While I’m reasonably certain that most readers of this space remember the big dust-up that ensued when Pope Francis said in his interview with the atheist Eugenio Scalfari, “Proselytism is solemn nonsense, it makes no sense,” please allow me to offer a painful recap.
Traditionalists (otherwise known as Catholics) immediately bristled at these words of the pope, seeing in them a rejection of the mission that Christ gave to his Church.
So-called “conservative” Catholic media types, by contrast, leapt into damage control mode.
Their first response was to call into question the accuracy of the text, but Fr. Federico Lombardi stole their thunder by confirming that the text accurately captured the “sense” of the pope’s words, saying that if Pope Francis felt that his thoughts had been “gravely misrepresented” he would have said so.
Further castrating their claims of an accuracy problem was the inconvenient fact that the text was published on the Vatican website.
From there, the wannabe Swiss Guards sought to interpret what the pope said in a Catholic light.
They cited papal tradition dating all the way back to 1995, quoting John Paul the Great Ecumenist who uttered a phrase that seemed to redefine “proselytism” as a matter of “forced conversions.” Why? You’d have to ask him to be certain, but that’s what modernists do; redefine words.
Jimmy Akin, Director of Operations for Pontifical Excuse Making at Catholic Answers weighed in:
Pope Francis recently raised eyebrows by saying, in an interview, that “proselytism is solemn nonsense, it makes no sense.” This could sound strange since, historically, the word “proselyte” has simply meant a convert, and proselytism has simply meant making converts. Yet the pope was not dismissing the idea of making converts. In fact, evangelization is high on his priority list.
We’ll revisit this claim in a moment, but missing from most of the commentary on the part of the pope’s defenders was any semblance of context.
In the interview, Scalfari said to the pope, “My friends think you want me to convert,” to which the Vicar of Christ replied, “Proselytism is solemn nonsense; it makes no sense.”
Imagine, the pope wanting an atheist to convert!
In any event, nine months have since passed, more than enough time for subsequent events to shed additional light on the matter.
For instance, the interview has since been removed from the Vatican website.
Aha! Obviously, the text was erroneous, one expects the charter members of the FFC (Francis Fan Club) to exclaim.
Which is precisely why Fr. Lombardi was at pains to stress that it was removed by order of the Vatican Secretary of State: I mean, we wouldn’t want anyone to get the impression that the pope’s words were impossible to square with Catholic doctrine, now would we?
More to the point would be the countless words that have since been spoken by the pope in various other venues, including that 50,000 word tome that Cardinal Burke still hasn’t quite figured out in his mind exactly how to describe, Evangelii Gaudium.
Upon review of the pope’s words and deeds since the infamous quote in question was entered into the public record, any sane person would have to conclude that Mr. Akin deserves an A for effort, but an F for content, as one is hard pressed to produce even one single, solitary shred of compelling evidence in support of the claim that making converts occupies any place on any papal to-do list, much less the pope’s list of priorities.
To be very clear: I’m not being facetious.
Not only is there no evidence whatsoever that Pope Francis finds it necessary to encourage non-Catholics to “repent, and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins,” there is copious amounts of evidence to the contrary.
The sad truth that comes to the fore in all of this is nothing new.
Pope Francis isn’t the revolutionary pope of our time; he’s simply one in a line of revolutionary popes who have abandoned the mission of the Church as Christ gave it in favor of that conciliar invention known as the “New Pentecost,” wherein our churchmen engage in religious diplomacy with no intention whatsoever of making converts.
The pope says he is not interested in converting? Isn’t that strange since that is what Christ sent the Apostles to do? That has always been the mission of the Church from that time forward.
Hildegard of Bingen in one of her visions:
“But those who are not signed in faith, because they did not believe in God, will tarry in the North, the region of perdition, with the Devil’s band, and not come to this judgment [Last Judgment]. But they will see it all in obscurity and await its end, groaning deeply within themselves because they persevered in unbelief and did not know the true God. Thus [without God or baptism] they continued under the curse of Adam’s fall, with its penalty of damnation. And therefore they are already judged..”
I’d say that was a dang good reason to try and convert.
Pope Francis reflects upon the fruits of the post-Conciliar age:
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“Now is a good time in the life of the Church: the last 50 or 60 years have been a good time – for I remember when as a child one would hear in Catholic families, in my family, ‘No, we cannot go to their house, because they are not married in the Church!’. It was as an exclusion. No, you could not go! Neither could we go to the houses of socialists or atheists. Now, thank God, people do not says such things, right? Such an attitude was a defense of the faith, but it was one of walls: the Lord made bridges. First: Paul has this attitude, because it was the attitude of Jesus. Second: Paul is aware that he must evangelize, not proselytize.”
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St. Paul instructs the Corinthians regarding how they are to treat Christians who continue in their evil ways:
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“I wrote to you in an epistle, not to keep company with fornicators. I mean not with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or the extortioners, or the servers of idols; otherwise you must needs go out of this world. But now I have written to you, not to keep company, if any man that is named a brother, be a fornicator, or covetous, or a server of idols, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner: with such a one, not so much as to eat. For what have I to do to judge them that are without? Do not you judge them that are within? For them that are without, God will judge. Put away the evil one from among yourselves.” (1 Corinthians 5:9-13)
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Could the juxtaposition be any clearer? We must necessarily converse with the heathen, i.e “those who are without”. How else are we to evangelize? But of “the brethren”, of those who claim to follow Christ and yet remain obstinate in their sins? We are to shun them entirely, even “to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.” (1 Corinthians 5:5) This is the clear teaching of St. Paul, and this has always been the teaching of the Popes. As Pope St. Agatho remarked: “If anyone prays with heretics, he is a heretic.”
FYI, the Scalfari interview is still on the La Repubblica Web site.
As Fr. Hesse, may God rest his soul, said re: dialogue –“I don’t know what they wanted to talk about, conversion was never the issue.”
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With regard to what you state in the last paragraph, Mr. V., this reality is something so poisonous that the Catholic sensibility alone finds it difficult to swallow whole, yet the time of false hope and dare I say, denial is past, & was never an option-no matter what any neocath deceiver wrote. This poison, even when watered down with the passage of time and wishful thinking, actually is rendered more potent.
Mr. V., what I like about what you write most is that , even though you know much of what you address is going to be heartwrenchingly painful, {not to mention mind -boggling,} for your reader, you nevertheless give it to us straight. This is what a Catholic man does. Again, I thank you for it
Bergoglio is solemn nonsense. He makes no sense!
What’s to be said about this emerging ecumenism? It seems that the Lord’s call, “That all may be one” is turning in that all may be none. With each attempt at unity, the nature of the truth seems to be transformed. This dissonance we constantly hear, almost daily, leaves us waiting on the next statement to correct that seeming misunderstanding. We have modulated how many times over these decades to a distinct key from where we began. This coming synod will be the event to show us where we really stand at this point. I think the time has come to pull the trigger of VII on orthodoxy. Everything is seemingly in place now to begin the final act to these 50 years of preparation.
Call it what they will, Proselytism, Evangelization, or spreading the Good news, the world they were mandated by Jesus Christ to teach the Faith to and Baptize isn’t getting the message from the post VII Popes..
—Just before Pope Benedict XVI visited Israel, Rabbi Shear Yashuv Cohen, who addressed the Synod of Bishops wrote:
“In the Second Vatican Council and the Nostra Aetate document, it was made clear that no efforts would be made by the Catholic Church to convert Jews. Rather, the Jewish people should continue the faith of its forefathers as expressed in the Bible and rabbinic literature. The Jewish people remain a people of God’s covenant, a people chosen by God to give the world the Bible. Put simply, the Catholic Church accepted the theological principle that Jews need not change their religion to merit redemption. .”
—-In the interview with Pope Francis Louie cited above, the question was asked, “Your Holiness, is there is a single vision of the Good? And who decides what it is?” The Pope replied: “Each of us has a vision of good and of evil. We have to encourage people to move towards what they think is Good.”….. and a bit later he said: Everyone …must choose to follow the good and fight evil as he conceives them. ( What every terrorist is doing?) That would be enough to make the world a better place.”
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And finally he said, …” the purpose of our mission: to identify the material and immaterial needs of the people and try to meet them as we can.
—We’ve always thought the mission was to tell people that Jesus Christ is the only Name by which all men are saved, and He taught that we need to be Baptized and keep God’s Commandments and to eat His Flesh and drink His blood in order to have eternal life in us. To convert them. .
—God give us the Grace to pray for them all at least as hard as we would want to throw something in frustration, and to persevere till Mary’s Heart Triumphs alongside the Sacred Heart of Jesus.
Dear Matthew,
Thank you for composing this and finding the Scriptures which show the truth so perfectly. We’re still trying to get over this quote of Francis, and have been, since we first read it.
God give us all strength.
By now it is painfully obvious to us that the post conciliar Church has “abandoned the mission of the Church as Christ gave it”. What really saddens me is that Bergoglio is intent on making the situation worse.
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“And I will leave me seven thousand men in Israel, whose knees have not been bowed before Baal, and every mouth that hath not worshipped him kissing the hands.”
1 Kings 19:18
http://www.drbo.org/x/d?b=drb&bk=11&ch=19&l=18#x
Well, we ARE reminded by St. Peter that in the last days scoffers would come, who would think there will be no reckoning, not knowing that God is patient only so that more souls will have their eyes opened and come to repentance.
— it feels like the “handwriting is already on the wall, but that means we really are getting closer to the time of peace Our Lady promised.
— Can anyone imagine it? —Russia converted, her errors reversed– a Holy Father who unites everyone in love for the Lord and His Church? A completely restored Liturgy–Lines for Confession and enough priests to keep them short. Communion rails back worldwide and Churches being restored to their former glory..
— A High Altar with no table to move to get to it. The Tabernacle where it should be. Respect and reverence and modesty and good companions and solid teaching everywhere, and a new society as a result. Clean music and entertainment and laughter and joy and charity and peace. How can this be after what we are living in now?
It seems impossible, but how could there be a time of peace without it?
Let us continue to pray and make sacrifices, as Our Lady has asked.
If we can just get through this, without wavering and keep praying for those who have lost Faith or never had it, God must have something truly amazing in mind, and it can’t be long now. Our Lady said it would be “late” It is definitely that.
And speaking of non-conversions, there is the whole “ecumenical” part of VII which says we must not convert protestants to the True Catholic faith.
And in keeping with that phiolosophy Bergoglio recently met with a group of televangelists at the Vatican. And the result is another papal first — the first papal high-five. I kid you not:
http://www.religionnews.com/2014/07/09/pope-francis-meets-u-s-televangelist-first-ever-papal-high-five-follows/
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” The gesture came during a three-hour meeting of Pope Francis and Texas televangelists Kenneth Copeland and James Robison, just weeks after the pontiff met with televangelist Joel Osteen and other religious leaders. At the June 24 meeting, Robison said he was so moved by Pope Francis’ message of the gospel that he asked the translator to ask Francis for a high-five. The pope obliged, raised his arm and the two men smacked hands. ”
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There is even a photo of the historical occasion because wherever the humble Bergoglio goes there is always a swarm of humble photographers to humbly immortalize his every photo-op moment. I watched one video of the humble Bergoglio and there was an incessant background noise of camera shutters and the video had a stroboscopic effect from the multitude of camera flashes. It was as if he were a rock star…. a very humble rock star. The humblest of all the world’s celebrities…. well it’s not his fault that the world loves him so much. It is not as if he seeks the publicity and attention…. right?
It’s painful to have to admit it, but Louie is right! And this statement is but one scandal in an endless, toxic river of scandal coming from his mouth!
Our Lord speaks to His disciples:
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“Do you think that I have come to bring peace to the earth? No, I tell you, but rather division! From now on five in one household will be divided, three against two and two against three; they will be divided: father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against her daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law.” (Luke 12:51-53)
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Pope Francis speaks to the Pentacostals and Charismatics:
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“Where does division come from? The devil! Division comes from the devil. Flee from internal struggles, please!”
Great quote: “groaning deeply within themselves because they persevered in unbelief and did not know the true God.” This is the crux of it, and ‘who am i to judge’, just doesn’t cut it, especially from a papal claimant who’s sole reason for being is to alert those ‘groaning deeply within themselves’, to wake up out of their unbelief.
“They cited papal tradition dating all the way back to 1995″ – oh the venerable offfise that has stood the test of time! ‘This could sound strange since, historically, the word “proselyte” has simply meant a convert,” – Conversion as ‘solemn nonesense’. This was, for the most, my experience of trying to convert; trying against the wishes of priests and catechists – then I looked to the popes to find comfort…
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happily, as one good Bishop in exile said, ”One with God is a majority…God is not democratic, God is not impressed by numbers.”
rcammo: The prayer of Christ for unity was answered! That’s what so-called ecumenists fail to see. The Church, which is the Mystical Body of Christ, is one. There are those outside the Church who claim to be Christian, but that does not diminish the unity of the one, true Church founded by Jesus Christ. We are united in baptism, profession of the the true Catholic faiith, the same Sacrifice of the Mass, and submitting to the same authority; the Vicar of Christ and the bishops in union with him. While we’re still here on earth, we are called to bring all of mankind into this unity, as well as work for the establishment of the social reign of Christ the King throughout the world.
dear FrA,
My heart goes out to you for commenting thus.
Thank you for this. If I may say, may I ask you to please reiterate this over and over when you see it appropo here and elsewhere. In my endeavors to engage in evangelization, especially among those who have abandoned the Faith, I’ve found this is one of the things most singularly misunderstood.
May the Peace of His Majesty Our Lord Jesus Christ, a Peace not of this world, be to you.
This is an excerpt from one of Vladimir Putin’s favorite philosophers– Vladimir Soloviev in his Short story about the Antichrist:
… a remarkable person — many called him a superman. the….active sympathy with those in need which he evinced to such a great extent seemed abundantly to justify the immense self-love of this great spiritualist, ascetic, and philanthropist.. In a word, he considered himself to be what Christ in reality was. His attitude toward Christ resembled, for instance, that of Mohammed, a truthful man, against whom no charge of harboring evil designs can be brought….
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….’Christ,’ he said, “who preached and practiced moral good in life, was a reformer of humanity, whereas I am called to be the benefactor of that same humanity, partly reformed and partly incapable of being reformed. I will give everyone what they require. As a moralist, Christ divided humanity by the notion of good and evil. I shall unite it by benefits which are as much needed by good as by evil people. I shall be the true representative of that God who makes his sun to shine upon the good and the evil alike, and who makes the rain to fall upon the just and the unjust. Christ brought the sword; I shall bring peace. Christ threatened the earth with the Day of Judgment. But I shall be the last judge, and my judgment will be not only that of justice but also that of mercy. The justice that will be meted out in my sentences will not be a retributive justice but a distributive one. I shall judge each person according to his deserts, and shall give everybody
what he needs.”
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In this magnificent spirit he now waited for God to call him in some unmistakable way to take upon himself the work of saving humanity — for some obvious and striking testimony that he was the elder son, the beloved first-born child of God. He waited….. the sanction of the Most High in order to begin his saving of humanity;
Dear Indignus,
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Thank you very much for the tip. I just read the short story, and I found it to be positively chilling in its portrayal of the Anti-Christ. I am particularly thinking of the following passage:
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“And the wonderful author not only impressed all, but he was agreeable to all, so that the word of Christ was fulfilled: ‘I have come in the name of the Father, and you accept me not. Another will come in his own name – him you will accept.’ For it is necessary to be agreeable to be accepted.”
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“A Christian,” said Pope Francis, “must proclaim Jesus Christ in such a way that He be accepted.”
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Indeed.
We had the same reaction. Of course the author took many elements right from the book of Revelations, but it wasn’t so much the different roles of the people involved, as the twisted thinking and methods used to reverse the Divine will which caught our attention-especially in light of what has been taking place since 1960, and seems to be culminating now.
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Caution on the author, though, while he was converting, and came to the right conclusions about unity with Rome, he was also a favorite of Hans Urs Von Balthasar (author of the realistic hope that all men are saved idea, contrary to the Gospel)and the Post VII Popes.
We loved that one…”tradition dating all the way back to 1995″ 🙂
Sorry you went through that anti-catechesis, though It’s things like that which make us willing to pray and work more to spread the truth and help others who are victims of that. We experienced it in trying to fight it in the schools, to protect our children.
God Bless.
Thank you –such an important point in all these discussions of false ecumenism and dereliction of duty!.