Last Monday, Michale Voris fired another salvo in the direction of those in traditional Catholic media who don’t tiptoe around the confusion caused by Time Magazine’s Person of Year in a video entitled, “The Pope IS Different.”
I’ve lost count of the number of emails I’ve since received from people pleading for a reaction. The video below is that response. I actually made it five days ago but had some “behind the scenes” work to do.
You’ll notice an edit toward the end where I talk about Michael’s allegation that some people (presumably like me) are “making a living” off of criticizing the pope’s words and deeds.
Initially I had offered some details about the lengths some persons in the Church will go to see to it that guys like me don’t get to make a living, not just criticizing the pope, but at all. After consultation with a trusted adviser, however, I’ve decided that now isn’t the time to air such details. I will in due time…
So, without further delay, late to the dance though it may be, is my reply.
I’m very disappointed that Pope Francis referred to Card. Kasper’s address at the pre-synodal meeting of cardinals as a ‘beautiful reflection’, when Cardinal Burke, referring to the same address, said Kasper has made a ‘grave error’. Pope Francis is sending out very confusing signals and giving (false?) hope to many who want to see change in doctrine/practice re: divorce/remarriage/Holy Communion. I think it’s awful, but there you are.
Louie, YOU hit the nail on the head with this Gore-tex! Voris says the Pope should not be publicly criticized. Instead, the Pope should be contacted privately with any concerns or questions. Why doesn’t he take his own advice and give up The Vortex where he has been “exposing lies and falsehoods”. If one of the Bishops he has criticized openly is, in the future, elected Pope, will he recant? I notice ChurchMilitant TV is still on your links list. I wonder if he would do the same for you. Also, which luxury liner are YOU holding your next retreat? It is the words of the Bishop of Rome which came out of Dolan. The poison comes from the top. Keep up the good work, Louie!
Thank you Louie for being an exemplary Christian.
I would not agree with Michael Voris on this issue in any event, but I what I really object to is the personal attacks concerning other writers: that is why I will no longer contribute to his efforts.
I do think that it should be obvious that 50 years of not ACTING as though it much matters if one is Catholic–including on the part of Popes–has resulted in countless Catholics leaving the faith…and fewer joining it.
Nice work, Louie! (And, nice jacket, too! 🙂 )
Your patience, like that of Messrs. Vennari, Matt and Ferrara, is exemplary.
I also join Steve in his particular objection to the ad hominem foulness of which M. Voris has yet to publicly repent concerning those three men (each an outstanding father, husband and analytical writer whose devout families, no doubt, had to endure the shock of seeing them “associated” by Voris’ stupid analogy with a criminally depraved activity.)
That one, as I’ve said before here and on other Catholic sites, demands nothing less than a heartfelt, detailed public apology from Voris. Nothing less.
October will see a changing of the whole discussion- either the Pope gives way to Kasper’s radicalism or he settles for the post-Vatican II stasis of decline. Neither are good ways forward but at least it will be clear who we have on the Throne of St Peter.
Who could have forecast last March the mess we are now in and all the trouble and mischief? It’s beyond my wildest bad dreams. In fact, I had only hope for the new Pontiff, whoever he would be.
The following is an interesting quote from a pontiff – Benedict XV (“fifteenth”) – on the subject of one particular layman’s famous criticisms of contemporary popes (emphases added):
“But, it will be said, he inveighs with terrible bitterness against the Supreme Pontiffs of his times. True; but it was against those who differed from him in politics and he thought were on the side of those who had driven him from his country. One can feel for a man so beaten down by fortune, if with lacerated mind he breaks out sometimes into words of excessive blame, the more so that, to increase his feeling, false statements were being made by his political enemies ready, as always happens, to give an evil interpretation to everything. And indeed, since, through mortal infirmity, ‘by worldly dust even religious hearts must needs be soiled’ (St. Leo M. S. IV de Quadrag), it cannot be denied that at that time there were matters on which the clergy might be reproved, and a mind as devoted to the Church as was that of Dante could not but feel disgust while we know, too, that reproof came also from men of conspicuous holiness. But, however he might inveigh, rightly or wrongly, against ecclesiastical personages, never did he fail in respect due to the Church and reverence for the ‘Supreme Keys’“
(from the encyclical In Praeclara Summorum, commemorating the sixth centenary of the death of Dante).
BRAVO!!!!
What is disturbing, is that Harvesting the Fruits has become Bash the Popes. You are rambling Louie. Can I keep up with your intellect? No. Am I as well read and understanding of Church documents as you? No. I am pretty much the equivalent of a peasant. But I do know one thing. You are walking a fine line. Arrogance is a dangerous thing. Have you read some of the things people say in response to your articles here? Are you proud of all of this? You told me once to embrace the cross and join my own sufferings with that of Christ. Good advice for me, good advice for you. There is so much confusion today and you are not helping. You have evidently convinced yourself that you are, but you are not. It is not for guys like you and me to decide who becomes a saint and who does not. Yes, you are very smart. So smart that you can point out all the bad fruit that all of your adversaries produce. But can you recognize your own? More than likely this message will be ridiculed for not going along with the status quo with the “real” traditionalists. So be it. As the three children of Fatima would pray, let us also pray, for the Holy Father, reparation for our own sinfulness, and for the conversion of sinners. What do you desire Louie, the best for our Holy Father, or to see him scandalized? I am nobody, who are you?
LEAP SHEEP
“The knock-out blow of Satan
has been to cause disobedience
in the name of obedience.”
(Fr. Cyprian, OSB, Prior of Our Lady of Guadalupe Monastery)
Litto froggy cross da pond
Hope some fairy’s got a wand
Hit you hard up-side yo head
Shed some light…yo brains is bread.
You ain’t got sense no nuffin’
Brains is made of bran-flake muffin.
Wolfy-sheep done called you near
Ups you hopped ran like a deer.
Him brother froggies followed too
And jumped right in wolf-sheepy’s stew.
Then there you be all puffed with pride
And one by one them froggies died.
Then wolfy-sheep he called, “My sons?”
And wolfy-sheep him meal all dones
Says, “Litto frog get outa’ hea’
Tomorrow bring yo sistas dea’.”
And litto frog him hop away
‘Cause litto frog him do obey.
And litto froggy hopped, hopped, hop
Tumbled, tripped into Frog Pop.
And froggy Pop asked, “What you say?”
Said litto frog, “I do obey
And all my litto brothers too
They helped the wolf make sheepy stew.”
Then froggy Pop him hung him head
And took him son away and led
Him hoppin’ down the woodsy lane
And put in froggy’s hand his cane
All shiney white to help him see…
…nuffin’.
Meanwhile, across the pond, Deacon Nick at the “Protect the Pope” blog got shut down by his bishop for saying the same sort of things in defense of orthodoxy that Michael Voris says. Deacon Nick NEVER had a bad word to say about the Pope, nor would he allow anyone to say anything the slightest bit deragotary about the Pope.
The point is it is just a matter of time before the bishops go after Voris too.
Things are so bad in the Catholic Church right now thanks to Pope Francis that I am seriously wondering why I should remain a Catholic. If I was a parent with a young child there is no way I would send them to a Catholic school. They would be much better off in a conservative Protestant school.
And things are just getting worse every day since Francis became Pope…
God bless you Louie.
James David, in that entire post above you offered nothing of substance with which to criticize Louie. Accusing him of rambling and arrogance isn’t substance. You keep saying how smart he is, and warned hiw dangerous it is to be smart. W lhere has he said this about himself and since when has our God given intellect something to be put in a bushel basket? It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to recognize contradiction anyway, only honesty for crying out loud, and maybe a thimble full of courage.
And asking if he wants to see the pope scandalized?Really? Come on man. No one but the Church’s enemies wants this crisis, but it’s going to take more
than hiding our heads in the sand to end it.
Louie says what everyone who knows the true Catholic Faith is thinking about the Pope’s public utterances, whether they’re willing to say so publicly or not. I think that’s of great value as a “sanity check.”
Michael Voris, in contrast, proudly says he’s opted to put on the happy face of self-censorship, vis-a-vis the Pope’s faux pas, lest some unknown naive person reject entering the Church as a consequence, not because of something weird and un-Catholic the Pope said, but because of Michael Voris’s criticism of it! Also, he posits some unwritten and unknown Church law that you must be a canonizable saint of the highest order to publicly state the truth about the Pope as you honestly see it. Not only that, he bashes fellow apologists who don’t follow his own strange self-imposed standard.
This real-life example show why we need a “sanity check.” Thanks, Louie!
James David, an old saying comes to mind: “Better to keep silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt.”
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I’m speaking of you. You are exactly the type of person Louie is speaking to: you are scandalized by entirely valid, necessary criticism of the supreme pontiff’s actions because you do not understand Church authority and the nature of the Church well enough. That, and, perhaps, you’ve been a bit brainwashed into papalotry by the professional neo-Catholic apologists of the day.
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I would recommend you read the entire history of Louie’s blog, starting from the beginning.
Great, great GORE-TEX. “Worm in the big apple”- BRAVO!
Thank you Louie. The Truth sets us free, and we recognize the Good Shepherd’s voice in what we’ve heard here. As St. Catherine said, “We’ve had enough exhortations to be silent! Cry out with a hundred thousand tongues. I see that the world is rotten because of silence.” Did she envision a 100,000 people as holy as Michael says she was? Did she mean for the cry to be whispered so it would just tickle the ear of the recipient? I think not! Crying out allows the emotional urgency to be felt and helps awaken the complacent.
Michael, the RCC is the true Church. These are difficult times, sure, but apostasy will get you nowhere! When the times get rough, the tough get going. We need saints.
Another good analogy Louie. Thank you.
You’re right Louie, Michael Voris has done a lot of great work but he has undermined his effort by avoiding criticism of any pope. Today, I posted the real Third Secret, as it was confirmed as authentic by Cardinal Ottaviani and Father Luigi Villa. It confirms the prophecy given at La Sallette, and as you know was to be made public in 1960. Our Blessed Mother wanted it known that Satan would darken the Church, rising to the very top. The actions of Pope Francis can leave us in little doubt, so I go with Our Lady’s request that a light be shone on the situation, as you, Chris Ferrara, John vennari, and Michael Matt have been doing. Perhaps Francis will by some special grace do a complete turnaround, but while he goes the road he’s going it is our duty heed the words of Fatima and speak up.
Pope Frank II, I really hope that you don’t actually think you are Pope Frank II!
Thanks, Louie, for a great video response to Michael Voris. Not only he, but each one of us, is going to have to face where the present ‘bishop of Rome’ is leading us. Indeed, October’s ‘Synod on the Family’ will reveal much. My sense is that Mr. Bergoglio is just getting started tampering with the sacraments. It is the doublespeak of masonic strategy: Marriage is an indissoluble union, but we will have mercy and dissolve a marriage for those who need it. No pope has ever tampered with Church doctrine the way this present entity is doing. Let us pray for Holy Mother Church, and let us know our priority is to the true Faith, not to any prelate–no matter how high.
The more I think about it, the more it looks like Voris is making a deliberate attempt to get in the mainstream. Wouldn’t doubt if he pops up on CAL soon. Wait and see.
Excellent, Mr. Verrecchio! Thank you!
Hi Louie. Slightly off topic or maybe not. I will let you decide.
Tomorrow March 25 is the anniversary of the passing from this life into the next of Archbishop Lefebvre.He too was charged with the crime of crticingthe popes and especially of condemning the new super-dogma of the Church created by Vatican II.I have written a “hymn” dedicated to Archbishop Lefebvre titled “To restore all things in Christ”:
http://publicvigil.blogspot.com/2014/03/to-restore-all-things-in-christ.html
Thank you, Louie. It takes nerves of steel to do what you are doing—acknowledging honestly the situation we are in after your own in-depth study of VII—and what others such as Matt, Vennari, Ferrara, have also done.
I am saddened by Michael Voris’ vitriol, as I discovered him less than 2 years ago. I knew he was not friendly to SSPX people such as myself, but I still thought him a good commenter on the affairs of the Church. I did not know he would so easily turn against some of those who have helped him to reach his current status. I do believe there will be changes in October; it will be hard to reconcile the expected damage, and I truly pray that I am wrong.
I was adding that I appreciated the thoughtful commentary of Stephen, Geoffery, Chris and others, who commend you, Louie, on your careful approach.( My little computer misbehaves and sends messages before they are complete.)
Prayers for all!
Thank you, Louie. If there was only the voice of voris out there right now, I think I might have been having a crisis of faith by now. Lies are lies are lies hidden or othewise = the slowly boiling frog routine coming from Rome seems to be working on most people, and as long as CMTV becomes complicit, they may end up being boiled by the time Francis whips out his stunner.
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I think Mr Voris is now stuck on the accusation-bungy backlash. He just can’t control the boinggg boing of what he set off anymore, and when it stretches all the way to the rapids and he’s hanging there, he might have wished the moment just before he dove off, that there could have a been a rewind mechanism, but now he has to play out the twang. It’s strange, all these people Mr Voris thinks are buying homes in Swizterland with the spare cash they make off wading through Bergoglio toxins (he’s been to the Philipines, he must know about the business of having to live at the rubbish dumb in the bid to find some morsel of worth). Meanwhile CMTV has their own studio, and two retreats a year on cruise ships and ranches, and have enough dosh to send Michael off on internationals regularly. Strange, strange mode of attack. The pope and his bishops and, indeed, millions of apathetic laity are the problem but Voris is lobbing stinkbombs at those who are doing a good job, a vital and holy job.
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Thanks for the note on Archbishop Lefebvre’s anniversary, Michael Leon.
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God bless your apostolate, Louie. Christ suffered calumny as well.
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pr.18.1 He that hath a mind to depart from a friend seeketh occasions: he shall ever be subject to reproach. Be careful, Mr Voris.
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as for Bergoglio: “Adulterers, know you not that the friendship of this world is the enemy of God? Whosoever therefore will be a friend of this world, becometh an enemy of God.”
@long-skirts, thanks for wolf’s – sheepy stew. I think anyone sincere is trying to avoid that devilish dish.
Nice work, Louie. I’ve written a few recent blog pieces that dovetail in quite nicely with your position and approach as they also expose the unfortunate faulty logic exercised by Michael involving this matter. Hopefully he will sooner rather than later come to his senses regarding this important aspect of fraternal correction that needs to also be done publicly so long as he chooses to publicly criticize other Church leaders for making the same statements that the Pope makes. To be sure, when Michael criticizes other Church leaders who echo and imitate Pope Francis’ statements, he is also criticizing the Pope’s statements even if he does not name Pope Francis as the author. As such, it is indeed disingenuous to claim a moral high ground simply because he does not include Pope Francis by name in his criticism of “papal statements” made by others.
God Bless!
DB
http://vlogicusinsight.wordpress.com/
Louie,
You are an excellent writer and your offer very sound and Catholic criticism of the Pope and others who err from the Faith. You blog has gained great fame on that account. If your previous apostolate is now ended because you are no longer politically correct, nevertheless you can start a new one. Take as an example the recent trend of News/Commentary sites run on themed platforms such as that devoloped by WordPress, and start an Internet newspaper, sell adds, and support yourself that way. Such a sight could include not only news and commentary, but catechetics on important theological and moral questions, etc., invite contributions, and encourage defense of the faith, etc…
Bascially, you’d be doing nothing more than expanding what you are already doing, and reformating this site. You can include weekly videos and sollicit written and video commentary by other sites, slowly building your site into an Internet TV channel. True there are many other sites which in part do this, but Voris has shown that there is a opportunity there that Catholics would support. As for criticizing hierarchs, make that a part, but not the center of the site. Sollicit contributions by writers in the English speaking world who reside in other parts of the world, etc.. Sites such as I describe can generate 10-20k in the first year of operation, just on advertising revenue. Catholic laymen who are business men can thus support and participate in supporting in various ways. While readers get informed and formed.
You have the advantage over sites like the Remnant, Catholic Family News, Rorate Caeli and other blogs, because you are more educated and thus, if you want, can avoid their foibles and personalities which limit their effectiveness. If you avoid the error of laicism, you will be able to build bridges. And you can defend against the false charges of men like Vorris, by including opportunities and exhortations to pray for Our Holy Father, just as any truly honest and faithful son never gives up praying for and loving an errant father, even when he must publically criticise him. In the English speaking world, we have no equivalent of such an apostolate as I describe, and we are desperately in need of one. I am sure your readers would be ardent supporters.
Our Lady of the Annuciation, oro pro nobis.
Dear Mr. V.,
I appreciate so much, beyond words, your utilization of the word “complicity.” It speaks volumes and is right on target as to the severity , also, of failing to recognize the distinction between The Chair of Peter and any current Pope. I like your videos very much,your direct approach & spontanaity is marvelous, and much more.
I don’t like the scmhaltz, though. We don’t have to shake hands or hug anyone in order to forgive and love them for the sake of true charity. But that’s just me, Mr. V. I hope you will keep the vids frequent and thank you for the work in producing them.
thank you, Long-Skirts !
heh heh heh , very good,
my dear Saluto,
“devilish dish,”
may I use that?
dear Craig V.,
I totally agree with you.
dear Michael Leon,
keep the Faith, brother in Christ. Pooh Bear gives excellent advice–do follow.
May the Peace of Our Lord Jesus Christ, a Peace not of this world, be to you.
Pray to Our Lady Star of the See, sure Safe Harbor, for solace.
God love you.
@Linda – go ahead – so long as you have a food taster – i hear JPII did.
Catholic at Rome writes:
“… just as any truly honest and faithful son never gives up praying for and loving an errant father.”
Louie, that must strike close to home for you. And thinking more about it… it strikes close to home for me as well since my father was a secular humanist. Like so many in the “modern” world, he was a “good” man who lost the faith. He put his “faith” instead in pure reason and “modern” science. A lot like the current President who will be visiting the Pope on March 28. They will have a lot to talk about…
Pray for the fathers of the “modern” world…
Excellent, Louie!
I’m sure you’ll be getting Voris’ call: “Be my friend, Godfather, please?”
we need to pray that our watchmen don’t betray us to the enemy, that they ‘sound the trumpet’ and warn their people.
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‘and if the watchman see the sword coming and sound not the trumpet: and the people look not to themselves, and the sword come and cut off a soul from among them: he indeed is taken away in his iniquity, but I [the Lord] will require his blood at the hand of the watchman’. Ezek. 33
The devil certainly would tell us we are all sinners, therefore we cannot talk against what others say or do. An excellent way to shut us up as no one, truly, is worthy to admonish the sinner. Yet someone needs to do it just at St Paul admonished Peter. Wether he knows it or not, Voris is falling into the devil’s trap.
Let’s hope we can find another brave soul like Archbishop Lefebvre to stand up to this pope and request that he correct himself and do what a pope is supposed to do, which is to protect the received doctrine of the faith and encourage the faithful in its practise.
NOT remake the church in a liberal modernist image.
dear rod larocque,
your concise yet beautifully touching comment is like cool, clear water on a hot day.
Louie, thanks for your criticism of Voris’s latest bit of nonsense. MV is basically asking Catholics to become brain dead cultists by telling them to put the Pope above public criticism. As a former cult member myself, there’s no way I’m going to go back to that kind of mentality. When any man is above criticism, he might as well be God. Michael Voris, IMO, has elevated the Pope to Godhood. His CMTV, unless he awakens from his slumber, will become a center of papolatry.
“America” (the spirit) must be rooted out if this country is to continue. Louie is an expert on this. Let’s put our heads together. Let’s start a new country, one that is truly founded on Christian principles, a country where the Christian principles are integrated into the social fabric from top to bottom. “God bless America” is kind of a contradiction or an oxymoron. It’s like saying “God bless abortion”. We need a confessional state that recognizes the Social Kingship of Our Lord Jesus Christ and quickly before the “America” infestation spreads over the whole world. Hopefully, those in the Mystical Body anointed with the baptismal priesthood have enough grace through prayer to dethrone “America”. If not we’ll need the bishops to consecrate these “united states” (leave off the “America” part) to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. God bless our land.
I have said this before and I will say it again:
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Voris’ stance on not criticising Francis is (in my opinion) very likely due to his association with opus dei. That is why he WILL NOT budge on this issue. I have had personal contact with people from this sect through family members on my mother’s side, and they are truly this: a sect that masquerades as conservative catholicism. The more I read about this organization, the more horrified I become. Doubtless Mr Voris, otherwise a fine and serious catholic, has become the latest victim of Msgr (NOT saint) Escriva’s sect that asks and demands from its members BLIND obedience to superiors, as if EVERYTHING they say comes DIRECTLY from God. This is tantamount to idolatry and a contradiction of scripture that we must obey God first rather than man. Incidentally, their brain-washing techniques go against Canon law but that is a different topic altogether.
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I wonder if Mr Voris will also be mute during the synod on the family in October when communion for public adulterers will most likely be approved for “pastoral” reasons under “specific” circumstances (always the Trojan horse to ram through novelty in the Church). What will he say then? Will he worship at the altar of the CHURCH OF NICE which HE HIMSELF castigates with so much frequency?
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Whenever someone claims that they are imitating and trying to bring back the alleged “spirit” of the first Christians that is a red flag for heresy. That was the same excuse to give us the new mass, new sacraments etc etc. This was exactly the claim of Msgr Escriva for founding opus dei.
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If anyone reading this is associated with opus dei – get out will you still can before it is too late for your souls’ sake.
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I have taken the time to write all this to show the probable root of the problem with Mr Voris and what we are most likely facing.
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I recently found this video interview with Fr Kramer where he details the real face of opus dei, curiously enough aired on the Spanish network of Russia Today (RT), and where the interviewer, also curiously enough, talks about Francis being “The destroyer, not canonically elected” allegedly prophesied by St Francis:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C88M7ZmNXwQ
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“We ought to obey God, rather than men.”
Acts 5:29
dear Edu,
You are brave in saying these things. I agree with you . I too have experience with the horrendous sect dating from a time over 25 yrs ago when they were “courting” one of my older sons. In addition, I do find it sad that not more stop at the “red flag” to which you rightly signal an alert.
I like that Louie has pointed out that Michael Voris has done good things, and that he still loves Voris like a brother. Louie is charitable when the situation calls for it, and this is what separates him from some other trad writers.
I agree with what Louie has said in the video regarding the Pope continuing down the road that he’s determined to lead us, and that the poison being fed by the pope will be so dangerous that Voris will have to sound the alarm publically. Louis also mentions that he hopes that he’s wrong about this (as do I), but this is something I’ve been thinking about lately. So far, the Pope has for the most part implicitly taught and done things that go against the Catholic Faith. But there will likely come a time where he explicitly does something against the Faith, and that Voris will not be able to keep silent, or to tell others that they have to be silent.
Perhaps Michael Voris believes that unless there is not explicit denial of the tenets of the Faith, then we must keep quiet. Here’s an analogy for that: I live in a state where there is a lot of rainfall. Sometimes there is flooding due to the rivers rising from too much rain. Right now, in the Church the river is rising. Maybe it won’t lead to flooding, but don’t we have a duty to put out the warning that flooding may happen, due to the possible loss of life and property that could occur? It’s quite natural to sound the alarm in order to warn of disaster before it happens, before the water arrives at our doorstep.
dear Denise,
well, I think your analogy is magnificent. In former posts, over different Voris issues, and I might add before Voris bashed Catholic writers, I’ve suggested that Voris simply has an “approach” -{to evangelization,} that differs from others. OK, we can grant that perhaps. But , in my opinion anyway, I think the danger to those who are either reverts or potential converts, especially if you consider the 50+ years of abysmal catechesis, is far too great. Just my take. There is a way to weave in the reality of the current Pontiff’s already deep harm done–and actually prevent more harm.
Michael Voris is not a member of Opus Dei. However, he has recommended OD as a great organization for Catholics to belong to. It is interesting to note that CMTV is very touchy about Voris’s former business partner Brammer who is a member of OD. BTW, I don’t think it would be wrong to assume that a lot of Voris’s support probably comes from OD members. Here’s a video were MV recommends OD. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjlKZxfY6DT
Steve V,
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Why on earth would Voris PUBLICLY recommend opus dei if he were not a member himself? Don’t you know a lot of members refrain from revealing their identity?
A agree, Linda. Even if the current Pope does not lead us to disaster, there is still danger, as you say, to reverts or potential converts. After all, the Church that many believe that they are converting to, or coming back to, is not teaching the same Faith as was taught by Our Lord, the Apostles, or the Church before the Council. For instance, we can see how this has happened with the many converts who work for Catholic Answers. They seem upset by traditionalist views, because that’s not what they thought that they were converting to. They thought that they were converting to a peace and love hippie church (as espoused by JP2), where it’s all good, and we love everyone (except trads), and everyone is still going to Heaven or Purgatory, and where certain words like Hell, grave sin, heretics, or apostates is never mentioned. I have sympathy for these folks in a way, because they weren’t taught the Faith properly in the first place. But yeah, as you say, there is a way to weave the (all too obvious) reality of the deep harm already done by the current pope, and prevent more harm.
Thank you Louie for the kind fraternal correction:+) It takes courage to follow truth…whatever that truth may be:+) I think this Lent is giving us all doses of the spiritual works of mercy…ALL of them: Instructing the ignorant…counseling the doubtful…admonishing the sinner…consoling the afflicted…forgiving offenses willingly…bearing wrongs patiently…praying for the living & dead. This experience with CMTV and MV choosing fear and false humility over truth has helped me look into my own issues with charity, forgiving enemies, and humility. I’m very tiny and at the bottom of the rung…a lay woman in the Catholic Church. I also catch myself acting out with anger b/c of the pain cont’d
inflicted by my spiritual father on earth…the confusion, chaos, fear and loneliness it has wrought. When it hits I lash out from it…which isn’t freedom or goodness. And I’m sorry for it. But strangely, seeking that true humility which per St. Thomas Aquinas is just staying within your bounds of who you are…I find myself looking up into the vast heavens-forcing myself down to earth-, now filled with God instead of me, and He still gives me the freedom to call out the wrong things said by the Pope…it’s just tempered now with A) peace B) less vitriol/pain C) better motives i.e. truth, salvation of souls and charity for the Pope. Now I just have to work at staying here:+) cont’d
Here is to all of us here taking the dung thrown at us by the enemy and using it to fertilize our own spiritual lives so we can battle him better and win the day for Christ:+) Yes, MV and CMTV have gone a little wonky…they can’t see clearly yet…but let us pray that they do see (and soon), forgive them, will their good i.e. love them and be examples for them to follow. They are our brothers who love the Lord and His Church. Pray for their humility…we all need it. Bear their wrongs, forgive their offenses and rejoice that we are getting hit for Truth…our rewards in Heaven are piling up! God bless you for your work here, Louie. MV is blessed to have you as his friend and brother:+) God bless~
MMC, I like your posts, especially where you mentioned, as per St. Thomas, that seeking true humility is staying within the bounds of who we are. I’d not heard that before. God bless you in being given the graces to work through the pain, and to learn to love and pray for those who are doing wrong, while not refraining from pointing out wrongs. After all, IMO, it is not a loving thing to do to allow others to persist in error. But it’s difficult to temper correction with charity.
Louie, this is EXCELLENT work. I will be passing this video around.
edu, Voris said in his video he wasn’t a member. I took him at his word. However, I’m a novice about Opus Dei, I just started to learn about it. But, due to my experiences with a cult in my younger days, such duplicity on the part of Voris wouldn’t surprise me.
Steve D,
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It looks like the video you linked to has been removed. What a coincidence right? It appears that trolls from CMTV are carefully combing through the posts in this blog… Anyhow, I found another on YouTube (hopefully this one won’t be removed):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjIKZxfY6D4
After watching the video again (I watched it for the first time around one year ago) and hearing him praise to the skies the glories of opus dei for several minutes non-stop, and claiming that “opus dei is, if not THE ANSWER, at least is the best that I can see” (4:45), I am even more convinced of Voris’ affiliation with opus dei; there is NO WAY that Mr Voris is not somehow affiliated with this sect. His statement that he is “not a member of Opus Dei” is probably a half truth, with his definition of “being a member” possibly being a numerary or super-numerary. You don’t have to fit in either of the two categories to be affiliated with the sect, I can tell you this as one of my family members is an example.
Truly I wish the ‘lobs’ on whatever side would cease! We had better hang together and let the jabs pass by and offer it up if we need to: bear wrongs patiently I think is how it is worded as a Spiritual Work of Mercy. The finger pointing is a waste of time. It can be stated when something comes out of Rome that is worrisome and it appears there will be no lack of that but the attacks do not edify. And we need things that edify. We all must seek to be greatly catechized so that we can be evangelizers in our own spheres of influence.
Steve D,
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PS If you are fluent in Spanish, I can pass to you a number of excellent YouTube videos about the opus dei sect. Incidentally, some, if not most, of the most ferocious critics of the sect are former members that are still practicing, believing catholics, that are prepared to speak out and face persecution to be a witness to truth in an act of charity to warn others.
Thanks Denise. Any wisdom that spews out of my mouth is due to God’s grace, my constant fumblings and Google searches:+) It’s Lent so I’m trying to see the spiritual attacks as mere opportunities to grow in holiness…practicing some detachment…not easy but I’m trying anyway:+) Looks like this post got infected too…strange names too…Saskia? Evlin? Although Patrick is a normal:+) I’m saying prayers for them ASAP…hoping their time here touching truth will tempt them to stay and be set free:+) FYI: people don’t have to be “experts” with numerous letters after their last names to speak truth. Our Lord, every single apostle and the Fathers and doctors had no “degrees” cont’d
The “expert” and “degreed” thing is symptom of Modernism. The Deposit of Faith is meant for the simple and the Holy Spirit takes over from there. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see that teachings from pre and post V2 don’t match up. I am wary of “experts” now…they seem to be dumber than hair…and the leaders of perdition. As a Traditional Catholic I read: A) Scripture (ALOT) B) the Catechisms pre-V2 (although I’ve read some of the V2 one) C) the writings of the saints, doctors and fathers D) Magisterial writings E) spiritual writings that reflect the Deposit of Faith. I study the original so I can see the counterfeit a mile away. God bless Louie for studying V2 for us cont’d
And presenting it’s errors clearly so we can address them and hopefully restore the Church. Lord, please bless all the people here seeking Truth and trying to follow You. Reward their honest hearts with your grace to see Your Kingdom with a pure heart…and the courage to follow You closely, as they carry their cross on the way home. Amen.
God bless you all and Happy Lent!
Edu, have you ever heard of ODAN? It’s a group that fights against Opus Dei. I found their web site the other day, and frankly, the information they have on OD is troubling. The stuff I’ve seen so far reminds me of the cult I was in years ago. Same play, different actors. For those who wish for more information on Opus Dei go to: http://www.odan.org/index.htm
The truest thing you said to Michael Voris is that Francis will continue along the path he has chosen, stepping further and further off the path until only the most blind among us will any longer doubt that he is “feeding us poison.” Francis is changing the effect of dogma through a personality cult and loose talk. Unfortunately, those who want to live the pagan life, seize upon every digression from dogma as a lifeline to protect the lifestyle which the Church has previously always condemned.
P.S. Your contempt for Cardinal Dolan is totally warranted. The ingratiating and fawning encouragement he offers to a spiritually destructive life choice is shameful.
Netanel,
If you think Allen knows what orthodox means, you have no idea of who the man is. Allen is one of the most virulent agents of modernism, that is why he writes today as a reporter for the Boston Globe, a paper no Catholic with a conscience would have anything to do with.
If Allen says Bergoglio is orthodox, then that is, infact, the worst commendation he could get, short of being openly named a heretic or modernist.
Netanel,
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Beside the obvious fact that Mr Allen is not a reliable source as to who is orthodox and who is not, in this day and age those who fully adhere to the deposit of faith are not termed “orthodox” by the world (which to those who know their faith know this really means modernist ie Karol Wojtyla “The Great”, B XVI (the great “restorer of tradition” etc etc) but more something like “ultra-orthodox with schismatic/lefebvrian tendencies”).
I find this notion that some commentators are putting forward–albeit implicitly, without the backbone to make the accusation plainly–that Mr. Verrecchio’s theological understanding is inferior to that of Mr. Voris to be utterly ridiculous. Voris is no great scholar and has never shown himself to be one. He has always been quick to overlook anything adverse from any Pontiff and has more than once passed off the work of others as his own–I recall a lecture of his once on CMTV in which he very clearly plagiarized Ralph McInerny’s book “What Went Wrong With Vatican II: The Catholic Crisis Explained”, and while he likes to claim that he’s a wise and learned man in matters of theology and philosophy, he is at best an earnest amateur. I find his conduct despicable. Moreover, if one is to start hurling accusations of scandal and inducing people to apostasy or confirming them in heresy, then it is the very likes of people like Voris, who have so long denounced and excoriated (rightly) the conciliar Church and its prelates who are most to blame for that very phenomenon. If Voris truly believed what he is saying he would have to shut CMTV permanently, or else assimilate to that very Church of Nice he so abominates. In all this ridiculous display from him, one is put in mind of no other injunction but “Physician, heal thyself.”
Thank you for speaking the objective truth. The Deposit of Faith and morals do not change according to a particular pope’s predelictions. The deposit of Faith is unchanging and unchangeable. Popes can lead people astray by grave error in what they say or do. Unfortunately, we are not guaranteed holy and faithful popes. The smoke of Satan fills every crevice in the Church. Blessed Michael the Archangel defend us in the hour of battle …
So many have jettisoned their objective reason regarding this Pope. The Pope has said and done many things that conflict with the deposit of Faith. Look at these things objectively – if they are wrong for a bishop or priest to say, how much more wrong and harmful are they when said or done by the Holy Father?It is terrible to see how quickly people will turn their back on the deposit of Faith and reason.
Netanel
First time commenter here. Maybe I can help with some of your questions/comments…
You say,”I simply remain Catholic and in communion with Peter and thus Christ.”
This is all well and good, but as a Catholic you are also obligated to know and learn the faith. Not simply to sit there and be told what you should or shouldn’t do. You are to rejoice in your faith and your heart will not be able to rejoice in what your mind cannot comprehend.
Furthermore, you are obligated out of charity to pray for the Holy Father, and also to discern wisely what those in authority tell you, and if some situation arise where you know those in authority to be speaking erroneously, then you are obligated to help instruct them in humility, and even to inform those who might be sent astray in error from hearing them. It is the same as when Christ Himself lambasted the Pharisees warning us to be wary of their ‘yeast’, their teachings, which are erroneous. He instructed them to always pay attention to those teachings from the seat of Moses, the long-standing Tradition of the Jews, even if the High Priest himself is led into error. Much in the same way we are to obey the Tradition from the Chair of Peter, even if the Pope himself is led into error.
This does not mean you have the authority to depose the High Priest or the Pope any more than David did the kingship of Saul whom God did tell Samuel to anoint and choose to give to the people who demanded a worldly king of their own liking. Likewise God too can choose to anoint a Pope demanded by the worldly thinking of Catholics gone astray. God will still protect His Church even under a bad leader, much as how He continued to protect Israel even under Saul. But while David and his men resisted King Saul, David did not dare to depose Saul and recognized Saul’s authority as King over Israel, because God Himself placed him there and God Himself has the authority to depose him.
The lesson here is that we must always remain vigilant, and seek to always instruct ourselves under what is right and not simply bow to authority without justification. The Popes are human and can err in what they say and do. This doesn’t mean they aren’t striving for holiness, or that all their actions and words are discredited, nor does it mean they cannot be in Heaven when they die DESPITE their mistakes. A Pope who humbly submits himself to God’s will and mercy can indeed, like anyone else go to Heaven by throwing aside their error when confronted by the informed Truth standing right before them, and willingly purging themselves of error and sin can go to Heaven before the absolute purity and goodness of the Lord.
Netanel
With regards to the infallibility of canonization. It is indeed true, however that is providing that all prudent process has been done in due diligence. You have it a bit backwards when you suggest that
a) Person has been canonized.
b) Canonications are infallible
Therefore:
c) Canonized person lived life of heroic virtue and is in heaven.
Firstly, remember that anyone in heaven is a saint, by definition. This does not necessarily mean that they lived a life of heroic virtue.
Many people can be saved at the final hour of death by God’s mercy despite living openly sinful or scandalous lives, and even if they were never Catholic or even Christian to begin with. Such judgments are left up to God alone who is not bound by His Sacraments to deliver these. Many of which would by necessity have to go through Purgatory to expiate their sins.
Thus these men and women too would by definition be saints, but we do not canonize them, because first of all, the heroic virtues are not present, and the Church’s point on canonizing saints is in order to provide examples for the faithful to follow in their own lives. Thus the exact questions should be asked is whether or not it would be prudent to publicly canonize such and such a person?
So while a canonization may be valid and infallible, is it necessary licit? Great prudence must be taken in choosing those candidates –
1) Do they reach a standard of heroic virtue in their earthly life?
2) What is our standard of heroic virtue? Is it to an exceptional degree?
3) Consider that if our standards of heroic virtue aren’t exceptionally high, does this cheapen the value of the canonization process and the value for which it exists?
By point #3, the value of persons must be weighed as to the example we must set. Set the bar too low and we miss the point entirely of calling men and women to “be perfect as their Heavenyl Father is perfect.” We must conform ourselves as much as possible to the perfection of Christ. Since this is practically impossible for us absent an extraordinary infusion of divine grace, the next best examples to model ourselves after, are the saints, and thus if the Church wishes to bring us as close to Christ as possible, then the candidates for sainthood, must be as near impeccable as possible!
This does not mean that all saints have lived perfect lives from cradle to grave. THe grand majority have become saints precisely by having the heroic virtue of transforming their lives completely around from whom they were, such that as a matter of record their before/after examples are staggering in their transformation.
So getting back to our original point, the process that makes canonizations infallible must meet the criteria first, not simply afterwards. Compare this to the Pope’s Magisterial infallibility with regards to doctrine:
1) The Pope cannot simply make up new doctrines and revelation and then claim them to be infallible. He does nto have this power.
2) The Pope can only rule those things infallible that are in accord with long standing Tradition and the long held magesterium of the Church throughout the ages, absent provable miraculous divine revelation that usually only sheds light and clarity on thigns already established through Scripture and Tradition (example: many late teachings of Mary as the Immaculate Conception & Co-redemptrix, Mother of Graces, one in intimate being with her Spouse the Holy Spirit).
Thus if the Pope can’t simply wave his hand like a magician and make binding doctrine, being bound by such restrictions, then it is likewise arguable that the Pope cannot also just wave his hand and declare saints without being bound by certain regulations.
So rather than say that infallible cannonizations prove heroic virtue and heavenly occupation, it is in fact the reverse: that heroic virtues as held factually by all the Church faithful during Earthly life, and proof of heavenly occupation (via miraculous intercession) help to strengthen the validity of the act of infallible canonization.
I’m personally noy opposed to the idea of Pope John Paul II and John XXIII being in heaven. They are undoubtedly far holier and heroic men than I… But I, like many would like them to be canonized by due process and prudence so as to protect the sanctity and virtue of the Saints.
First – That the act of canonizing them is indeed based on their own merits and not out of some political agenda to attempt to make valid by association issues within the Church that are a source of confusion & contention (Example: Pope John Paul II attended intereligious meetings, therefore converting others to Catholicism is not a high priority, and therefore you must also subscribe to this notion because Pope John Paul II did and he’s a saint, therefore you must live up to his example by not pushing for conversions and respecting other religions as he did.)
Secondly – That suitable time is given before beatifying or canonizing them such that their heroic virtues will prove true and outstanding by managing to live on in the minds and memory of the faithful long after they are deceased, their deeds and examples continuing to strengthen the Church and lead others to Christ long after death etc. Their heroic deeds must be allowed to outlive their unfortunate human errors over the passage of time.
Thirdly – That indeed their are in Heaven, and we can prove this through miraculous intercession that defies natural phenomena – precise proof that no-one can deny.
I, and undoubtedly many others would like all due prudence and authentic supernatural proof to be available first, then making valid and licit their canonization as saints to be followed. If these due processes are set aside, and valid contention remains, then this will prove problematic to the act of canonization and its infallibility. The Pope does have such power, but even this power is prudently put in check by regulation of rules in what he can and can’t infallibly define.
Netanel
Sorry for the walls of text, turns out adding extra spaces doesn’t help, and I can’t edit, so I’ll borrow your method of making paragraph spaces.
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I must take a moment to defend Fr. Gruner’s reputation from myths that continue to falsely perpetuate about him. It’s not your fault, but such egregious things that are false and outside of context must not be allowed to go on to slander him, regardless of one’s position about his apostolate. Long story short, Fr. Gruner does indeed have faculties from the Bishop of Hyderabad. There was an issue where he was called in to present himself before a disciplinary committee or else face a possible suspension. However, due to an immigration issues, Fr. Gruner could not go and informed them and asked for another possible solution or working out over the legal issues. However his replies and requests went unanswered, and the meeting never took place. Other Catholic writers who are unfavourable towards Fr. Gruner simply assumed that because the meeting didn’t happen that Fr. Gruner was automatically suspended, but this has no validity because no statement of suspension was ever written up, nor any reason for it. There only existed the possibility that he would face disciplinary suspension if he didn’t turn up, which he tried to, but couldn’t. The possibility existing, doesn’t automatically mean that he was suspended by due authority, there has to this day never been any formal suspension of Fr. Gruner. But he has enemies who continue to perpetuate this falsity. For a longer detailed account, I believe Chris Fererra has an article on their website. Fr. Gruner is still and continues to be a priest in good standing.
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As for the issue of Fatima, anyone who looks at the historical record knows that the Church continued to hide the 3rd Secret past the date it was to be revealed. The 2000 release only contains the text of the Vision and none of the words of the 3rd Secret spoken by Mary which begin with the words about the Dogmas of the faith and Portugal. The interpretation of the vision was not the official Church’s view of it, but Cardinal Sadano’s, which as Cardinal Ratzinger made clear, no one is obliged to accept his private interpretation, no ruling of the vision’s interpretation has ever been authoritatively made by the Church outside of mere opinionated statements. The only way of knowing this is to know what the Virgin herself said about the vision just as she spoke interpreting the visions of the 1st and 2nd secrets respectively about Heaven and Hell, leaving no room for interpretation other than the obvious. Cardinal Ratzinger curiously himself stated that the messages of Akita were the same as those of Fatima. And as Pope Benedict XVI openly declared that the Fatima message continues to unveil itself in the present and in future events with regards to a chastisement and passion of the Church, even reading into it the sex abuse scandal and even referred to the spoken words of the Virgin Mary, none of which were revealed in 2000 by the Vatican.
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As for the Consecration of Russia, anyone who looks at the historical record knows that the request of Our Lord through Mary was that Russia as a nation was to be the sole object of Consecration to Mary’s Immaculate Heart. That it was to be made in reparation for Russia’s personal sins and errors against God. That it was to be done publicly by the Pope. That the entire world’s bishops had to join the Pope in union for this consecratory act. Unfortunately none of this was followed. We’ve only had ‘World Consecrations’, ‘World Consecrations’ with ‘special mention’ of Russia. No mention at all of Russia’s personal sins and errors against God, which wouldn’t make sense anyway if one was consecrating the world. And always performed by the Pope alone with none of the World’s bishops ever joining him, and the Popes refusing to use their authority to command them to join him. John Paul II tried numerous times to accomplish this but for one reason or another always failed and then one day simply gave up declaring that he did whatever he could – something that should really highlight how odd it is for the Pope of all people to get the bishops to obey him to on one solemn day perform a small prayer service. Rumours are that Pope Jon Paul II was threatened by the Russian Communists, who might’ve held innocent people hostage. If this is true, and we have no proof that it is, then it’s understandable, but again runs counter to heroic virtue where the Pope is bowing to the demands of evil men rather than trusting in God and doing what God explicitly commanded His Church to.
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The consequences of not consecrating Russia was that Russia would continue to spread her errors around the world, which would be adopted and celebrated by even Western democracies like the United States of America, which Sr. Lucia said would also one day become Communist. I’d say these prophecies are already fulfilled considering the state of America and the entire Western world, which are not only morally bankrupt and anti-Christ, but are also further sliding into socialism and destroying the free market economy by government over-regulation, persecuting the Church, and moving towards a system, such as that of the E.U. that is pretty much a duplicate of the U.S.S.R. that overrules the democratic actions of the people of various European nations, and continues expansion and proliferation of its Godless socialist agendas over other smaller nations worldwide through bribery of foreign aid. As we approach the centennial 100th anniversary of Fatima, the prophecies given to Sr. Lucia are all coming true, and Russia remains unconsecrated and with recent actions and disputes it sounds like the world is once again entering an era of nuclear militarization. The Popes were further warned not to follow the example of the Kings of France who also refused to consecrate France to the Sacred Heart of Jesus, when 100 years later to the date, the Godless French Revolution overthrew the State, killing many clergy, people and beheading the royalty.
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As for your specific concern with whether canonizations mean anything in this regard, the answer is no. Canonizations do not wipe out the facts of history with regards to the actions or inaction of the Popes. Certainly the Popes can still go to Heaven (keyword)DESPITE their failings if they repent and are granted the grace of final perseverence, undergo their due time in Purgatory and delivered from therein via the prayers of the faithful. But as you clearly illustrate, the licety of the acts of canonizations as examples to follow afterwards is imprudent given that now even you are willing to ignore these failings on the part of the Popes to Consecrate Russia, and ignore the reality that continues to unfold around us in real time as the prophecies of Fatima continue to unfold right before our eyes. It is for reasons such as this that people argue it’s not a good idea to canonize certain men and women, because there are still contentious issues surrounding them that have not been given sufficient time to be settled, and some, like you, are attempting to use the canonizations as excuses to ignore or validate the failings of the Popes which could prove to be disastrous. Therefore this is why prudence and distance is required before canonizing Popes, and why these processes should be stalled until such a time has passed where the Church and faithful can objectively examine the cases for John Paul II and John XXIII’s sainthood, without any emotional attachment to the facts and rationale behind the canonization process. If their heroic virtues are truly heroic, then their holy examples will survive the long passage of time, securing their value for the Catholic faithful of the future.
By the end of 2014 you will see full apostasy.
I’m still trying to figure out why Michael Matt called Voris a “brother” in our battle for Tradition. Voris may be a “brother” because of his membership in the human race, but he is certainly no brother to Tradition. In fact, he is fast becoming just another enemy of Tradition.
in the notes of Faustyna Kowalski 17-12-1936 she writes about great sufferings that day like never before .She offered it for the priests (Bergoglio was born on that day)