At this moment in human history when the Church is under attack from within at the hands of hierarchs who lack the wherewithal to proclaim the Social Kingship of Our Lord Jesus Christ, every single, solitary individual who calls himself Catholic, whether he knows it or not, is deeply indebted to +Archbishop Marcel-François Lefebvre.
How so?
In short, for standing against the tide of unbridled novelty that crashed against the Barque of Peter after the Council in order to preserve the treasure that was handed to him; that he might faithfully pass it on in all integrity to others, for the benefit of generations to come.
Among those who have benefited most, and rather directly so, is every priest of the Roman Rite today who celebrates the traditional Mass; including certain woefully ignorant self-promoting clerics who reap the blessed fruits of +Archbishop Lefebvre’s labor with one hand whilst pointing a calumnous finger at the Society of St. Pius X with the other.
In any event, on the 21st of September 2014, as a direct attack against Christ the King was taking place in the form of a Satanic “Black Mass” in Oklahoma City, the SSPX provided a stellar example of what the Church Militant looks like in action as you can see for yourself in the video below.
Writing for Catholic Family News, Dr. Brian McCall described the grace-filled events that led to the magnificent public act of reparation shown in the video. Please, take a moment to read his beautifully written testimony.
When you have finished, offer an Ave Maria for any insecure little priest who, motivated perhaps more by a hatred of others than a love for the Church, may feel compelled to throw stones at the SSPX, thereby misleading the groupies (both small in mind and small in number) who, God help them, put faith in his putrid opinions.
May the true soldiers of Christ unite against all enemies – pray the SSPX stay away from the deliberate mess that is ‘Rome’. And lest we forget, it was the anti-saint Wojtyla who excommunicated Archbishop Lefebvre. “The Church is Tradition. Essential for her mission of sanctifying, ruling and teaching is the transmission of what she herself has received from her divine Founder, from generation to generation, until the end of time, without change in its essentials. That is what Msgr. Lefebvre acknowledged to have been his life’s mission: Tradidi quod et accepi–I have transmitted what I have received, and the mission he entrusted to the Society of St. Pius X.” -Reflections on the Kingship of Christ-
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True clergy must have true Apostolic succession – does the NO rite of ordination permit this? (and it has already reached its tentacles into the SSPX) Without true priests, the Real Presence is taken away from us, and without the ability to confect the sacrament, such a mass becomes black.
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Christ rules; He is in heaven, He stays with us to the ‘close of the Age’ in the Blessed Sacrament, and He graces His flock of Faithful mind on earth through the actions of the Holy Ghost. But what if the tabernacles become hollow, empty of Christ? Pope Pius XII certainly forsaw that they might. “I am worried by the Blessed Virgin’s messages to Lucy of Fatima. This persistence of Mary about the dangers which menace the Church is a divine warning against the suicide of altering the Faith, in Her liturgy, Her theology and Her soul…A day will come when the civilized world will deny its God…In our churches, Christians will search in vain for the red lamp where God awaits them, like Mary Magdalene weeping before the empty tomb, they will ask, “where have they taken Him?” Bp Williamson’s latest message talks about Father Pel (whom Padre Pio considered a living saint in his day): “Fr Pel would spend nights on his feet in church with his forehead leaning against the Tabernacle, conversing with God in a permanent ecstasy.”
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In the Novus Ordo, does the tabernacle, if you can find it, even have the Real Presence? I think the fruits of most ‘catholic parishes’ speaks for itself. St Augustine said that God holds His nose against the stench of heretical worship (who needs a ‘black mass’). But this very stench is what the Novus Ordo seems to prefer (Immaculate Conception, prevent such a stench from becoming acceptable to the SSPX!). Most NO adherents (clergy included) seem to prefer the world, its false ideologies, its false religions (ignoring that ‘moral’ principles based on false doctrines result in evil – false religions, by their very fact of being false cannot help but promote evil), and yet ecumenical clergy think it’s great. Why is the SSPX dallying with this? Novus Ordo loves celebrating sin like their ‘papa’ Bergoglio – that ‘wrecking ball’ who recently proclaimed that one encounters Christ essentially in one’s sins – more or less positing sin as the bridge that connects one to Christ?! No Vicar of Christ could or would ever dare put forth such a diabolical doctrine (all authentic priests stop calling this person Christ’s Vicar at Mass). Such a doctrine would mean that one who has preserved baptismal innocence has no encounter with Christ; that the truth of perseverance in the Faith is ridiculous and the very concept of a state of Grace has been ‘updated’ to the superiority of the state of sin. We have worldly leaders (Caesars) in every country and institution on the planet, and for fifty years, within the structures of the catholic church as well. The Vatican II heirarchy represents Moral and Dogmatic discontinuity, but so many self-proclaimed ‘traditionalist’ Catholics who know this continue to hold to that heirarchy because they feel that they are being loyal to the Church by being loyal to the structures which now ‘belong’ to Newchurch. Yet the purpose of such structures is to carry true doctine, discipline and worship – they are husks bereft of this. If one could fast-forward a few years, if the SSPX continue to finesse a desire to ‘get into bed’ with adulterated Rome…we only need look at the Franciscans of the Immaculate to know how that would end.
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In the Roberto de Mattei article, “The Reconciler”, he has this to say:
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“Over the last 50 years, the mutation of the Church’s language has had an effect on its contents, [thus] altering the deposit of the doctrine itself.”
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http://www.microsofttranslator.com/bv.aspx?from=it&to=en&a=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.robertodemattei.it%2F2014%2F07%2F28%2Fthe-reconciler%2F%23more-1007
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This, like many of the things said by trad Catholics, ‘posits the logic’ of sedevacantism, whilst refusing to reach the logical conclusion.
One really should not pay attention to that priest. He seems bothered and irritated which isn’t good. He belongs to Opus Dei. Just ignore him, pray, and stick with the SSPX.
Among those who have benefited most, and rather directly so, is every priest of the Roman Rite today who celebrates the traditional Mass; including certain woefully ignorant self-promoting clerics who reap the blessed fruits of +Archbishop Lefebvre’s labor with one hand whilst pointing a calumnous finger at the Society of St. Pius X with the other.
Lionel:
Vatican Council II was being interpreted with an irrational premise and we can still see the results before us. So Archbishop Lefebvre was correct. However he like Pope John Paul II was not aware that Vatican Council II could be interpreted with an irrational premise or without it. The Council text is neutral
Similarly the two SSPX groups and the good Opus Dei priest is not aware that the Council can be interpreted with Cushingism or Feeneyism.They are all using Cushingism.
The Letter of the Holy Office 1949 used an irrational premise and rejected a defined dogma and THEY ALL ACCEPTED THIS as normal.They accepted the Letter and rejected Feeneyism,which was traditional.
When Vatican Council II is interpreted with that same irrational premise, the traditionalists reject Vatican Council as not being traditional and they still reject Feeneyism. The liberals accept Vatican Council ( as a break with the past) and reject Feeneyism.The liberals are rejecting a Vatican Council II which is Feeneyite.
Among other things, I have to commend the Society for producing, as far as I can tell, the only clerical response (in English) to Bergoglio’s bombshell comment about “‘absolute’ truths” in his letter to Scalfari.
I does seem crazy-making to blacken the reputation of the Society of Pius X when their articles, responses, criticisms etc. make so much sense!
Unfortunately, because of the desperate state we find ourselves in, and the natural frustration with the lack of restoration to all things in Christ, some of the members of the Society have begun to believe “we have no pope.” This is simply boxing oneself into a position from which there is no exit.
Better to acknowledge our current Pope is a Modernist and pray, and work, to educate others. Restoration can never take hold if we keep each other in ignorance – but change will come from what we have now – it won’t come from outside the Church.
Support Father Gruner and The Fatima Crusade! I used to think he was nuts and wished he would just give it a rest. But educating myself about what he says, and what others around him say has changed my mind.
We do have a Pope. We need to pray for a more Catholic one in the future. Bottom line.
salvemur, thanks for posting the link to the de Mattei article. Very, very informative. The material is out there, and it makes for a sad read to be sure. But information is powerful – we know what we have to fight.
The Archbishop was not a confrontationalist, he tried to follow the rules but was kicked out of the club for doing so in a traditional way…
The modernists have been very successful in tagging the label “unfaithful to council” on him and his followers, so as to brow beat the rest of the Catholic world from following his virile example of resistance to their agenda…
What everyone needs to do, is to tell the local ordinary that we are not going to take it any more, fly a kite and ship out, we want a thoroughly catholic bishop who follows the Faith not a non infallible council proposed by liberals as a new gospel or koran…
I think we have the right, therefore, to refuse all papal nominations for local ordinaries and encourage local clergy and laity to elect catholic bishops…see no other way to restore the faith, unless we imitate the virility of the catholics of the Arian crisis who did just this, without scruple…
In this alone I disagree with the trad bishops of the SSPX, the fight must be in the dioceses, they are not going to win it by themselves…
The degradation and perversion of the language in line with an atheistic, relativist ideology has likewise been adopted in many Prolife organisations, doing great damage to the cause of truth and justice. Wake up! Be sober and watch. And pray. And act.
Thank you, holy Archbishop Lefebvre! Thank you, SSPX for holding fast to the true unchanging and unchangeable Faith and the Divine Law. Like most people under 55 or so, I suppose, I grew up being told that Archbishop Lefebvre was a most evil man. It was only as an adult, having learned the doctrine of the Faith (in spite of the efforts of my priests, bishops, “Catholic” teachers, etc.) and the truth about the Archbishop and the SSPX, that I came to realise I had been lied to about this as well. All in aid of the big lie, that the Faith was changeable and subject to false ideologies, so that those in thrall to Satan could destroy as many souls as possible through the papacy, the episcopate and the priesthood. Blessed Michael, the Archangel defend us in battle . . .
SSPX must not announce that they reject Vatican Council II
I hope the SSPX will not announce that they cannot accept Vatican Council II.
They must announce that they accept Vatican Council II interpreted without the irrational premise.They must announce that they accept Vatican Council II interpreted with Feeneyism.
They need to announce that they reject Vatican Council II, the Vatican Curia-version, interpreted with Cushingism.
They must announce that they accept Vatican Council II according to the SSPX General Chapter Statement 2012 which says there are no exceptions to extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
They must clarify that they accept Vatican Council II (without the premise) and also affirm Tradition.
They accept the baptism of desire and being saved in invincible ignorance as possibilities and not known realities in 2014 so they simultaneously also affirm ‘the rigorist interpretation’ of Fr.Leonard Feeney and the SSPX General Chapter Statement 2012 on extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
They must clarify that ‘the Hindu in Tibet’ whom Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre said is saved in his religion through Jesus and the Church,is not a visible exception in 2014 to all needing the baptism of water for salvation.
If the SSPX announces that they reject Vatican Council II it means they still do not understand that they are rejecting Vatican Council II according to Cushingism and are not aware of the other interpretation which is rational, pro-Tradition and which the liberals hate.
Dear Salvemur,
We realize you trust those with whom we disagree, like Father Cekada, but we believe the persistence you mentioned- of Our Lady when conversing with Sister Lucia- by continuing to refer to the Pontiffs as “The Holy Father” despite their many refusals to Consecrate Russia as she requested, reminds the Faithful that a true Pontiff can still be disobedient to God’s will, in dire need our prayers to convert that part of him which remains in error, and yet remain the true Pontiff, to whose will on earth Our Lady herself submits her own will despite the dire consequences to us all, for its being ignored.
-This use of the title “Holy Father”, by Our Heavenly Mother and Queen certaintly does not therefore apply to all his actions and thoughts, but demonstrates why its continued use in the prayers of the Mass for him, does not signify approval of all he does.
-Anne Catherine Emmerich -the Augustinian stigmatic nun and visionary who saw the future Church in crisis in the 1800’s, spoke of a vision of Our Lady at Mass, and noted particularly the changes since VII– yet made no condemnation of it as she did of the “false Church” in so many of her other visions:
“I had a vision of the holy Emperor Henry. I saw him at night kneeling alone at the foot of the main altar in a great and beautiful church … and I saw the Blessed Virgin coming down all alone. She laid on the altar a red cloth covered with white linen. She placed a book inlaid with precious stones. she lit the candles and the perpetual lamp. Then came the Saviour Himself clad in priestly vestments. He was carrying the chalice and the veil. Two angels were serving Him and two more were following … Although there was no altar bell, the cruets were there. The wine was as red as blood, and there was also some water. The Mass was short. The Gospel of St. John was not read at the end. When the Mass had ended, Mary came up to Henry, and she extended her right hand towards him, saying that it was in recognition of his purity. Then she urged him not to falter. Thereupon I saw an angel, and he touched the sinew of his hip, like Jacob. Henry was in great pain; and from that day on he walked with a limp … ”
Her vision continued”:”Very bad times will come when non-Catholics will lead many people astray. A great confusion will result. I saw the battle also. The enemies were far more numerous, but the small army of the faithful cut down whole rows of enemy soldiers. During the battle, the Blessed Virgin stood on a hill, wearing a suit armor. It was a terrible war. At the end, only a few fighters for the just cause survived, but the victory was theirs. ”
[Do any of the SSPX leaders have a limp, BTW?] 🙂
Anyway, since we disagree with you, we continue to pray Bishop Fellay and the SSPX are successful in serving to counteract the mess the Devil has created in Rome and elsewhere, in every way his organization can be useful to God’s plans to restore the outer courts of Jesus’ Church. The inner ones are still occupied by Jesus till the end of time, and cannot be destroyed, despite the personal sins or errors of thought of the Pontiffs who reign till then.
— Our advice to fellow Catholics is to pray for all of us to be united in Truth, continuing to believe in the Real Presence in the Tabernacles of our Parish Churches, (including “N.O.” parishes)giving God the adoration due Him, and receiving His Graces as always..
Some day (soon, Dear Lord!, I hope!) when the Roman Catholic establishment turns itself right side up, Archbishop Lefebvre will be canonized a saint. When that happens the wrongful canonizations of J23 and JP2 (and God forbid–P6!!)will come to light. The SSPX should NEVER accept Vat.2 in any way, shape or form because the INTENT of Vat 2 was to destroy the Holy Roman Catholic Church. It was not a misunderstood or wrongly interpreted council. The Modernist who controlled the Council HATED Tradition and Bergoglio is now the Poster Child! Let us pray for Bishop Fellay. Has any seen The Remnant youtube comparing the plight of Bishop Fellay with a scene from the movie “The Outlaw Josey Wales”? I suggest you take a look!
YEAH! Right, okay! … Wait a minute… isn’t that how we got Pope Michael I in Kansas?? http://www.eyeofthetiber.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/Michael1.jpg — Not to be taken seriously by anyone, especially salvemur 😉
You sound like an Obot; who gives a stupid reply to every intelligent proposal…since you don’t have a brain 2 do otherwise…
I for one DO NOT ACCEPT VATICAN II as having any obligation over anyone. In that sense I reject the notion that Vatican II is a general council of the Church….
It was a meeting of compromise, which has become a tool only for destruction of the faith…
If you cannot say that, you don’t have a Catholic conscience…
The absurd thing is that schismatics do not recognize the Pope. A schismatic would either declare the role of the Pope unnecessary, non-existant, or declare one of their own the true Pope.
The SSPX has never proclaimed themselves to have a new Pope, nor have denied the office of the Papacy.
They’re not even like the Sedes who claim the recent Popes are anti-Popes. If they actually believed that, then there would be no point to bothering to meet anyone in Rome.
I don’t believe the Vatican has ever defined what ‘irregular position’ meant… What does it mean??? How irregular is it? Are the Gay Masses in the U.S. and parishes that march in the Pride parades “in communion” but “irregular”? It seems that some argue that those folk are in “full communion” given no clarification form the Vatican. So is the position of the SSPX “irregular” in a good way? In that they are irregular in holding to orthodox interpretations of Vatican II?
The SSPX don’t largely have a problem with Vatican II outside of a few things, when the rest of the world ignores the bulk of VII and doesn’t bother asking the Pope how to interpret it when they do it themselves, even adding in thigns that aren’t there… So is the SSPX a good kind of “irregular” compared to the “regular” Catholic lay-guy?
I would like Rome to clarify. Maybe that Fr. What’s-his-name is right and the SSPX are Satanists and celebrate a darker-than-black mass. He should write to Rome and tell the Pope! Or is he trying to interpret “irregular standing” against the authority of the Pope and Church who themselves can’t clarify? Did an angle tell him in a cave out in the desert? I tihnk he’s setting himself up as an authority against the Magisterium who haven’t defined “irregular.” Someone should report him then…
Can anyone in Rome please be clear about what they are saying and teach anymore? …*Sigh*… You have ONE JOB!!! Please do it.
Anyone that supports and promotes NovusOrdowatch, Sanborn & Cekada are no friends of the SSPX. The attitudes of these schismatics against SSPX are no better then that of the Opus Dei Priest.
Oh Roman, thanks for the laugh. Just trying to imagine anyone I face to face with thinking of me being called an Obot… Seriously, after I read your proposal, and thought about how many like-minded people in my diocese could march down to the chancery, kick out the bishop, elect one with pre-VII judgment, and have the tens of thousands in the surrounding parishes swoon with delight… It reminded me of the little room with friends and neighbors that got together and elected “pope” Michael. But yes, I guess it’s nice… It is scriptural that “old men dream dreams”.. (I don’t mean you—I mean me – however if the shoe fits…)…;-)
My2cents,
Here’s a nickel — the link– https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LsfXK4XZtWs
Regarding clarity of teaching, Mundabor has again recommended Fr. Gary Dickson’s blog (Catholic collar and tie) for an article on the Synod, but we also found it easy to relate to his August post on the situation in the Church: “Voices in the Wilderness of Dissent and Disorder: He writes…
“..Even some among ur Mass attendees show obstinate rejection of the Church’s moral teachings when family members are in relationships the Church cannot countenance.. “I was told by one fellow clergy… it’s actually hard to commit a mortal sin”..
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These are dangerous ideas, likely to lead to sacrilegious communions. Truly, would today’s Church be recognised by the Church of the Apostolic Fathers; the Medieval Fathers or the Church of the 1950’s?
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–Recently I was challenged by a layman for saying that since we have fullness of truth and the full means of sanctification we should want everyone to become Catholic. The rejoinder was “You know Father, we’re all the same now; we all worship the same God. You need to read Vatican II”. “Cardinal Nichols said civil unions can be good and even the Pope said ‘who am I to judge?’ So it’s you who has to change your ideas Father”.
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“Leadership is woefully lacking for souls these days, unless it is leadership into doctrinal error and sacrilegious communions.”
“Proclamation of the Truth without correction of errors, is like telling a patient what will contribute to her health without also reminding her to cease what is damaging her health. http://catholiccollarandtie.blogspot.com/
(scroll down to Friday, 29 August 2014)
I vote for Dom Bosco’s third council. I hope they all get together and declare that the documents of VII can only be accepted when read in light of Pascendi and preceding documents. Of course if we do that, it would be best to cut the parts which are hard to rectify, and most of the rest would be superfluous. Oh, bring back the days when morals pertained more to how we dealt with God and other individuals to get them and us to heaven, not Mother Earth and how to make everyone happy and comfortable.
Dear Mr. V.
MOST EXCELLENT POST.
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It also needs to be pointed out why the SSPX will always be faithful to Eternal Rome, no matter how bad the “bad popes” become. By being faithful to Eternal Rome, the SSPX is being faithful to the Bride of Christ, and Eternal Rome is Christ’s ONLY Bride.
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Remember, Christ does not do polygamy.
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Archbishop Lefebvre, ora pro nobis!
And one for the “Brave Sir Robin” category.
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Francis refuses to receive Bishiop Livieres.
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Link here: http://eponymousflower.blogspot.com/2014/09/pope-refuses-to-receive-dismissed.html
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Bishop Livieres writes:
” As a “true son of the Church,” he accepts the decision, says Bishop Livieres, even if it is “unfounded and arbitrary, for which the Pope must be answerable to God”. The bishop’s letter continues: “Apart from many human errors that I may have committed, and for which I ask pardon from God and those who may have suffered, I ask once more firmly that the core of the case is an opposition and an ideological persecution.””
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His Humbleness answers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYFefppqEtE
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Yes, brave pope Francis
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The church of Francis: where parody is reality!
…and in the ” more things to be grateful for to Archbishop Lefebvre”…
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Eye candy from the Sacra Liturgia summer school at the Monastery of St Benedict in the Diocese of Fréjus-Toulon.
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http://www.newliturgicalmovement.org/2014/09/photos-from-sacra-liturgia-summer-school.html#.VCj7PVfDXow
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On an aside, when one of the modernist French bishops was asked why his seminary had such an abysmal number of seminarians, he answered to the effect that ‘if he introduce the Latin Mass like (bishop) Rey (Bishop of Fréjus-Toulon) his seminaries would also be full”.
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Paging Fr. Volpi. Please pick up the courtesy phone at the reception desk. Rome calling. Fr. V O L P I. 😉
And one for the unexpected win column:
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Modernist bishop goes down without a fight!
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Link here: http://mundabor.wordpress.com/2014/09/28/look-for-the-skeleton-the-workings-of-the-liberal-mind/
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Mundabor writes:
” The spectacular fall of Bishop Conry is occasion to repeat what I have already stated in the past: when a bishop is of clearly liberal tendencies, he probably has a skeleton in his closet.”
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I’m thinking….if it was ONLY a case of getting caught with a “rent boy”, “mercy” could have been applied. 🙂
Everyone owes His Excellency big time, even hardcore sedevacantists like SSPV and the Thuc “bishops” have to admit as bold as they believe they are, they are invertebrates compared to Marcel… their very existence is a spin off of his position. Now they all claim to know better, but who was it that stood up to the black mass in protest and reparation? At this point the sedevacantists are just angry they didn’t do it first. The courage of Archbishop Lefebvre is nowhere to be found among them, just a bunch of brooding vipers!
Roman Watcher:
Are you referring to Vatican Council II with or without the irrational premise, according to Cushingism or Feeneyism ?
James the Lesser:
NovusOrdowatch, Bishop Sanborn,Fr. Cekada, the SSPX and the Opus Dei Priest are using Cushingism instead of Feeneyism in the interpretation of Vatican Council II. They are interpreting Church documents using an irrational premise and they do not know that there is a choice.
Lynda
On Fr.Ray Blake’s blog, you and I agreed in the comments section, that every Catholic needs to accept the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
So then I cited the following link and asked you if there was a mistake in the Catechism of the Catholic Church.
CARDINAL JOSEPH RATZINGER MADE AN OBJECTIVE ERROR IN THE CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH (N.1257)
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2014/08/cardinal-joseph-ratzinger-made.html
Still waiting for your answer.
Dear Trad Max,
You are exactly correct.
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When we think of the clerics who separated themselves from the SSPX, one reflexively thinks about the FSSP and some of the Ecclesia Dei crowd (Campos and the Stronsay Island folks). However, the best of the SV bunch also were ordained at Econe Here I am referring to the individuals who are mentioned in above comments.
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In the link below is a short history about the SSPX. Hopefully, this should provide some context to Louie’s excellent post.
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I for one will always be grateful to the Archbishop for the restoration which is taking place as we speak. I for one still remember the pre and post Indult era where you could not find a proper Catholic Mass anywhere in the US. And it all started to change with the consecrations.
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And when we look at the lay of the land now, there is a SSPX in practically all 50 states, and the offering of the LTM steadily growing. Even in the age of Francis. 🙂
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And for proof, just look: http://honneurs.free.fr/Wikini/wakka.php?wiki=PagePrincipalEn
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“I got your name, I got your number… Francis”. 😉
…oops, forgot the SSPX link.
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Mea Culpa.
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http://stas.org/en/about/history
Right on! We’re just a good Pope away from committing Vat II ti the dustbin of history. It only seems impossible, but one day the Sede Obscuro will end. Now let’s start up that Novena to Our Lady of the Rosary, the synod isn’t that far away!
Dear Trad Max:
Indeed!
Let us pray for not only the Synod, but also the coming of the good pope and while we are at it, the future Council of Econe what will right the Barque of St. Peter.!
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A further thought. I totally agree that we might not be that far away from the good pope. I would be very surprised if at the next conclave, the college of cardinals decided to “take another walk on the wild side”.
Dear Johnno:
You have provided me with an answer which I have been struggling to find for quite a while.
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I am often at an impasse when asked about the status of the SSPX w/r/t the Catholic Church.
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Previously I answered saying that the SSPX is in full communion but have an irregular status.
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But your observation about being in “full communion, however with an irregular status, but in the good sense of the word irregular” is the answer that I have been looking for.
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A big Deo gratias!
Louie wrote:
“offer an Ave Maria for any insecure little priest who, motivated perhaps more by a hatred of others than a love for the Church” Amen!
A
man
FOR
ALL
WALES
(Sir Thomas More: “Why Richard, it profits a man nothing to give his soul for the whole world… but for Wales?”)
Beware such evil
Pictures, simple
Of praying nuns
In veils and wimple
Beware those sitting
In wheel chair
Saying the rosary
Under sun’s glare
Beware the mother
Ever nursing
She deserves a
Feminist cursing
Beware Tradition’s
Young priesthood
Laying their lives
For all that is good
But “like” me on Face Book
Pump up book sales
Watch my You/Tubes
I’m…”A man For All Wales”!
Speaking of the Nod to Sin coming up in October I wonder if anyone ever considered that Cardinal Kasper is actually bringing to light the complete hypocrisy and rotten fruits of the sky rocketing ease at “getting” annulments and the NFP contraceptive mentality. He probably actually sees how people are tired of pretending that their first marriage never existed and that people are tired of pretending that NFP when used to avoid having children is not artificial and against natural law. Who do we think we are kidding that this upcoming Nod to Sin is not the result of the more than seventy years of hacking away at purity and marriage’s primary purpose and mission of procreation and education of children for God’s glory under the banner of Pius XII private letter to the Italian midwives and under the banner of Deitrich Von Hildebrand’s writings on a newer and deeper meaning of marriage to be love while downplaying marriage’s primary purpose of procreation and education of children for God’s glory.
It surprises me to see The sedevacantist website Novus Order Watch proclaim Pope Pius XII to be the last true traditionalist Pope.
Mike,
Intellectual errors are as contagious as physical diseases, perhaps even moreso, since contact is not required….
If you mock what Catholics did during the Arian crisis, then you are not a Catholic howsoever you claim to comport yourself in real life, because you insult the Saints…
And thus show that you are a pragmatic socialist, marching to the step of progressivism and modernism…since for you what the crowd is asserted to think by defeatists, is the truth to be maintained…
in itself, without any presuppositions but the Faith itself as the rule to judge it…
Trad Max,
Your style of making personal attacks on other Catholics is unbecoming of a Traditionalist. Please refrain. The situation in which to make these attacks is to their faces, my friend, not here.
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Further, there are some among us here who’ve been commenting for a long time –who personally knew and loved +Lefebvre, always will; yet currently hold a different position than he did when he was alive. I count myself among them.
—-
Stick to the issues if you wish to engage in civil discourse.
dear Long-Skirts,
Once again, you made me weep. Thank you for another poignant offering. May the Peace of Our Divine Saviour Jesus Christ, a Peace not of this world, be to you and yours.
de Maria numquam satis,
Who said they’re Catholics? The snake (or viper) is a time-honored symbol that the church has used to describe all heretics. Honestly it’s an upgrade because next to that venom which destroys the soul, what would we have to fear from that which destroys only the flesh?
I’ll grant that not all SV’s are the problem, but to the ones that love to show up on YouTube or forums like this one and empty their fangs, I’ve got just the antivenin. If you think I’m bad, Our Lady crushes all heresy with her feet! Hopefully the heretics remove the heresy from their heads before that happens.
So heads up!
Roman Watcher
in itself, without any presuppositions but the Faith itself as the rule to judge it…
Lionel:
If you use Cushingism with the interpretation it will disagree with the Faith.
If you use Feeneyism it will be in agreement with Tradition.
The Council is neutral.
For example if you assume that those saved with ‘ a ray of the Truth’ (NA 2) are visible to us in 2014( this is Cushingism) then NA 2 ( Vatican Council II) will contradict the Faith, it will contradict the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus, the Syllabus of Errors etc.
If you accept that NA 2 refers to hypothetical cases, possibilities known only to God and not to explicit cases in 2014 , then Vatican Council II (NA 2) does not contradict Tradition.Similarly with LG 16, UR 3, etc.
Lionel,
My comment does not have to do with your discussion; there are graver errors in the council like the reformulation of the 1st and greatest commandment in GS 24, If I remember correctly, where it says that the 1st and greatest commandment is the love of God and neighbor (sic) !
If Vatican II is taken as authoritative council, that teaching alone would transform the entire Church into another kind of religion, because it places egual weight on love of God and love of man….which is blasphemy….
For that verse alone, It is worthy of eternal condemnation…but only one with the true Faith can comprehend it…
Ahammmm…..
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Rorate Caeli pick up the theme from Mundabor’s earlier post:
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“When a Bishop Hides or Distorts Doctrine, Watch Out:
He’s Revealing Secrets About Himself”
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New Catholic makes the following observation:
“All bishops know the Catholic faith. It really is no secret. It has been completely in the open in the public square since Christ taught it on the Mount and in the Temple, since Peter spoke in Jerusalem, Paul spoke in Athens, and both spoke in Rome. When, regarding any point of doctrine, but in particular sexual morality and marriage, you see a bishop who is speaking less about it, or less often, or is distorting it, or hiding or criticizing those points he dislikes, or calling it old-fashioned, or dismissing its relevance, or who suddenly turns away from his formerly courageous modus operandi when feeling the pressure of secular activists, watch out.
This means a lot.
A lot.
IT MEANS A LOT.”
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Puts the “Who am I to judge” quote in a new context.
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Just sayin…..
More info about our English bishop Casanova…
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Mundabor provides more details.
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Link here: (Simply luv the grocery bag theme…)
http://mundabor.wordpress.com/2014/09/29/bishop-conry-absolves-himself/
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Mundabor sums it up like this:
“This, ladies and gentlemen, is V II as it walks, gives interviews, buys groceries, and does other things with other people’s wives (however stupid the husbands) that are better not mentioned.
Then there is the detail of no sex with the other mistress, apparently. or perhaps it was a third. Not entirely clear. Seriously, one is reminded of Bill Clinton.”
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Yes it is a huge story. Not as big as O’Brien (as in cardinal) and his male lover before the last conclave, but still big. The only problem that I have with putting so much emphasis on this story is that…. Francis might put the good bishop on the upcoming Synod.
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Yes my son, “Go and sin some more”.
Roman Watcher:
Reformulation of the 1st and greatest commandment in GS 24, If I remember correctly, where it says that the 1st and greatest commandment is the love of God and neighbor (sic) !
Lionel:
Could you please cite the text.
Johnno:
The SSPX don’t largely have a problem with Vatican II outside of a few things..
Lionel:
Remnant newspaper and Fr.Francois Laisney (SSPX) contradict the General Chapter Statement 2012 which said there are no exceptions to extra ecclesiam nulla salus
Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus
Now Archbishop DiNoia continues – no longer rightly – and says “the Church has always affirmed [the possibility of salvation of non-Christians], and it has never denied it.” This is not only false, but even explicitly opposed to the dogma Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus. Pope Pius IX explicitly says it is a Dogma, and it has been taught as such – unanimously – from the very beginning. What he may be confused about is that the Church – in the proper explanation of that dogma – teaches Baptism of Blood and Baptism of desire [read my little book about it published by the Angelus Press], but the Church does not teach that those souls who are saved by these “baptisms” are saved “outside the Church” – on the contrary!
The Church explicitly affirms that these souls are part of the Church; this is often expressed as being part of the “soul” of the Church (See St Pius X’s catechism). It was bad theologians from the 1930s that started to say that these were saved “outside” the Church, completely forgetting that the Church teaches the necessity of the Catholic Faith and charity in order to have Baptism of Blood or Baptism of desire. Sorry, your Excellency, it is not possible to be a Saint without the Catholic Faith; it is not possible to be formally Lutheran or Anglican and be a Saint. “He that does not believe shall be condemned”, said Our Lord Himself, and He certainly would not settle for a false faith. It is therefore the true Faith that He requires. So if someone who looks to be a Lutheran outside is saved, it is because he is a Catholic inside; it is in spite of the Lutheran church, not by it that he is saved.
We will pray that, to enable him to successfully fulfil his mission as vice-president of the Ecclesia Dei commission, His Excellency will correct his doctrine on that most important point of Faith.-Fr.Francois Laisney SSPX
This passage is reviewed here with comments.
Fr.Francois Laisney:
Now Archbishop DiNoia continues – no longer rightly – and says “the Church has always affirmed [the possibility of salvation of non-Christians], and it has never denied it.” This is not only false, but even explicitly opposed to the dogma Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus.
Lionel:
Fr.Francois Laisney and the SSPX believe that the baptism of desire and being saved in invincible ignorance are exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.Here we have Archbishop Di Noia also saying that the Church has always affirmed the possibility of salvation of non Catholics.In other words these possibilities are visible exceptions. So why is Fr.Laisney complaining ? They are both saying the same thing.
Fr.Francois Laisney:
Pope Pius IX explicitly says it is a Dogma, and it has been taught as such – unanimously – from the very beginning.
Lionel:
The text of the dogma does not mention any exceptions. It does not mention the baptism of desire etc.So why does Fr.Francois Laisney and Archbishop Lefebvre assume that there are exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.This contradicts the dogma.It also contradicts the General Chapter Statement of the SSPX (2012) which says there are no exceptions to extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
Fr.Francois Laisney:
What he may be confused about is that the Church – in the proper explanation of that dogma – teaches Baptism of Blood and Baptism of desire [read my little book about it published by the Angelus Press],
Lionel:
Which is a heretical book criticized so often.
The Church no where teaches that the baptism of desire and blood are explicit for us and so are exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus. This has been wrongly inferred by Fr.Francois Laisney and the Letter of the Holy Office 1949.
Fr.Francois Laisney:
but the Church does not teach that those souls who are saved by these “baptisms” are saved “outside the Church” – on the contrary!
Lionel:
If they are saved outside or inside the Church you would not know. These cases are hypothetical for us and known only to God.
Fr.Francois Laisney:
The Church explicitly affirms that these souls are part of the Church; this is often expressed as being part of the “soul” of the Church (See St Pius X’s catechism).
Lionel:
Yes if they are saved. However the Church does not state(except in the Letter of the Holy Office 1949) that these cases are personally known to us and so they are explicit exceptions to extra ecclesiam nulla salus.Fr.Francois has written a book ‘Is Feeneyism Catholic? (Angelus Press).The book is pure Cushingism. The irrational reason runs right through the book.It contradicts the General Chapter Statement on extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
Fr.Francois Laisney:
It was bad theologians from the 1930s that started to say that these were saved “outside” the Church, completely forgetting that the Church teaches the necessity of the Catholic Faith and charity in order to have Baptism of Blood or Baptism of desire.
Lionel:
It was bad theologians like Fr.Francois Laisney who taught there was salvation outside the Church and so has criticized Fr.Leonard Feeney and supported the irrationality in the Letter of the Holy Office 1949.
Fr.Francois Laisney:
Sorry, your Excellency, it is not possible to be a Saint without the Catholic Faith; it is not possible to be formally Lutheran or Anglican and be a Saint. “He that does not believe shall be condemned”, said Our Lord Himself, and He certainly would not settle for a false faith. It is therefore the true Faith that He requires. So if someone who looks to be a Lutheran outside is saved, it is because he is a Catholic inside; it is in spite of the Lutheran church, not by it that he is saved.
Lionel:
Archbishop Di Noia cannot judge who will be saved without Catholic Faith (AG 7).He does not know of any case outside the Church who is saved this year or the last year. So all still need the baptism of water in the Catholic Church for salvation.
Fr.Francois Laisney:
We will pray that, to enable him to successfully fulfil his mission as vice-president of the Ecclesia Dei commission, His Excellency will correct his doctrine on that most important point of Faith.-Fr.Francois Laisney SSPX
Lionel:
It is false doctrine to assume that there are known exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus and that the baptism of desire and being saved in invincible ignorance are exceptions. They are not.
Fr.Francois Laisney and the Remant Editor uses Cushingism in the interpretation of Vatican Council II similar to Archbishop Augustine di Noia.Cushingism makes the Council irrational, non traditional and heretical.
-Lionel Andrades
On Archbishop DiNoia, Vatican II, and the SSPX
http://www.remnantnewspaper.com/Archives/2012-1015-laisney-di-noia.htm
POSTED: 10/8/12
Reminder, dear friends
Today starts SSPX Rosary novena in defense of the family.
There may be other reminders here from other commentators, but I just want to emphasize the importance of this matter.
Thank you and God bless all!
Our Lady, Help of Christians, pray for us during these troubling times!
Dear Roman Watcher,
You wrote in #6 above:
“What everyone needs to do, is to tell the local ordinary that we are not going to take it any more, fly a kite and ship out, we want a thoroughly catholic bishop who follows the Faith….I think we have the right, therefore, to refuse all papal nominations for local ordinaries and encourage local clergy and laity to elect catholic bishops.”
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We’re trying to understand your meaning here–wondering if you’re talking about individual Faithful Catholics making appointments to see the Bishop, or in areas where people are organized into small groups doing the same?
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We’ve been involved with both types of efforts like those in the past, and been literally laughed off, marginalized, placated, and ignored for the most part–which we hear is the usual result from others around the country with whom we’ve talked. We have no power like people in a village of old because we’re so scattered. Haven’t you, yourself lamented this very thing in the past?
So exactly what do you have in mind here? –A group like the SSPX calling for people nationwide to bus to one another’s dioceses and hold public rally’s making demands without any legal power? Or something else?
–This is not defeatist thinking, based on estimated failure. It’s practical experience on our part, anyway–can’t speak for others.
24. God, Who has fatherly concern for everyone, has willed that all men should constitute one family and treat one another in a spirit of brotherhood. For having been created in the image of God, Who “from one man has created the whole human race and made them live all over the face of the earth” (Acts 17:26), all men are called to one and the same goal, namely God Himself.
(Don’t mean to intrude on your conversation here, but Roman Watcher gave you the right citation GS 24:.
“For this reason, love for God and neighbor is the first and greatest commandment. Sacred Scripture, however, teaches us that the love of God cannot be separated from love of neighbor: “If there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying: Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself…. Love therefore is the fulfillment of the Law” (Rom. 13:9-10; cf. 1 John 4:20). To men growing daily more dependent on one another, and to a world becoming more unified every day, this truth proves to be of paramount importance.”
We’ve heard homilies on this very topic, and it happens to be one that really pushes our buttons. Number one is God. Period. THE SECOND is LIKE it. NOT HERE in this document..
Amen to that.
Your welcome, Barbara. I listen to the ‘Francis Watch’ discussion on Restoration Radio:
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http://www.restorationradionetwork.org/
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I learn so much it would otherwise be easy to miss!
I think the ‘who are you to judge’ doctrine of Bergoglio (’cause let’s face it, he judges, condemns and excutes left right and centre) is about ‘outlawing’ right comparison of human actions to the moral law (the God-given ability to judge the good) – by all accounts I would guess he does not believe in God, like any good Marxist. He conflates all right judgement with rash condemnation; even as he himself continues to rashly condemn everyone who disagrees with him (I think he and Kim Jong Un might have a lot in common). It’s a tool that denies an objective standard by which we must live and behave i.e. God Almighty. VII and its fake-popes attack moral absolutes from as many angles as they have dared to get away with – these days there’s no longer any need for ‘daring’ because people don’t much seem to care.
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p.s. Bergoglio’s mind-set is Marxist I reckon in the way it functions and the goals it is working for. I thnk the Pact of Metz and Marxist infiltration of the structures of the Church doesn’t get nearly enough attention. Bella Dodd’s testimony is all but forgotten along with Montini’s Marxist treachery under Pius XII and, of course, Roncalli recinding Pius XII’s standing excommunication of known communists, and promulgating the ‘Moscow-Vatican Agreement’.
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http://worldenslavementorpeace.com/e8cp2.asp
Bergoglio’s latest ‘crozier’:
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http://www.novusordowatch.org/wire/bergoglios-dental-crozier.htm
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One wonders what on earth sort of ‘shepherding’ he has in mind with it.
my dear salvemur,
Looks like His Humildad is about to do some serious root canal work. He’ll rapidly just dig out that old time religion and trash it in the hazardous waste. God love you.
dear my2cents,
Thank you. There can never be too many reminders ! After all, de Maria numquam satis !!
Bl. Anna Maria Taigi, pray for us.
Bl. Zelie Martin, pray for us.
The Francis reign of terror…. ahem.. I mean “mercy” continues.
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Next victim, front and center!
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Bishop Robert Finn of the Kansas City-St Joseph Mo dioceses is in Francis’s sights.
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Link via EF here: http://eponymousflower.blogspot.com/2014/09/visitor-assigned-to-axe-bishop-finn.html
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The “YEARS of the long knives” are upon us.
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Achtung, baby. 😉
Mundabor has a great post about the good bishop Livieres.
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Link here:http://mundabor.wordpress.com/2014/09/29/paraguay-no-personal-misconduct-involved/
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Mundabor observes:
“In Francis’ Stalinian world, if you uphold Catholic values you are a threat to the unity of circus Bergoglio. If your seminary has more Seminarians than the rest of Paraguay together, you are clearly sowing discord. If your very behaviour and success shows that your colleagues are a bunch of incompetent morons without faith or dignity you are certainly showing you can’t get along with them.”
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Excellent observation. And I would add, that this Bergoglian “war on Catholicism” is nothing more than a “bait and switch” tactic. The purpose of this vocal and overtly brutal suppression is to take the spotlight off of the utterly complete failure that is NUChurch.
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The “eccumania” serves the same purpose. What Francis is trying to cover up is all those faithful that were lost because of the VII catastrophe. And those collection plate losses which are putting serious strains on the finances of the NUChurch. What Francis is trying to offer is the “illusion” that the church will win back those pew sitters when it re-unites with the heretical sects and gains them back.
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Hey, it’s a plan…..;)
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Which brings to mind Mike Tyson’s famous quote: “Everyone has a plan, until they get hit in the face”.
…and for some lighter stuff…. Nuns on the Bus. Or NOB’s as they are know in the blogosphere… and not only.
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Fr. Z has gotten the video of the “bus” of the NOB’s.
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Link here: http://wdtprs.com/blog/2014/09/nuns-on-the-bus-check-out-their-ride/
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Robin Leach. Paging Robin Leach. Phone call from somewhere on route 66. Please pick up the courtesy phone. R O B I N L E A C H, please pick up the courtesy phone. 😉
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Which brings the obvious question: who needs convents?
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Speaking of convents in need of occupants…. Link here:http://www.loopnet.com/Listing/18584385/110-Notre-Dame-Street-Mount-Calvary-WI/
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Boy, I know of some Franciscan sisters who could use a place at which they can hang out.
Seeing as how His Humbleness is bent on trying to demoralize the remaining Catholics who “subsist” in the Church occupied by the VII sect, I would like to remind our readers here of the most famous quote… that was most likely never said.
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I bring you Mahatma Gandhi…. or rather a quote attributed to MG that MG never said….
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FIRST THEY IGNORE YOU. THEN THEY LAUGH AT YOU. THEN THEY ATTACK YOU. THEN YOU WIN.
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Link as to background of above statement here: http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/2011/0603/Political-misquotes-The-10-most-famous-things-never-actually-said/First-they-ignore-you.-Then-they-laugh-at-you.-Then-they-attack-you.-Then-you-win.-Mohandas-Gandhi
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If the above process is correct, irrespective of whether anyone in fact made the statement and assuming that the statement is based on a prescient observation compatible with objective reality, then we are in the third phase of the cycle, i.e. “Then they attack you”.
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Which brings another quote to mind, real quote attributed to Fredrick Nietzsche: That which does not kill us makes us stronger.
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Langsam, langsam aber sicher! 😉
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And the more brutal the attacks, the more
….. sooner the end of the Great Chastisement. 🙂
Indignus famulus /Roman Watcher
24. God, Who has fatherly concern for everyone, has willed that all men should constitute one family and treat one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Lionel:
Jesus died for all. He loves all. He wants all in Heaven.He wants all to be one family in the Catholic Church. CCC 845 says God the Father wants all to be united in the Catholic Church.
For having been created in the image of God, Who “from one man has created the whole human race and made them live all over the face of the earth” (Acts 17:26), all men are called to one and the same goal, namely God Himself.
Lionel: They are all called to God through Jesus and the Catholic Church.
(Don’t mean to intrude on your conversation here, but Roman Watcher gave you the right citation GS 24:.
Lionel: I do not see any problem with this passage.
“For this reason, love for God and neighbor is the first and greatest commandment. Sacred Scripture, however, teaches us that the love of God cannot be separated from love of neighbor: “If there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying: Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself…. Love therefore is the fulfillment of the Law” (Rom. 13:9-10; cf. 1 John 4:20). To men growing daily more dependent on one another, and to a world becoming more unified every day, this truth proves to be of paramount importance.”
We’ve heard homilies on this very topic, and it happens to be one that really pushes our buttons. Number one is God. Period. THE SECOND is LIKE it. NOT HERE in this document..
Lionel: So what is unorthodox in this passage?
Dear me – someone had already forseempn the likes:
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http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bOtMizMQ6oMDe
p.s.
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for those who don’t get it ‘ say ‘ah’ now ‘spit’!
… and more good news. From the “it’s just a matter of time”category.
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Over half of Canadian religious are over 80!
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Link here: http://veneremurcernui.wordpress.com/2014/09/29/over-half-of-canadian-religious-over-80/
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And I quote:
“In the afternoon, the Most Reverend John Corriveau, O.F.M. Cap., Bishop of Nelson, B.C., led a panel discussion on the challenges facing consecrated life today. Father George Smith, C.S.B., General Superior of the Basilian Fathers and Vice President of the Canadian Religious Conference (CRC), was invited to present an overview of the current situation of religious life in Canada. In 2013, there were over 17,000 religious men and women in Canada. Fifty percent were over 80 years old and only one percent under 40.”
Most Reverend John Corriveau, O.F.M. Cap., Bishop of Nelson, B.C
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I paraphrase “By his fruits, ye shall know….. the spirit of VII”
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PS “…only 1% under 40 years of age”. Numerically speaking, that’s 170. In Canada. Way to go guys. 😉
Dear Lionel,
“Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with thy whole heart, and with thy whole soul, and with thy whole strength.[Deuteronomy 6:5 ] . “Thou shalt love the Lord thy God, with thy whole heart, and with thy whole soul, and with thy whole mind, and with thy whole strength. This is the first commandment.” [Mark 12:30]
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-We can’t speak for “Roman” but our objections to combining the First with the second are these:
-Jesus pointed out the difference saying “This is the first”, and the second is “like it.”
-That difference is crucial to man’s proper ordering of his existence- regarding finite creation-including himself, and his infinite God. The first involves WORSHIP. The second doesn’t. So we end up worshipping man instead of God, and losing the understanding of the difference. It’s easy to see why it would be Satan’s dream to so subtly dethrone God this way, and delude mankind into believing God’s okay with all that flows from it–because now we’re so “in touch” with Him through our feelings for ourselves and others–which we justify as loving “with all our hearts and minds and souls”.___
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The same thing happened with VII’s emphasizing the similarities between various sects and non-Catholic religions, which naturally incline people to ignore the serious differences that require conversion to the one, true Faith- for salvation. We’re living through the resultant dis-order–indifference and deadly confusion in which man is elevated and honored while God has become the chummy neighbor who doesn’t want us to think, much less worry about worshipping Him; passing judgment on sin, or our eternal destination.
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We see this central “false premise” and its subsequent dethroning and personalizing God are the core causes of rampant sin and destructive controversies in the Church, including the Mass.
-The reason for new ‘orientation” -a priest with his back to God, facing the people, just like Jesus at the last supper plus reminders in word and song that we “see” God in ourselves and in our neighbors. Almost 50 years later, a host of “ideas” of Who God “really” is are being revered, while the Real God is being manhandled, trampled on the floor, ignored and even despised in public. How many N.O. parishes sound like a football stadium right after Mass,- people standing around talking and laughing -with their backs to the altar–just benevolently continuing the worship of “the God in us” or “the God we are becoming” transcendentally speaking.
It’s all about familiarity now, while the “ancient” rite is from the “dark ages”.
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-“Forget those prophets of doom and gloom” John XXIII proclaimed… God will work through man’s efforts….Ignore Our Lady of Fatima, and push on with “modernizing” even though it meant relegating her to a closet and producing a Pope Francis who would say: Man, not money, must be the center” to the U.N. because Christ the King is not the image seen from within by modernists. Service to man is more important than worship, so we have Saturday Masses to help fit-in our weekly obligations, and cancellation of Holy days that fall around weekends so no one has to go to two Masses in a row -or feel guilty. And now we have a Pope placing even the sacredness of the Real Presence as secondary to humanist desires to remove every restriction -including those put in place by God for our ultimate good–in the name of mercy and inclusiveness.
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In just our lifetimes we’ve come to expect words like: “Don’t worry about me, I’m fine with God–He understands my needs-, He’s my friend, not my “judge” He doesn’t send people to Hell.” “Convert the Muslims or Jews? that was pre-VII thinking, get with it. It’s more important to make them feel good, and wait on God to bring them to salvation. These ideas differ so greatly from the last 2000 years of Church teaching because ” the living God within us is adaptive to modern life”.
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How did we get here? By Demolishing the Greatest Commandment, revising it into one, -merging our worship of God with worship of the god within, and not being able to distinguish Him from Satan, in the end because we were led to ignore too much written and oral Tradition-the Revelation of God given to guide us to Heaven. The core premise must be that greatest commandment, and the second but be recognized in it’s rightful place-to save us from corruption.
And in the ” Francis the absolute monarch” category we get this from Sandro Magister:
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http://chiesa.espresso.repubblica.it/articolo/1350881?eng=y
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Magister writes:
“At that electoral cycle, in fact, the ten candidates included Cupich. And his was considered by his colleagues the most distinctly “progressive,” ecclesiasticaly speaking, of the candidacies presented.
So then, at the first round of voting, which saw the immediate election as president of the outgoing vice-president, Archbishop Kurtz, with 125 votes out of 236, Cupich was back in seventh place with only 10 votes.”
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If there is one thing you can say about the “spirit of vatican II” is that it is consistent.
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Consistant failure. But consistant non the less. 😉
Indignus Familus.
here is the full text of GS 24 .
4. God, Who has fatherly concern for everyone, has willed that all men should constitute one family and treat one another in a spirit of brotherhood. For having been created in the image of God, Who “from one man has created the whole human race and made them live all over the face of the earth” (Acts 17:26), all men are called to one and the same goal, namely God Himself.
For me it does not contradict ‘ love for God and neighbor’being the the first and greatest commandment. Sacred Scripture, however, teaches us that the love of God cannot be separated from love of neighbor:
The passage above (GS 24) for me does not contradict the following:
“If there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying: Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself…. Love therefore is the fulfillment of the Law” (Rom. 13:9-10; cf. 1 John 4:20).
Indeed, the Lord Jesus, when He prayed to the Father, “that all may be one. . . as we are one” (John 17:21-22) opened up vistas closed to human reason, for He implied a certain likeness between the union of the divine Persons, and the unity of God’s sons in truth and charity. This likeness reveals that man, who is the only creature on earth which God willed for itself, cannot fully find himself except through a sincere gift of himself.
Indignus famulus:
The same thing happened with VII’s emphasizing the similarities between various sects and non-Catholic religions, which naturally incline people to ignore the serious differences that require conversion to the one, true Faith- for salvation.
Lionel:
Regarding sects and non Catholic religions:
SSPX General Chapter Statement 2012 contradicts the Letter of the Holy Office 1949
Cardinal Luiz Ladaria S.J and those whom he represents, will not accept Vatican Council II interpreted according to the General Chapter Statement i.e Lumen Gentium 16 ( being saved in invincible ignorance) will not be an explicit exception to extra ecclesiam nulla salus, since there are no exceptions.
The SSPX General Chapter Statement 2012 contradicts the Letter of the Holy Office 1949.The General Chapter Statement tells us that defacto there are no exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus and so this is the position of the SSPX in talks with the Vatican .The Letter of the Holy Office on the contrary says there are exceptions and all do not need to be members of the Catholic Church for salvation.
‘we reaffirm our faith in the Roman Catholic Church, the unique Church founded by Our Lord Jesus Christ, outside of which there is no salvation nor possibility to find the means leading to salvation’, says the SSPX in 2012 and the Holy Office in 1949 says ‘Therefore, that one may obtain eternal salvation, it is not always required that he be incorporated into the Church actually as a member, but it is necessary that at least he be united to her by desire and longing.’
So before the SSPX signs a Doctrinal Preamble what will be the position of the Bishop Bernard Fellay ? Will he say there exceptions for members of the Christian sects and those of non Christian religions in 2014 ? Will he agree with Cardinal Ladaria and say there are exceptions and all do not need to enter the Church?
Cardinal Luiz Ladaria S.J and those whom he represents, will not accept Vatican Council II interpreted according to the General Chapter Statement i.e Lumen Gentium 16 ( being saved in invincible ignorance) will not be an explicit exception to extra ecclesiam nulla salus, since there are no exceptions.
My2cents
The SSPX should NEVER accept Vat.2 in any way, shape or form because the INTENT of Vat 2 was to destroy the Holy Roman Catholic Church.
Lionel:
Do you mean Vatican Council II according to Cushingism or Feeneyism, with the false premise or without it , Vatican Council II which contradicts the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus or one that does not.
Will the SSPX have to sign a Doctrinal Preamble contradicting the General Chapter Statement of 2012 and accept the Cardinal Luiz Ladaria S.J version of Vatican Council II?
Will the SSPX have to sign a Doctrinal Preamble contradicting the General Chapter Statement of 2012 in which it said there are no exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus ?
At the Sept.21 meeting this month between Cardinal Gerhard Muller and Bishop Bernard Fellay, Cardinal Luiz Ladaria S.J was present.
As President of the International Theological Commission the then Fr.Luiz Ladaria said that there are exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus. This is mentioned in the ITC’s Christianity and the World Religions and The Hope of Salvation for Infants who die without being baptized.
So for Cardinal Luiz Ladaria, Lumen Gentium 16 is an exception to extra ecclesiam nulla salus.This is Cushingism.Cushingism says hypothetical cases are defacto exceptions to extra ecclesiam nulla salus in the present times.
If the SSPX accepts Vatican Council II without clarifying that they interpret Vatican Council II according to Feeneyism ( i.e without the irrational inference of being able to see the dead who are exceptions to extra ecclesiam nulla salus), then they would be saying that they accept Vatican Council with the Luiz Ladaria error.
So they should specify which interpretation of Vatican Council II they accept and which one they reject.They must accept Vatican Council II according to the General Chapter Statement and reject the Ladaria version which is irrational and heretical.
Dear Lionel,
You’re entitled to your opinion. We simply differ on this one. We think the choice of words in question here were another example of the ambiguity (with room for subtle distortions) done in the name of reaching the “modern” man (whatever that really means) which have been used for half a century now to further mislead the Faithful.
-They could easily have quoted Jesus’ distinctive words- acknowledging the implicit higher level of responsibility in our duties to return love to God, before explaining how He is the source of all love, including that which is given to ourselves and our fellow man. Without that distinction, the words were and still are too easily misused -as we have often witnessed- to justify errors of misplace “love”-including the breakdown of necessary barriers intended to protect the Faithful from sin and scandal and falsehood, and to deter the spread and tolerance of sinful lifestyles -such as we have today; as well as the “love” that proselytizes the unbeliever and admonishes the sinner.
– People have lost the understanding of what the sword of division Jesus brought means, and what He meant by not being worthy of the kingdom for not being willing to “turn your back on ” close relations, including family when necessary. Other than for promoting vocations, when do we hear these words today among VII admirers?
– People are most often counselled in the ways of moral compromise, precisely because this Greatest commandment has been watered down to imply that God Himself makes no distinctions in how love is to be demonstrated, depending on man’s responses to truth and justice,and neither should we. As a consequence, society has morally decayed to the point where we are all expecting the deluge of fire at any minute, and have been amazed at it’s delay for some time now. Horrifying as ISIS is, we know it’s not over yet, as so many are unrepentant.
.
Dear Lionel,
We have no idea what any of the people you mention will stipulate in these regards. As for ourselves, we believe that Baptism of Desire and Blood are not “exceptions” to the rule of salvation- in the sense that those saved by them are still, always and only saved by the One, Holy Catholic Church and the Graces provided by God through her. We’ve read some of your other posts on this topic, and agree that these cases are not visible to us as they require the mercy and judgment of God which we have no way of knowing before the next life; and that it is not justified to assume the greater number of any group would be saved in this manner, especially as Jesus warned of the “few” there are who find the right road.. Beyond that, the discussion leaves us a bit cross-eyed, as it seems to go on with no real solution due to intransigence of thought.
We’re just an old married Catholic couple, and not theologians, but your explanation seemed right to us on that score..
Dear Salvemur,
It might make a would-be attacker think twice…. 😉
Dear Lionel, I dealt with this question as clearly as I could some months back, on Deacon Nick Donnelly’s suppressed blog, in response to your propositions. God bless.
Canada is among the foremost in persecution of the Faithful, effective outlawing of the Faith and the Natural Moral Law. If one speaks the truth, regarding the perversion of homosexual relations, for instance, one is guilty of a criminal offence.
Roman Watcher, GS 24 appears to have a necessary error with the inclusion of “and neighbour” in the first commandment. The immediately following sentence only makes sense if “and neighbour” is omitted. This follows from the text itself. As it stands, it’s internally inconsistent.
And one for the ” Catholicism will not be tolerated” category, more on bishop Finn.
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Link here: http://eponymousflower.blogspot.com/2014/09/the-real-reasons-abuse-hoax-is-being.html
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The following is a list of the good bishops transgressions against the “spirit of VII”:
++++
He promotes Summorum Pontificum and regularly offers the Extraordinary Form of the Mass • He published a pastoral letter about the dangers of pornography
• He has lifted new vocations to a 40-year high, packing his seminaries with 110 new seminarians
• He has publicly warned Catholics that they cannot be Freemasons
• He cleaned up the mess he inherited from his predecessor, “company man” Raymond Boland, by:
• Slashing funding for diocesan bureaucracies
• Revising the diocese’s adult catechesis program
• Firing a lay chancellor and replacing him with a priest
• Ordering the editor of the diocesan paper to stop publishing columns by dissident Richard McBrien
• He took an oratory slated for demolition and transformed it into a thriving Latin Mass parish
• He publicly prays rosary vigils in front of abortion clinics
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The above constitutes “destruction of the diocese” in the church of Francis. 😉
Indignus Familus.
Thank you. I am glad that you agree with me. This issue is very important for the reconciliation of the SSPX and the Franciscans of the Immaculate.They both are being forced to accept Vatican Council II with Cushingism when a rational and traditional alternative is available.
Would you like to agree with the following post ?
All this must be clarified by the SSPX before they sign a doctrinal preamble.This is major doctrinal error in the Catholic Church which the CDF is keeping hidden
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2014/10/cardinal-luiz-ladaria-s.html
In ancient times the faithful of every diocese chose their bishop, and is election was tacitly or expressly approved by Rome; in the Arian crisis when an Arian was chosen, the Catholics chose another and recognized him alone as Bishop, even if they had no churches or few churches. With the passing of centuries and the growing devotion to St Peter the Apostolic See was sought to intervene in many elections to prevent unworthy candidates and eventually obtain the right by custom to name all the bishops of the Latin Church; note that this is not a divine right, but a customary one; which is why the Pope does not nominate bishops of other rites, only approves the ones nominated.
Now in a time of faith this stricter restriction of nominations to the Pope for Latin right works well, very well, it greatly improves peace in Church and elimnates many problems. But it is also fraught with many problems, how many times in church history have unworthy candidates or kings obtained office by material favors to Apostolic See.
However, when Modernists or filo-Modernists or fellow travelers of the same are elected Pope, this system is disastrous.
Obviously, if this is only a customary right, then one does not sin in certain grave circumstances in opposing this right; and if a Pope names anyone bishop who is in favor of Vatican II, a valid and sensible argument can be made, out of the grave danger to the faithful, to oppose the nomination. Obviously the practical question whether the local clergy and laity would see it as legitimate, opportune or possible is another question, but first the truth needs to be preached, so that all know that they have a way out of the crisis a way to protect their local church a way to protect their children from rape, their families from destruction by heresies and bad morals, a way to save vocations who have courage to preach the truth Faith, a way to organize solid firm and universal opposition to modernist control of Rome.
Its not something to organize overnight, and it would only have legitimacy when a good portion of diocese participated; but first the truth needs to be told, a lot of folks know the evil of Vatican 2, nearly no one knows the divine right of dioceses to elect their own bishop to defend themselves against heresy
In the dark days of the “Bergoglian Great Terror”, Catholicism persists.
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MIssa Cantata in Yonkers and Brooklyn!
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Link here:http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2014/10/events-traditional-masses-in-new-york.html#more
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Taking the fight to the heart of the heresy. 😉
Catholicism goes mainstream.
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Brietbart picks up the story of the Bergoglian thuggery against ++Burke.
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Link here:http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/2014/09/29/Source-Confirms-Pope-to-Kick-Conservative-Cardinal-out-of-the-Vatican
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Who would have thunk?
A delicate topic but here goes.
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From his early days, there have been suggestions that Francis is… how shall we say this… ” a few fries short of a Happy Meal.
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Having said the above, here is a troubling article via Pew Sitter on the Catholic Register website. Link here: http://www.catholicregister.org/faith/faith-news/item/18892-pope-launches-alarm-tells-vatican-security-force-to-be-gossip-police?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TheCatholicRegister+%28The+Catholic+Register+-+Canada%E2%80%99s+Catholic+news+source+since+1893%29
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Quote from HH:
“The biggest threat facing the Vatican isn’t a bomb or bullet from the outside, but the insidious work of mischief-makers within, who plant discord and resentment, Pope Francis told the Vatican’s security force.”
And this:
“But, “I want to tell you something a bit sad; there are bombs in here” and it doesn’t matter if it’s “a homemade bomb or an atomic bomb,” every single one is “dangerous” and “there are many.”
“The worst bomb inside the Vatican is gossip,” which “threatens the life of the church and the life of (the Vatican) every day,” he said, because it “sows destruction” and “destroys the lives of others.””
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🙁
Excellent article, Louie. We do indeed owe a debt of gratitude to Archbishop Lefebvre. He stood firm and resolute in order to defend the Mass and the true faith. Likewise, it was the SSPX who had the largest contingent in protesting the evil black mass in Oklahoma. I found a secular news source from Oklahoma which featured 52 photos from the event, and many of the photos were of the SSPX outside of the civic center. But there were also several photos of the black mass itself, inside the center. The photos of the black mass were disgusting and quite disturbing. After viewing them, I could more appreciate for the need to protest and offer reparation for the evil act of the black mass.
If the priest who wrote on his blog that the SSPX mass for reparation was worse than the black mass itself – I can only say that he doesn’t realize, perhaps, the gravity of the evil of the black mass. Or maybe he does. Who knows. But it is serious calumny to say this about the SSPX. I hope that he repents of it.
Dr. Brian McCall’s piece was quite edifying, especially where he describes the good attitude and behavior of the two dozen or so of the young men from La Salette Academy who stayed in his home before the Mass and event at the civic center. They are an example of the good fruit that comes from being properly raised in the Catholic faith.
My only criticism is of the SSPX video. The background music is a distraction, especially when the priest is speaking, which makes it difficult to follow what the priest is saying. And the music tries to elicit an emotional response that really isn’t necessary, since the truth of the matter speaks for itself.
Dear Roman Watcher,
Fascinating. Thank you. We drew a blank though, in trying to come up with a candidate for Bishop. It’s hard to even find a priest who hasn’t succumbed to diocesan new-Church-seminary programming We’ve met a few over the last 30 years or so, who’ve come to serve in the U.S. from Africa, and seem to have had better training. Maybe the Diocesan boundaries will have to be greatly expanded to cover more territory with fewer Bishops as the Church recovers from this. (Of course Our Lady has given us God’s promise of Divine intervention once the Consecration is finally done.)
p.s.
Speaking of Fatima, have you heard the news about Sister Lucia’s heretofore unpublished private memoir which the Vatican has suddenly given permission to release? If not, see our post below. It’s being presented by her former sisters in the cloister, and includes a dire prediction not heard from her before.
From p.25 of The latest [Autumn 2014] Fatima Crusader:
The cloister of Sister Lucia has been given permission to release a never-before seen memoir (?) including the following future vision:
“The point of a lance like a flame that is detached, touches the axis of the earth and it trembles: mountains, cities, towns and villages with their inhabitants are buried. The sea, the rivers, the clouds, exceed their boundaries, inundating and dragging with them, in a vortex, houses and people in a number that cannot be counted. It is the purification of the world from the sin in which it is immersed. Hatred, ambition, provoke the destructive war. After I felt my heart my racing heart, in my spirit a soft voice said: “In time, one faith, one baptism, one Church, Holy, Catholic, Apostolic. In eternity Heaven!”
“This word ‘Heaven’ filled my heat with peace and happiness in such a way that, almost without being aware of it, I kept repeating to myself for a long time: Heaven, Heaven.”
#36
Apologies–last line typo correction:
This word ‘Heaven’ filled my HEART with peace and happiness in such a way that, almost without being aware of it, I kept repeating to myself for a long time: Heaven, Heaven.”
More reasons for Gratitude:
Fr. Gary Dickson shared his inspiring conversion story-first to the Faith at age 20, and then from N.O. to TLM
“.. I grew up: dog racing, football and weekend beer instead of Church. skinheads.. tattooed..”
“..having seen The Song of Bernadette and fallen in love with ‘the lady of Lourdes’.. my family advised me to be an Anglican/Episcopalian, “because then you can get married as well”, but my response was..“No; I want to be a proper priest”..if Henry VIII had started his own Church it couldn’t be Christ’s Church..”.
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“..I bought F.J.Sheed’s “Theology and Sanity”; Ott’s “Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma” and Philip Hughes’ “A Popular History of the Catholic Church”..these fed me well, and I simply found myself living with the ancient Faith.
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“..[at]the local Seminary I was told ..I was “too narrow and needed to be opened up”. ..anything from before 1965 was viewed rather negatively; we were even to be ashamed of our ‘imperialistic’ missionary work. But it was the emphasis on replacing ‘clericalism’ with ‘pal-priests’ and replacing Canon Law with ‘pastoral care’ that did me the most damage: I could filter out the errors in what we were taught, but ordained as a ‘pal priest’ under the banner of ‘God loves us just as we are’..allowing me to ditch the clerical collar..even when doing pastoral work..disabled me in both seeking and promoting holiness of life. ” “I celebrated liturgy as reverently as I could, and I preached The Faith as it has been handed down, but ..there was an incongruity about me that destroyed my inner peace. I couldn’t discover my integrity in the Novus Ordo because when one is facing the people and taught to engage with the people, one unavoidably becomes a bit of a performer, focusing on the people and the here and now, rather than on God and the eternal.
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..”I was given the opportunity to celebrate the TLM for a priest friend going on holiday, and I suddenly rediscovered what I was about. ..”Celebrating the TLM stopped me in my tracks: this was how the ancient saints celebrated -how can I be seen around in my biking gear, be careless with my conversation then come in and offer the Mass as it has been handed down to us by the great saints? How could I offer the Sacrifice of the Mass and be making little or no sacrifice of myself in daily life? I rediscovered my Traditionalism and returned to the wearing of the clerical collar for my pastoral work.”
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I remain ‘Traditionally’ Catholic because I see where the alternative leads us by subconscious submission to concupiscence. Indeed the person-centred attitude in the Church of today is…bringing souls of pastors and people alike to the brink of destruction. I am deeply concerned by this because the people of God are being led astray, which is not countered by pastors who have been fooled by the false light of the person-centred Gospel..they support homosexual pairings, cohabitation, contraception et al, as though these are alternatives within the Gospel rather than alternatives to the Gospel.
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“.. too many have erred and unconsciously swapped spirituality for psychology..Christ for Carl Rogers; the understanding of human nature passed on by the saints for the theories of Freud, Jung, Klein et al., which is why they fail to speak up clearly, consistently and publicly for human life and natural marriage in all its facets.
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We must pray for our priests.. and for the Synod, that they may rediscover Gospel Truth. All have been shaped by the psychological theories of the 1950’s and 60’s and cannot see their errors simply because these are not errors when viewed through their kind of ‘formation’ –which has also affected the priests who trained under them.
http://catholiccollarandtie.blogspot.com/ September 29, 2014
Hmm…. now I have….well this new revelation is evidently not meant literally because Our Blessed Mother seals the interpretation…
It could simply be that the Church is the Axis of the glob, the globe’s motion Her fidelity, and when V2 obstructed Her fidelity, the whole world is undone, with the stability of the Faith (crust) stripped from the world…
But who knows….
Jesus gave us a new commandment. To love our neighbor. If you don’t love your neighbor then you don’t love God. For if you love Jesus then you would keep His commandments. Loving God and loving neighbor are bound together. Our love for the Lord is manifest in our good works. In fact Jesus commanded to love our enemies! If we separate the two then we are no better then the Jews who avoided idols but had no love of neighbor and challenged Jesus for healing on the Sabbath.
198. What is the first commandment of God?
The first commandment of God is: I am the Lord thy God; thou shalt not have strange gods before Me.
Thou shalt not have strange Gods before me. Thou shalt not make to thyself a graven thing, nor the likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or in the earth beneath, nor of those things that are in the waters under the earth. (Exodus 20:3-4)
199. What are we commanded by the first commandment?
By the first commandment we are commanded to offer to God alone the supreme worship that is due Him.
It is written, “The Lord thy God shalt thou worship, and him only shalt thou serve.” (Luke 4:8)
200. How do we worship God?
We worship God by acts of faith, hope, and charity, and by adoring Him and praying to Him.
201. What does faith oblige us to do?
Faith obliges us: first, to make efforts to find out what God has revealed; second, to believe firmly what God has revealed; third, to profess our faith openly whenever necessary.
Therefore, everyone who acknowledges me before men, I also will acknowledge him before my Father in heaven. (Matthew 10:32)
202. What does hope oblige us to do?
Hope obliges us to trust firmly that God will give us eternal life and the means to obtain it.
Paul, a servant of God and apostle of Jesus Christ, in accordance with the faith of God’s elect and the full knowledge of the truth which is according to piety, in the hope of life everlasting which God, who does not lie, promised before the ages began. (Titus 1:1-2)
203. What does charity oblige us to do?
Charity obliges us to love God above all things because He is infinitely good, and to love our neighbor as ourselves for the love of God.
“He alone loves the Creator perfectly
who manifests a pure love for his neighbor.”
–St. Bede the Venerable
It is our love of God and neighbor that motivates us to speak out in defense of the Truths of the Catholic faith.
Dear James the Lesser,
Beautiful. And Jesus gave us the perfect example, of that. After all the hours He spent praying at night and spreading the Gospel all day it all culminated at the moment in the garden of Olives when He let it flow to all mankind saying “Fiat voluntas Tua ” to the heavenly Father’s plan. And Our Lady and St. John were the perfect reflections of that at the foot of the cross and beyond, faithful to the end.
I have not read the article, but I was intrigued by the title. I just scrolled through looking at before & after pictures. Could it be that the tide has turned? From wreckovation to renovation…. http://www.crisismagazine.com/2014/lovely-thy-dwelling-place
Amen!
Amen!
Dear Roman Watcher,
It hadn’t occurred to us not to take it literally, but that makes perfect sense-especially if it was meant to be part of the third secret,(as Father Gruner is taking it) and was to be evident by 1960. That’s exactly what happened with the moral and political revolutions going on at the same time, VII forging ahead, and then the explosion of confusion with the demolition of Churches and the devastation that followed. It goes along with the abyss opening up in Revelations, too, and the “vortex” that creates sucking all the lost down into it.
Dear James,
We’re not talking about dismissing the need to love our neighbors. We’re simply pointing out that Jesus Himself made the distinction between what He called the Greatest and First Commandment, and the second “which is like it”.
Why do people object to that fact? It in no way takes anything away from loving neighbor, or the connection between the two, to put loyalty to God on a higher plane. Of course the two need to be present together in us. But making the love of God a priority, keeps our love of neighbor in proper perspective. Thus we don’t choose devotion to family over devotion to God, for instance. As Jesus said, “Anyone not willing to turn their backs…..is not worth of the Kingdom.
So what’s the deal with insisting you change the way Jesus said it to accommodate another aspect of the idea?
IF, where in that text does it state that God is not due a higher plane? As you can see in the post I posted of the Baltimore Cathechism.. love of neighbor is an expression of charity due to God and included in the first commandment.
IF, seems to me that text assumes exactly what you stated about proper context. That is Catholic dogma after all. I don’t see anywhere in that text that love of family should come before love of God.
And today, we have more news of “Francis the merciful”.
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Illegal suspension of six Franciscan’s (FFI) without due process.
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Link here: http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2014/10/totalitarian-dictatorship-in.html
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“The actions of Clement XIV when of the suppression of the Jesuits were much more lenient, and, despite the collective harshness and injustice of the measure, were filled with charity for the individual priests, appropriately placed in different settings where they could be useful for the Church (usually as diocesan priests). And at this moment in history there is no Catherine the Great stubbornly unwilling to enforce exterior orders and to protect by chance innocent priests from abuse, as the Jesuits of Poland.”
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Bolsheviks consider the concept of “mercy” as “weakness”.
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Aggiornamento for me, but not for thee.
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PS There is a sanctuary, and it is the SSPX. They can use 400 good men. 😉
And for the doctrinal aficionado’s on this website, here is an interesting post on the Eponymous Flower website, pertaining to the Modernist Rome/SSPX situtuation.
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Link here:http://eponymousflower.blogspot.com/2014/10/fellay-and-muller-doctrinal-preamble.html
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The author writes:
“If you read today’s news from Radio Vatican, it suggests rather a more open modus vivendi to recognize the parallels to be the “solution” in the so-called disputes on grace of the 16th and early 17th century. At that time, theologians of the Jesuit and the Dominican orders were disputing over questions of the doctrine of grace, namely about the right relationship between divine grace and human participation in the process of justification, and they accused each other of being heretics. In 1607, Pope Paul V ruled that everyone should provisionally retain his theological position and collect arguments to refute the other side, but that it was forbidden to denounce each other. The Apostolic See will, as it was then be called to decide the question of content “soon”. To date, no Pope has decided this question.”
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Very interesting arrangement, when combined with a “Personal Prelature” under which the SSPX keeps control of their seminaries, property and finances?
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All that is needed is the most important element, namely “good will” from the side of the modernists. 😉
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OK! Ain’t gonna happen.
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Further thought. Wonder how much of this ” thawing in the cold war on Catholicism” from the side of the modernists is due to their brutal repression of the “Catholicism” still subsisting within Modernist Rome.
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Dangling the carrot would not deter the SSPX from accepting the FFI. But it does play mind games with the FFI clerics thinking of coming across.
And one for the “and the plot thickens”.
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More details about the “secret” visitation to the diocese of bishop Finn.
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Link here: http://www.catholicregister.org/item/18898-ottawa-archbishop-investigates-u-s-bishop?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TheCatholicRegister+%28The+Catholic+Register+-+Canada%E2%80%99s+Catholic+news+source+since+1893%29
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Pew Sitter writes: Ottawa Abp. Terrence Prendergast sent secretly to investigate Bp. Finn’s diocese while he was in Rome.
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Sneaky rascals, them “bomb sniffer outers”.
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And yes, the problem that the modernists have is:
“Finn has retained the support of widely read priest-blogger Fr. John Zuhsdorf, who recently reported how popular the bishop is with young priests and seminarians and has consistently supported the bishop as orthodox Catholic. The Catholic League has also publicly supported Finn.”
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Can’t have any of the Catholic stuff going on in the heartland. 😉
…and finally, eye candy from across the pond.
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Link here: http://www.newliturgicalmovement.org/2014/10/news-from-icksp-in-england.html#.VCz0U1fDWpg
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Enjoy.
Yes, the tide definitely has turned.
And this. Sandro Magister takes on the “Livieres affair”.
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Presents the case for the defense.
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Link here:http://chiesa.espresso.repubblica.it/articolo/1350884?eng=y
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The brutality and thuggishness is on display for all to see.
And Fr. Blake chimes in on the Bishop Finn affair.
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Link here: http://marymagdalen.blogspot.com/2014/10/investigatons.html
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Fr. Blake writes:
“The problem that Pope Francis seems to be launching investigations into bishops who tend to go against the “spirit of collegiality” using covering up abuse as of minors as an excuse. In the US Bishop Finn is in the firing line but as Nueva Primavera points out there are even better candidates in the US, and he hasn’t even touched on Ireland or Belgium or the UK.”
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The old Italian saying goes that “desert tastes best, when it is served cold”. 😉
Dear JamesTheLesser,
Your questions:
” ..where in that text does it state that God is not due a higher plane? As you can see in the post I posted of the Baltimore Catechism.. love of neighbor is an expression of charity due to God and included in the first commandment.” …. I don’t see anywhere in that text that love of family should come before love of God.”
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1.We never claimed any of the damaging results we cited were written into the document’s text, and of course they weren’t.
2.We also never implied the text is bad or harmful on the grounds there is no intimate connection between loving God and loving neighbor.
– So claiming you don’t see the results we cited written there, and citing a catechism about the connections between the two, don’t address the issue we raised.
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The fact that good ideas can be drawn from parts of a statement doesn’t refute or disprove what we wrote, either. Anyone can meditate on something which is true but which lacks some essential elements which makes it harmful in the long-run, and still find good in what there is of truth in it.
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-Our point was the harm we’ve seen come from altering the words of Christ recorded in Scripture- which separate the Love of God and Love of neighbor into two distinct commandments-one He called the “Greatest” and ” First”, and the other he called “the second, which is like it”. Thus dividing them and describing them each with different words. That was a teaching moment, not something insignificant.
–You have still not addressed these facts or the significance of the Council’s deliberately eliminating Our Lord’s distinction.
– If you really want to discuss this, or try to prove something to us, it would be most helpful to first address the reasons you believe Jesus made such definite distinctions, and then state why you think it did no harm for the Council to have eliminated them while emphasizing that particular teaching.
Dear JamesTheLessor,
All of the things you cited here are true, but don’t address the issue Lynda and Roman Watcher were discussing, which is the re-writing of the actual words of Christ regarding the “First and Greatest” Commandment that sums up the whole law, merging the second with it..
-Your citations include the first commandment of the Decalogue, which, along with the 2nd and 3rd, demonstrate the priority God commands we give to the honor and worship and love due to Him in truth and justice, so necessary for our well-being as His creatures.
The remaining 7, are concerned with how we treat our fellow humans.
-Now, just to clarify the point in question with an example, what would you say if someone re-wrote this first Commandment- to combine it with the first one that addresses our neighbor- to read:
I am the Lord thy God; thou shalt not have strange gods before Me or your father and mother.”
–One could argue that there is nothing wrong with forbidding putting strange gods before one’s parents, as it also goes against the honor due them. Yet it does distorts the intention God obviously had, when making these points individually. It’s not a perfect analogy, but we hope this helps you understand the current objections to re-writing and merging the two summarizing commandments Jesus gave us, which is what was done in the council document in question.
–Also, we hope you realize it’s not a sin to criticize them for their inadequacies, as this was deliberately kept by the Pope from being declared a Dogmatic Council.
Thanks for posting the link to Magister’s piece. We will see many good Bishops fall like dominos now. And faithful Cardinals too. Now is the winter of our discontent – it’s coming. Pray The Rosary!
With the Barrister Full Employment Act called “Himan Rights Commissions” in force.