Third Secret of Fatima

Comments (48)

1. “Why did She save his life?”
   Yes, Louie, it was not for mistakes John Paul made; it was for him to institute, at the request of Her Son, the Divine Mercy Feast (original instituted in1995, then made universal in the Great Jubilee Year 2000). As a Latin Mass devote, I respect all my traditional brothers and sisters and do not comprehend how so many of you cannot understand the importance of John Paul, who took over the papacy after the probable murder of John Paul I and then was a victim of an assassination attempt; one which helped usher in the other victory Mary saved John Paul’s life for: the defeat of the evil empire without one bullet fired (except those Karol Woytyla survived). And here we are now with not a true pope, but as St. Francis prophesied, a “destroyer.” As St. Faustina was told by the Lord Himself, and as we quickly approach that time, Jesus said to her He “first comes as the King of Mercy”. He who refuses to pass through His doors of Mercy must then pass through His doors of Judgment. For those who want to argue against this, please read St. Faustina’s Diary, “Divine Mercy in My Soul.” If you haven’t you don’t know what you are arguing about and you are also arguing against the King’s desires, not John Paul’s.

2. Dear Louie,
   In 1862 Don Bosco related his dream of “The Two Columns, a larger one, bearing the Eucharist and a smaller one, bearing a statue of Our Lady Help of Christians. In it, he related seeing th Pope fall, seriously wounded, but instantly helped up. And then, “struck down a second time, dies” .. And no sooner is the Pope dead, than another takes his place. The Captains of the auxilliary ships elected him so quickly, that the news of the Pope’s death coincides with that of his successor’s election.
   ___
   The new Pope steers his ship safely between the two columns and moors it, first to the one surmounted by the Host, then to the other topped by the Virgin. At this point, something unexpected happens. The enemy ships panic and disperse, colliding with and scuttling one another.
   It goes on about the ones who stayed away for fear, now coming close…and ends with A great calm now covers the sea.
   (It is claimed in that book, that Don Bosco later confirmed that these were two different Popes)
   __
   In another of his dreams, he speaks of Italy’s woes to come-four times.
   After the third, he says, Woe to you if My law again shall go unheeded. There shall be defections among both learned and ignorant. Your blood and that of your children shall wipe out your transgressions. …And you priests, why are you not prostrate between the vestibule and the altar, weeping and praying that the scourge may cease? Why do you not take up the shield of Faith and preach My Word from the rooftops, in the houses, streets and squares, and even in inaccessible places?
   __
   Do you not know that this is the terrible two edged sword, which smites my enemies and placates the wrath of God and man? These things shall inexorably come to pass, all in succession.

3. Awesome insight once again, Mr. Verrecchio.

   The Divine Mercy as revealed to Sr. Faustina has many valid objections, some of which are the following:
   1. It was condemned three times: once under Pope Pius XII, twice under Pope John XXIII.
   2. It is a counterfeit of the traditional Sacred Heart devotion. (There is no heart in the divine mercy image.)
   3. The original divine mercy image had no wounds from Our Lord’s passion.
   4. The divine mercy chaplet is said on the Rosary beads. All other chaplets have their own beads.
   5. Saying the divine mercy chaplet on the Rosary beads DISARMS us (the Church Militant) by usurping our greatest weapon in these times —- the Rosary.
   Many more objections may be found at this site:
   http://iconicjesus.org/home/category/objections-to-devotion-revealed-to-sr-faustina/

4. I am wondering about the connection between this post and the devotion to the Divine Mercy. I don’t see where Louie either endorsed or critiqued it. I thought it was about the Fatima messages. A brief connecting comment would be helpful from either or both sides…Thanks!

5. My only point in mentioning Divine Mercy was that Simeon said that Our Lady saved Pope John Paul II’s life so that JPII could institute the Divine Mercy feast. I mentioned the objections to the Divine Mercy feast and devotion in order to show that I do not believe that this was a valid reason why Our Lady saved his life, and that we are, in fact, back to Louie’s original thought that She saved his life so that we could see that JPII is NOT the pope of the Third Secret of Fatima. Louis’s words: “the reason may very well have been her desire to undermine the attempts of those who might one day seek to mislead the world into believing that the Third Secret concerns that event. You see, in saving the pope’s life that day, she guaranteed that those with eyes to see would immediately recognize that the “bishop in white” of the Third Secret couldn’t possibly be John Paul II.”
   As Louie also said, “I suppose it’s just a matter of speculation, but something tells me that it wasn’t so he could live long enough to start World Youth Day and the Assisi abominations!”
   I, too, suppose it’s just a matter of speculation, but something tells me that it wasn’t so he could live to institute the Divine Mercy feast and devotion and promote that chaplet that many now use as a substitute for the most important weapon of our time, The Rosary.

6. To buy the “party line” on Fatima requires one of the following, more or less:
   —–
   – You live in a cave with Internet access to Catholic Answers, only
   – You’ve just chugged a gallon of Diabolical Disorientation
   – You’re getting paid
   —–
   Louie, barring some catastrophe, I’ll be down in Chicago on Saturday, and look forward to meeting.

7. I have received an e-maial from John Salza one of the speakers at the Fatima Conference in Chicago. He said that he would reply to my e-mail within two or three weeks.
   The email mentioned the points raised as comments on this blog.

8. I agree with Marykpkj. Commentators on this blog tend to go way “off topic” (myself included, at times). We should all be more aware that what we want to contribute (in few words) is relative to Louie’s blog.
   Was putting the bullet in the crown of the Fatima statue a political move to bring attention to this incident being a fulfillment of The Third Secret? I wouldn’t doubt it.

9. I think we all agree that words have meaning. When we read the part of The Third Secret that we are allowed to read, there is no way John Paul II’s shooting was what was revealed in it. The words are quite plain, and easily understood by even those with limited education: lots of people, many dead, man in white gets killed – nay, shot with bullets and arrows, as do others, he dies as do others. There is a cross, lots of blood – horror, devastation. What’s complicated, or symbolic about that?
   —
   I’m not a scholar, or a theologian, but I can read English. You can’t fit the round peg of the shooting, and recovery of John Paul II, into the square hole of the Fatima vision.
   —
   From my limited knowledge, Sr. Lucia never once said that the vision was symbolic. Nothing she said about the vision of hell was symbolic either. We surely must agree that Our Lady would not show visions, and speak words, to little kids that they would only be able to explain were symbols that meant something else?
   —
   Let’s try to be like little children and listen to Our Lady’s very clear, plain, easily understood words. It’s part of the devil’s (Alinsky!) game to have us spend our time discussing what it all means, when the meaning is right before us.
   —
   My comments are not a reflection of comments of anybody here, but are my opinion of the topic! ;}

10. I’m wondering why, if the second part of The Third Secret involves a great falling away from the Faith, and the terrors to come, no Pope has warned his flock of the dangers? Or warned future popes?
    —
    Each pope, each bishop, each priest has only one job, really. That’s to warn of the coming of the devil, and his wolves, and to teach the way to get to Heaven.
    —
    If this secret shows the dangers, and they know the way to avoid them, can it possibly be that warning us would rock the boat so much, or endanger their careers, or ‘scare’ us so badly that that’s why they won’t tell us?
    —
    When we pull way back and get to the gist I think this is the question:
    WHY have they kept the faithful from knowing the truth?
    —
    All other discussion is pure Alinsky. Not only do we spend lots of time discussing and debating tiny points, but all that pits one camp against another.

11. re above: I’m not suggesting that we here are wasting our time (Alinsky) or that opinion and discussion have no value, but in general in the Church we do fall into that trap.
    —
    And that goes with comments above about staying on topic. I too tend to swerve off sometimes, but this is devilish – we can get hung up and what we need is to share TRUTH, and support each other!!

12. Dear Barbara,
    We agree, and what further sustains your main point is that God allowed those same little ones to see a horrifying vision of Hell, so terrible that Sister Lucy said she thought they would have died, had not our Lady promised they would be going to Heaven some day.
    We know that was not symbolic, and without any further instruction.

13. Dear Barbara,
    We’ve also felt this frustration for a long time now, over the many alleged versions. We resolved to go with what we DO know, and it has helped.
    Sister wrote that “the Dogma of the Faith would always be preserved in Portugal, etc.”
    -With or without the etc. being more fully revealed, it stands to reason that the Dogma would not be preserved at least in some other places.
    -And, If Dogma (which is unchanging truth taught by the Church) is not preserved, then something else must replace it, as we don’t live in a vacuum. So again, we are safe in assuming that False teachings will occur, and logically again, who will be doing that teaching?
    -We are thus led to conclude that she predicted an Apostasy in the Church.
    And if it would lead to such catastrophic punishments as she also predicted, including a Pope being killed, then we can assume it is likely to have spread everywhere. Our brains tell us that, reading the news.
    We don’t see a real need for additional guesswork or fighting over theories, either, but we’re always interested in hearing them and mulling them over..

14. marykpkj: as Servant of Our Lady pointed out, I was answering Louie’s question as to why our Queen saved JP’s life, on the anniversary of the first apparition date. Obviously, unlike Servant of Our Lady, John Paul understood how important this event was, not for political purposes as one writer suggests, but for spiritual purposes to put the bullet in Our Lady of Fatima’s crown. So if John Paul was saved and the crowning achievement of his pontificate is the Divine Mercy Feast, obviously there is a connection that most do not want to see in their spiritual blindness.
    As for the objections of Servant of Our Lady.
    1. It was condemned much like every other devotion was condemned before the Church understood spiritually it was from the Lord. As for it being condemned three times under John XXIII, do you really believe the pope who disobeyed the Queen of Heaven by not releasing the secret is in good standing to judge such a devotion?
    2. It is not a counterfeit of the Sacred Heart devotion, which is the Alpha of Christ’s desire for us to contemplate His Sorrowful Heart. The Divine Mercy Image is for us to contemplate the Blood and Water which gushed forth as a Fountain of Mercy for us, which is the Omega of the Sacred Heart devotion.
    3. St. Faustina cried when she saw the first Divine Mercy painting because it was not how the Lord appeared to her, to which our God told her in was not in the painter’s brush where one would find His Beauty but in His Mercy. St. Faustina then had a second painting commissioned which depicted the Wounds of our Risen Savior.
    4. Since it was Christ Himself who told Faustina He wanted the Divine Mercy Chaplet prayed on her Rosary beads, I think that is an argument one should take up with Jesus as your King.
    5. Whew, this last one is outrageous, to make such an authoritative statement when the Church has approved that Christ is the Author of this Chaplet. Jesus said the Church Militant was to use the Divine Mercy Chaplet to pray for souls who do not know Him so that our prayers could help save the lost and that the Chaplet was especially powerful for those who were in their last agonies. Since Mary told us at Fatima that most souls go to hell because no one prays for them, do you think it’s possible Jesus and Mary might actually being working together to use the Divine Mercy Chaplet to accomplish the saving of souls?
    Servant of Our Lady, it is obvious you have never read St. Faustina’s Diary, yet you have filled yourself with ever possible objection.
    And to all who think the Divine Mercy devotion is off topic to a Fatima discussion is where you make your first serious mistake.

15. What does the Divine Mercy devotion have to do with this article about Fatima?

16. Louie, Great point to contemplate, IMHO.

17. If you haven’t seen it, check out Rorate’s summary of the Pew study of religion in Latin America. The apostasy of Catholics has been massive since 1970 — the year the Novus Ordo was imposed, and the beginning of when the church tolerated, and even in some cases even celebrated, Liberation Theology instead of the Cross. For example, in Honduras, Catholics dropped from 97% to 46%. Touted as the continent of the Church’s “future,” that future in Latin America turned out to be Protestant. Every so-called “reform” since 1962 stands condemned.

    Link: http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2014/11/the-latin-american-exodus-catholics.html

18. Putin “Prepares For Economic War”, Buys Whopping 55 Tonnes Of Gold In Q3
    –
    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-11-13/putin-prepares-economic-war-buys-stunning-55-tonnes-gold-q3
    –
    For context: This is the real front where Putin and Russia and the BRICS will fight against the West. Not through military force, but through economic force. And it is also why America is desperate to instigate World War.
    –
    Gold is cheap right now, but this is artificially created! The American Federal Reserve has been printing Dollars like crazy for decades! Other nations are catching on. There is a lot of fixing of the value of Gold to make it look as if the Dollar is strong by attempting to flood the market with Gold and cut its price to give the illusion that gold is unreliable and that the Dollar is strong. But this is backfiring as Russia, India, China and others are instead buying up Gold Reserves in tonnes. This is perhaps deliberate by globalist economic architects to build up a New World Order which requires destroying America as a symbolic sacrificial lamb both by crushing it economically as has been ongoing all along.
    –
    The American Government was infiltrated by Communist Errors long ago! The government is run by the Federal Reserve and the Council of Foreign Relations and Trilateral Commission who hand pick the leaders of both parties. But this has destroyed the nation.
    –
    Now the tensions we witness are either staged in preparation for Global War, or there is a conflict between East and West as to who will be in charge once Global Government has been established, which either way will require another terrible war as a pretext to get the surviving nations who are not annihilated to agree to a new Global Body of Government, a new Global Central Bank and a new Global Currency System.

19. Vladimir Putin to leave G20 early after ‘tense’ meeting with David Cameron
    –
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/vladimir-putin/11232995/Vladimir-Putin-to-leave-G20-early-after-tense-meeting-with-David-Cameron.html
    –
    Another example of Western leaders continuing to lie about Russia’s involvement in the Ukraine and antagonize Russia into conflict over a situation that Western Governments are solely responsible for. The West wants another World War badly and they needs an excuse and an enemy. If they need to manufacture one, then that’s what they’ll do as they’ve done it the past.

20. CHINA’S MILITARY BUDGET COULD SOON BE AS BIG AS AMERICA’S
    –
    http://www.infowars.com/chinas-military-budget-could-soon-be-as-big-as-americas/
    –
    China and Russia, are using their resources to build up their military to counter the U.S. which has largely expended their budget on conflicts around the world. China also feels pressured by the U.S. for its own economic rise in power (though the Chinese Economy is likewise an illusion), but some suspicious Western interests continue to invest and provide strategic aid to China, particularly in technology manufacturing.
    –
    Key blurb from the article –
    “For example, historians say that declining empires tend to attack their rising rivals … so the risk of world war is rising because the U.S. feels threatened by the rising empire of China. Indeed, the U.S. government considers economic rivalry to be a basis for war. And (according to one measure) China’s economy is already bigger than America’s. The U.S. is in fact systematically using its military to contain China’s growing economic influence. We warned in 2012 that the U.S. had re-started the Cold War with Russia. Indeed, the U.S. has been encircling Russia for decades, and may be attempting to carry out regime change in that country. China may not sit idly by while Russia – its close ally and economic partner – is challenged. China has also warned against an attack on Iran. This is relevant because the U.S. made the decision to threaten to bomb Iran before 9/11, has been actively planning regime change in Iran for 20 years, and actually carried out regime change 60 years ago. Indeed, the U.S. may be attempting to carry out regime change in China itself. In addition, we’re in the middle of a currency war, and China is eroding the dollar’s status as world reserve currency. Currency wars often lead to shooting wars. And numerous top financial experts warn that the U.S. may launch World War 3 to distract the public from our failing economy.”

21. The lies of the west are the downfall of the west. Just like the ‘papacy’. The contemporary Roman Catholic ‘church’ is simply now the ‘world’; it is a ‘church’ of imposters/hirelings for imposters; full of fables for itching ears.

22. OBAMA ADMITS ISIS STRATEGY ABOUT DEPOSING ASSAD
    The Obama administration has officially conceded the military effort in Syria is not about attacking the Islamic State. It is about removing Bashar al-Assad from power.
    http://www.infowars.com/obama-admits-isis-strategy-about-deposing-assad/
    –
    How convenient of ISIS to pop up when earlier attempts to bomb Syria didn’t work out! Even more odd is that ISIS is made up of Syrian rebels fighting against the Syrian government. I wonder which country supported them before hmmm? Pope Francis will have to do better than a Day of World Prayer and Muslim ecumenism if he wants peace. I don’t think Russia’s in any position to stop this a second time, unless of course he does what Our Lady asks… And we all know that he knows what’s up thanks to the efforts of the Fatima Center.

23. Idiot American capitalist apologists have for years let American companies move production to China. What did they think China would do with all those dollars that they received from the American consumer? We literally have funded our own destruction.

24. Dear Elizabeth, My2cents, marykpkj,
    Simeon’s and my comments are related to Mr. V’s comments as far as they concern the reason that Our Lady allowed Pope JPII to live through the assassination attempt on May 13, 1981. I agree with Mr. V that it was so that we with eyes to see can know for certain that JPII was not the pope of the Third Secret of Fatima. Simeon’s well intentioned belief is that Pope JPII’s life was spared so that he could institute the divine mercy devotion. I was pointing out the insidious dangers that are built into the divine mercy devotion to show that this could not possibly be the reason why Our Lady spared JPII. I would put this devotion in the same category with the World Youth Day and Assisi abominations that Louie mentioned.
    ______
    Because the divine mercy apparitions are a private revelation, we the faithful are not obligated to believe them. So to answer you comment #4 as to checking with Jesus my King as to the reason why He asked for this DM chaplet to be said on the Rosary beads, I do not think that Jesus, my King, did appear to Sr. Faustina. I believe that it was an imposter who does not have a heart. All of this is mentioned in the link that I listed above.
    _____
    Your comment #2 says “The Divine Mercy Image is for us to contemplate the Blood and Water which gushed forth as a fountain of mercy for us…..” I think it is important to contemplate the fact that blood and water are liquid and not rays of light. In Sister Lucia’s last vision at Tuy, Spain, liquid blood did flow forth from Our Lord’s pierced Heart, Hands and Head into a golden chalice.
    ______
    I think the diabolical divine mercy devotion has everything to do with the Fatima message —— in its attempt to replace it. Our Lady appeared to the three children at Fatima and asked them (and us) for penance, the Rosary and devotion to Her Immaculate Heart. When only 2 years later (after Our Lady asked for consecration of Russia to Her Immaculate Heart at Tuy, Spain, in 1929), Our Lord supposedly appeared in 1931 to Sr. Faustina with not a word about reparation or penance, but only speaks about mercy, mercy, mercy, then there seems to be a major miscommunication between Our Lord and Our Lady. (And we know that is not possible, so there must be another party at work with Sr. Faustina.)
    ______
    The “new church” needed a New Mass, and a new “Rosary”(the divine mercy chaplet), and even a new “Fatima message” (divine mercy message) —— one that speaks only of God’s mercy with no need for reparation for our sins and no need even for confession. At the end of one’s life the divine mercy chaplet need only to be recited at the dying person’s bedside to gain heaven. This is all part of the diabolical disorientation of which Lucia spoke.
    ____
    So although we disagree on everything else, I agree with Simeon that the divine mercy devotion has everything to do with the Fatima message.

25. Lou,

    I ask your consideration and support for this petition. I believe that it is particularly the duty of influential laymen to make it known. You know better than most if it is valid and whether it should be moved, which I believe it does.

    http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/petition2CardinalsReFrancis

    Please consider reading it, and doing a post on it…that will give it more visibility.

26. Servant of Our Lady: thank you for at least recognizing my “well-intentioned belief.” As believers we should be praying for each other and souls. So this is spoken in love and respect. It is obvious you have a “well-intentioned belief” against the Divine Mercy devotion. And while you have the personal right to reject it, one should be careful in advising others to do the same. In this, I would sincerely ask you to understand you are not only disputing St. Faustina as a visionary, but the findings of her spiritual confessor, her Mother Superior, and all the nuns of the Congregation of the Sisters of Our Lady of Mercy, who genuinely like you, were Servants of Our Lady. These people all lived with Faustina and supported her in the 1920s-’30s, when there was only the true Mass.
    Importantly, the true mark of any prophet is whether or not their predictions have come to pass. In St. Faustina’s case, she made three prophecies to take note of. The first, that because many religious, as Jesus said to her, had become “lukewarm souls,” he would allow churches and convents to be closed. Since that was given and published before the crisis and scandal, one can see it has come true in spades. It is reminiscent of Leo XIII’s vision in which the Lord said He would allow the evil one that time and power to try to destroy His Church (and, again, to understand Fatima, one must look back and forward and this should start with this 1884 prophecy).
    The second was that the Divine Mercy Feast would be misunderstood by the Church initially before it would approve it and that her confessor would have to suffer terribly for spreading it, both of which came to pass.
    The third one is the one yet to be fulfilled, that as Mary told St. Faustina, she must be “pleading for humanity and preparing the world for the Second Coming” of Her Son. This is forward (yet to come, but to come soon) and is the end result to the prophecies of Fatima.
    No one who believes in Jesus and Mary should ever think that Heaven does not have an unfolding plan in which our King and Queen choose to reveal through private revelation, especially when that revelation meets with such belief by those who personally dealt with the visionary (a nun who suffered terribly and died at the age of 33).
    As for the claim that Jesus said nothing to St. Faustina about penance, I once again suggest that reading her diary will easily dispute that claim as opposed to claims you may be reading on line. In fact, specifically addressing the lukewarm religious souls, Jesus told Faustina: ” … if they do not repent and become enkindled by their first love, I will deliver them over to the fate of this world” (sounds like something we have been reading in the news?) Jesus went on to say: “How can they sit on the promised Throne of Judgment to judge the world when their guilt is greater than the guilt of the world. There is neither penance nor atonement.”
    As an aside, those of us who follow this devotion believe why St. Faustina suffered the most for religious souls whose “guilt is greater than the guilt of the world.” Her greatest suffering, she said, occurred on December 17, 1936. What St. Faustina did not know is this is the day Jorge Bergoglio was born.
    Servant of Our Lady, with great respect and for all your love for Our Lady and prayers you offer Her, please consider your words carefully when you make a public claim that the individual who appeared to St. Faustina was “an imposter who does not have a heart.” No demon would tell a nun to pray for souls using the Lord’s Prayer, Hail Mary and the Apostles’ Creed.
    As I said and you have rightly recognized in your disagreement, my whole point is to answer Louie’s very important question.
    In that regard, we are not off topic and I will throw another reason why Our Lady saved John Paul’s life, which led him to believe he was the pope She spoke of.
    It is an event most took no notice of, but which is today far more significant than the consecration of Russia, which is nowhere on the radar screen of our entire hierarchy as Our Lady originally requested.
    The event occurred on October 8, 2000 in St. Peter’s Square before an overcapacity crowd and 1,400 cardinals and bishops. On his knees, despite his frail health before the Fatima statue with the bullet in its crown, John Paul did not consecrate a nation, nor a world. Instead, John Paul consecrated a millennium — the 3rd Millennium to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. Yes, of course, it was not what Our Lady asked, but this is where She inspired him to go when the Church would not fulfill Her Fatima request.
    So it is no longer a nation, but a Millennium that is now consecrated. One in which Our Lady’s Triumph will occur as a result sooner rather than later.
    Everyone can disregard what I am pointing out, but what I am trying to do is make all realize there is far greater activity going on spiritually that is a result of the Church’s failure to fulfill Mary’s Fatima Command.
    Some of the failure results are darker, such as the ascension to the Throne of Peter by one Jorge Bergoglio.
    In others, it is brighter, a sign of hope, of Mercy, of the Coming Triumphant.
    And that, as in all things Heaven does from the Alpha to the Omega, is all coordinated. My concern is the focus on Fatima without comprehending the Lord and His Mother have not stood still while Their Church has failed.
    Their Victory, and no matter what any of us believe, is what we should all be praying for. Not another vicar, another president, but the Reign of the Sacred Hearts on Earth as it is in the Glory of Heaven.
    Let us disagree, let us debate, but let us realize everything is connected, including Mary miraculously saving John Paul’s life, not for Assisi or WYD, but for Divine Mercy and a Millennium.
    And that’s why trying to answer Louie’s question is extremely important, whether one chooses to accept what is stated or not; for it is, because Heaven is involved, all is part of the Fatima discussion..

27. Dear Servant of Our Lady,
    I thank you for your input on the Divine Mercy history and devotion. From what I had learned earlier, I’ve had no desire to be involved with it. Your link will give me more to consider. And speaking of the blog’s topic, JPII, neither do I desire to change my weekly rotations to add the Luminous Mysteries. Not that I believe there’s anything diabolical about them, just a personal feeling about accepting this from one who kissed the Koran. There is another apparition which dovetails well with Fatima, I believe, the Akita message. I believe we’ll all need to pray for Our Lord’s mercy real soon…

28. Louie, your point about JPII not being SAVED to bring about “Assisi”, relates well to Fatima’s greatest concerns: the preservation and teaching of Dogma; and the prevention of many souls going to Hell, as it resulted from ignoring the anathamas agaist ecumenism issued by the Church in the past.
    ___
    These “errors” have now progressed to where we now have to witness Assisi’s sequals being promoted by a Hierarchy and Pope which tries to give the heresy of indifferentism a face-lift as “The forward movement of the Holy Spirit” and attempts to relabel the Divine Mission of the Church (to call all nations to conversion and Baptism), as “the sin of focussing on differences” another “cause of divisions- which all come only from the devil.”
    ___
    Another poster pointed out that TOMORROW, another ecumenical “first” is to begin “live-streaming” for 3 days (of darkness?)from the Vatican around the world. http://www.catholicworldreport.com/Blog/3499/a_vatican_mulligan.aspx
    33 speakers-most from false religions- are invited–based on the common denominator of holding “marriage to be between one man and woman”.
    But will the Pope’s opening speech call any of them to the conversion so necessary for their salvation, as the mandate of Christ requires?
    ___
    Last year, Argentinian sect leaders were nearly jumping out of their skins, calling Jorge Bergoglio’s election “an answer to our prayers,” because ” His priority is unity at the level of the people.” and saying “We think that a new time is coming for the Catholic Church”.
    ___…
    David Ruiz, World Evangelica Mission Commission: said:
    “Bergoglio is recognized as a..conciliator and a friend. “This is for Catholics . a time of reflection about what is the meaning of the great mystery ‘Christ in you, the hope of glory,'” said Ruiz. “To learn how to join hands in the mission..
    –“It is not a secret that the global paradigm shift taking place in Christianity is becoming more and more evident.. ” “After spending some time LOOKING FOR AN IDENTITY, both Catholics and Evangelicals are particularly well positioned to take an unparalleled role in global evangelization.” “Bergoglio may change the tenor of what at times seems like “sectarian competition”.
    ___
    The interviewer noted that while Bergoglio spent 40 years tending the flock among that traditionally Catholic Nation (from 1973-2013) “it was a time when the region’s Protestant communities saw rapid growth”
    =====
    Whatever prayers we all include in our daily lives, let us not neglect the Holy Mass and the daily Rosary which Our Lady requested to help bring about the collegial Consecration and conversion of Russia. Until that is done, the terrible fulfillment of the 3rd secret- prophecy looms on the horizon, and is still only one of the many chastisements we have to endure until Our Lady is heeded fully.

29. Simeon and Servant of Our Lady, I apologize for my abrupt comment early in this thread. There are so many ideas about why the shooting of JPII did not mesh with the third secret, and I get stuck on my own opinion, that it just hasn’t happened and that it still needs to be done.
    As for the question of why Our Lady may have saved JPII, I probably shouldn’t speculate, but I will. It might be for his own personal salvation. He lived his final years in illness with others doing his work for him, and he was powerless to influence them (not that he would have made better choices). Maybe the suffering was just for his salvation. It doesn’t appear that any good came to the Church because of it.
    Finally, regarding the Divine Mercy Chaplet: A dear priest was questioned about it. He said that if you pray your Rosary daily, then you can add other prayers, including that one. Another priest mentioned that the feast day takes the focus off of the Octave of Easter, the biggest feast day of the Church.

30. I wonder what Pius XI would have to say about Assisi I & II along with the coming Interfaith dialog tomorrow on marriage — being live-streamed —
    – From paragraph 2 of Mortalium Animos:
    “For which reason conventions, meetings and addresses are frequently arranged by these persons, at which a large number of listeners are present, and at which all without distinction are invited to join in the discussion, both infidels of every kind, and Christians, even those who have unhappily fallen away from Christ…”
    “Certainly such attempts can nowise be approved by Catholics, founded as they are on that false opinion which considers all religions to be more or less good and praiseworthy”
    “Not only are those who hold this opinion in error and deceived, but also in distorting the idea of true religion they reject it, and little by little, turn aside to naturalism and atheism, as it is called; from which it clearly follows that one who supports those who hold these theories and attempt to realize them, is altogether abandoning the divinely revealed religion.”
    — Okay, I don’t really wonder…

31. Dear Mike,
    Thank you for your kind words. You mentioned Akita dovetails with Fatima; have you also seen Our Lady of Good Success?
    ______________
    Dear marykpkj,
    You said, “Another priest mentioned that the feast day takes the focus off of the Octave of Easter, the biggest feast day of the Church.” Good point. I had heard that also.
    _______________
    Dear simeon,
    Thank you for your words of love and respect and for keeping me in your prayers. You are certainly mine. May God bless you.
    ______________
    Dear Roman Watcher,
    Thank you for that link to the petition. Amazing. I hope Mr. Verrecchio gives his input about its validity.

32. Catholic Traditionalist Struggles with Geocentrism
    Robert debates a traditional Catholic who is questioning Geocentrism.
    –
    http://galileowaswrong.com/catholic-traditionalist-struggles-with-geocentrism/
    –
    Good lengthy article and rebuttal by Mr. Sungenis. Folks, there’s a reason the Miracle of Fatima involved the Sun and its movements in the sky. It’s because ever since the Devil inspired men to err from the Scriptures and the Church’s pronounced judgments against the formal heresy of Galileo and Copernicus, the world has been steadily drinking from the poisoned well of science that leaves it disoriented, not knowing which way is up or down, but that all things are relative, from physics to morality.
    –
    If any of you are in Chicago, then go watch the Principle movie!

33. War with Isis: Islamic militants have army of 200,000, claims senior Kurdish leader
    –
    Exclusive: CIA has hugely underestimated the number of jihadis, who now rule an area the size of Britain
    –
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/war-with-isis-islamic-militants-have-army-of-200000-claims-kurdish-leader-9863418.html
    –
    ISIS 7X BIGGER THAN WEST BELIEVES
    –
    ISIS rules a third of Iraq and a third of Syria

34. Dear Johnno,
    Thanks for this info. While we normally take size of forces- estimates with the proverbial “grain of salt”, knowing it’s easier for those currently under fire to overestimate the strength of the enemy; some things stand out in this report-that lend credibility to to–like the significant number of simultaneous fronts ISIS is said to be successfully working, coupled with their ability to “recruit and re-arm-as -they conquer” .
    “… it has been launching attacks against the Kurds in northern Iraq and the Iraqi army close to Baghdad at the same time as it is fighting in Syria. “They are fighting in Kobani,” “In Kurdistan last month they were attacking in seven different places as well as in Ramadi and Jalawla .”
    –It’s common knowledge that in both Afghanistan and Iraq, tribesmen have often switched sides depending on who seems to be winning; so the more ISIS is able to terrorize with the degree of brutality already reported, the weaker the resistance is likely to become, without a lot more outside help.
    –. It’s the rawest test of Faith and values there is-pitting eternal life against earthly freedom from torture- and death.. We can only wonder whether our Faith would stand such tests, and pray harder for those currently facing them.

35. p.s. In light of that increased threat, maybe this one becomes more serious too?
    Sounds like the Fatima Prophecy of the 3rd Secret may be in their plans:\
    :
    MARCH ON ROME, CLAIMED UNSTOPPABLE
    ANSA) – New York, November 13 – ISIS (Thursday) released an audio message purportedly by its leader, Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, in a bid to disprove unconfirmed reports of his death or injury in a recent United States air strike.
    __
    “Make the volcanoes of jihad erupt everywhere,” the audio message said.
    “The crusaders’ missiles will not stop our advance on Rome”.
    __
    In it, a man identified as al-Baghdadi references President Barack Obama’s announcement Friday that the US will send 1,500 additional troops to Iraq, according to the SITE Intelligence Group, which monitors global terrorist activity.

36. http://www.ansa.it/english/news/world/2014/11/13/our-march-on-rome-unstoppable-isis_717cb1e5-a2f0-4cee-a56c-d66ea4ad2220.html

37. The most important reason for keeping to the traditional 15 decades might be that this is the number given to St Dominic by OUR LADY. As well, the 150 Hail Marys represent Our Lady’s Psalter – those who could not read and pray the 150 Psalms could say the Hail Marys instead.
    —
    One interesting note: Our Lord told St. Peter to lower his nets after a full night of catching nothing. When the nets were pulled up they were full to the breaking point with fish: 153 fish. There is nothing accidental where Our Lord is concerned. There are 150 Hail Marys in the Rosary, and 3 more at the beginning when we pray for an increase of Faith, Hope, and Charity.
    —
    You wanna mess with that? Not me!!!

38. Dear Indignus:
    You are correct when you question size of force estimates provide by Kurds. Not only are the Kurds under attack, they are a nation without a country. They have a long history of independence movements, and their agenda is to carve out a country out of not only Iraq, but Turkey and Iran as well. Providing larger than life force estimates allows/will allow them to “get” more arms/equipment once one of the major (US actually) powers decides that the time is right for nation building. Sad to say this, but I voted for W twice. And I don’t regret it, which is the unfortunate thing. It’s one thing to make a mistake, but quite another to compound it. But then again, there was not choice.
    –
    Next thing that one needs to keep in mind is that we are dealing with irregular forces. It is easy to concentrate forces in battlefield environments like those in the middle east. A good case in point is Rommel’s Afrika Korp or the British 7th Armour Division (Desert Rats). The later at the outbreak of the war had some 50 tanks and several hundred men. (Sorry, it’s been awhile) and was able to create such destruction on the Italians that the Afrika Korps had to be sent in to bail the Italian’s proverbial chestnuts out of the fire. Anyways, so all things being equal, I would not discount the 31k estimates so easily.
    –
    As to motivation, this is where the difference is. Yes, the mobilization of the ISIS forces has been rapid. One needs to take the religious aspects into account. However, the key is the following passage:
    .
    “In an impoverished region with few jobs, Isis pay of $400 (£250) a month is also attractive. Moreover, Mr Hussein says that in the places they have conquered Isis is remodelling society in its own image, aiming to educate people into accepting Isis ideology.”
    .
    And a good case in point is the following, which actually leads to the South American “friends of the bishop of Rome” indirectly. Before the 2008 fiscal crisis, the Colombian revolutionary movement (FARC) has a huge problem. It could not find enough ‘fighter’ because the economy was booming, and everyone was involved in the “obscene capitalist” activity of making money. The way in which the FARC relieved it’s manning problems was by striking a deal with Chavez whereby the Venezuelans transferred some of their regulars to “help the bothers out”. And the funniest part was that the revolution theology crowd acted in the capacity of unofficial recruiter for the FARC. Got to wonder how far up the hierarchical structures the support for the recruiters went.
    _
    So my take would be as follows. Yes ISIS can recruit. But they are taking in men with former military service. These are mainly economic motivated rather than religious. The terror element is big, but it is not a good motivator in the mid to long term. Eventually, the ringleaders are identified and disposed of. We know how what the squaddies think of their officers. 😉 And when that happens, entire battle formations disintegrate. Even regular ones. Think Napoleon in Moscow.

39. Dear S.Armaticus,
    We’re definitely looking in from the outside on this one, not making any predictions, or claiming any great understanding. .We do remember thinking it strange that a few reports from back when ISIS made it’s first few successful attacks in Iraq, were claiming it was such a rag-tag bunch of alliances -mostly held together by a desire to oust their religious/political opponents from Baghdad (although the $$ angle was also acknowledged ) and the world shouldn’t worry because it would all fall apart in a few months time.
    Just seemed like it lasted a lot longer than that, and we’re still hearing all the same reasons it shouldn’t last. Coupled with the way God used Israel’s enemies in the Old Testament, sometimes giving them great successes against all the odds, we’re thinking what happens from here on may not exactly follow logic and reason as much as God’s plans for chastising an unbelieving world and a Church unwilling to go out and convert the nations. So the whole thing could be like the Pope keeps reminding us God sometimes is–full of “surprises”.

40. Dear Elizabeth, My2cents, marykpkj,
    ______
    Because the divine mercy apparitions are a private revelation, we the faithful are not obligated to believe them…
    Lionel:
    For me this is a lot of nonsense written above. Please read the Diary of St. Faustina Kowalska. I would highly recommend it. Then post on this subject.
    ____________________________________

    I think the diabolical divine mercy devotion has everything to do with the Fatima message
    Lionel:
    ‘diabolical divine mercy’ ?
    ‘with not a word about reparation or penance’??
    Have you read the Diary?? Do you know what you are saying here?
    _____________________________________________

    ‘ with no need for reparation for our sins and no need even for confession’
    Lionel.
    Please read the book and find out for yourself, first hand.
    _____________________________________________

41. Can the Church Depose an Heretical Pope?
    –
    http://remnantnewspaper.com/web/index.php/articles/item/1284-can-the-church-depose-an-heretical-pope
    –
    A very edifying and well researched article! For awhile I have been entertaining Sedevacantist arguments and looking for a satisfying solution. This article at the Remnant by Robert J. Siscoe now resolves the situation in my mind which brings me great peace of mind! It is not my responsibility as a layman to wonder over whether who is or isn’t the Pope any more. That will always solely belong to the Church to establish such truths for me. Until then I humbly rest upon her to make such confusing decisions known.
    –
    If ever I was tempted to wander away from accepting Pope Francis as the true holder of office, then this article make me comfortable and glad to take that grave and complex responsibility off my shoulders and rest it with faith upon the Church to solve it for us. It is a refreshing and liberating thing to look at Tradition and the writings of those faithful Church theologians and to see that they have wrestled and addressed the situation in full detail. Wonderful!
    –
    This is precisely the sort of discussion and education that more Catholics ought to be aware of and learn about. Those naysayers who imagine that such discussion is dangerous to the faith of Catholics and pressure Traditional sites that fully engage and explore these issues as being dangerous to the faith or argue it’ll confuse or lead people away, couldn’t be more wrong and boneheaded! What we need is courage and more clarity to investigate and learn about such matters. Not cover it all up, make excuses, engage in mental gymnastics and pretend otherwise! Only those willing to grab the bull by the horns and wrestle with such difficult topics will find their faith and loyalty to the Church and the Pope greatly strengthened and rewarded!

42. CARDINAL KOCH THINKS THE END OF COMMUNIST RULE WAS BAD BECAUSE IT LED TO RESURGENCE OF EASTERN CATHOLICISM THAT MAKES ECUMENISM WITH RUSSIAN ORTHODOX DIFFICULT!
    –
    RIDICULOUS!
    –
    End of communism not all good for Christianity: Vatican
    –
    http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/11/17/us-vatican-communism-idUSKCN0J123C20141117
    –
    The end of communist rule in Europe, which began 25 years ago this month, was not all positive for Christianity because it brought tensions between Rome and Russia back to the surface, a senior Vatican official said on Monday.
    –
    Cardinal Kurt Koch, the top Roman Catholic official for inter-church relations, said the re-emergence of Eastern Catholic churches in Ukraine and Romania after decades of suppression had created major tensions with the Russian Orthodox Church.
    –
    Russian Orthodox leaders have accused the Vatican-aligned Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church of trying to take back churches and woo away believers from the Moscow Orthodox Patriarchate. The Ukrainian church and the Vatican deny this.
    –
    Moscow prelates cite this as a hurdle to closer ties between the Orthodox and the Catholic Church, which for decades prayed for the conversion of the Soviet Union only to see the newly resurgent Russian Orthodox Church become a difficult partner.
    –
    “The changes in 1989 were not advantageous for ecumenical relations,” Koch told Vatican Radio. “The Eastern Catholic churches banned by Stalin re-emerged, especially in Ukraine and Romania, and from the Orthodox came the old accusation about Uniate churches and proselytism.”
    –
    “Uniate” refers to eastern churches with Orthodox-style liturgies that recognize the pope as their spiritual leader.
    –
    Persecution of Christians in the Middle East has brought Catholics, Orthodox and Protestants there together, he said, but the Ukraine crisis has heightened tensions among churches.
    –
    …
    –
    “We’ve repeatedly heard major complaints from the Russian Orthodox,” he said. “This is unfortunate because churches are supposed to be a factor for unity and reconciliation.”
    –
    Metropolitan Hilarion, the number two man in the Moscow Patriarchate, used his guest presentation to a Vatican synod on the family last month to accuse the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church of trying to poach believers from Orthodoxy.

43. Strange unknown light illuminating Russian sky?
    http://www.infowars.com/chelyabinsk-meteor-2-massive-flash-over-russias-urals-stuns-locals-scientists/

44. UKRAINE ADMITS ITS GOLD IS GONE: “THERE IS ALMOST NO GOLD LEFT IN THE CENTRAL BANK VAULT”
    –
    http://www.infowars.com/ukraine-admits-its-gold-is-gone-there-is-almost-no-gold-left-in-the-central-bank-vault/
    –
    Lending credence to earlier rumours during the upheaval that Ukrainian gold was being put on air-planes bound for the U.S. :
    –
    “Tonight, around at 2:00 am, an unregistered transport plane took off took off from Boryspil airport. According to Boryspil staff, prior to the plane’s appearance, four trucks and two cargo minibuses arrived at the airport all with their license plates missing. Fifteen people in black uniforms, masks and body armor stepped out, some armed with machine guns. These people loaded the plane with more than forty heavy boxes.
    –
    After this, several mysterious men arrived and also entered the plane. The loading was carried out in a hurry. After unloading, the plateless cars immediately left the runway, and the plane took off on an emergency basis.
    –
    Airport officials who saw this mysterious “special operation” immediately notified the administration of the airport, which however strongly advised them “not to meddle in other people’s business.”
    –
    Later, the editors were called by one of the senior officials of the former Ministry of Income and Fees, who reported that, according to him, tonight on the orders of one of the “new leaders” of Ukraine, all the gold reserves of the Ukraine were taken to the United States.”
    –
    …
    –
    Oddly enough there was no official gold reduction just prior to the time when Victoria “[expletive]” Nuland was planning Yanukovich’s ouster, and as shown above, quite the contrary. It is a little more odd that it was during the period when Ukraine was “supported” by its western allies that several billion dollars worth of physical gold – the people’s gold – just “vaporized.”
    –
    In any event, now that the disappearance of Ukraine’s gold has been confirmed, perhaps it is time to refresh the “unconfirmed” story that a little after the current Ukraine regime took power the bulk of Ukraine’s gold was taken to the United States.
    –
    As of this writing, The NY Fed has still not answered our March request for a comment whether Ukraine’s gold has been redomiciled at the gold vault located some 80 feet below Liberty 33.

45. Spy Games
    –
    Retaliating, Russia deports Polish, German diplomats
    –
    http://www.bostonglobe.com/news/world/2014/11/18/russia-deports-several-diplomats-warns-will-defend-separatists-ukraine/0dugOLup1NQ5fYeTwBrI5I/story.html
    –
    The Russian Foreign Ministry statement about the Polish diplomats Monday said they were being deported “for activity incompatible with their status.” It did not give specifics about the expelled diplomats, but an official in the Polish Foreign Ministry said they were three military attaches and one employee in the embassy’s political section.
    –
    The official, speaking on the condition of anonymity under the ministry’s rules, said Poland had expelled equivalent people from the Russian embassy in Warsaw several weeks ago.
    –
    “We expected Russians to respond in exactly the same manner, and so they did,” the official said. “As far as we are concerned, the case is closed.”
    –
    Poland deported the four Russian diplomats in connection with the arrests of a Polish army officer and a Russian-born lawyer. Marek Biernacki, Poland’s minister of justice, said both men were spies for the Main Intelligence Directorate, Russia’s largest foreign intelligence agency.
    –
    The German case was similar. The report in Der Spiegel said Germany had expelled a Russian diplomat for spying while stationed at the Russian consulate in Bonn, prompting the Russians to send a German diplomat home.
    –
    “We deeply regret this unjustified action and have made this clear to the Russian government,” said a German government official who did not give his name, in keeping with policy regarding sensitive diplomatic issues. He declined to give any further information.
    –
    Russia has leveled spying accusations of its own. On Saturday, a report on Russian state television said that Alexejs Holostovs, a former member of the Latvian Parliament, had been expelled from Russia. In the report, Holostovs said he was sent to Russia to spy for Latvia’s intelligence services, which he said were controlled by the CIA.
    –
    Russia has also said it arrested an Estonian intelligence officer, Eston Kohver, on Russian soil and said he was carrying $6,000 in cash and a Taurus pistol. Estonia has said that Russian agents crossed the border under the cover of smoke grenades and electronic jamming to abduct Kohver.

46. Russia is Moving Toward Banning Abortions
    –
    Theres a serious popular movement afoot in Russia to ban abortions – pushed by the Russian church and a groundswell of public opinion
    Here’s the latest move by the activists
    –
    http://russia-insider.com/en/business_opinion_culture_society/2014/11/09/05-48-31pm/russian_civic_chamber_proposes_ban_state
    –
    A year ago deputies of the Samara Regional Duma submitted a bill to amend article no. 35 of the federal law, “On compulsory medical insurance in the Russian Federation” to the Russian Federation’s State Duma Commission for health protection.
    –
    They are proposing to stop the financing of abortions at the expense of the state budget.
    –
    On October 31, 2014, at the Civic Chamber participants of the hearings of the Volunteer Work Commission discussed the issues of rights to life for unborn children, reports the Civic Chamber’s website.
    –
    “70 years ago, a new morality was created in Europe, according to which the youth should be maximumally socialized already at an early age. As a result of this young men assaulted young girls, the number of sexually transmitted diseases and, above all, of abortions among schoolgirls increased,” noted Archpriest Dimitry Smirnov, chairman of the Patriarchal Commission for Family and Protection of Motherhood and Childhood.
    –
    According to him, “it did no good except for the enormous profit to pharmaceutical companies. And all this took place “under the aegis of the UN.”

47. Dear Johnno,
    We wonder if your above link has any connection to this one, brought to our attention yesterday.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/11/18/a-mysterious-russian-space-object-revives-speculation-about-satellite-killer/?tid=hp_mm

48. Should “maximally socialised” not read “maximally sexualised”?

    Also, apart from the moral imperative, Russia has seen demographic collapse that will be very difficult to recover from were all killing of babies prior to birth, and all contraception, to cease from this point in time.

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