I’m honored to announce that I will be joining Bishop Bernard Fellay, Superior General of the Society of St. Pius X, and Father Jürgen Wegner, District Superior of the SSPX in the United States, at the Third Annual SSPX Conference in Portland, OR on November 12, 2016. Please join us if you’re able! Tickets for the event may be purchased HERE.
Dear Louie, since the topic has been discussed on a couple of recent posts, would you please be able to ask His Excellency, Bishop Tissier de Mallerais, what he thinks about the question of validity regarding new rite of Episcopal Consecration while you are at the conference?
Thanks Louie, may God bless you.
Oops, sorry, I was looking at the photo from last year. Never mind!
I’m reminded by the photo to ask whether you’d like to post any info on your blog regarding online sites for donations to Mr. Vennari’s Medical expenses fund., and if you’ve heard how he’s doing. I’m praying for him and his family, and hope others will remember to do the same.
I wonder how many people die every day/souls are lost, while this sspx vs the vatican 2 religion idiocy is played out? It would be nice if the sspx stops playing games and takes a stand. This blog, and a fair amount of its readers, in addition to some other non-sede blogs, denounces this scoundrel jorge as a heretic on a DAILY basis. What is Bp Fellay waiting for? I know he’s a politician but when is his God-given good sense going to take over??? I know that he’s adored here (for whatever reason), but countless souls go to hell EVERY day on his watch while he continues to play pussy-foot with these degenerates of Rome.
The link to purchase tickets doesn’t work…
Thanks, helpusLord, for the reminder. Those who visit Mr. Vennari’s website for CFN will see an updated article with info as to how to donate. Let us remember John and his family in our prayers. He is one of the great warriors in this fight.
Because of his position as head of the largest Traditional Catholic priestly society, Bishop Fellay is, in essence, “the pope” of the aka Catholic world (I’m using the term loosely here). It is not an enviable position and he needs our prayers. However, the SSPX is NOT itself the Catholic Church. It is means to the (aka) Catholic Church whose Head is Christ alone. This is a position which requires much fortitude and courage. I, for one, believe that +Fellay must take a more aggressive role to combat the Vatican II “church” which he knows is wrong. I am looking forward to the day when Fellay (or anyone else for that matter) declares Bergoglio an absolute HERETIC and proceeds to disassociation himself and the Society from the Modernists now in control. So far, there’s no “deal”, so I’ll stay tuned and remain grateful that the SSPX is preserving True Catholicism.
There was an interview with Bishop Fellay on Gloria TV a couple of months ago:
“When asked, if he is weary of office after having been the superior general of the SSPX for more than twenty years, Bishop Fellay responds, that his second mandate ends in 2018: ‘If I’m tired? Humanly spoken yes.’ A younger successor would bring a fresh wind: ‘I would be happy if that happens. I’m in God’s hands. As God wills.’ “
Thank you, maryiloveher. It appears that +Fellay will be superior general in the year 2017. What will be his reaction to the inevitable celebration of Luther’s “Reformation” and the inevitable ignoring of Fatima? Like I say: “Stay tuned”. The upcoming year could be very decisive.
So to those who hold Benedict-Ratzinger as the Pope, I would like to ask:
If Benedict-Ratzinger should die, will you then become sedevacantist?
If Francis-Bergoglio should die, and the Novus Ordo heirarchy elect another “pope” while Benedict-Ratzinger is still living, then you would have to regard the new “pope” as an antipope, correct?
The only thing you can “hope” for, (for want of a better word) is that they both die at the same time; otherwise a conclave in either scenario would have to be regarded as invalid, and could only produce yet another antipope.
The only way out, it seems, is to refuse both of them, not least of all for the reason that they are both public heretics/apostates – then wait for normal transmission to be resumed in God’s time.
Have the “resignationist theory” (Benedict-still-the-pope) adherents thought this through?
Since this question is buried at the bottom of a now days-old post, I might have to past it in a fresher post in the near future. It needs a response.
Hey rich, the SSPX has done the heavy lifting all of these years by preserving Catholic tradition. As much as you’d like to hurl lightning bolts in every direction, all you can do is pound on your little keyboard. Sedevacantism is a bogus hangout for the spiritually immature folks like yourself.
GiveemhellLouie
Papal Subject,
I can’t speak for what others who hold this position think, but personally, I don’t believe we as individuals have power to definitively decide for others whether Benedict is still Pope or not.
Because Francis is out-rightly attacking Dogma, leading souls to hell, I feel obliged to denounce his teachings and am therefore relieved by the reasonableness of the arguments regarding Benedict.
From what I’ve read, Jorge Bergoglio was acting on this particular heresy against Penance and the Eucharist, back in Argentina as well; and has taken no public correction for it, even from the Cardinals like Burke, who wrote a book on why Kasper’s ideas, which we now have Francis’ own confirmation that he shares, are contrary to Dogma and must be renounced publicly.
That leaves Jorge as a public, pertinacious heretic in my judgment, and from what I’ve read of Bellarmine and others, he has self-excommunicated and lost the Papacy if indeed he ever held it.
Your question is excellent. What happens if Jorge now dies before Benedict. My answer is, I don’t know, but I have to act now in a responsible way with what is before me.
Bottom line: I cannot know whether Benedict is still the Pope, but it seems a reasonable argument to me.
I do believe that Jorge Bergoglio has to be officially removed from office by the hierarchy of the Church, and is a danger to the faith of billions.
If our hierarchy continues to remain silent about that, I will have to assess whatever happens, and use my rightly formed conscience to continue to do God’s will. Yes, this is a huge mess, but I honestly DON’T believe it is God’s will for us to refuse to consider the papal seat empty, if Benedict is not still the Pope, for fear of what might happen next. Not while this heretic is bullying souls to follow him into hell as adulterers and assaulters of the Eucharist.
PS, two questions:
Since the Catholic Church teaches that rejecting even one dogma makes a person a heretic, which cuts them off from the Body of Christ, how can someone who cut themselves off from the Body of Christ, be its HEAD?
Do you agree that this latest confirmation in-writing by Francis, makes it clear he has gone against the dogmatic teachings of Trent on Marriage and the Eucharist?
The same way the President of the USA can trample the Constitution into the mud and still be the President until he is i-m-p-e-a-c-h-e-d by Congress.
Many people have done heavy lifting. I love what the SSPX could be, but I also see the writing on the wall with Bp Fellay leading the SSPX charge….I think a lot of people who are not of my persuasion see it as well. Also my friend, this isnt Yahoo….no need for the juvenile insults…all of us who post here have a common goal.
Okay, I just found an answer to my own questions in the Salza and Siscoe book on this topic, –the section linked below on judging a pope.
The way I now understand it is, a pope CAN only be judged by inferiors in the case of heresy, however he cannot be judged by individuals not in authority in the Church. (that is usurpation)
So, If it get this correctly, we can go on denouncing the known contradictions between dogma and what he is teaching that harms souls, but cannot pass any official judgment about his position as Pope.
That must be done by the hierarchy, whom we should continue to press urgently to do so.
http://www.trueorfalsepope.com/p/part-ii-can-church-judge-heretical-pope.html
Thank you, that’s a short-form of what I’ve written just below, isn’t it? 🙂
I agree with you 100%. Bp Fellay though, as ive opined several times on this blog, is a POLITICIAN; for whatever reason the material world still has a hold on him. As it stands, he is trying to play both sides of the fence….as all politicians do. He is in a very powerful position and as such he will be held that much more accountable. The SSPX needs to officially denounce rome once and for all and let the chips fall where they may.
“Many people have done heavy lifting. I love what the SSPX could be…” -Yahoo Worthy
SMH….what if bergoglio said tomorrow that Christ wasnt God???? Would we need the corrupt “hierarchy” to rule that he is a heretic even then???? We need to start using our heads a little bit. Heresy is heresy regardless of how blatant we deem it to be. The problem is that the collective knowledge of what is right and wrong is SO UTTERLY weak by almost all Catholics that it would take something like a “Christ is not God” proclamation to actually wake most Catholics up. The degenerate nature of amoris laetitia went over the heads of 99% of so called Catholics in this world.
How can a pope be impeached? Obviously thats an impossibility, but yet someone here actually suggested this totally non-Catholic idea. Apparently this person regards the Vicar of Christ on earth as somehow being on the same level as a secular man-elected official. Seriously? Are we now equating cardinals to members of the US senate/house? Good grief.
In a Church where dialogue replaces evangelization, opinions of clergymen will replace the Gospel…in my opinion.
I wish we could stand up like this… 🙂
http://video.foxnews.com/v/5122887966001/larry-gatlin-sings-musical-message-to-hillary-clinton/?#sp=show-clips
“The SSPX needs to officially denounce rome once and for all and let the chips fall where they may.” -Yahoo Worthy
The Salza/Siscoe book has lately taken many severe public beatings from sedes and non-sede resignationists alike, including Fr Kramer, for its shoddy theology and bad logic.
It’s good to read both sides of important issues. I understand that it’s easier to stick with their side, and not go into the unchartered territory of their opponents, but one would do well to have a good look at both positions without bias.
The US president analogy is invalid.
Public heresy is incompatible with membership in the Church. There are no ifs or buts about it.
One cannot hold office in the Church when he is not a member of the Church. It’s Divine Law.
Wow, Louie, you’re a pretty important guy…and from my very own hurting diocese. I will pray that you stay under Our Lady’s Mantle in all that you do, for all that you do for us. She’s our only Hope, Our Ark, Our Safety. Keep Her close in your heart. Wear your Scapular. Say your Rosary…you will be fine.
Some people will latch onto anything.
Anything – even if it includes adopting novel and non-Catholic ideas that go against the Magisterium – as long as one is not labeled with that nasty “S” word.
So is the “Bad Dad” argument.
Rich,
I partially agree with you. We can tell what heresy is, and I didn’t need Amoris to know that we’ve been hearing it out of Rome for years. It has also occurred to me that St. Bellarmine did not believe a Pope would ever fall into heresy, and may have held different opinions had he experienced what we have now.
For me, it comes down to speaking the truth to save souls, and I can do that by denouncing the falsehoods AND presenting the traditional teachings on authority that I’ve learned here, without myself declaring who is Pope and who is not. I really don’t see much difference between Benedict and Francis these days, with Benedict gleefully rejoicing and praising God for him.
All this division and frustration is getting us nowhere fast, so I see it as wisdom to back off on the Papal aspect, and leave it in God’s hands to help us.
Sorry if you don’t respect that, but it’s what seems most reasonable to me right now.
God Bless.
It is likely the impeachment analogy wasn’t meant to be applied that closely. It took it as merely a reminder that some things are, by law reserved to certain authoritative bodies, and others are legitimately taken into “civilian” hands.
There is still the problem of what to do when those who are so empowered, fail to act justly…
It’s not so hard to see how we get into these divisions of ideas on what to do about all this. I am praying for God’s help for all of us.
I don’t have a definitive answer to your question, The Papal Subject. However, if B16 and Bergoglio died on the same day, I would hope that the Cardinals would take this as a sign from God to elect a Pope who had enough Catholic sense to turn the Barque of Peter around away from the icebergs. Could the Church return to pre-Vatican II days? Perhaps this is the period of peace Our Lady of Fatima referred to if Her requests are obeyed. In the meantime, we must struggle daily to be aka Catholic during these difficult times.
The Sedes have one thing in common, their maturity level and brain power are Yahoo Worthy.
Pay attention rich, even you should be able to understand the following:
When a President is forced out of office, it is called impeachment.
When a Pope is forced out of office, it is called being deposed.
Nobody is equating a Pope with a President. Nobody said a Cardinal is the same thing as a US Congressman. You said that Bishop Fellay was a politician. You’re all over the place. Why do you make these irrational claims?
Your Siamese twin, papal subject, makes the same irrational leaps. “One cannot hold office in the Church when he is not a member of the Church, It’s Divine Law”. Guess what, the Cardinals elected a Pope using the approved procedures. That Pope is the Pope until he quits or a Council throws him out. There is nothing you can do about it. You guys are truly Yahoo Worthy.
I am in total agreement. As a longstanding member of an SSPX parish, I am scandalized and dismayed to observe the lack of prudence and charity from this leader. He has done great damage to the morale of the entire Society and has expelled some of the very best priests who questioned his intentions regarding the insidious “Preamble” of 2012. His actions have, indeed, led to a serious crisis within the congregations of the SSPX itself and he is to blame.
You seem to have only venom for those who hold a different opinion. If you want to pursuade others, try showing some Christian charity and accepting the fact that you may not have all the answers. Your contempt for others is not appropriate here.
Please grow up.
@ rushintuit-You seem to have only venom for those who hold a different opinion. If you want to pursuade others, try showing some Christian charity and accepting the fact that you may not have all the answers. Your contempt for others is not appropriate here.
@ rushintuit- Apparently, I must repeat myself. Your lack of respect is both unchristian and unproductive. Please behave as an adult.
“As a longstanding member of an SSPX parish” -You are a Troll.
Mr Vennari is keeping updated those who’ve contacted him by email. He reports that he’s doing well. You can donate as per his website for Catholic Family News. God bless.
A pope isn’t forced out of office – impossible. Where the substantive and procedural conditions have been met, an imperfect council can declare as a matter of fact that the person in the Office is a formal heretic, and communicate officially to the whole Church the automatic result of that fact, which is that he has fallen from the temporal Office. They can then put in place the procedure for the election of a pope. Obviously, he would not have been Pope in the interior spiritual realm since the moment he became a heretic (which only God can know).
Amen.
It’s is a difficult and confusing time, no doubt about it!
Its funny, but when I attended an SSPX chapel, I foolishly thought to myself, “Ahh, this is what Catholicism must have looked like before Vatican II”. The sentiment only lasted a short moment, before I slapped myself out of a silly nostalgia trip.
The correct understanding then rightly positioned itself in my mind: This is what Catholicism looks like today, right now, in the 21st Century.
So I would not be aloe in arguing that the Church does not need to return to pre-Vatican II days, because the Catholic Church is alive right here and now, unspotted and unchanged, in 2016.
Let’s engage in a thought experiment:
Just say Francis departs this world a year from now. (I hope he lives longer and retracts his heresies, both by word and deed). Benedict lives on for another decade.
The cardinals gather for the conclave. Now, let’s up the ante a bit while we are at it, but keep the principle the same. Say the SSPX are reconciled, and in a gesture of good will on Rome’s part (did I say this was a hypothetical?) +Fellay is made a Cardinal and can take active and passive part in the said Conclave. He is somehow elected Pope.
Now, Benedict is still going strong, and many still think he’s the pope, and the conclave that produced +Fellay as Pope is invalid. Pope Fellay lives for twenty five years. In the meantime, BXVI has died. Would you change horses if something as good as +Fellay becoming Pope came up?
Papal Subject–My only thought about your hypothetical question is: If Fellay (or another Traditional Cardinal) were somehow elected Pope, it would be cause for rejoicing because it would indicate a turn around toward Tradition. However, the rejoicing would only last as long as this new Pope shows himself to be very aggressive against the Modernists who no doubt will remain in the hierarchy. Whether B16 is still alive through this is meaningless for me. He and Bergoglio are two sides of the same coin.
Dear Pearl 87-It saddens me to say that I know of many SSPX parishioners who have not lost their faith in the MISSION of the SSPX, but are very disappointed in the lack of leadership. It appears that Fellay etc. are too distracted by the big picture while neglecting serious concerns within their chapels and schools. The allure of the “smells and bells” cannot compensate when the congregation witnesses situations which must be firmly addressed by the SSPX hierarchy. Please do not misunderstand. Having access to the TLM and the Traditional Sacraments cannot ever be underestimated. However, I fear that what may be considered minor disappointments could eventually grow to disillusionment and lack of enthusiasm for this Priestly Society. Pearl87, you have a right to express these concerns in this respectful manner. If you’re a TROLL–so am I!
Odd – I have also been a long time SSPX chapel attendee and been to SSPX chapels in 5 countries…and yet I have never heard anyone talking like that. Nor have I heard any specific evidence from any of the 1% of “resistance” internet members (most of whom also descend to infighting ironically) on what exactly the SSPX has done wrong.