InfoVaticana has published yet another interview with Cardinal Raymond Burke; this one covering a wide variety of topics.
You can read it there in its fullness. Here, I will touch only on his comments concerning the dubia.
As I pointed out several weeks ago, Cardinal Burke’s tone has become progressively softer since his November 2016 interview with Edward Pentin of National Catholic Register when said:
There is, in the Tradition of the Church, the practice of correction of the Roman Pontiff. It is something that is clearly quite rare. But if there is no response to these questions [dubia], then I would say that it would be a question of taking a formal act of correction of a serious error.
NB: Burke promised a formal act of correction of the Roman Pontiff due to his serious error.
In January, however, he spoke only of correcting certain truths that only seem to be called into question.
In March, Cardinal Burke could only bring himself to speak of correcting the “situation.”
In his interview with InfoVaticana, Cardinal Burke was asked, Do you think there will be a formal public correction to Pope Francis?
To which he replied:
That it is not clear yet. Normally speaking, before taking that step, the Cardinals would approach once again the Holy Father personally to say: ‘Holy Father, the matter is so grave that we must correct it, and I trust that the Holy Father will respond at that moment.’
First, let’s be clear; there is nothing “normal” about this situation.
Secondly, lest anyone make too much of the word “public,” the “formal act of correction” that Burke first mentioned was always understood to be public since a private correction would do nothing to resolve the crisis concerning the errors in Amoris Laetitia.
Finally, while some will pin their hopes for a correction on the fact that Cardinal Burke didn’t flatly say, “No,” it certainly looks like we may be heading in that direction.
Recall that Cardinal Brandmüller (another of the Dubia Brothers) said that the act of correction would first take place in camera caritatis; i.e., privately, “in the room of charity,” as opposed to publicly.
Burke is simply reiterating this in his InfoVaticana interview; even going so far as to express confidence (genuine or not) that “the Holy Father will respond at that moment;” with the implication being that Francis will somehow deign to correct his own errors.
Why anyone in their right mind would believe such a thing is beyond me, but there’s a bigger problem; Francis apparently has no interest in inviting the Dubia Brothers into his camera.
Asked about his relationship with Francis, Burke said that he hasn’t spoken with Francis since they met in November when the topic of conversation (at least the publicly revealed part) concerned the Order of Malta.
“I don’t know what he is thinking … and he has not granted me an audience,” he said.
The interviewer, to his credit, asked for clarification, and Burke confirmed that he has in fact asked for an audience, but his request has thus far been denied.
It’s not clear whether Burke’s request was for a one-on-one audience, or on behalf of all four of the Dubia Brothers, but he did say that the other three cardinals, to his knowledge, haven’t received any sort of answer from Francis either.
It is interesting, is it not, that Francis had room in his busy schedule last week to entertain a quartet of Muslim imams, but he just can’t seem to find time for his cardinals – the rigid ones anyway.
So, the “pope” who refuses to answer five simple “Catholicism 101” questions in the midst of widespread doctrinal confusion and sacrilege isn’t going to invite the authors of said questions for a sit-down so they can put him on the spot…
If you find this surprising, you just might believe what Cardinal Burke had to say about Benedict the Abdicator:
“I have never spoken with him about the dubia.”
Riiiight.
Asked about a timeline for a correction, Cardinal Burke said:
I really cannot speak about that because it is a matter which has to be approached with great respect and delicacy. And I do not want to suggest a date that would in any way affect negatively the handling of the matter or would show disrespect to anyone involved.
Might I remind the Cardinal that the “matter” at hand is an “Apostolic Exhortation” that, among other atrocities, accuses God of asking for adultery and fornication?
I’d say that the days of “delicacy” passed a long time ago.
Lastly, there is a tendency on the part of the neo-conservative kind to comfort themselves with the lie that the Church has been down this road before.
Asked about historical precedents for the formal correction of a pope, Burke replied:
I think, for example, of Pope John XXII who was teaching wrongly about the Beatific Vision. Certain bishops and theologians pointed this out to him. At first he resisted their correction, but then, before he died, he did retract what he had said that was in error.
This is factually incorrect. An excerpt from the 1914 Catholic Encyclopedia should suffice to clarify the matter:
Before his elevation to the Holy See, he [John XXII] had written a work on this question [concerning the Beatific Vision], in which he stated that the souls of the blessed departed do not see God until after the Last Judgment. After becoming pope, he advanced the same teaching in his sermons. In this he met with strong opposition…
The papacy of John XXII took place in the early 1300’s; a time when relatively few persons were privy to the sermons of the pope.
Francis, by contrast, disseminates his errors globally; in the case of Amoris Laetitia, on papal letterhead, seal and all.
Pope John wrote to King Philip IV on the matter (November, 1333), and emphasized the fact that, as long as the Holy See had not given a decision, the theologians enjoyed perfect freedom in this matter. (ibid.)
NB: At the time of the controversy, there was no dogmatic definition on the topic.
With respect to the errors in Amoris Laetitia, the very words of Our Lord, as well as those of the Council of Trent, are involved.
After having been petitioned to confirm the traditional understanding in the matter, Pope John XXII did not “resist” as Cardinal Burke maintained; rather, he made it clear that he was only stating his personal opinion, and even appointed a commission of theologians to study the Church Fathers in order to settle the matter faithfully.
I dare say there is no need for me to point out just how unlike the example of Pope John XXII is from that of the “humble” Francis.
The simple truth is that there has never been a pope in the history of the Church who has attacked dogmatic teaching as formally and as frequently as Francis has.
How long is this nonsense going to continue?
One week from today, the dubia will have gone “officially” unanswered for seven months!
Unofficially, however, it has been answered in no uncertain terms; most notably in the praise that Francis has heaped upon bishops who have issued so-called “pastoral guidelines” that rest squarely on the heresies set forth in his Love Letter to Satan, Amoris Laetitia.
Enough with these pointless interviews.
Enough citations of fake historic precedents.
Enough misrepresenting weakness as a function of “great respect.”
It’s time for Cardinal Burke et al. to step up to the plate lest time runs out and they find themselves having to answer to Christ for their inaction.
I disagree, the situation is perfectly normal for the Novus Ordo church. Chaos, confusion, ambiguity, and timid shepards afraid to speak. Sounds like the whole post v2 church.
Absolutely!
Cardinal Burke & his supporters have reneged on their promise, i.e. to make a formal correction to PF after Christmas. They made a public statement that this would indeed have to occur in light of the serious errors promulgated in AL, but have buckled.
Did Cardinal Burke really believe that PF was benignly going to grant him a private audience for the purpose of mildly rebuking him for his errors & requesting them to be amended? PF’s clear intent is to change the praxis of the teachings of Christ which the CC upheld until VII, which in reality would change Catholic Doctrine. It is extremely doubtful that he & most members of the hierarchy believe in God – he has already said there is no Catholic God & Hell doesn’t exist as it would go against the Gospel, so why is he allowed to remain on the Seat of Peter even though he won’t ever speak authoritatively from it? His countless heresies & blasphemies to date are more than enough to call him what he is but Cardinal Müller seems to have put a clamp on that move. However, this does not exonerate the four Cardinals & their silent supporters. Cardinal Burke said it wasn’t about numbers but about Truth & that he was” more concerned about Last Judgement”. Of course, most of us took him at his word which now is meaningless. Not only has he & his supporters let us down, they more importantly have let Our Lord down.
Ana, if Bergolio is the Pope, there is no earthly power other than violence that can remove him from the See of Peter. It just doesnt work that way. It doesnt matter if its four cardinals or eight or 128. The Pope is judged by no one. Many people have harmed the faithful by creating this false notion that there is some sort of mechanism to “correct” or depose a Pope. There isnt.
I have always queried his ‘right’ to that title due to the Sankt Gallen Mafia electioneering & the ignoring of JPII’s rules for papal elections. With PB in the background giving us two living ‘popes’ it doesn’t gel that he is a properly elected pontiff. PF himself said we should go by our conscience, so I am.
Cardinal Burke must know this to be true but is being prevented from disclosing it. Why would he firmly state last November that there would be a formal correction after Christmas, especially if that formal correction had to be made face to face? Schism is not the reason as PF & coterie are IMO have separated themselves from the CC so it is they that are schismatic.
As the posters made a definite dent in PF’s ego maybe these should be replicated around the world. The laity could organise this (they can’t put us all in prison) & maybe with a good outcome.
Every theologian who discussed the hypothesis of a pope falling into heresy said he can be warned.
He cannot be deposed though. Unless he’s a blatant moron he’s been hearing the “warnings” for four years. He doesnt care…and honestly, why would he care as he is of the Devil? We’re going to live our lives, drop dead, and be judged. This guy bergoglio isnt worth the effort of getting upset. Know your Faith and do your best to spread it..,..none of us will be able to defeat Satan here on earth. Most people just go to hell as St Leonard of Port Maurice told us back in the 1700’s.
As I have said numerous times in the past, these cardinals will not put their posh lifestyles and church pensions in jeopardy, nor do they want any responsibility for causing a major schism (not that it already exists, mind you). For Burke and his supporting cardinals, they simply cannot see how the Novus Ordo, post-conciliar church cannot possibly exist with the pre-Vatican II Church. These prelates need a backbone. For the love of God!
Until one realizes that the Novus Ordo religion, instituted in Vatican II, invented by men who either abandoned the True Faith or never believed it, is evolutionary by nature. Since it is a false religion, inspired by Satan, centered on man, it must constantly change as man, unhinged from God and therefore reality and Truth, can never satisfy his passions nor his desire to be his own god.
As a member of this new institution, Burke has to know that nothing of the “old” ways can remain if they interfere with the “evolution” of man or man’s ever-changing new (old) ideas of how to glorify himself. (There is nothing new under the sun.) To my knowledge, correct me if I am wrong, he has never called for a dubia against the doctrines and practices established in Vatican II that were condemned by the Church in the past, so it is a mystery as to why he has spoken out against the latest attack on what little of the True Faith remains in the tenets of the new religion and yet seems reluctant to go beyond anything that might jeopardize his membership in the new order church.
Archbishop Lefebvre, Spiritual Journey, page 13:
“It is, therefore, a strict duty for every priest wanting to remain Catholic to separate
himself from this Conciliar Church for as long as it does not rediscover the tradition of
the Church and of the Catholic Faith.”
Conservative Catholics have always been objectively allied with the enemies of the Church and they are always polite and cautious and respectful etc etc while the modernists destroy everything.
ABS used to be a conservative (He got better) but now he is a myrmidon of Tradition but there are lessons to be learned about how to lose a christian community (presbies aint a church)
http://voxday.blogspot.com/2017/04/mailvox-convergence-and-presbyterian.html
All interviews are pointless when the root of the problem is never addressed.
When the Progressives (clerical and lay revolutionaries) gained total power, which, unfortunately began when Pope Pius XII gutted Holy Week liturgy to appease these miscreants, starting the process of destroying the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, in the Second Vatican Council, they had already gained enough soldiers to intensify their plan of assisting in the implementation of the Talmudic Jewish/Masonry one world domination by them.
Reflect on this series of short articles (49 so far) on how the first attack against Christ and His Church began in earnest when Pope Pius XII gave them their first victory by gutting the Holy Week liturgy.
http://traditioninaction.org/HotTopics/f000TradIssuesIndex.html#trad
Bishop Tissier de Mallerais, SSPX:
“The Catholic Church is the society of the baptised who want to save their souls in professing the Catholic faith, in practising the same Catholic worship and in following the same pastors, successors of the Apostles.
The conciliar church is the society of the baptised who follow the directives of the current Popes and bishops, in espousing more or less consciously the intention to bring about the unity of the human race, and in practise accepting the decisions of the Council, following the new liturgy and submitting to the new Code of Canon law.”
Bishop Tissier de Mallerais:
“(…) What becomes of the Catholic Church? Archbishop Lefebvre responds that it is in the measure that, according to the degree which the authorities and the baptised adhere to this new kind of church, that constitutes a new church, characterised by its worldly, humanist, naturalist, socialist ecumenical and one-world goals, in such a way that this new church conceives itself as being more vast and universal than the Catholic Church. We must add the distinction between an exclusive adhesion of these sectarian leaders with these profaning goals, and the seeking of a compromise between these goals and the Catholic goals on the other hand, a compromise which was well expressed by the conciliar text Lumen Gentium (section 1); “The Church is, in Christ, a sort of sacrament, that is to say at one and the same time the sign and the means of an intimate union with God and the unity of the human race.” This ambivalence complicates in a singular manner the problem of the distinction between these two churches. The text of Archbishop Lefebvre has to be understood with precision; it is in the measure which the conciliars adhere exclusively to these profaning goals outlined, that they leave the Catholic Church. And of this measure we are not the judges(…)”
Burke is determined to treat the Pope with “respect and delicacy,” while the Pope uses a Porta-Potty in front of a cheering crowd.
I would be the first one to say I know little about these things. But I believe Bellarmine said differently.
And if the Cardinals issue a formal correction, after issuing a private one, there is a kind of precedent where the Cardinals can call an “imperfect council”. Now, I am not so foolish as to imagine four Cardinals could elect a new pope and get away with it, but, these Cardinals can in fact do something.
I certainly hope Cardinal Burke does not delay issuing a formal correction due to the fact that PF won’t give him a private audience so that he can issue a private one. That would probably exasperate many unnecessarily.
If not now, why not? I too, would fear failing to do my duty and taking a chance one would lose that opportunity in this world.
I must say, I do not personally believe a formal correction of any kind is coming. Just sayin.
Cardinal Burke always sounds like he has ingested 10 milligrams of Valium before he gives an interview–almost woozy. Or perhaps he has iron-poor tired blood and needs Geritol.
Bellarmine was only offering an opinion. Even if Burke issued a dozen “formal correction,” then what? There simply is no formal mechanism to deal with this situation. Catholics should start doing their research and open their minds to the possibility that Francis is not the Pope.
He needs a spine.
The great theologians examined the issue of a hypothetical heretical pope. I don’t know of any who contemplated the vast majority of the hierarchy falling jnto heresy as well. We are i the Great Apostasy.
We’re beyond human solutions. This one is gonna take the Hand of Almighty God directly to fix.
I SEE HIS BLOOD UPON THE ROSE
I see his blood upon the rose
And in the stars the glory of his eyes,
His body gleams amid eternal snows,
His tears fall from the skies.
I see his face in every flower;
The thunder and the singing of the birds
Are but his voice—and carven by his power
Rocks are his written words.
All pathways by his feet are worn,
His strong heart stirs the ever-beating sea,
His crown of thorns is twined with every thorn,
His cross is every tree.
Joseph Mary Plunkett
It is a documented fact that the R&R camp as well as the NO apologists need to rewrite history to justify the mess they have created by refusing to consider sedevacantism and to prop up the false V2 anti-church. Whether its Liberius, Honorius, or John XXII, they rely on protestant or Gallican sources to besmirch Catholic Popes. Simply consult the pre-V2 Catholic Encyclopedia and you get the Catholic, and therefore true, version of history.
Yes, I am tired of “interviews” and meetings and talks. All they ever do is “dialogue.” This excerpt from The Real Story of AA – 1025 about sums it up: “Religion must be destroyed by dialectics. [Dialectic: The art or practice of examining statements logically as by question and answer.] Our religion has been destroyed through dialogue and it’s time for the hierarchy to stop all the nonsensical talking and act like true defenders of the One, Holy, Catholic, Apostolic Faith!
A Holy Good Friday morning linda8264,
From a deeply sorrowful understanding, it is that same “hierarchy” of which you speak, that has led us to this place which we indeed now find ourselves in. A debauched, diminished, servile, and effeminized, hierarchy. They chose Bergoglio of their own free will assent, at least only as we can know. They are the “Novus Ordo” hierarchy. According to the “Constitutio de Sede Apostolica Vacante”, promulgated by Pope Pius XII (Eugenio Pacelli), on 8-12-45, paragraph 99, the Roman Pontiff may not resign. It would follow then that the “resignation” of BXVI is res nullius and he remains the Pontiff. Nowhere have we been told that Pope Ratzinger, BXVI, loosed the Constitution of Pius XII, mandating that no Pontiff can resign. One would think that if he were to do so, that it would have to be a public loosing, such that public scandal would be avoided. So here we are in the midst of the “Great Apostasy”, whereby the lie has all but become the Truth of Holy Mother Church. The lie is so ever tightly juxtaposed to the truth, inverted though as it is, that it has become virtually indistinguishable from the lie and with certitude, only with the reception of the intellective lights of grace, can the lie now be discerned from the Truth. Only Lucifer could accomplish such a feat, with the willful participation of his human minions. We await the person of the anti-Christ to reveal himself. In caritas.
I attended St Benedict’s Prep (NJ) back in the mid 80’s. One of my teachers told us that common sense is very uncommon. That has always stayed with me.
HAHAHAHAHAHAH….You just dated yourself mate. I thought I’d be the only one around here who’d remember that snake oil.
Forget the hopefulness, none of these tossers are batting with a full wicket. Remember the words of +Williamson: “This is the Church of nice”. They’re nothing but a lot of cheese-eating surrender monkeys. The “Dubia Brothers” are a joke so don’t expect anything from these sellouts. So move on.
Yes In Caritas, I agree wholeheartedly! I am familiar with the times in which we live but sometimes get fooled into believing that maybe, just maybe, all of our prayers and sufferings are penetrating through the façade for some to see the light of truth. I have to admit that I was quite hopeful that maybe some of our poor leaders for whom we have been doing penance and praying might just be beginning to wake up and was hopeful that the dubia might have been a spark of light beginning to glow in some. But just as usual, as I have been deluded by them all throughout my whole N.O. life (until a few short years ago when the Lord answered my questions and prayers for clarity and I found the True Church in it’s Sacred Tradition) I am again saddened by the reality that it is all smoke and mirrors and nothing more than empty “dialect.” May our Lord Bless you with His Peace this Easter Season!
I have moved on and have no regrets. Can’t remember the last NO I wasted my time attending. Even the indult TLM is lame. Thank God for the SSPX
Arthur McGowan – Please explain the Port-a Potty reference?
Gwaredd Thomas – A news flash from Down Under “The Doobie Bros are playing with Santana in concert” in New Zealand this month. Carlos’s band is headline act. Memorable tracks. Favourite is “Waiting” – thats what we all seem to be doing on the 4 Troubadour Cardinals. There must be more that can be done.
So may I suggest this Column actively send a questionnaire, which includes the 5 Dubia, plus ticket holders for the Road Trip into St Athanasius Desert “traditional community” Train.
Free seats on that train, will be offered to all 128 Cardinals redeemable at the Platform.
See who turns up with their answers in hand. Actions speak louder than words.
All of the lambs need board that Ark Train – armed with valid sacraments, Brown Scapulars, Miraculous Medals and the little ones and our Rosary Beads- recall Japan had no priests for hundreds of years – Akita the Sign…
We need work the Rosaries to draw the faithful, I hope there are more seats available than 8 Noah had on his ark, lest few be saved.
The animals will fend for themselves in the Darwinian Zoo tended by Pan and his NO minions, the commonsencial will depart to the mountains, jackets or not. Its going to be a high temperature ride, it seems if the Nutter from Korea and Chump the Wall builder, drop their bundles.
Just a thought…if the Station Master collects Eight Cardinals from the total, it will be worth the trip
Lot on the plains of Sodom, managed to gather 8 persons from the City and – lost 1 namely his wife to the Salt. 7 Survived – there is the perfect number again. No looking back.
Our Lady of Good Success – ora pro nobis
“Pope Pius XII gutted Holy Week liturgy to appease these miscreants, starting the process of destroying the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, in the Second Vatican Council” I think he might have compromised the dogma of “Outside Church No Salvation” by expanding the Baptism by desire beyond those who already have the faith and desired the Baptism in the letter from the Holy Office to the Boston Bishop.
Tom A I thought you are for Sedevacantism and against SSPX?
I am a sede, but I thank God that the SSPX preserved the priesthood. If you notice who sedes are, they mostly come from SSPX. I hope they do not reconcile with modernist Rome.
I can understand Louie’s take on Cardinal Burke’s March 2017 interview and earlier interviews. It would appear from the words attributed to Cardinal Burke that the resolution needed to see the Dubia process through to finality, may be weakening. If the resolution to see this process through to the end has weakened, then Cardinal Burke has made a monumental rod for his own back.
On the one hand he has alienated the Pope and the Curia by issuing the dubia, and on the other hand he runs the serious of losing the trust of many sincere Catholics who recognise AL for what it is, by not completing the dubia process.
He is in an invidious position then.
It’s easy for all of us here to sit on the sidelines and carp about what should and what should not be done regarding the Church.. In that context, Cardinal Burke did far more than anyone here has done in confronting the problem. For that he deserves our gratitude. However he really does need, for himself primarily and for the good of the church, to confront this pope head on. That confrontation takes real guts and real resolve. It takes a special person to undetake this. No one here has the calibre, or resolve, to do so.
I’m not here to condemn Cardinal Burke. I recognise a good man who was prepared to try, unlike all of the people here including myself I should add.
I pray that if Cardinal Burke does not possess the resolve necessary, that he may be blessed by God with the resolution required to do what is needed to complete the dubia process. If not Cardinal Burke, let one of the other dubia signatories come forward and confront this pope directly and force him to account publicly.
I have been intrigued about all this dubia talk. I ask again as I have asked before. If Bergolio responds or doesnt, so what’s next? I think Siscoe & Salza have done a great disservice putting forth the idea of a process of correction etc. There simply is no process regardless of what 16th Century theologians posited.
As I understand it, if Pope Francis doesn’t iterate church teaching as asked in the dubia, then there is the opportunity to formally correct the Pope with regard to church teaching. If a formal corrections need to be used to the Pope than we have an heretical pope who can therefore be deposed. that’s my understanfing.