For some time now we have been hearing about the so-called “Francis Effect” whereby the Catholic Church is allegedly on the verge of experiencing that oh-so-elusive “New Springtime.”
In an article written last September, Archbishop William Lori of Baltimore put it this way:
“There’s no doubt about it. Pope Francis has captured the attention of the church and the world … by a simplicity and humility that has earned him the nickname, ‘the world’s parish priest,’ but also by taking the church back to the basics.”
He went on to say that the Holy Father’s “unique approach to his ministry has signaled a new tone and given fresh hope to many, including those active in the faith and those no longer participating in the life of the church.”
Francis fever has even taken hold of some in the Roman Curia as well.
In a New Year’s Eve interview with Vatican Radio, Monsignor John Kennedy, an official at the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, suggested that Pope Francis “has made a lot of people return to their faith in a new way… there’s a lot more people present at Mass.”
While this may sound perfectly wonderful, it’s really nothing more than the latest manifestation of the post-conciliar delusion wherein prelates wax optimistic even as the Church marches unabated along the path of self- destruction.
According to the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life:
“Between Francis’ election in March and the end of October  … the percentage of Americans who identify as Catholics has remained the same … and self-reported levels of Mass attendance have remained virtually unchanged since the new pope was elected. Since April of this year, 39 percent of US Catholics report attending Mass at least weekly, similar to the 40 percent attendance figure last year.”
Now, that’s not to say that this pontificate is having no impact on Catholic life at all, mind you; it certainly is, it’s just difficult to measure at this point.
So, what is the real Francis Effect?
Anecdotal, I know, but based on conversations I’ve had with clergy and laity alike, this is my take.
Thanks to Francis, certain leftward leaning clerics are:
- Feeling justified in their failure to condemn immorality
- Feeling encouraged not to bother preaching sound doctrine
- Ratcheting-up the focus on social justice
- Emboldened to speak more supportively of the homosexual agenda
- More determined than ever to kick pastoral authority to parish councils
- Dismissing traditional concerns out of hand with increasing hostility
Among more “conservative” hierarchs, who are not properly considered traditional, some are:
- Growing impatient with the confusion coming from Rome
- Weary of having to defend the pope’s questionable statements
- Ignoring the pope as much as possible
- Finding themselves increasingly challenged by liberal laity who now feel emboldened
- Apprehensive about appearing too authoritarian or doctrinally and liturgically “rigid”
Among left leaning laity, some are:
- Strutting about as though their stock has risen considerably relative to the Benedictine days
- More confident in their power to influence parish life
- Even less inclined to acknowledge the deficiencies of Protestantism and non-Christian religions
- Growing ever more hostile to tradition
As for traditional Catholics, well… you can poke around this blog and discover far more than I can relate in a series of bullet points.
While none of what has been mentioned thus far is to be taken lightly, it pales in comparison to the impact a lengthy Franciscan pontificate would likely have on the life of the Church.
In my estimation, should Francis reign for five years or more, we can expect to see:
- That new wave of traditional seminarians almost entirely replaced with a bumper crop of would-be Peace Corp volunteers and social workers
- A Church mired in bureaucratic disarray with no clear voice of authority
- Novus Ordo Masses devolving back into 1970’s style “liturgical performance art” as choreographed according to the demands of committees
- Even fewer males in our parishes
- Interest in tradition increasing in step with hostility toward it
- Something even more disturbing than the Assisi gatherings
Horrifying though all of this may be, if Monsignor Kennedy is correct, we may have reached a point of no return.
According to him, no matter how long Francis reigns, our new Holy Father is already “the standard by which future Popes are going to be measured.”
It’s time to start counting those Rosaries, folks.
I’ve been counting them for alomst a year now…staying close to our Mother. And while your list is probably right, I’m not sure I’d be the same man after another 4+ years like this.
As the many in the church are already seeing, and not understanding why the younger generations are attracted to tradition, albeit small, the revolution is underway. We’ve finally seen and tasted the authentic faith, you can keep your kumbaya, touchy religion. Unlike our parents and grandparents, we’re not gonna let you rob us again. Say what you want about pope Benedict, but summorum pontificum woke up a sleeping giant.
Francis is creating a “one size fits all” Church—-not a truly Catholic Church. He does not believe in the Certitude of Catholic Dogma. He is a very dangerous “nice guy”. He doesn’t have a clue that he is (or supposed it be) the Vicar of Christ. How will the Church recover? Only Our Lady can help us now.
I understand where you’re coming from, but I think that the traditionalist movement has much to gain even from this time of confusion. It is becoming ever more clear that the Catholic Faith itself is at stake, and I expect to see a significant growth in the numbers of traditional laity, religious, seminarians, and priests, as well as a growth in their honest, penetrating critiques of the situation and their unanimity in confronting it. That is, sometimes it’s the worst that brings out the best, and while we shouldn’t encourage the worst (it’s far better to have peace and stability), nevertheless in our increasingly chaotic situation, there will be less and less doubt about who the opposed armies are, what they are fighting over, and how high the stakes are.
Good insights here, especially from a Catholic. I’ll be frank. Catholicism is a false religion. It’s too developed and enmeshed in mysticisms (your Rosarie beads are a good example), the dead, mother goddess worship – essentially it is based on Mithraism and Babylonian sun-god worship. It is an apostate organisation. And you are currently led by a false prophet no less (I will refrain from capitalising those words for now). You are now blind and being led by the blind. You have millennia of “doctrines of men” confounding your worship and truly lost your way. The message is a simple one – it’s about Yaweh and Yaheshua. It’s not about ecumenisms; it’s not about Mother Mary worship; it’s not about perpetual re-crucifixion of Jesus every Sunday; it’s not about Rosaries; it’s not about shrines to the dead; it’s not about doctrinal law; it’s not about confessing sins to earthly priests; it’s not about etc., etc.. It’s not even about your “Catholic Faith”. There is no one single faith that reigns supreme over the blood of Yaheshua. Not Catholic, not Orthodox, not any – they are all doctrines of men. You must be born again. That is the essence to salvation. Everything else is an abomination. There are so many signs that the Catholic institution (not the lay but the hierarchy) are anti-Christian; worse, Satanic. There is only one High Priest who has done away with the priesthood for good. Their is only one way to the Father and that is through the Son: not through man-made religion. So come out of her my people.
I am worried that you are not being led just up the garden path, but down a bottomless pit.
As Yaweh lives and in the name of Yaheshua
Lol listen to this troll. There is only one High Priest who as done away with the priesthood for good. Only a heretic blasphemer can say something so illogical and stupid without recognizing the contradiction. Get lost you satanic filth.
I am grateful to this pope for one reason. His perse-
caution of the FFI prompted me to check out the
closest Latin Mass to me which I attend now as often
as I can.I attend a respectful N.O. parish, but
have started receiving Communion on the tongue.
But I can’t even begin to describe how angry I
am at Francis. I am a post-abortive convert to
the faith (10 years ago) My husband, an agnostic, says that
according to Francis –his good will and adherence
to his conscious will get him into heaven–if there
Truly I wonder if Benedict is still pope and Francis
uncanonically elected. Maybe that’s just wishful
Never felt so lost in my faith.
prot bob. Our Lady is leading you to the One, True, Faith as we speak. you didn’t show up here by mistake. Read Fulton Sheen’s Life of Christ and say a Hail Mary, full of Grace, the Lord is with thee.
Blessed art thou amongst women,
and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus.
Holy Mary, mother of God,
pray for us sinners, now,
and at the hour of our death, Amen.
p.s. read Louie’s exegesis on the wedding feast at Cana.
Catholicism is the reason any of us have heard of Our Lord.
Kim – that’s the best of the Francis effect – it’s as if the conciliar eclipse that has been creeping for fifty years is now total, so it’s by Faith we are being led out of this darkness into the Light of the still living One, True, Faith.
God bless and keep you.
If you feel confused by the words and actions of Pope Francis, read the prophecies of Maria Divine Mercy. If you love Pope’s humility, mercy and openness – read the prophecies too.
Schism in the Church
The visionary gives a shocking information: Pope Francis is the FALSE PROPHET, he is member of masonry and his aim is to destroy the Catholic Church from within. The False Prophet has been foretold in the book of Revelation (chapter 13th). The destruction of the Church is to be done at first in a subtle way, through change of teachings of Jesus Christ, in such a way, so that sin becomes accepted. After that he will change the meaning of Sacraments and the words used during Sacraments and text of the Holy Mass. People will be asked to say a new oath, to show their faithfulness to the Church. This oath will be great spiritual danger.
The last stage will be creating One World Religion. New religion will unite all other religion, including atheists. New religion will accept the things, which are regarded as sin in Catholic Church. This will lead to schism in the Church, as part of the priests will refuse to accept the new rules. Those who refuse to accept new Church will be excommunicated and will have to gather and pray in hidden places.
False Prophet will destroy the Sacraments
Jesus Christ warns: “The Sacraments will be the first to be destroyed, then the Mass, then the Bible and all traces of God’s Words. During these times, many will fight to proclaim the Word of God. It will be during these times that My Graces will be poured everywhere, through the Power of the Holy Spirit, so that God is never forgotten.” (21st July 2013)
Many people appreciate Pope’s openness to the world, speaking about poverty and his merciful attitude. He also creates great confusion and distrust among faithful Catholics by his statements. Statements which need to be corrected and explained by Vatican or by religious commentators. Some of the statements contradict Holy Scripture – Pope claimed that in case of atheists the just doing good will grant people entering Heaven, whereas it is faith in Jesus Christ and repentance for sins that are the most important. Pope gives the falsified version of Jesus Christ teachings, without the need of faith nor repentance.
Pope Francis also stated very clearly that Jesus Christ was a sinner, which is blasphemy. Jesus Christ has never become a sinner. Vatican Radio quotes these words of Pope Francis (15th June 2013):
“What is reconciliation? Taking one from this side, taking another one for that side and uniting them: no, that’s part of it but it’s not it … True reconciliation means that God in Christ took on our sins and He became the sinner for us. When we go to confession, for example, it isn’t that we say our sin and God forgives us. No, not that! We look for Jesus Christ and say: ‘This is your sin, and I will sin again’. And Jesus likes that, because it was his mission: to become the sinner for us, to liberate us. ”
Do you really believe that Jesus Christ likes that you will sin again?
Google “FALSE PROPHET WARNING SECOND COMING” and find out more.
p.s. prot bob, The Son instituted the Eucharist as the Way to the Father. Read John 6. as one priest wrote, can’t remember who, one of the saddest lines in the bible is, ‘and they turned away and followed Him no more.’ they were basically the first protestants.
Kate: bishop bergoglio is a curious papal specimen, it wouldn’t be a stretch to believe he might be batting for team apostasy.
pray, penance, pray, and let’s keep praying Our Lord saves us from being deceived, and that the few good men batting for team Truth are given faith that can move mountains.
God bless and keep you in his mercy.
“And while your list is probably right, I’m not sure I’d be the same man after another 4+ years like this.”
Sometimes I muse, imagine another JPII pontificate for 26 years. Ouch. Thankfully God in his mercy will soon put an end to this madness.
Kate MDM may be correct on some points, who knows anything seems possible from this point onward. Saying that she should be totally condemned (a bishop in Melbourne already has done it), traditional Catholic theology teaches that demons can prophesy correctly so a few of her messages may come true but with false prophets more often than not their prophecies will fail as in MDM’s case.
Last night I (sadly) had an argument with a priest whom I respect greatly but who surprised me by insisting that to be Catholic I must I agree with whatever Pope Francis says. To do otherwise is to separate myself from God. When I made the point that Pope Pius IX gave his full approbation to The True Infallibility of the Popes by Archbishop Fessler (the Cardinal Secretary of the First Vatican Council) which observes that popes can and have erred in their ordinary teaching the priest told me to “throw the book away”. Further, he insisted that we must give our full assent to whatever Pope Francis says that may contradict what an earlier pope has said.
This from a priest who has a great love for Aristotlean-Thomist philosophy. It seems to me that we are not just going through a crisis of faith but a crisis of reason in which the principle of non-contradiction is being trampled underfoot.
Pay no attention to that priest. He is a fake Thomist. Any real disciple of St. Thomas understands that no pope has authority to teach error. And certainly no serious scholar would ever ask you to throw a book, with an imprimatur from Pope Pius IX, into the dust bin.
I would bet this priest of yours is itching to break his vows, and so has hitched the wagon of his desires upon Bergoglio…
Of course, the admonition to throw away a book that Pius IX praised as accurately interpreting the Catholic doctrine of infallibility suggests that the late Pope was therefore in error to approve the assertion that the popes can and have erred in their ordinary magisterium!
I don’t want to do anything to reveal the identity of the priest, but he is the last person you can imagine breaking his vows. A venerable old man. For me it just shows how even the good priests have been confused by the chaos of the last few decades.
Our Lady of LaSalette said the Church would be in eclipse.
The longer-version of the St. Michael prayer says this:
“These most crafty enemies have filled and inebriated with gall and bitterness the Church, the spouse of the immaculate Lamb, and have laid impious hands on her most sacred possessions. In the Holy Place itself, where the See of Holy Peter and the Chair of Truth has been set up as the light of the world, they have raised the throne of their abominable impiety, with the iniquitous design that when the Pastor has been struck, the sheep may be.”
The Chair of Peter has been under an ongoing attack for the past 50+ years.
The Church has been undergoing Her Passion. If we are the remnant, we must stay faithful to the True Faith, the Faith of 2,000 years and the Mass that the devil despises. We have the assurance that the Church will triumph in the end. In the meantime, stay faithful!
Jonathan Hart: What authority do you have to say what is true and what is false? To my knowledge, after researching extensively, the only authority with jurisdiction to do so, has not condemned the messages of MDM. There is nothing wrong with reading, believing and sharing the messages of MDM.
To Steve from a different Steve:
You are absolutely correct, as well as Kate.
The key for those who concern themselves that perhaps MDM might be false is this: take her out of the picture and what do you get? Plenty of heresy and outright blasphemy (i.e; Francis claiming that Our Lady at the Foot of the Cross was questioning whether God lied to Her or not).
So while we do not need MDM to tell us Francis is the imposter, all we have to do is look at his actions and words.
In fact, how is that Francis is getting away with not using a Vatican passport as a Head of State? Instead, he insisted on renewing his regular Argentine passport. This is insanity and a clear indication that the man wants no more privileges given to ANY occupant of the Throne of Peter, which he has, in effect, dethroned by action and words. And yet, the Catholic world is deadly silent when we should be clamoring for his removal.
And Jonathan, I always find it amazing that people want to claim that someone like MDM could be a demon in disguise when, if you would have the courage to, one could only find prayers that no demon would ever espouse any human being to say. They are prayers specifically designed to save souls at this time.
Something Bergoglio does not seem capable of doing.
So who is the real demon in disguise?
MDM has already been exposed as a fraud.
Old Jock said: It seems to me that we are not just going through a crisis of faith but a crisis of reason in which the principle of non-contradiction is being trampled underfoot.
I’m applauding, this is a fact.
p.s. thanks Joe for the link showing the face behind the fad. never trust dancers who hide behind veils.
And Tom you are a fool. High priest as opposed to earthly priesthood – the earthly priesthood has been annulled.
I thank you for being civil and quoting scripture as opposed to Catholic doctrine:
– Your lady is NOT leading me to anything – God through Jesus is leading me.
– Perhaps I did not show up by mistake. Perhaps I was sent here (only God knows that). But perhaps your understanding of why I was sent is mistaken.
– I only hail God in the name of Jesus.
– Catholic exegeses, catechisms, etc. – these are men’s philosophies. Let’s stick to scripture.
– “Catholicism” in the true sense of the word may be the reason we have heard of our Lord; “Roman Catholicism” however is not.
– The Eucharist and wine is symbolic, as Jesus clearly points out, not some metaphysical reality as presupposed by the RCC – no priest needed.
– The one’s that turned away did so because their hypocrisy was exposed – they believed not! Jesus tested them and they were found wanting.
May God bless all true believers and give insight and understanding to all…
In Jesus’ name
prot bob (‘scuse the nickname, just like the assonance)
at the very last of John 6 – they turn away because they cannot handle what the Church later called ‘transubstantiation.’ Our Lord was not poeticising when He spoke of His body being true food. in the Greek the actual word means to chew, to masticate. It’s a mystery and it’s a fact all in one, but this is what Our Lord meant when He said, ‘I will be with you until the close of the age.’ He meant in an actual physical reality ongoing. And this Presence is brought about through the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass – from the rising of the sun to the setting of the same, this is that Sacrifice – we are made present at Calvary.
there’s a reason the two chaps commiserating on the road to Emmaus only recognised the Risen Lord in the ‘breaking of the bread’.
As for the Mother of God, ‘full of grace’, the woman vouchsafed with the incarnation of God – there’s a book called ‘Queen Mother: A Biblical Theology of Mary’s Queenship’, by Edward Sri.
p.s. it would seem it would be way easier if we could do away with the priesthood, but this isn’t what Our Lord wanted. He appointed Apostles and he appointed from amongst them the first Pope – St Peter. Melkitzadek – foreshadowed with his bread and wine with Abraham, the sacrificial priesthood established by Our Lord which has its foundations in the Aaronic Priesthood of the Jews.
Anyway – Christ exhorted us to seek, ask, and knock. God bless, as this, we can agree, we are trying to do.
p.s. when Christ says you must ‘eat’ My flesh, the Greek is grittily specific – this is the actual word I was talking about and it means to chew His flesh.
p.s.s. Stephen K. Ray is a good Catholic Apologist – a protestant who ‘crossed the Tiber’.
Christ appointed no priests. Sacrifices where done away with. The curtain to the inner sanctum was rent. It was finished. The Apostle Peter was but one (“a” NOT “the”) early church father, whom the Roman Catholic Church later seized upon to justify their self-proclaimed entitlement to a “supreme” church.
Indeed, if one is to argue who is the earliest of church fathers after Christ’s ascension, it would be James his brother who was agreed upon (by Peter and John) to be the “Bishop of Jerusalem” and of the united (i.e. “Catholic”) churches.
Slowly, for one reason or another (and probably mostly political) the “Bishop” of Rome began to gain some sort of ascendancy over all the churches. There were no Popes. The Bishop was a titular title to oversee rather than to rule. The Papacy came into existence much later, again as the politics of the Roman Empire, East & West, played out – essentially thanks to, again self-ordained, “Pontifex Maximus” Constantine – that is when the “Roman Catholic” and “Orthodox” churches, and the Papacy, came into being (300-400 AD). At this time there where two heads of the church – Greek (Eastern) where the Emperor (Constantine) was “Pope”, and the Western “Roman” Church where the Pope was “Emperor”! The papacy is nothing less than a type of the Nicolaitians of which Jesus also hates (Rev 2:6). The modern day RCC has become like the Pharisees, full of man-made laws and regulations and creeds etc..
The passage from death to life, is through Jesus Christ our Lord, not the door of a church denomination. (John 10:9) “I am the door”
You cannot claim passage to eternal life through your denomination (e.g. my “Catholic Faith” or “I’m Protestant”) – this is deception. We are all each individually accountable. We don’t get to the Father except through Jesus – the Word and the Door. Why would you let anyone get in the way of that?
You – Jesus – God (why put a third person between you and God when Jesus has expressly said not to).
Trusting your denomination as infallible and perfect is spiritual immaturity and ignorance. And it’s potentially damnable. (1 John 2:27): by the anointing you have received of him abideth in you (i.e. the Holy Spirit) “need not that any man teach you”; but the “Holy Ghost”… he shall teach you all things (John 14:26).
No priests, no bishops, no Popes needed. They just get in the way of the relationship between YOU and GOD via JESUS alone. (John 3:36; John 8:24).
The Pope is a political position. One just has to watch how the Pope operates to see that. The Roman Catholic Church is a paganised lie and a deception of a true “Catholic church” which was and is simply the body of believers who have repented of their sins and surrendered their lives to Jesus Christ as Lord. 1 Cor 1:10-12.
The word Papa means Father. But Matthew 23:9 says the only Father is God. It’s actually blasphemous and pagan to be a Roman Catholic I’m afraid. (Acts 14:14-15).
And the oft but totally erroneously passage quoted by RCC fellows (Matthew 16:18) was a self-reflexive statement made by Jesus (he was not referring to Peter as the rock).
Jesus is ALIVE. But can I remind you, Mary is dead. She may be Jesus’ mother, but she is still dead. The dead are dead and hear no more until the day of the resurrection of the dead. Jesus is already resurrected as the First Fruits. Show me the passage in the bible that says that Mary is resurrected or in heaven.
Pagan rituals: Rosarie beads; Sunday worship; Re-crucifixion every Sunday under some false transubstantiation dogma.
Historical inconsistencies and blasphemies: indulgences; persecutions and inquisitions; infallibility
Why does the Papal Mitre look like Daggon the fish-god of Babylonian worship? Why is his sceptre crooked? Why the upside down cross (and don’t give me the crucifixion of Peter argument); why are cathedrals built on cemeteries.
Shall I go on…
God is God of the living. The RCC has an obsession with the dead!
In Jesus’ name
Not to mention all the pagan upon pagan rituals and incantations within the RCC. It’s pure debasement of the free and open biblical passages for a relationship with Christ.
In Jesus’ name
There are just far too many inconsistencies, inadequacies, historical irregularities and blasphemies in most “churches” for one to be willing to literally bet with their life on. (By their fruits you shall know them).
It’s just you, Yaheshua and God. And no-one (and I mean no-one) should get in the way of that. We all should read more scripture and read less dogma (myself included).
All praise be to the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob
As Yaweh lives
In Jesus’ name
the early Fathers at the Council of Carthage made a closed Canon in 419 – 46 OT books and 27 NT books, and all this on the heels of the Arian heresy! through the careful – Holy Ghost inspired – keeping of the Tradition handed down by the Apostles – the Church is supernatural but She also lives in history as we poor mortals do. Not one of those who closed the Canon would have even considered a church without sacrificial priests – such an idea requires an total revisionism of the Tradition and History of the Church from the Incarnation. I don’t believe Christ hid the Light of His True Church under a bushel for 1500 years, but I do think that satan his trying to have a last fling with the Bride before the Bridegroom comes.
God bless and keep you in His Mercy.
old jock, you might like this, certainly your old pastor might benefit from it:
Saluto: You are going back to “Councils” of men again… By this time apostasy was blossoming! Stick with scripture. There was no hiding; the true church (the body of Christ) was suppressed within the RCC of the bloody Roman Empire. No hiding. It was suppressed and has been through the years. You must be born again: only then will the blind see.
which came first, the Apostles or the NT?
unless one is born again of water and Holy Ghost = baptism = sacrament
unless you eat my flesh = Holy Communion = sacrament
those sins you forgive are forgiven = confession = sacrament
into you I give the keys of the Kingdom of Heaven…what ye loose…what ye bind = ordination = sacrament
I would for your sake bob that so many priests hadn’t been overcome with pew-envy, and that Paul VI and a wretched mortal called Bugnini had just decided to become masons and leave the Church alone, but what would be the point of masons if there wasn’t a Church to corrupt.
I pray God leads to a true and orthodox parish and priest so that can you can receive the sacraments Christ intended for us in His One True Church.
p.s. you have alot of passion for the Truth and saving souls. don’t how old you are, presume you are bob the bloke; have you considered seminary?
here are some good solid Fathers:
Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.
“Unless one is born again of water and Holy Ghost = baptism = sacrament”
Born of the spirit = spiritual baptism = metaphor for being ‘washed’ by the Word and the cleansed by the ‘Blood” and receiving the Holy Spirit.
I know you don’t know what you are saying when you say the sacrament of baptism is ‘rubbish’;
DIY salvation, bob, you don’t need a saviour if it’s all a metaphor – hang on – heresy – but then if scripture fell out Luther’s backside when he farted at the pope then there’s no such thing as heresy. by the way St Peter, 2nd letter (encyclical) warns us not try an interpret scripture on our own – that letter I know for a fact wasn’t farted out of Luther’s nethers, and nor was the rest. History bob – you had a mother and a father – God tends to make a point of working our salvation through flesh and blood – matter – sacraments. Christ mingled His spit with mud to cleanse someone of their blindness.
p.s. ‘scuse my crudeness, but Luther was a really crude guy – the protestant progenitor of the new age – and the one who tampered with scripture that seemed too Catholic. there’s a lot to learn, start with the sign of the Cross – another thing bugnini wanted to throw away.
Kyrie eleison, Christe eleison, Kyrie eleison
Sadly, I too have met so many priests, who are one thing in public, another in private….in recent years nearly 100% of priests I meet are like that…
Where has integrity gone….?
Dear P Bobby,
Saint Polycarp disagrees with you
Saint Ignatius of Antioch disagrees with you
Saint Clement disagrees with you
Saint Irenaus disagrees with you
Saint Justin Martyr disagrees with you
Saint Basil Disagrees with you
Saint Athanasius disagrees with you
Saint Augustine disagrees with you
Saint Ambrose disagrees with you
Saint Jerome disagrees with you
Saint John Chrysostom disagrees with you
I just quoted the first 400 years of christianity for you. People who shed their blood for the beliefs you attack. Maybe you ought to read their writings and stop attacking the one true faith
This one always wears a soutan and is a member of a priestly order that is associated with orthodoxy.
So, it was a shock to hear that if I didn’t unconditionally assent to whatever the present Pope teaches then I am not a Catholic.
Who did they receive their Sainthoods from?
What you quoted Joe, was 400 years of blasphemy, not Christianity. Fool and viper that you are.
23 Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,
2 Saying The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat:
3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.
4 For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men’s shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.
5 But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments,
6 And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues,
7 And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi.
8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.
9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.
11 But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.
12 And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.
13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
14 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows’ houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.
15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.
Haha. Read their writings… Why don’t you read the bible, Satan.
Something about not one jot or one title comes to mind Joe. But you read your “Saints” writings. Fool.
Like I have said from the beginning. Quote scripture Catholics…. don’t quote your rehashed dogma. If you can’t quote scripture best to can it.
“Let’s all get together and quote to ourselves the patriarchs”. Oh yeh, that will save you. Chinse whispers along the millennia. Look at your satanic church hierarchy before you tell me to read the rubbish that YOUR Saints put out.
You are all LOST if you believe the putrid filth that emanates from the jaws of the RCC and your Cardinal Imbroglio.
Do yourselves a big favour. Take some time out, away from your Catholic material and spend time just reading scripture; and ask the Holy Spirit to declare the scriptures to you. And just do it for 3-6 months and see what you come up with. You have nothing to lose…
Who put the bible together silly? Christians have always believed that way. Brb, ignoring Saint Polycarp, disciple of Saint John the beloved disciple. Yeah, because you know more than them. You have 2000 years of scriptures, tradition and history against you.
salute: I am no fan of Luther’s
And you have 2000 years of tradition against you.
And most of the rest are Romanised Catholic canonised Saints…. wonder why?
You believe what Imbroglio tells you and I’ll believe what Jesus tells me.
Still waiting for you to quote scripture Joe….
You’ve said a bit but most of it is just RCC huff and puff.
Oh that’s right, they prefer you don’t read scripture in the RCC.
Vipers. Harlots. Whores.
RCC wouldn’t know Jesus if they tripped over him.
Oh, here we go… let’s kill him again this Sunday. Fools.
Apostate, ignorant, sadistic fools.
Saint Ignatius of Antioch
Saint Clement disagrees with you
Saint Irenaus disagrees with you
Saint Justin Martyr disagrees with you
Saint Basil Disagrees with you
Saint Athanasius disagrees with you
Saint Augustine disagrees with you
Saint Ambrose disagrees with you
Saint Jerome disagrees with you
Saint John Chrysostom disagrees with you
Maybe. But Jesus agrees with me.
Who put the bible together? When the bible was put together, no-one had access to a bible so they couldn’t argue with the church. It took at least another thousand years for people to get their hands on the Book. And ever since there has been a growing realisation that institutionalised churches are sick!
here’s a couple you might of skipped over, Malachi 1-11, Matthew 16-18,19
John 6-54,59, 2 thes 2-15. Jesus didn’t give us a book, he gave us a church who in turn gave us a living tradition, written and spoken
If you are not that keen on reading scripture (and plainly most of you here are not), those of you interested in learning from other than Catholic sources may find this link interesting – it’s from a Karaite Jew (no I am not Jewish) discussing the Hebrew Gospel of Matthew (yes in Hebrew text and likely a copy of a manuscript predating the “original” Greek text, suggesting that the original Gospels were in-fact written in Hebrew and how some of the message may have been “lost in translation” as it were).
Just putting it out there if anyone is interested.
In Jesus’ name
Jesus gave us the church – his church is that of repented, born-again people who turn to him; not wolves in sheep’s clothing like your Imbroglio.
No I didn’t skip over them but thanks for the suggestion. I’m surprised you have heard of them. Shouldn’t you just be quoting Ignatius Loyola or someone of that ilk?
I see why I was sent here. So I could learn something, sure. but so I could provide a catalyst for you guys to open your eyes. Man you are bogged down in millennia of tradition and baggage it’s frightening – it is exactly what Jesus warned against. So I don’t expect you’d know the church Jesus gave us.
I do not believe as many have suggested that your Pope is the antichrist. I do however believe he is the False Prophet of the Book of Revelation. For all your sakes, I hope I’m wrong.
For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
“The floor of hell is paved with the skulls of bishops.”
St. Athanasius, Council of Nicaea, AD 325 attributed.3
As to “Bobby”: you are barking up the wrong tree here, my friend! I am blessed to belong to the Church Our Lord founded and to live the sacramental life so as to come to closer union with Jesus. Deo Gratias!
Good for Magdalene. Let’s hope it works out for you then love.
I’d rather bark up the wrong tree than down the right pit.
The church our Lord founded is the body of Christ of repented born-again souls. If you are part of that then welcome Magdalene.
And who said I was your friend?
If you believe Imbroglio then you are a friend of Satan and no friend of mine.
Sacramental life is a but a part of it. You must be born again:
Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Are you like Nicodemus? Do you still not get it??
What a surprise – a Catholic quoting Councils and “Saints”? No scripture in sight.
Where’s that bible? Oh, the Pope’s standing on it to reach his Mitre.
Magdalene: Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?
If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
In Jesus’ name
i can’t resist.
P Bob. ‘paper’ as we know it, didn’t exist until quite recently. Parchment and vellum, feather and ink, this is how the first words vouchsafed by Tradition were put to writing. The Church carefully copied and re-copied the books of the Bible for 15 centuries until a new fangled thing called the printing press came along. And, before this, the bible was available for anyone to read who entered a Church (Catholic because there were no other churches in the West). It used to be kept chained up so people couldn’t run off with it because the cost a written Bible would be more than Bill Gates would make while blinked he – verrry expensive.) a lack of Latin would be a hindrance because this is how the written Word had been kept in the West. This is why the Church was very visual with beautiful images of the people and stories of Sacred Tradition, because, also until very recently, everybody save a small few were illiterate. A picture is worth a thousand words.
p.s. I checked out john j. parsons karaite site – exactly where does his authority come from? Karaite Jews deny Rabbinical authority (yes folks there is a protestant version of Judaism) and many Messianics make the weirdest claims about the book of the Apocalypse (never written in Hebrew, only Greek, by St John (who made him a saint?)) – the most interesting was the one about the three wise men being secret Jews with a handed down Tradition(?!) from Daniel the Prophet with regards to the Messiah.
Tradition, History, Scripture. They all go together.
p.s. Christ warned against calling another a ‘fool’, he was pretty strict about it.
oops, ‘scuse mushing my interesting ‘claims’ together. While the claims about the Book of Revelation are interesting, the one about the Daniel Tradition is also most interesting.
I think it is time to put P Bobby to bed. He is hijacking your thread.
Good thinking, “Saul”.
Put P Bobby to bed like you do the Words of the Lord. Let’s talk catechisms! Viper.
As a dog returneth to its vomit, so a fool to his folly (and more catechisms).
Can’t handle the truth Saul…
Why do you persecute me Saul?
Classic cult response: The only person here quoting scripture – let’s get rid of him.
Maybe if you had scripture to quote, you wouldn’t be in this predicament – go back to your Councils and Inquisitions – what you do best Saul. Never mind actually awakening from your slumber with the dead.
P Bobby – it’s time to put the bottle away and get some sleep. No one is stopping you from seeking out a priest for baptism and confirmation. My advice, if the priest is an a-Catholic git, be bolshie and force him to give you the sacraments – he does not have the right to refuse (though these days many will try). if you are a lapsed Catholic gone Karaite, peace is only a confession away (there again, if the priest is a git, God isn’t). These are Faith testing times, God Knows; our parents and grandparents haven’t a clue of how testing.
Read Scripture bob, by all means, by for crying out loud read the Fathers who know what it means.
God bless and keep you.
Before you continue, P Bobby, can you tell us how the Bible came into existence?