being ill. This added a great deal of work to his already very full schedule. At no time did he mail it in. He presided at the weekday masses. He blessed the elementary school’s Christmas Show. He led us in prayer at the tree lighting in the freezing cold. He was the celebrant at all of our Extraordinary Form Masses without compensation. A seminarian that he tutored delivered a homily that would make your traditionalist and purist beard curl in joy. You are bashing a devoted representative of Christ because of one quote about ecumenicalism. Good luck finding a priest or anyone who can live up to your ridiculous and un-Christ-like standards!