Yes, you read that right; the Holy Father’s mother is expecting, and it’s a girl! And if that’s not un-freakin-believable enough; it’s a bishop too!
I know, it sounds like I’ve lost my ever lovin’ mind and indeed someone has, but don’t blame me; I’m just one of the sheep blissfully following the path chosen by his chief shepherd.
You see, back in February, Pope Francis made a humble little video greeting for attendees of the Kenneth Copeland Ministries Conference (KCMC), a gathering of evangelical heretics from all over the world.
The video was made at the suggestion of Tony Palmer, the founder of the Ark Community, which describes itself as an “an internet-based, Inter-denominational Christian Convergent Community, drawing our spirituality from the ‘Early Church.’”
Ark is a member of the Communion of Evangelical Episcopal Churches which “attempts to maintain and practice the faith as given by the Apostles through the mother Church of the worldwide Anglican family – the Church of England.” (We’ll revisit this “mother Church” thing in a moment.)
In his greeting to the KCMC, in addition to asking the heretics for their blessing, Pope Francis called Tony Palmer, who was recording the video at the Vatican with his iPhone, “my brother bishop.”
Last week, Tony’s “mother Church,” the Church of England, voted in favor of so-called “female bishops.”
“Women will be bishops like all other bishops with no distinction at all,” said Justin Welby, the leader of the Church of England.
OK, so you do the math; it’s not terribly complicated:
Given that Tony Palmer is the Holy Father’s “brother bishop,” when the Church of England gives Tony a “sister bishop,” Pope Francis will get one too!
Isn’t that awesome?
Pope Francis has made it exceedingly clear, as the papal defenders of all things ludicrous love to remind us, that he is “a son of the Church.”
This is good to know, but it raises some obvious questions in light of the present discussion:
Who precisely does Jorge Bergoglio understand to be his mother Church? Does he imagine her to be the same one claimed by his “brother bishop,” Tony?
This post is the height of ridiculous. I know it, and that’s the point:
Ridiculous is exactly where one ends up by following the uncontested words of the current pope to their logical conclusion.
And that, my friends, is a very serious problem.
The bottom line is this: Pope Francis and his stunning lack of concern for safeguarding the sacred deposit of Christian doctrine as summed up in Fr. Lombardi’s explanation of a “new genre of papal speech not concerned with precision,” is poison in the Church.
Some may wish to ignore the many scandalous things Pope Francis says and does on a near weekly basis; others may prefer to twist themselves into pretzels trying to explain them, but until his unspeakably irresponsible behavior is met head-on and publicly condemned, it will come back to haunt us again and again.
In truth, it isn’t primarily up to me, or Michael Matt or Chris Ferrara or John Vennari or anyone else in the media to set the record straight. Oh, everyone who claims to be Catholic has a solemn duty to do so, don’t get me wrong, but ultimately it is up to the bishops and the cardinals of Holy Church to speak up in defense of the truth for the good of souls.
Shhhhh… Do you hear that?
It’s dead silence.
And so we wait and pray and fast some more. In the meantime, let’s ask a few more questions.
What exactly is the difference between Tony Palmer, Justin Welby and Bishop Betty Boop?
The answer: Nothing. They’re all heretics in Halloween costumes who need to renounce their errors and return to the one true Church of Christ, the Catholic Church. Tony is no more a bishop than Justin who is no more a bishop than Betty.
All of which brings me to ask why so many Catholics are treating the Church of England’s decision to play make-believe-bishop with women like it’s such a big deal?
The big deal here is the way our pope treats heretics. Who cares if they decide to “ordain” puppies?
Last question: Will Pope Francis one day bow his head before Bishop Boop to receive her blessing?
I hope important people are reading this blog.
I’m sure Mark Shea is working on a civil rebuttal to this skull-crushing line of logical thinking as we speak.
Question for Louie: are these Anglicans the same ones that Pope Benedict folded into the Catholic church during his reign? As I recall, the Anglicans “joined us”, but they get to stay married and keep their “identities as Anglicans.” They don’t have to renounce their Protestant ways, right? And these women can “say mass.” Great. I can hardly wait.
If any clergy are waiting for someone else to take the lead at the October assembly of the Synod, I doubt it will happen. I do not know the full details or the ultimate outcome, but the “working document” of the 2008 assembly contains the following statement that will interest faithful believers in the inerrancy of Scripture (#15(c); emphases added):
“[W]ith regards to what might be inspired in the many parts of Sacred Scripture, inerrancy applies only to ‘that truth which God wanted put into sacred writings for the sake of salvation’ (DV 11)”.
As I mentioned, I do not know the final outcome of the assembly. All I do know is that statement is accessible on the Vatican Web site without any editorial comment or correction.
Dear Lord, may one or more of the Cardinals or bishops, speak ou against the ever-increasing scandals, and try to lead errant souls back to the Faith, and the moral life.
Dear Lynda. There was a bishop that spoke out very loudly and publicly and clearly and consistently. And that was Archbishop Lefebvre. And he was excommunicated. Meanwhile, the likes of bergoglio are in “full communion”. What’s wrong with this picture? Lord, help me. Lord have mercy on us all. Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea máxima culpa.
Homosexual priests, homosexual bishops, a homosexual pope???
Women priests, women bishops, a woman pope????
Cross-dressing priests…. ….???????
Married priests…. ……???????????
Married lesbian priests…. ….. ????????????????
Where does it end?
The answer is that it never ends until there are no more priests and no more Catholic Church — at least not one that you would recognize.
+ + +
Let’s just stop falling into this ridiculous liberal/atheist/diabolical trap. The Church has 2000 years of tradition. By now don’t you think that God has spoken? Do you think God would just let us follow mistaken traditions for 2000 years and then suddenly at the dawning of an anti-Catholic, “new age of aquarius” give us the message — “through the holy spirit” of course — that all the Saints and the Martyrs got it wrong? Uh, no. Not in 2000 years or 2000 more years.
Solemn Nonsense
********************
Michael got himself a sword,
to chase away the evil horde.
For years he labored faithfully,
His Vortex helping Bishops see
the errors of their words and deeds,
and how to properly plant seeds.
___
The common man now hoped and dreamed,
could this be real? for so it seemed,
an HONEST MAN had come to fight,
against all falsehoods, with the Light
of Truth unchanging-taught with zeal,
this one has NO Achille’s heel!
___
No man’s approval doth he seek,
undaunted he will always speak
to warn the lambs where errors hide,
for one thing he can NOT abide
is that which leads mankind to vice,
or worst of all, the CHURCH OF NICE!
___
No praising false religions here,
Go Baptize, make Our Lord’s words clear
No placing MANKIND at our head
those heretics don’t share our bed.
___
No Eucharist in Mortal sin,
quick close the doors, don’t let them in.
Now sit right down, hang on to hope,
I’ll be right back–gotta see the Pope…..
*******************************************
(I’m back…)
Don’t criticize the Holy Father!
his mixed up words are too much bother.
He sounds just like a HERETIC!?
Oh just CHILL OUT, Don’t make me sick!
In time it all will be made right,
go on, relax, no need to fight.
___
Of course I don’t quite sound like me,
I just got back from the Holy See,
This 666 is upside down
It’s 999, you silly clown,
in German that means “NO, NO, NO!”
let’s do a Tango Dos-si-Dos
Don’t Proselytize
Evangelize
Now go to bed,
and close your eyes.
****************************
THE END (or so it seems)
.
Dear Mary Regina,
We’re sure someone else here can do a better job answering your question, but until then, we’re pretty sure the Anglicans in Louie’s post are the still-separated ones. Those you refer to were given a rite of their own within the Church, but there are no plans to make women priests or Bishops
(unless the Pope did another interview we haven’t yet seen)
(just kidding) 🙂
Bravo! Bravo!
Brilliant!
(c) 2014 Indignus Famulus
Thanks, Michael,
It helped us let off a little steam. 🙂
To the modernist, of course, none of this seems crazy at all.
—–
To the modernist, revelation proceeds not from God to man, but from man’s conscience, “up”. Thus, to them, is doctrine invariably nothing but a subjective approximation, at best, of immutable truth – if such even exists and is knowable.
—–
So, then, it seems entirely reasonable indeed to address a man who looks like a bishop and whom many people regard as a bishop as “bishop”. Who’s to say such a man has no mandate from the Lord (even though its an objective fact that these man have no Apostolic mandate or connection of any sort)? Who’s to say where Truth lies? After all, the Council tells us that no longer is it the mandate of a Catholic to share Truth with the world, but rather to dialogue with it so that all can hopefully come, clumsily yet grinning like idiots, to some crude approximation of it. But, that crude approximation will surely be good enough for all because we can celebrate Man himself, the source of all goodness!
—–
Two words: “diabolical disorientation”. They just never cease to ring true.
Dear Mary,
—–
At least those Anglicans were good enough to wish to join the one, true Church and come into union with the See of Peter. Married priests are not an abomination or even sinful, though celibate clergy are the ideal (as Paul explained long ago).
—–
But, no, these Anglicans are something different entirely, and why on earth would they seek to “join” the “true Church” when the head thereof has already told them they’re in it, no matter what they believe, what they do, or whom they do or do not submit to?
—–
Mr. Palmer (who is as much a bishop as our cat is – I’m so sorry if that basic truth offends anyone) also declared in the event Louie speaks of that the Catholic Church is where “Faith goes to DIE”, yet even such impolite opinions are not enough to dispel ecumenitis when it has reach feverish stages.
—–
And, heck, he’s right: only dead faith regards Mr. Palmer as a bishop.
Indeed, Michael! But all we have to remember is this: Athanasius, Saint and Doctor, was excommunicated too.
You composed this? Great stuff.
Dear A Catholic Thinker,
We read Mr. Voris’ latest tirade and felt inspired–especially by his “Chill”.
Hey, we’re still praying –is the little one due soon?
God Bless you and your family.
I thought Tony Palmer was a Lutheran, but who knows who is who now-a-days. The truth is the more we warm up to the other sects, the farther we push them away from true ecumenism. If the truth does not convince them, being so nice certainly will not. It only confirms that they are on the right path themselves. The new Anglican Rite was a response to aberrations just like this one in the Anglican community. So they reject it to join the Catholic Church to find out that we laud it now. What a mess! and we thought the 60s were bad.
Anastasia is not due to “pop out” (as the other kids say) until 12/6 – thank you for asking and for your prayers.
We love the way Louie phrased it at the end–it’s SO true:
“They[re all heretics in Halloween costumes….”
Here is a response from one who voted for the ordination of women bishops:
Some of those voting for the new measures admitted they were comprising their personal beliefs in order to conform to modern society. “I shall be voting in favor today,” Adrian Vincent said, one of those who voted against the legislation in the house of laity in 2012. “By doing so, I am betraying what I believe, I am betraying those who trusted in me.”
Now that is the clearest definition of VII I have read so far.
Wonderful, we’ll pray to St. Nicholas, then 🙂
This tension between conscience and conformity is the stuff that conversions are made from. “All things work unto good, for him who believeth in the Lord.
Yes.
—–
St. Francis de Sales was possibly the greatest Catholic apologist to Protestants there ever has been. His book – The Catholic Controversy – probably has never been topped (despite how knowledgable some modern apologists are). This work has a substantial section devoted to the fact that the pretenders have “no mission” – then, as now, their get-up is, indeed, nothing but costumes.
—–
This great saint (who I believed personally converted around 50,000 Protestants with his tracts and sermons) never shied from blunt truth, out of charity.
A Catholic Thinker,
Fascinating, and a Francis one can safely imitate. Thanks for the book reference, too. We hadn’t heard of it.
Hi Louie. Good news! We have at least one Cardinal speaking out and refuting scalfari/bergoglio on the issue of priestly celibacy — German cardinal Walter Brandmüller, for more than twenty years the president of the Pontifical Committee for Historical Sciences.
http://chiesa.espresso.repubblica.it/articolo/1350847?eng=y
*************
In particular, it must be emphasized in the first place that celibacy by no means dates back to a law invented 900 years after the death of Christ. It is instead the Gospels according to Matthew, Mark, and Luke that report the words of Jesus in this regard.
[ . . . . ]
It is interesting to note that the contestation of the precept of celibacy has always coincided with signs of decadence in the Church, while in times of renewed faith and cultural blossoming one has noted a strengthened observance of celibacy.
–
And it is certainly not difficult to draw historical parallels with the current crisis from these observations.
*************
More proof that:
“Ridiculous is exactly where one ends up by following the uncontested words of the current pope to their logical conclusion.”
http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/cchd-denies-grant-to-illegal-immigrant-group-that-supports-gay-marriage
*******************
The Catholic Campaign for Human Development has denied a $75,000 grant to [Voz] an immigration advocacy group because of its affiliation with [La Raza] a national organization lobbying for same-sex “marriage.”
–
Matt Cato, director of the office that administers CCHD in the Archdiocese of Portland, told Street Roots, “Voz’s withdrawal from consideration for a grant with CCHD will not diminish the public and active support of the Office of Life, Justice and Peace on the core efforts of Voz.”
[Got that? The Archdiocese of Portland will presumably continue to send Church $$$’s to Voz despite their advocacy of same-sex “marriage”.]
–
The decision to cut funding met with swift backlash from the economic and social Left.
–
Tom Chamberlain, president of the Oregon chapter of the AFL-CIO, said, “My hat’s off to Voz” for saying, “Hell no to the Catholics.”
–
The United Workers Congress said, “Some elements in the Church are insisting that it couple its grantmaking with a witch hunt that runs entirely counter to the church’s social teaching and the recent leadership of Pope Francis.”
–
More than 1,500 people have signed a petition demanding the Catholic Church “stop bullying social justice organizations with litmus tests over LGBT equality and restore $75,000 in funding,” as of this writing. “With the new Pope, a new era of openness and acceptance is appearing,” it states.
*******************
Hurricane jorge continues to cause devastating destruction in major parts of the Catholic world. Forecasts are for hurricane jorge to increase in size fueled by the warm waters in the kitchen of Casa Santa Marta. Already the death toll includes the loss of countless souls and many more are facing slow spiritual starvation from the lack of access to clean Catholic teaching on the faith. Highly communicable heretical diseases are rampant in the areas already destroyed and forecasters say that these may ultimately lead to a higher death toll than that caused by the highly destructive winds emerging from the mouth of the storm.
–
For the latest up to the moment news on this “storm of the last two millenium” please stay tuned to Louie Verrecchio at “Harvesting the fruit of Vatican II”. Donations in the form of personal prayers can be left at your local parish tabernacle. Or you can pray a Rosary anywhere and the proceeds will immediately go to God for distribution to those souls most in need of mercy.
These Anglican “priests” and “bishops” aren’t actual priests and bishops anyway. Just because they think they are doesn’t make it so, except in their own mind. But yes indeed, the Pope’s reaction (or lack thereof) to heretic religions will bite him in the end. And us. Lord have mercy on us.
Dear Catholic ,
Married incontinent clergy are an abomination and it degrades not only the priesthood and the sacrament of marriage but scandalizes the faithful who are to see the priest as configuring Christ who is wedded exclusively to our Mother Church. please read Dr. Edward peters paper on Canonical Considerations of Diaconal Continence to see the debate that is raging about the married clergy’s obligation of continence and living as brother and sister with his wife’s permission. If she does not permit it no ordination is to take place.Please read up on the theological foundations fo priestly celibacy. Another good book to read that will help you not to be persuaded to slowly accept the idea of married incontinent clergy is Apostolic Origins of Priestly Celibacy by Father Christian Cochini.
Dear Michael Leon,
Funny! 🙂 Title the two topics -the Hot Air Report. 🙂
Dear Michael Leon,
As I tried to help Catholic Thinker on this serious topic of clerical celibacy I hope to steer you in the right direction. Yes this cardinal is at least attempting to somewhat defend the teachings on celibacy but he falls seriously short on it’s defense when he says, which by the way is his opinion, that the Catholic Church allowed the Eastern rite to continue in their ways of blaspheming perfect and perpetual continence for married clergy for the sake of unity. To say that they remained silent on it would be a better assessment. The most courage they could muster up at the time was to not allow married Eastern Rite clergy to serve as priests in the United States beginning in the 1800s due to the scandal and confusion they would give to other Catholics in regards to the theological foundations of priestly celibacy. One must realize that today the understanding of celibacy continence is so weak in the Catholic Church do to the sellout on inverting the primary purpose of marriage of procreation and education of children for God’s glory to it’s secondary purpose of unity of the couple. The Eastern rite culture are the Elderly brothers of protestantism which rejects the pope and our Lord’s teaching on marriage and the priesthood. They are not wholly against contraception and divorce. And this my friend is linked to their deviation from celibacy continence for married clergy.
In Dr. Edward Peters paper on Canonical Considerations of Deaconical Continence he references documents that show that John Paul II did not have the guts to be so bold as to clearly abolish continence for married deacons when they were reinstated back into Holy Orders. The drafters of the 1983 code of canon law presented a clear law stating they are not required to perfect and perpetual continence and John Paul II said no we can’t do that. That is how we got the canon 277 that says that all clergy are to be celibate. Of course this confusing statement led most people to interpret it themselves to mean excluding married deacons.Dr. Edward Peters proves that it can not be interpreted to mean that. Please read the paper and Father Christian Cochini’s well documented book on Apostolic Origins of priestly Celibacy.
Celibacy is not just for the clergy it is also for the benefit of the faithful. To believe that we can blend marriage with the priesthood with no serious repercussion to the doctrines governing and protecting the priesthood and marriage and the Catholic Faith is to be sorely impoverished in understanding the fundamentals of our Catholic faith on purity, the priesthood, ,
marriage and what Heaven will be like and what it takes to get to Heaven.
Dear Indignus Famulus
I’d say this came to you with little effort – inspired.
What it’s says, is so sad, but clearly true.
I really didn’t think Michael Voris would abandon his reason and fidelity to the One True Faith (and therefore, the Church) in this way. Heartbreaking.
Dear Catholic Thinker,
Once again, thank you for pointing out a tremendous asset in the spiritual coffers of the True Church. “The Catholic Controversy”
___
We found this book free on-linehttps://archive.org/stream/catholiccontrove00sain#page/n9/mode/2up
___
The preface is a treasure by itself, and we believe, points to one of the greatest causes of our current distress as Catholics.
___
For if what we have in common with most protestants, is the belief that Scripture is the external standard of the Right Rule of Faith, (which they have altered) then their rejection of Tradition eliminates the necessary “judge” to explain, apply and declare the meaning of its words.
____
Tradition provides that “judge” and each of the voices by which she utters her decision become part of the “Rule of Faith” …and THAT is “her own general body, Council Fathers, Supreme head and mouthpiece (Pope and successors of Peter).”
” MIRACLES AND HARMONY OF DOCTRINE may be considered the complement of the rule of Faith”
____,
What struck us most forcefully, is the realization that not only are we battling the Church’s long-term adversaries who succumbed to Satan’s lies over the centuries, but we are WITHOUT this above-described reliable “judge” and forced to resort to the last thing on the list–the Harmony of Doctrine and the Miracles (like Fatima) which contradict our current leaders’ thinking on so many issues.
___
Thus is becomes almost “impossible” to win converts to the True Church at this time, excepting of course, the truth that nothing is impossible with God.
___
We can’t wait to read the body of St. Francis’ work here. It was also fascinating to read that he never published it, but only wrote it because the Calvinists refused to listen to him preach. Thank you, again.
Dear Michael Leon,
Here is a link that might be of interest. https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7hBp0kQWGfnUURmNWxvOGFxc2c/edit?usp=sharing
…and here’s a link to Catholic Controversy
Trying the link again
https://archive.org/details/catholiccontrove00sain
Dear Lynda,
Agreed, it is heartbreaking, and at the same time we feel a fair amount of growing, justified anger with every attack he has been launching against fellow Catholics who do not choose to wear the gag he has imposed on himself. If he’s following his conscience, it’s sad but forgivable that he’s clammed up.
__ But he has no right or reason to impose his will on the consciences of others, who rightly justify it as solemn responsibility to publicly denunciation of grave errors issuing from the mouth of his apparent “idol”. We can respect the office God established while we defend Truth.
___ And the statement “Where Peter is, there is the Church, is still true. When the currant occupant of the Chair of Peter utters things as true which are false and directly contradicts the things Peter actually said, it is easier to detect the wolf in sheep’s clothing.. Jorge Bergoglio “may” be the Pope, but he is not echoing the voice of Peter or Jesus Christ. We are cautious people, who do not say things like that lightly.
___ All one has to do is read the encyclicals on ecumenism, prior to Vatican II, to see that they are being ignored and defied, and the current attempts are to reverse their prohibitions, making evils into goods. No apologies, we’re just not buying it. Go teach and Baptize.
___
It’s (dare we say it?) as if he has taken on the role of the Prophet of the Beast, promoting papalotry based on “Where Peter is there is the Church”, while the Pope has taken on the role of the Beast, who has entered the Church as if he were God, thinking to change the laws (as the prophet Daniel warned us)
___
The foremost evidences of that in our minds. is the attack on two or more dogmas- mandates from the mouth of Christ Himself.
1. in place of “Go and Baptize all nations, teaching them.”.
we have “proselytism is solemn nonsense” and ” I’m not interested in converting you…and Thank your parents for whatever faith you were taught…and many other forms of that sentiment from too many sources to doubt it as media distortion.
___
2. in place of the dogmatic teachings from Trent on reception of the Sacraments-especially the Eucharist, we have
assurances from Francis that before he went to sleep that night he thought about Cardinal Kasper’s presentation and urging changes in restrictions on the Sacraments which apply to divorced and not annulled civally re-marrieds as
“serene theology” and a publicized phone call to an Argentinian woman telling her (she says) to go ahead and receive in that state..i.e add sacrilege to your other mortal sins–as if to say, I know Jesus would welcome that as I would.
___.
And the sad sad joke continues with the buffoon on the chair of Peter is his own court jesstor in the mist of these phony churchpersons of the C OF E.
GOD HELPS US ALL.
I have now written off Michael Matt, since he asserted, in his new video about “Common Core,” that he does not attend SSPX Masses. So then what exactly are you defending, Mr. Matt? Are you just a more outspoken version of Michael Voris?
Yes, Indignus Famulus, too many instances of utterances to reasonably deny, each one corroborating the truth of the fact of the others, backed up by numerous other things, such as appointments, support for those who oppose tenets of the Faith, or objective moral truths, mistreatment of those who publicly hold to the whole Deposit of Faith, his behaviour before Our Lord in the Blessed Sacrament, the washing of the feet of the representatives of the first priests, his clear and constant attitude towards those who outwardly abide by the Tradition of the Church, including as reflected in the offering of the Holy sacrifice of the Mass – one could go on (incredibly). An overwhelming insurmountable preponderance of evidence. And that is before one adverts to his behaviour before becoming pope which from many irrefutable facts (some visually and aurally recorded) was wholly consistent with the stream of scandals since he rose to the Chair of Peter.
Would that I had not lived at this time, to witness this.
I pray that he will stop doing and saying things that are on their face, in contradiction of the doctrine of the Faith, or the Divine Law. Blessed Michael, defend us in the hour of battle . . .
That is a false dilemma. There is no need to attend an SSPX Mass to do one’s duty as a Catholic. We are required to submit to the Holy See in matters of discipline and governance except where to do so would be in contradiction of the Deposit of Faith or morals. Needless to say the Magisterium on Faith and morals does not change.
The direct rotten fruits are prodigious and egregious – within the institutional Church, at high levels and local levels; among baptised Catholics, with respect to those in organisations or those in positions in civil institutions/authorities; and among private Catholic families and individuals. There are the many cynical opportunists, enemies of the Faith, busy and emboldened in their increased number of, and more extreme and more successful attacks on the Faith and morals; and then there are those who have been influenced or persuaded by objective acts of Pope Francis, to turn away from the Faith, and the moral law.
Dear Great pretender51
Would you please clarify your comments a bit?
___
What if Mr. Matt attends an indult Mass, or the N.O., as so many other Catholics do who know the difference but do not have local access?
Dear Lynda,
We’re reminded by what you write here, of the fact that only 8 people were deemed worthy to be saved in Noah’s Ark.
__
While there seem to be a few more decent folks than that, remaining at this point, we haven’t heard of any plans sent by God to build a fire-proof boat.
___
But then Our Lady did say our refuge will be her Immaculate Heart. Ave Maria et Deo gratias.!
I’m in no danger whatsoever of “slowly accepting married clergy”, I can assure you (and that’s a rather silly conclusion to jump to).
—–
Celibate clergy are certainly the ideal, and, in general, there is no reason to ever permit anything less. However, if you believe that “married incontinent clergy are an *abomination*” (that word means gravely sinful, to be sure), you are at odds with the Church, since married clergy have been permitted at certain times & places. It is a matter of discipline; there is no sin inherent in it.
—–
Again, though, the clergy should be celibate, and there is no doubt that modern motivation toward married clergy comes from modernist influence and has as its true end the destruction of the sacrificial priesthood.
—–
St. Francis de Sales seminal work “The Catholic Controversies” has been mentioned in these comments. In it St. Francis relates the experience of a Protestant woman he was debating challenging him with the argument that priests should be allowed to marry. His reply, paraphrased, was “But, my dear, if I had a wife & children at home I would not be able to spend this fine afternoon talking to you!” In other words, he presented priestly celibacy as primarily a practical matter. Which is not, again, to imply that this reason alone is not sufficient.
—–
The Catholic Encyclopedia page on clerical celibacy makes, of course, numerous arguments in favor of it. It also has this to say (emphasis mine): “Turning now to the historical development of the present law of celibacy, we must necessarily begin with St. Paul’s direction (1 Timothy 3:2, 12, and Titus 1:6) that a bishop or a deacon should be ‘the husband of one wife’. ***These passages seem fatal to any contention that celibacy was made obligatory upon the clergy from the beginning***, but on the other hand, the Apostle’sdesire that other men might be as himself (1 Corinthians 7:7-8), already quoted) precludes the inference that he wished all ministers of the Gospel to be married. The words beyond doubt mean that the fitting candidate was a man, who, amongst other qualities which St. Paul enunciates as likely to make his authority respected, possessed also such stability of divorce, by remaining faithful to one wife. The direction is therefore restrictive, no injunctive; it excludes men who have married more than once, but it does not impose marriage as a necessary condition. This freedom of choice seems to have lasted during the whole of what we may call, with Vacandard, the first period of the Church’s legislation, i.e. down to about the time ofConstantine and the Council of Nicaea.”
—–
And this: “A strenuous attempt has indeed been made by some writers, of whom the late Professor Bickell was the most distinguished, to prove that even at this early date the Church exacted celibacy of all her ministers of the higher grades. ***But the contrary view, represented by such scholars as Funk andKraus, seems much better founded and has won general acceptance of recent years.***”
—–
I do know that St. Peter lived with his wife only as sister after his ordination; I believe this is related by Bl. Anne Catherine Emmerich. Again, there is clearly no doubt that this is the ideal.
—–
But, a married (married in the sense of the word) priest an “abomination”? I can find no substantial support for your position in Tradition, and, frankly, you need to make your case better than you have for you to make the kind of assertions you are. (I’m also at a bit of a loss to explain how you are not accusing St. Paul himself of promoting abomination.)
You are quite welcome. And you will really love this book.
I’m going to repeat my earlier reply to you here:
—–
I’m in no danger whatsoever of “slowly accepting married clergy”, I can assure you (and that’s a rather silly conclusion to jump to).
—–
Celibate clergy are certainly the ideal, and, in general, there is no reason to ever permit anything less. However, if you believe that “married incontinent clergy are an *abomination*” (that word means gravely sinful, to be sure), you are at odds with the Church, since married clergy have been permitted at certain times & places. It is a matter of discipline; there is no sin inherent in it.
—–
Again, though, the clergy should be celibate, and there is no doubt that modern motivation toward married clergy comes from modernist influence and has as its true end the destruction of the sacrificial priesthood.
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St. Francis de Sales seminal work “The Catholic Controversies” has been mentioned in these comments. In it St. Francis relates the experience of a Protestant woman he was debating challenging him with the argument that priests should be allowed to marry. His reply, paraphrased, was “But, my dear, if I had a wife & children at home I would not be able to spend this fine afternoon talking to you!” In other words, he presented priestly celibacy as primarily a practical matter. Which is not, again, to imply that this reason alone is not sufficient.
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The Catholic Encyclopedia page on clerical celibacy makes, of course, numerous arguments in favor of it. It also has this to say (emphasis mine): “Turning now to the historical development of the present law of celibacy, we must necessarily begin with St. Paul’s direction (1 Timothy 3:2, 12, and Titus 1:6) that a bishop or a deacon should be ‘the husband of one wife’. ***These passages seem fatal to any contention that celibacy was made obligatory upon the clergy from the beginning***, but on the other hand, the Apostle’sdesire that other men might be as himself (1 Corinthians 7:7-8), already quoted) precludes the inference that he wished all ministers of the Gospel to be married. The words beyond doubt mean that the fitting candidate was a man, who, amongst other qualities which St. Paul enunciates as likely to make his authority respected, possessed also such stability of divorce, by remaining faithful to one wife. The direction is therefore restrictive, no injunctive; it excludes men who have married more than once, but it does not impose marriage as a necessary condition. This freedom of choice seems to have lasted during the whole of what we may call, with Vacandard, the first period of the Church’s legislation, i.e. down to about the time ofConstantine and the Council of Nicaea.”
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And this: “A strenuous attempt has indeed been made by some writers, of whom the late Professor Bickell was the most distinguished, to prove that even at this early date the Church exacted celibacy of all her ministers of the higher grades. ***But the contrary view, represented by such scholars as Funk and Kraus, seems much better founded and has won general acceptance of recent years.***”
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I do know that St. Peter lived with his wife only as sister after his ordination; I believe this is related by Bl. Anne Catherine Emmerich. Again, there is clearly no doubt that this is the ideal.
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But, a married (married in the sense of the word) priest an “abomination”? I can find no substantial support for your position in Tradition, and, frankly, you need to make your case better than you have for you to make the kind of assertions you are. (I’m also at a bit of a loss to explain how you are not accusing St. Paul himself of promoting abomination.)
Mr. Matt is nothing at all like Voris, and neither was his father – both have done a great deal of work for Tradition over the course of decades.
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(I am an SSPX Mass-goer, and I do think this is the ideal in the present situation, but plenty who attend indult, ICK, and FSSP Tridentine Masses are *on our side*. Michael Matt definitely is; it only takes reading his magazine to see this.)
Dear Anastasia,
When we read your above comments about celibacy, the same Scriptural references came to our minds as those A Catholic Thinker has presented here.
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We recall your comments on a prior blog regarding Dietrich Von Hildebrand, and your similarly “dogmatic” presentation of your views which were damaging to his reputation. Upon researching them, we found not enough evidence to support your conclusions, and some evidence to the contrary from reading Von Hildebrand’s own reasons for considering the virtue of Charity to be of the first consideration in ALL the Sacraments of the Church, including Matrimony.
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Regarding marriage, he applied this law of love, and attempted to demonstrate that the mutual salvation of the spouses is of equal importance to the procreation and guidance towards salvation of each of their children. Your statements, seemed to omit that emphasis and focus on the mutual satisfaction of the spouses, which without that balance, distorts his views..
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We disagree with some of your conclusions, which seem to us to be based on grasping at unproven facts in order to prove a pre-conceived idea, rather than from a more wholesome pursuit of truth. This may be due to a number of factors which are in no way attributable to you as intended, such as your relying on prejudiced writings of others, for example. But we would caution you to tone down your accusations, especially when made against scholars who have passed on, leaving behind them a body of work dedicated to the pursuit of truth despite great opposition of enemies of the Holy Catholic Church.
Sincerely in Christ. God Bless you.
Mary Regina: No they are not the same – those anglicans crossed some form of the Tiber – even if it was only the little twisted conduit called TiberVII. The ‘anglican’ Louie is talking about are tiberless apostolic bodiless DIY ecclesiastical drag kings and queens.
Perhaps the crozier in the baby carriage could be their new coat of arms. Louie said: “Ridiculous is exactly where one ends up by following the uncontested words of the current pope to their logical conclusion..What exactly is the difference between Tony Palmer, Justin Welby and Bishop Betty Boop?” As you say, absolutely nothing. “Last question: Will Pope Francis one day bow his head before Bishop Boop to receive her blessing?” How can he not unless he’s willing contradict his own maghysterium?
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p.s. Catholics who support the Bergoglio months, could only bother being up in arms about this because they know they should be up in arms about something but are too cognitively dissonated to be up in arms about a Bergoglio that has created a maghysterium whereby bp Boop is in fact a ‘brothahsistah’ bishop.
Dear Indignus. I’m glad you enjoyed my attempt at bringing some humor to a sad situation. Actually, you were the one who inspired me with your “Ballad of a Vortex gone astray”….
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Clearly the Voris vortex was blown off course by hurricane jorge. Previous warnings from the meteorlogical department at “Harvesting the Fruits” included small craft warnings. Obviously some — like Michael Voris — ignored those warntings and their small boats are now in danger of capsizing from rushing waves of foul water spewing from the mouth of the storm.
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Angelic rescue boats are busy attempting to save those souls who are currently lost at sea, but due to the delirium caused by the lack of spiritual nourishment some of the victims imagine that their would be guardians are actually attempting to drown them and are resisting all attempts at salvation.
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The latest storm updates have added warnings for even larger craft such as ships of state and even the titanic-sized Barque of St. Peter.
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The captain of the Barque of St. Peter has been advised that any travel outside the home port of the Vatican should be avoided — even normally safe areas in Italy have been deemed unsafe while the current unpredictable weather patterns caused by this global storm persist. In addition to the dangers posed by the weather there are reports that protestant pirates are taking advantage of the unstable situation by launching torpedo attacks on ships flying the Catholic flag.
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When advised of these dangers the captain of the Barque of St. Peter was quoted as replying, “Damn the torpedos — full speed ahead!” But the Vatican spokesman quickly noted that this was not an “interview” interview and therefore even though the captain said exactly what he was quoted as saying he did not say exactly what is contained in the newspaper reports. Specifically the spokesman implied that when the captain said “damn the torpedoes” he really meant “God bless the torpedos” due to a confusion in translating from the language of Gibberish spoken in the Modernist regions that the captain spent most of his adult life inhabiting to the language of Tradition spoken in the Heart of Catholic country.
+ + +
…. ridiculous …. totally ridiculous, but not that far from the truth.
Dear Michael Leon and All:
It’s very possible that the faithful remnant in Israel were feeling much like we all do now, when Ezekiel was sent to announce to their false prophets these words of God:
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CH 13: [22] “Because with lies you have made the heart of the just to mourn, whom I have not made sorrowful: and have strengthened the hands of the wicked, that he should not return from his evil way, and live. [23] Therefore you shall not see vain things, nor divine divinations any more, and I will deliver my people out of your hand: and you shall know that I am the Lord.”
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some weapons of choice: [ Holy Mass, daily Rosary, short prayers, Angelus, Memorare, Scripture meditation, Saints and Church fathers, Scapular, Adoration, offerings of good works, sufferings, & joys]
Rember when priests and bishops were True God-given soldiers of the Apostolic Body of the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church (the one where God-given ‘Tradition teaches Peter, who teaches the people), true soldiers ‘who knowingly and voluntarily choose continence ‘for the Kingdom of Heaven’ (Mt. 19:12). Shame on Bergoglio for having the satanic arrogance to call fakers ‘brothers’; but then I guess a faker would call fakers brothers.
To Michael Leon and all feeling as we do that Pope Francis doesn’t get it:
Contrast his rejection of the work of converting Protestants and others, with these words from St. Frances De Sales, explaining to the Calvinists who wouldn’t listen to him in person, why he made the extra effort to write to them:
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“I assure you, you will never read a writing which shall be given you by any man more devoted to your spiritual service than I am…”
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I thought that as you will receive no other ..interpretation of the Scriptures than that which seems to you the best, you would hear also that which I bring, viz. given by the Apostolic Roman Church, which hitherto you have not had, except perverted and quite disfigured and adulterated by the enemy, who knew well, that had you seen it in its purity, never would you have abandoned it.
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…Take then, gentlemen, this present which I make you…pray God to assist you with His Holy Spirit.. Our Lord, Jesus Christ ..desires all men should be saved and come to the knowledge of His Truth.”
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Pope Francis apparently thinks this was “solemn nonsense”
St. Francis de Sales, pray for him and for all of us, and all the poor souls.
Dear salvemur,
At least we have the assurance from St. Francis that a “faker” would be sent by God: (we edited this for shorter space-usage)
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“Shortly before he died, St. Francis of Assisi called together his followers and warned them of the coming troubles, saying:
“1. …the malice of the wicked will increase.
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“2. The devils will have unusual power… At the time of this tribulation a man, not canonically elected, will be raised to the Pontificate, who, by his cunning, will endeavor to draw many into error and death.
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“3. …many others …will consent to error instead of opposing it.
“4. There will be such diversity of opinions and schisms among the people, the religious and the clergy, that, except those days were shortened, according to the words of the Gospel, even the elect would be led into error, were they not specially guided, amid such great confusion, by the immense mercy of God.
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“5. Then our Rule and manner of life will be violently opposed by some, and terrible trials will come upon us.
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“6. Those who preserve their fervour and adhere to virtue with love and zeal for the truth, will suffer injuries and, persecutions as rebels and schismatics;
for their persecutors, urged on by the evil spirits, will say they are rendering a great service to God by destroying such pestilent men from the face of the earth. but the Lord will be the refuge of the afflicted, and will save all who trust in Him. .. the elect, will act with confidence, and by their death will purchase for themselves eternal life; choosing to obey God rather than man, they will fear nothing, and they will prefer to perish rather than consent to falsehood and perfidy.
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“7. Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it under foot and deny it.
Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor, but a destroyer.”
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So, Are we ready to die for the truth? If not, let’s get ready to answer with a RESOUNDING “YES”!
Why go out any other way, after surviving this much for this long! 🙂
“I hope Important people are reading this blog.”
Will God do?
Contrary to some popular opinions, He’s a Traditional Catholic, and He sees ALL things. (we’re betting He can read, too) 🙂
Michael Matt doesn’t attend SSPX masses, but his non-attendance is not due to any conviction that it would be wrong to do so. He has advised some of his readers to attend SSPX masses, for example, and has said that he would do the same if faced with similar circumstances. I myself attend SSPX masses occasionally, and without any scruples of conscience, but also find that, culturally, I am a bit of a misfit in the SSPX milieu. While I am grateful for Abp. Lefebvre and his gift to the Church, the SSPX is perhaps more insular than it really needs to be. I do think that the SSPX leadership recognizes this problem and is seeking to address it.
Who could possibly contend that this litany of things has not occurred? blessed Michael, the Archangel, defend us in battle . . .
Bergoglio’s papacy is one BIG labor pain—-only this time nothing good will come out of it!!!
Thank you for bringing that to our attention. Maybe the choice of the name Francis had a much more subtle meaning even a prophetic and perfidious one.
Dear my2cents,
As parents and grandparents we feel we must point out—au contraire—
(although short-term you are obviously right), we must be people who see the long-term outcome that Our Lord Himself gave us through the beloved Apostle St. John in the Book of Revelations. One major point in the prophecy of St. Francis mentioned above [#7.] was that “Jesus Christ will send a destroyer..”
And we know that God’s plans are always with greater good in mind.
But after the Woman labors to give birth:
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“And I saw a new heaven and a new earth. [2] And I John saw the holy city, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband…. Behold the tabernacle of God with men, and he will dwell with them. And they shall be his people; and God himself with them shall be their God. [4] And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes: and death shall be no more, nor mourning, nor crying, nor sorrow shall be any more, for the former things are passed away. [5] And he that sat on the throne, said: Behold, I make all things new. And he said to me: Write, for these words are most faithful and true.
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For God to wipe away our tears, we have to first have reason to shed them.
Dear Catholic Thinker,
Married incontinent clergy have never been accepted by the Catholic Church’s teachings from Scripture, Tradition or the Magisterium. Married continent clergy yes have been accepted but not married incontinent clergy who believe or have never been instructed on this that this is not required. This has only come about with the modernist experiment of the 21st century to slowly reinstitute accepting the ordination of priest from married clergy. The act of accepting married men or not married men to be ordained as clergy is a discipline that can be changed but the theological foundations and Church teachings of celibacy-continence cannot be changed. These are immemorial teachings of the Catholic Church that cannot change just as who Christ is cannot change. Please read the links that I have given to Michael Leon in number 10 of the replies. This is a very serious topic and like I send before it will have even further repercussions of destroying our Catholic Faith if we don’t study our history or what the Church councils said in this regard. Many of the Church councils beginning in the 300s have documented the Apostolic origins and teachings of the requirements of perfect and perpetual continence for married clergy. Please read the Apostolic Origins of priestly Celibacy by Father christian Cochini and the links that discuss the hot current debate on the requirement of continence for married clergy that is upsetting a lot of the married deacons and married priest who were conveniently never explained this by the new experimentations of the modern Church.Marriage of course is not sinful but one can choose with the agreement of ones spouse to be continent for a noble purpose such as the priesthood. The grace to be continent is a gift from God and not all are called and are granted this gift. Most married men who believe they are called to the priesthood need to be urgently instructed on the requirement of continence as taught through our Tradition, Scripture, and the Magisterium Church Fathers. Please do some research and read the links.
Thank you, Indignus, for your comments. Anything good that does come from this papacy will not come because of Bergoglio (unless he really surprises us!!) but in spite of him. Of course, Our Lord is in control and it is HE upon whom we rely. God bless!
“The Other Papa Jorge”
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In 2006, my future wife & I took my mother, who had been debilitated by a severe ruptured brain aneurysm, on a pilgrimage to Lourdes followed by Assisi, San Giovanni, Lanciano, and Rome. [Mom eventually made a very substantial recovery.]
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In our tour group was a Hispanic family led by the patriarch they affectionately called “Papa Jorge”. One evening at dinner, another member of the group, a woman from New York in her 50s or 60s, announced that she was pro-choice. Papa Jorge put down his fork, looked her in the eye, raised his hands with them spread apart, and said, “But, madame, you cannot say that God is here [right hand], the devil is here [left hand], and I will be in the middle!”
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I was just thinking this morning how much better a supreme pontiff this simple Papa Jorge would make than the one we’ve got presently.
You know what they say about opinions. Opinions are like…..
Another day…. another interview. This one with the President of the Pontifical Council for the Family, Archbishop Vincenzo Paglia on the topic of the upcoming Oktober revolution [synod on the family] and how this relates to the new e-vandalization.
http://vaticaninsider.lastampa.it/en/inquiries-and-interviews/detail/articolo/sinodo-35354/
Here are some choice quotes from the archbishop — obviously with the full approval of bergoglio [otherwise known as “hurricane jorge – the mouth that roars”].
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The goal of the [Oktober revolution] Synod of Bishops on the Family is not just to repeat doctrines [No, no, no! That would be solemn nonsense!] but to find [heretical] solutions for remarried divorcees and for everyone [Especially soutions that appease the demands of the enemies of the Church. Heil satan!].
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The [“collegial”] Synod needs to equip itself like a field hospital [sound familiar?] to heal the many existing [self-inflicted] open wounds and help build [destroy?] a more solid [crumbling?] future in the [demonic?] spirit of [false] mercy.
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the family is one of the core aspects of the new [e-vandalization] evangelization [What UN document did he lift the phrase “the family is one of the core aspects” from? Is the Church merely another NGO? No, no, no!]
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Bishops are faced with an eminently pastoral challenge… [i.e. how to change dogma “in practice” while claiming to adhere to a “hermeneutic of continuity”… (please refer to Vatican II…)]
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Here we go again. Warning! Modernists at work!
… and stop giving into the collection plates.
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We all have to read Francis through Marxs.
Dear ACT and all:
The Restoration of the Bride of Christ needs to be an ‘interdisciplinary’ effort, in the sense that it has to be broad, including all “men of good will” whether they are in regular of irregular status with the modernist’s occupying Rome presently. The worst case scenario we all have to guard against, and always be cognizant of, is one where we start fighting amongst ourselves. This is the strategy of the evil one and his minions. Remember folks, if the SSPX is folds, it is only a matter of time until the EC people get FFI’ed. If the SSPX stand pat, it buys time for the EC and the diocesans and other religious communities to sort themselves out. And signs that the latter two groups are starting to sort themselves out is everywhere.
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Pray for the SSPX and Bishop Fellay so that he stand firm in his Faith. He and the SSPX really needs our prayers.
St Michael Archangel, ora pro nobis.
One for the “brick by brick” category: ITC document on “sensus fidei”.
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Father Z has the story. Link here: http://wdtprs.com/blog/2014/07/fishwrap-less-than-enthusiastic-about-new-itc-document-on-sensus-fidei/
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The money line is as follows:
“[T]he writers declare: “The magisterium also judges with authority whether opinions which are present among the people of God and which may seem to be the sensus fidelium, actually correspond to the truth of the Tradition received from the Apostles. … Thus, judgement regarding the authenticity of the sensus fidelium belongs ultimately not to the faithful themselves nor to theology but to the magisterium.”
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It’s not the hippies who wrote the above. There appear to be subversives in the modernist camp. 😉
PS Check out the list of speakers for the Angelus Press 2014 Conference for Tradition. Link here:
http://sspx.org/en/news-events/news/who-will-speak-ap-conference-4489
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For those who can’t wait, here is the line up:
This year’s conference theme is “The Mass: Heart of the Church”, and we can now tell you who the speakers will be:
Bishop Bernard Tissier de Mallerais
Fr. Jurgens Wegner
Fr. Juan Carlos Iscara
Fr. Daniel Couture
Fr. Patrick Rutledge
Fr. Daniel Themann
Fr. Joseph Wood
Fr. X (diocesan priest)
John Vennari
Michael Matt
John Rao
Andrew Clarendon
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Archbishop Lefebvre, ora pro nobis and Deo gratias.
File this under “what world do these people live in?”
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BROTHERHOOD BETWEEN CHRISTIANS AND MUSLIMS: KEY WORD OF THE MESSAGE FOR THE END OF RAMADAN
http://visnews-en.blogspot.com/2014/07/brotherhood-between-christians-and.html
Vatican City, 18 July 2014 (VIS) – “Towards a genuine fraternity between Christians and Muslims” is the title of the message sent by the Pontifical Council for Interreligious Dialogue to mark the end of Ramadan (‘Id al-Fitr 1435/2014 A.D.). The document is signed by Cardinal Jean-Louis Tauran and Fr. Miguel Angel Ayuso Guixot M.C.C.J., respectively president and secretary of the dicastery.
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“Last year, the first year of his ministry, Pope Francis personally signed the Message addressed to you on the occasion of ‘Id al-Fitr. On another occasion, he also called you ‘our brothers and sisters’ (Angelus, 11 August 2013). We all can recognize the full significance of these words. In fact, Christians and Muslims are brothers and sisters in the one human family, created by the One God”.
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REALITY CHECK!!!
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Contacted by AsiaNews at the See of the Chaldean Patriarchate in Baghdad, Mar Sako bitterly said that no form of dialogue is possible with the Islamists, who keep repeating, “between us there is but the sword.”
http://www.asianews.it/news-en/Baghdad-patriarch:-as-the-time-for-dialogue-is-no-more,-Christians-flee-Mosul-31662.html
Baghdad (AsiaNews) – “The situation in Mosul is tragic,” said Mar Raphael I Louis Sako, Patriarch of the Chaldean Church, as he spoke to AsiaNews about what is happening in Mosul, Iraq’s second largest city.
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His Beatitude said that yesterday, the “militia of the so-called Islamic caliphate” issued a notice (pictured), distributed across the city, declaring, “Christians either convert to Islam or pay the [poll] tax” (the Jizya). Alternatively, he noted, they “can only leave the city,” leaving behind everything they own, which the Islamists are seizing.
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When Mosul fell to Islamist militias, at least 500 thousand people, Christians and Muslims, fled the city, creating a serious humanitarian, economic and political crisis.
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The city is now under the control of the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL, a Sunni jihadist group close to al-Qaeda), operating as the militia of the Islamic caliphate.
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It’s true. You can’t make this stuff up.
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Are the members of the “Pontifical Council for Interreligious Dialogue” getting high on illegal substances before coming up with these statements? One would almost hope so. At least that would provide some sort of explanation.
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I suggest that there next meeting should take place in Mosul where they can “dialogue” with the Islamists swords. That should be a short meeting.
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Perhaps they can begin the “dialogue” by pointing out that we are “brothers and sisters” and then see what direction that “HEADS”. Or they could quickly “CUT” to the chase and say how we both worship “the One God”. Or they could “OFF”-er to personally deliver a message of “brotherhood” from bergoglio.
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Cardinal Jean-Louis Tauran seems to think this is quite funny becaues I see him rolling around on the floor, but I’m “DEAD” serious. Oh dear….
Dear Catholic Thinker,
I am concerned you haven’t made the distinction between married continent clergy and married incontinent clergy because you accuse me of saying in your own words that I said that married clergy were an abomination vs what I really said that married incontinent clergy were an abomination. You intially quoted me correctly but then you went on to say that the Church has accepted married clergy in the past therefor you assume that continence was never required. This is where you err. Please read the links that I have given Michael Leon. hope I am not assuming wrong when I assumed that you knew that continent means refraining from the conjugal act and that incontinent means not refraining from the marital act.
Solution: Send Anastasia (see above) to speak to the conference.
…just kidding… 🙂
@S.A. Scorecard time– What’s EC? The best I could come up with was Evangelical Catholic, and that didn’t seem to fit the context. Thanx
Dear Michael Leon,
We’re fairly certain that if the Vatican were ever to answer your objections to their latest long-distance hug, you’d get the now standard party line about the “fact” that radical elements of Islam are not representative of the main body of “non-violent” Muslims, any more than a man who bombs an abortion clinic represents Pro-lifers in general.
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Of course the Church and Pro life organizations denounce the use of violence in all their teachings and literature, while the Quar’an both denounces it and promotes it (according to Pope-emeritus Benedict in Regensberg)
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And then there is the fact that they aren’t allowed to consider us siblings, because they aren’t allowed to believe we have the same Father or Mother– our Father is a Trinity and theirs has no “associations”. Our Mother is the Mother of God the 2nd person of the Trinity–same problem.
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They are potential children of God, but to reach that potential, they have to accept Jesus as their God and brother, as St. John says in the Gospel:
But to all who received him, who believed in his name, he gave power to become children of God; 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
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It seems the Vatican likes to by-pass little glitches like that.
Unfortunately for those they mislead, there is such a thing as Truth, and it’s not “relative” (bad pun-intended)
EC = Ecclesia Dei Commission
That was quite well-stated.
Slightly off topic, but …. it just occurred to me that if we were to transport Michael Voris back to the time of Vatican II that he would fully endorse and defend it because it has the backing of the pope. (While perhaps criticizing some bishops that were implementing it?)
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Even if in this thought experiment Michael Voris returned to 1962 with his current full knowledge of the consequences of VII, he would still fully endorse and defend it…. because it has the backing of the pope. (While perhaps….?).
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The test for Voris will be in Oktober during the upcoming synod on the family. Will he fully endorse and defend it because … (well you know)?
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We will get a chance to see in Oktober exactly how this experiment turns out. My prediction is yes, he will ….. fully endorse and defend it because it has the backing of the pope. (While perhaps criticizing some bishops that will implement it?)
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And Voris is not alone…. not by a long shot.
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Call it cognitive dissonance, call it diabolical disorientation, call it papalotry…. this is the same playbook that worked for the Modernists in the 1960s and even with all the changes in technology and communications since that time it is working again like a demonic charm this time around. It will take an excorcism to break this spell. Our Lady of Fatima, pray for us.
Dear S.A. thanks again. (This should be after your reply below, but there was no reply link.) 😉
Dear A Catholic Thinker,
Care to start a Papal Impeachment Petition? On second thought, nix that–they’d probably just replace him with Kasper, and in the meantime we’d make liars out of all of us posters here who say we’re not sede 🙂
Might I suggest that in keeping in line with Louie’s request to try to keep comments pertinent with the initial blog, that the clerical continence topic would now be best served on its own Forum listing if anyone would like to open one, IMHO. (See Louie’s June 30th post “Blog Comments” in archive list at right.)
Dear Michael,
We see one difference this time around, no need to call in the Protestants for advice.
In other news…. the Pope says it’s evil if Christians in Mosul defend themselves and upset dialogue.
http://www.asianews.it/news-en/Pope%3A-I-am-with-the-persecuted-Christians-of-Mosul-and-the-Middle-East-31671.html
That’s probably because the Vatican has been giving us so much practice.
“Violence is never defeated with violence” I guess no need to hold my breath awaiting the call to Crusade…
Dear Holy Father, a few questions…
You said to the Christians in Mosul during Sunday’s Angelus talk,
“I am with you…. I know….I know …. I am with you….
… May the God of peace inspire in all a genuine desire for dialogue and of reconciliation. Violence is never defeated with violence. Violence is defeated with peace “. Self defense and justified war teachings aside…..It must be such a comfort to them to know that you are with them, (from Rome), wishing for such solidarity with ISIS. .
— Did the Muslim prayer for peace on Pentecost not work? Might we suggest it was said to the Wrong God?.
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Have your advisors filled you in on the potential dialogue-partners ?:
Omar al-Shishani, -one of hundreds of Chechens who have been among the toughest jihadi fighters in Syria, emerged as the military face of the Islamic State, and the group’s Iraqi leader, Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi. say: “We will bring back the caliphate, and if God does not make it our fate to restore the caliphate, then we ask him to grant us martyrdom.” .
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Al-Shishani, — is an ethnic Chechen from the Caucasus nation of Georgia, a stronghold for militants, a fanatic of Islam, hardened from years of wars with Russia in the Caucasus region — considered one of the best fighters.
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. He led an Qaeda-inspired group called “The Army of Emigrants and Partisans,” . They entered the Syria conflict in 2013, and initially were welcomed by other rebels who soon became alienated by their brutal methods and kidnappings and killings of rivals–including by decapitation.
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Rebel factions have been fighting against the group since last year in battles that have left thousands dead. Al Qaeda’s central command ejected the extremist group from the network.
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Holy Father, are you sure they should just try to sit down and talk peacefully, to resolve this conflict?
For the past two months, al-Shishani has led an offensive in Syria’s eastern Deir el-Zour province against rival rebels, seeking to solidify his hold on a stretch of territory connected to neighboring Iraq.
In May, some Arab media organizations reported that al-Shishani was killed in the fighting. An activist in Iraq in contact with members of the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant said al-Shishani suffered wounds in his right arm and was taken into Iraq where he underwent treatment before returning to Syria.
Since then, al-Shishani has appeared multiple times in photos and videos put out by the group.
Hussein Nasser, spokesman for the Islamic Front coalition group of rebels, said Chechens are among the most feared fighters in Syria.
“A Chechen comes and has no idea about anything (in the country) and does whatever his leader tells him,” Nasser said. “Even if his emir tells him to kill a child, he would do it.”
We apologize for the length of that last post–it got away from us a bit.
Dear Indignus Famulus,
Please read the link that refutes your protestant like interpretation of this Scripture. Also the primary purpose of marriage is the procreation and education of children for God’s glory. Just as the primary purpose of the priesthood is the salvation of souls. And just as the primary purpose of baptism is to make us children of God. I would never say that the primary purpose of any of these sacraments are love. They are rooted in God’s love for us yes but their primary purpose is not love. I hope you understand what it is that I am trying to help you understand
.http://chiesa.espresso.repubblica.it/articolo/1350847?eng=y
I wonder how many current Vatican prelates are familiar with the Battle of Lepanto. Along with, well, the rest of history not viewed thru tie-dyed eyes.
“Call it cognitive dissonance, call it diabolical disorientation, call it papalotry” – it’s all these things & more.
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Mr. Voris is going to join us before the end – that would be my guess.
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Why do I say this? Mainly because he’s picked the wrong side for “personal” reasons, not because his livelihood depends on it. And, no matter how one slices it, the latter is indeed the case for the main cadre of professional Vatican spinsters (even if most of them really believe in what they’re saying too).
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Voris’ heart is in the right place. He doesn’t refuse to include the Bishop of Rome in his criticism because he’s a modernist at heart of because he doesn’t understand Catholic doctrine; it seems he just can’t get past a certain personal, emotional blockade. And, I can understand that.
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Eventually, his intellect, aided by the facts, is going to win that battle.
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That’s the way I see it. I could be wrong.
Where, oh where, is the holy anger? The zeal for truth and justice in Christ Our Lord? Where is the Faith? Obedience to God Almighty? Reparation! Reparation! Reparation!
Peace, man….
” Unlike their Sunni, Shi’ite and Kurdish neighbors, Christians have no militias to protect them. ”
http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN0FE1L320140709?irpc=932
Probably recruited, trained and supplied and organised by the CIA, and US military.
How ironic is it, that after all these discussions, we keep coming back to only one thing that can really fix any of this, and it’s exactly what Louie called this blog post:
“The Pope’s Mother IS expecting”: The Consecration of Russia.
Dear Anastasia,
We made no interpretation of Scripture, only a comment of what came to mind, and we agree with the other poster who suggested you start a forum on the topic of celibacy and related concerns, since you seem intent on discussing them, and Louie has asked for that treatment of large side-topics.
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Regarding the general purpose of the Sacraments, i.e.in every case to provide Graces for Salvation that flow directly from God’s love,Dietrich Von Hildebrand pointed that out correctly, we believe.
So there is no need for you to try to argue that he is wrong and you are right because each Sacrament also has a more specific purpose as well. The one does not preclude the other. .
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Priestly ordination, and Matrimony are each Sacraments which God uses to save numerous souls, but NOT by any means excluding the souls of those who receive them..
__ It would thus be incorrect to argue that God would put a higher value on the salvation of a parishioner, than on the soul of the priest who is his spiritual director. And if the priest’s soul were in danger of being lost, it is far less likely that he would be able to effectively fulfill his vocation to help save the parishioner’s soul. This is what gives at least an equal weight to the importance of saving his, if not a primacy, even though his vocation can easily be described as one which primarily attempts to save the souls of others.
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Similarly this seems to us, the intent of Von Hidebrand’s emphasis on the mutual salvation of the Couple in a Marriage- which helps rather than hinders their effectiveness in working towards the salvation of the children they procreate.. .If you still disagree, and wish to discuss the issue we again suggest you start a forum on this as well.
God Bless.
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You know, I have a yen for a croissant. I don’t know, but when Au Bon Pain makes them rectangular, they just don’t taste the same. It’s like, someone is reaching in, an outsider, and is corrupting the recipe in a way that is sacrilegious. I like them both ways – you know, French style with flakey dough and German style with sweet dough. I really get a kick out of how Wikipedia describes the “fanciful legends” surrounding their creation:
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“Fanciful stories of how the Kipferl — and so, ultimately, the croissant — was created are widespread and persistent culinary legends, going back to the 19th century. However, there are no contemporary sources for any of these stories, nor does an aristocratic writer, writing in 1799, mention the Kipferl in a long and extensive list of breakfast foods.
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The legends include tales that it was invented in Europe to celebrate the defeat of the Umayyad forces at the Battle of Tours by the Franks in 732, with the shape representing the Islamic crescent; that it was invented in Buda, or, according to other sources in Vienna in 1683 to celebrate the defeat of the Ottomans by Christian forces in the siege of the city, as a reference to the crescents on the Ottoman flags, when bakers staying up all night heard the tunneling operation and gave the alarm. This has led to croissants being banned by some Islamic fundamentalists.”
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Wow, who is the author that describes the origin of these recipes as “fanciful legends”? i bet his favorite bread is braided! Pope St. Pius V pray for us! Maybe Pope Francis will include croissants on the menu in his next meal with the muslims!
Oh, I don’t want to leave anyone out. Charles Martel pray for us! Jan Sobieski pray for us!
Dear A Catholic Thinker,
We share your hopes and thinking about Michael Voris’ underlying good character and what seems the diabolic nature of his current blindness.
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His “public following ” is not only being deprived of his usual insights on the dangers to souls-regarding this Pope, but due to his highly selective reporting, are actually be misled into thinking the opposite is true–that Francis is someone to generally admire, imitate, and follow.
__ He will someday have a great deal more to regret than just his error of judgment in this regard, as it greatly damages if not reverses the purpose for which he started his ministry. We should all pray for him sincerely, no matter how much his current behavior frustrates us, and for him not to despair when it finally hits him. Maybe this too, will require the Consecration of Russia..
Dear ACT. My impression is that Voris is one of those who never openly criticizes the validity of Vatican II but sidesteps the issue by saying it wasn’t properly implemented. (Please correct me if I’m wrong.) In other words he would criticize some of the bad fruits of VII but not the tree itself. Although, I know he is a traditionalist — at least for the most part.
Anyway, if he can’t come right out and say that VII is seriously flawed then he is going to probably have the same problem with the Oktober synod because they will undoubtedly employ the same sort of double-speak “pastoral” language.
I guess we could say that Voris would side with the FSSP rather than the SSPX. Although, the SSPX has been awfully quiet lately. What’s going on with that? Have they come to a secret agreement as has been recently rumored? Personally, I think they have been secretly threatened by bergoglio and so are keeping a low profile for now. At least I hope that is the explanation.
BTW. I love Michael Voris like a brother and would like nothing more than to see him come to grips with the truth about this papacy God willing. Blessed Jacinta and Francisco pray for us.
It occurred to us, looking at the headlines today, that the Russians, Moslems, and Jews are three of the largest groups the Post VII “new-church” -advocates purposely deprived of any call to conversion while ignoring Our Lady of Fatima’s requests and relying instead on diplomatic relations as a road to brotherhood, cooperation, and world peace.
— All three are currently engaged in conflicts and wars so major that the media is rotating them in the headlines along with photos of the resulting devastation from explosions of rockets, missiles and bombs with little room for the terror attacks and devastations of Christian villages and Churches going on in Afghanistan, Nigeria, and a half dozen other places on the globe..
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Can we at least get an admission from the “Consecration was done” crowd, that they were wrong? And does anyone have an idea of what constitutes annihilation of a nation, or should we just keep looking at the pictures on the news?
Another reason we should never leave God out of things? 🙂
“An evil and adulterous generation seeketh a sign: and a sign shall not be given it, but the sign of Jonas the prophet.”
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VIDEO: “Mosul (Nineveh Province): ISIS Take Sledgehammer To The Tomb of The Prophet Jonah”
http://youtu.be/S83ylw413YM
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IMO this is one of the many meanings of the “sign of Jonas” that Jesus refers to in the Gospel of Matthew.
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And now bergoglio says that the Church founded by Jesus should deny the clear teachings of Jesus and show “mercy” to this “evil and adultress generation”.
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IMO this is a sign that the synod on the family and perhaps the whole bergoglio papacy is cursed by our Lord himself and that no good will come of it.
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IMO the prince of this world is pleased and bergoglio will be rewarded with the Nobel “peace prize”.
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As Indignus says, Russia must be consecrated to the Immaculate Heart of Mary, but even that is not enough. We must repent and do penance like the city of Nineveh did when Jonas warned them of the coming destruction. And we must embrace the Cross of Jesus.
W/r/t the croissant genealogy, the defeat of the Mohammedans at Vienna also brought about the appearance and wide dissemination of coffee in Europe. It was a former emissary to the Turkish court of Polish decent, who knew what was in the stocks of left behind by the retreating forces of Merzifonlu Kara Mustafa Pasha.
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Here is the Wikipedia entry:
“The real first coffeehouse in Austria opened in Vienna in 1683 after the Battle of Vienna, by using supplies from the spoils obtained after defeating the Turks. The officer who received the coffee beans, Polish military officer of Ukrainian origin Jerzy Franciszek Kulczycki, opened the coffee house and helped popularize the custom of adding sugar and milk to the coffee.”
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As I explain to anyone who will listen, it is not cold-cuts on rye bread, but rather “coffee and croissants” that is truly the quintessential Polish breakfast.
Dear Michael Leon,
You may be on to something even bigger here, if modern prophesy is about to merge with ancient ones, and God is calling our attention to Ninevah this way for a special reason..
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Jonah spent 3 days in darkness in the Belly of a Whale as punishment for refusing to preach to Ninevah when first given that Mandate by God.
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Our Lady prophesied terrible chastisements at both Akita and Fatima, and called for the Consecration of Russia which has been ignored by the Popes who are doing the same thing Jonah was –refusing to preach repentance for sin (and conversion- Baptism) to all those to Whom Jesus has sent them.
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As you point out, the upcoming synod is expected to be a further example of this same or worse disobedience–rather than preaching repentance for sin, they are hinting at plans to ignore sin and even promote more of it by advocating sacrilegious reception of the Eucharist in the name of Divine Mercy.
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Also noteworthy, the upcoming synod is scheduled for Oct 5-19th, dates which encompass :.
Oct. 7th is the Feast of Our Lady of Victory of the Rosary (Lepanto)
Oct 13th is the 97th anniversary of the Miracle of the sun ( 85 years since Our Lady first requested the Consecration of Russia in 1929 at Tuy)
And Oct 19th they plan to beatify Paul VI.
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This may sound a bit bizarre, but perhaps we should all read up on the 3 days of darkness, prophesied by Saints and Mystics–like Blessed Elena Aiello?, who said::
‘The times are grievous. The whole world is in turmoil because it has become worse than at the time of the deluge! Everything is in suspense,
like a thread; when this thread breaks, the justice of God will fall like a thunderbolt and will complete its terrible course of purification.”
(Prophetic Vision of Sr. Elena Aiello, Foundress of The Sister Minims, December 8th, 1958 A.D.)
There are many Catholic seers said to have had these visions, including:
. ., Bl. Anna-Maria Taigi, Padre Pio, Elizabeth Canori-Mora, Rosa-Colomba Asdente, Palma d’Oria, in Italy; Father Nectou, in Belgium; St. Hildegard, in Germany; Pere Lamy, Marie Baourdi, Marie Martel, Marie-Julie Jahenny, in France. It’s all available on the internet (while it still works)
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This stuff is not for the faint of heart, but ultimately Our Lady Promised to be our refuge, if we remain devoted to her and say the rosary.
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We don’t quite know what to make of it all, but parts of it seem like good advice– to be in a state of Grace at all times, and can’t hurt to keep some extra water and a few days of supplies handy–even in case of bad weather, and the “blessed candles” are always a good thing to have in any Catholic home as well. The weirdest advice was to keep all doors and windows shut and don’t open them during the 3 days of darkeness, using the blessed candles for light, and to pray.
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We’d like to know what others here think of these prophecies, as they are made by such great Saints as Padre Pio. We had just set them aside for years, but things are looking more and more eerily like they fit the descriptions of when this all is predicted to take place, and as Michael reminded us-Jonah and -Ninevah are in the news.
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And now we got the Capuchin’s of Steubenville doing it :).
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Link here: http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2014/07/you-report-just-typical-tlm-by.html
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Money quote:
“During the conference, approximately 1,700 young people attended, and over 1,000 Sacramental Confessions were heard. It was beautiful to have the Extraordinary Form available in addition.”
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And they had the EF available in addition. Isn’t that nice. 😉
Oh my :o).
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Rochester Diocese ends practice of laymen preaching homilies.
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Father Z has the scoop:
http://wdtprs.com/blog/2014/07/bp-matano-d-rochester-ends-decades-illicit-practice-of-lay-preaching/
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Can the extraordinary Eucharistic minister’s be next on the chopping block;)
Does Bergoglio believe that Jonah ever existed? He has said that the Book of Jonah is a “parable”:
“Go and re-read the Book of Jonah! It is short, but it is a very instructive parable, especially for those of us in the Church.”
The link is here:
http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/francesco/speeches/2013/september/documents/papa-francesco_20130927_pellegrinaggio-catechisti_en.html
In Italian, he said:
“Andate a rileggere il Libro di Giona! E’ breve, ma è una parabola molto istruttiva, specialmente per noi che siamo nella Chiesa.”
For reference, he has used the Italian word “parabola” in reference to the Good Samaritan:
“Trovo una risposta nella parabola del buon samaritano, che è anche una parabola del comunicatore.”
(This Vatican Web page is stored in the same address path as the above link, except it is filed under “messages” rather than “speeches”:
messages/communications/documents/papa-francesco_20140124_messaggio-comunicazioni-sociali_it.html)
Did I miss the most recent Church decision that was reached with regard to the historicity of Jonah? I certainly believe that the casual and unqualified use of the word “parable” above lacks the religious and intellectual caution exercised by Pope Benedict XV (“fifteenth”) who wrote the following on this subject in Spiritus Paraclitus (#29):
“Whether teaching or disputing [Christ] quotes from all parts of Scripture and takes His example from it; He quotes it as an argument which must be accepted. He refers without any discrimination of sources to the stories of Jonas and the Ninivites, of the Queen of Sheba and Solomon, of Elias and Eliseus, of David and of Noe, of Lot and the Sodomites, and even of Lot’s wife.”
Oh my, part deux 😉
Is ++Brandmuller a Restorationist is disguise?
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Money quote:
“And if it were understood and taught that the priesthood is not a function of service exercised in the name of the community, but that the priest – by virtue of the sacrament received – teachers, guides, and sanctifies “in persona Christi,” all the more so would it be understood that it is precisely for this reason that he also takes on Christ’s way of life. And a priesthood understood and lived in this way would once again exercise a power of attraction over the finest of the young.”
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Full text here: http://chiesa.espresso.repubblica.it/articolo/1350847?eng=y
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A German act of contrition, maybe?
Dear Indignus Famulus,
I have been considering this for some time now. The need for clarity and right thinking of the nature and purposes of marriage and the priesthood are needed and I will consider following your kind directives and write on this topic on the other forum that Louis provides.
May God bless you
Dear Indignus. There is also a sort of “secular prophecy” regarding the Prophet Jonas and the city of Nineveh, It comes from the book/movie “The Excorcist” by William Peter Blatty . I have written about this previously so here is a link:
http://publicvigil.blogspot.com/2011/08/st-philip-apostle.html
Basically the theme of the book is that a powerful demonic force is unleashed when an ancient ruin is disturbed.
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IMO opinion this is an oblique reference to the Dead Sea Scrolls and the archaeologist character in the movie is based on Malachi Martin. The “discovery” of the Dead Sea Scrolls (which I suspect to be essentially a hoax) is one of the major events that led to Vatican II. I say this because this “discovery” justified the “historical re-interpretation” of the Bible which is one of the driving forces that eventually led to VII.
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So if you follow what I’m saying the “discovery” of the Dead Sea Scrolls unleashed a powerful demonic force which eventually led to Vatican II. I don’t know if the author actually intended this interpretation, but that is what I got out of it.
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“Humbly” quoting myself from 2011:
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The movie “the Exorcist” (the original 1973 one) begins with a scene where a talisman is unearthed in an archeological dig. This faithfully follows the story in the book. It’s never made clear in the movie that this unleashes an evil spirit which then demonizes the young girl who is the subject of the movie.
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The [opening] scene takes place in Nineveh, which was once the capital of the ancient Assyrian empire. The Bible tells us that the prophet Jonah was sent by God to warn the people of Nineveh of a coming judgement. Jonah refused. That’s how sinful the city was that a prophet would dare refuse a direct command from God. In fact Nineveh was a center for the worship of the goddess Ishtar, which involved sacred prostitution. There was even a god named Sin that was the mythological father of Ishtar and who was depicted as riding a winged bull.
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Dear Indignus familius,
That’s O.K I will take your comment as a compliment. I actually dream of storming the Nod to Sin oops I meant Synod on the family.
Please see our post #4 under Louie’s next blog post Tony Palmer. Our research discovered a CERTAIN conspiracy IN PLAIN SIGHT!
We’re not familiar with his work, but read that the author petitioned the Vatican to have Georgetown U., his alma mater, forbidden to call itself a Catholic University, based on the regs. in place at the time.
–Not recruiting Catholic teachers or students,…supporting abortion via speakers and programs, which the college claimed were all part of its openness to diversity and freedom of expression…etc blah blah blah
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We looked a bit farther into his background–devoted Catholic mother, scholarship to college (merit) and phenomenal success as a writer.
We’ll get back to you more on this when we have more time to research your ideas, right now, we’re more focused on the Tony Palmer connections.
Dear Anastasia,
It was actually meant as a teasing compliment. You can go on being tenacious, even if we think you’re wrong about something, and it annoys us, because tenacity is a virtue when it is applied correctly in the fight against falsehood, and we wouldn’t want to lose a good fighter in this battle…
Dear Michael Leon,
Loved your “side-splitting” comments above. 🙂