In response to the changes recently made to the annulment process by Pope Francis, I would suggest that we examine the matter a bit more closely and then take a wait and see approach before drawing any conclusions.
The motu proprio reforming the Code of Canon Law (for the Latin Church), Mitis Iudex Dominus Iesus, is available on the Holy See website in Latin and Italian, Vatican News Service, however, provided an English translation wherein the following seven changes are set forth.
Now, bearing in mind that I do not possess a J.C.D. (Juris Canonici Doctorate) but rather only an S.C. (Sensus Catholicus), let’s walk through these items together one at a time:
- A single judgement in favour of executive nullity: it would appear appropriate to no longer require a double conforming decision in favour of the nullity of the marriage to enable the parties to be able to contract a further canonical marriage, instead considering sufficient the moral certainty reached by the first judge in accordance with the rules of law.
EXAMINE: No longer will an initial judgment of nullity have to be submitted to a “court of second instance” for review and either confirmation or denial; rather, the initial ruling will suffice.
WAIT: Don’t be lulled to sleep by data suggesting that the court of second instance has historically upheld the first ruling in the overwhelming majority of cases. The mere existence of the secondary procedure arguably served to keep sloppiness (and any tendency toward liberal activism) somewhat in check.
SEE: With this built-in system of “checks and balances” thus removed, the chances of an improper judgment becoming final has undoubtedly increased.
- A single judge under the responsibility of the bishop: the constitution of the single judge, in any case clerical, is in the first instance the responsibility of the bishop, who in the pastoral exercise of his judicial power must ensure that the former does not engage in any form of laxity.
EXAMINE: Juridical power will be concentrated in this single judge in an unprecedented way thanks to item 1 above.
WAIT: One can safely assume that this judge will be of like mind with the bishop who appointed him. This is obvious enough, but since we’re now looking at a “single judge,” it is far easier for a given bishop to effectively dictate the mindset and direction of the tribunal.
SEE: Men like Cardinal Reinhard Marx of the Archdiocese of Munich and Freising, who has made no bones about his intent with respect to opening pathways to Communion for the civilly divorced and remarried, will appoint a judge who will rule accordingly; i.e., he isn’t about to appoint a man who thinks like Cardinal Burke.
- The same bishop is the judge: … The bishop in his Church, of which he is constituted pastor and head, is for this reason judge among the faithful entrusted to him. It is hoped, therefore, that in both large and small dioceses the same bishop may offer a sign of the conversion of the ecclesiastical structures, rather than completely delegating the judicial function in matters of marriage to the offices of the curia. This is especially relevant to the shorter procedure, established to resolve the most evident cases of nullity.
EXAMINE: Any bishop that would have otherwise felt the need to constrain the desire to run roughshod over the tribunal’s decision making process, now has a papal mandate to do exactly that.
WAIT: In some dioceses, the notion of “especially” and “most evident” will eventually come to naught, and the matter of obtaining an annulment will revolve around one’s local bishop. In short, what is now a juridical procedure will quickly devolve into an administrative process.
SEE: We can well expect disparity to exist from diocese to diocese, as one bishop’s “laxity” is another bishop’s “mercy.” In other words, getting married and remaining in a “conservative” diocese might just be for life, whereas doing so in an uber-liberal one might be tantamount to entering into a prenuptial agreement wherein the parties are all but guaranteed the ability to retain the unmarried state should things get dicey.
- Short procedure: Indeed, aside from streamlining processes for the declaration of nullity, a form of shorter process is designated – in addition to the current documentary procedure – to be applied in cases in which the alleged nullity of the marriage is supported by particularly clear arguments”. The Holy Father observes that “it does not pass unnoticed that a shorter procedure may endanger the principle of the indissolubility of marriage; for precisely this reason I have required that in such a procedure the judge be the bishop himself who, due to his pastoral office, is with Peter the greatest guarantor of Catholic unity in faith and in discipline”.
EXAMINE: The “documentary process” refers to cases that are black and white; e.g., a previous “marriage” that was conducted by a Justice of the Peace and is therefore null due to lack of form as evidenced by the documents alone. The Holy Father has introduced a new concept; nullity “by particularly clear arguments.”
WAIT: One does well to recall that a majority of the bishops at the Extraordinary Synod of 2014 voted in favor of an article (found in the final relatio) that suggests “a more individualized approach, permitting access in certain situations and with certain well-defined conditions, primarily in irreversible situations and those involving moral obligations towards children who would have to endure unjust suffering. Access to the sacraments might take place if preceded by a penitential practice, determined by the diocesan bishop.”
SEE: It is evidently “particularly clear” to many bishops that the indissolubility of marriage constitutes a sentence of “unjust suffering” upon those who enter into it. These men have been handed justification, by the pope no less, for applying that same heterodox reasoning to the process of granting annulments. In so doing, they can lay claim to upholding the traditional doctrine (which makes the attainment of an annulment necessary), while undermining it entirely.
- Appeal to the Metropolitan See: it would be appropriate to restore the faculty of appeal to the Metropolitan See, since this office of the head of the ecclesiastical province, stable throughout the centuries, is a distinctive sign of the synodality of the Church.
EXAMINE: This appeal is a one-way street for seeking an appeal in cases where nullity is allegedly wrongly denied. There is no process of which I am aware for appealing cases where nullity is allegedly wrongly granted.
WAIT: Decisions rendered, for example, in the Diocese of Peoria under Bishop Jenky (a so-called “conservative”), would be subject to being overturned by the Metropolitan See of the Archdiocese of Chicago under Archbishop Blaise Cupich.
SEE: As Pope Francis appoints more of his own, like Blaise Cupich, to other Metropolitan Sees, the direction in which judgments of nullity will go isn’t exactly a mystery.
- The competence of the Episcopal Conferences: the Episcopal Conferences, which must be above all driven by the apostolic eagerness to reach the lost faithful, are strongly aware of their duty to share in the aforementioned conversion, and fully respect the right of the bishops to organize the judicial power in their own particular Churches. … Along with their proximity to the judge, the Episcopal Conferences, to the extent possible, must ensure just and dignified retribution to tribunal staff, ensuring that the processes are free, since the Church, in a matter so closely linked to the salvation of souls, demonstrates the gratuitous love of Christ by which we have all been saved.
EXAMINE: The word “retribution” above (retribuzione in Italian) is better translated remuneration, or the payment of wages.
WAIT: No one can deny that individual bishops already feel compelled, at least in some measure, to adopt the “group think” of that bureaucratic machine known as their National Episcopal Conference. Here in the United States, and presumably in most other nations as well, this pressure invariably moves ordinaries in a leftward direction.
SEE: This same liberalizing pressure will now come to bear on the annulment process, if for no other reason than one does not do well to bite the hand that feeds them.
- Appeal to the Apostolic See: It is convenient, in all forms, to maintain the appeal to the ordinary Tribunal of the Apostolic See, that is the Roman Rota, respecting an ancient judicial principle, so as to strengthen the bond between the See of Peter and the particular Churches, in any case taking care, in the discipline of such appeal, to limit any abuse of the right, so that it does not jeopardise the salvation of souls.
EXAMINE: The buck stops in Rome, but once again, one notes that this is a one-way appeal in obtaining a judgment in favor of nullity.
WAIT: The mindset of Rome with respect to the matter at hand is obvious enough from the moto proprio presently under discussion. Even so, more clarity still can be gleaned from the words of Cardinal Francesco Coccopalmerio, President of the Pontifical Council for Legislative Texts, the body charged with the task of interpreting the law of the Church.
Speaking to America Magazine last October at the conclusion of the Extraordinary Synod, Cardinal Coccopalmerio said:
Allowing what many synod fathers described as ‘an administrative procedure,’ by which the local bishop can declare the annulment of a marriage ‘for grave and urgent reasons.’ This could happen even in the absence of external evidence or witnesses, when the bishop considers the couple themselves as ‘credible witnesses’ to what was the actual situation in their marriage.
I am very favorable to this third solution; it is often the only way forward … We must adopt the hermeneutics of the pope; we must adapt the procedure to the concrete situation of individuals for grave and urgent reasons.
SEE: In time it will become obvious that the motu proprio has put in place all that is needed to make this “solution” a reality.
CONCLUSION: The timing of the motu proprio’s release was well-calculated in advance.
By publishing the Letter nearly one month before the Synod of Bishops convenes, the Kasperians have been further emboldened to press forward without fear; with their adversaries put on notice that this pope intends to get what he wants, no doubt the full court press to recruit votes in favor of “pastoral practices” that will cause doctrines to fall like dominoes has shifted into overdrive.
In short, this motu proprio represents the formal beginning of that process whereby the indissolubility of marriage will be undermined in a way that allows the “reformers” to claim adherence to tradition, even as they set in motion its undoing.
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**********Breaking News******************
The 1983 code of canon exposed:
https://www.scribd.com/doc/215689626/Canon-Law-Catastrophe
Logical Thinking
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What was the meme that was advanced in the lead-up to the 2014 Synod? The alleged scandal of the divorced and remarried without benefit of annulment “being driven to the peripheries of the Church” by “cruel rigorists” who were “full of judgment and devoid of mercy”.
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Note, I do not recall a significant questioning of the annulment procedure before the synod. It would seem the two most important questions that could be raised about the pre-existing annulment procedures are: (1) The procedures are BURDENSOME and EXPENSIVE, and cause couples who could have their invalid marriages annulled to forego the process. (2) The procedures result in INCORRECT decisions where marriages that were in fact NULL were being upheld as VALID by judges thus forcing Catholics to contract second marriages outside the Church. Does anyone recall any discussion of this topic in the lead-up to the first synod?
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Regarding these two questions above, my own recollection regarding question (2) is the experience in the US – the procedures were significantly liberalized after VII with the likely result that many marriages that were, in fact, valid were being held null. So, at least in the US, the problem in the US isn’t incorrect decisions in favor of validity, but incorrect decisions in favor of nullity.
If BURDENSOME AND EXPENSIVE procedures or INCORRECT annulment decisions under the regime in place BEFORE these motu proprios were NOT a problem, then those who contracted second marriages outside the Church were destroying valid first marriages that could NEVER be annulled. Viewed from this perspective these Motu Propios should be viewed as a “solution” to a non-existing problem. This means they aren’t a solution at all; rather they are a malicious and wicked attempt to advance an agenda, e.g. to incentivize couples to seek annulment by making the procedure much more lax. If this is what the Pope is trying to accomplish, then he is even more of an agent of the devil than I thought.
What’s next? Streamlined Sacrament of Reconciliation?
Penitent sends text to Parish office: “I haven’t been so good lately.”
Automatic response: “That’s OK. We are all sinners. God is merciful. You are absolved. Have a nice day”
Warning–You may be tempted to confess to an SSPX priest during the Year of Mercy. In their usual stubbornness, they refuse to abide by the new streamlined version. You will have to confess your sins with true sorrow and a firm purpose of amendment and be given a penance. Don’t forget to practice The Act of Contrition from your old Baltimore catechism.
You have been warned!!!!
Your “Examine, Wait & See” approach gets at the heart of the matter — in a way many canon lawyers are skirting no doubt to maintain their canon lawyer (annulment) bizness w/the bishops.
Kasper the unholy ghost’s latest domino demolition: “The theme of mercy is central in the Bible, both in the Old and in the New Testaments. One could even summarize the whole Gospel under the title of mercy… Who of us has no need of mercy and of merciful people? This central and fundamental theme has been unpardonably neglected by systematic theology and reduced to a small paragraph under justice… God should condemn and punish the evil and reward the good. What a poor and miserable idea of God, of a God compelled to act according to our ideas of justice, a God who is an idol of our concepts, an executor and prisoner of our requests of an order imagined just!”
http://www.monasterodibose.it/en/hospitality/conferences/orthodox-spirituality/2015-mercy/9074-speakers-mercy-2015
God’s mercy according to St. Paul: “Is there injustice with God? God forbid. For he saith to Moses: I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy; and I will shew mercy to whom I will shew mercy. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. For the scripture saith to Pharao: To this purpose have I raised thee, that I may shew my power in thee, and that my name may be declared throughout all the earth. Therefore he hath mercy on whom he will; and whom he will, he hardeneth. Thou wilt say therefore to me: Why doth he then find fault? for who resisteth his will? O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it: Why hast thou made me thus? Or hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump, to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath, fitted for destruction, That he might shew the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he hath prepared unto glory?” Romans 9:14-23
According to St. John the Baptist: “And seeing many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to his baptism (of repentance), he said to them: Ye brood of vipers, who hath shewed you to flee from the wrath to come?” Matthew 3:7
God’s Governors Avengers who Execute Wrath On Evil Doers (vs VC2 Sect who empower perverts and baby killers like Castro, Obama, DeBlasio, & Biden): “Let every soul be subject to higher powers: for there is no power but from God: and those that are, are ordained of God. Therefore he that resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God. And they that resist, purchase to themselves damnation. For princes are not a terror to the good work, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? Do that which is good: and thou shalt have praise from the same. For he is God’ s minister to thee, for good. But if thou do that which is evil, fear: for he beareth not the sword in vain. For he is God’ s minister: an avenger to execute wrath upon him that doth evil. Wherefore be subject of necessity, not only for wrath, but also for conscience’ sake.” Romans 13:1-5
Jesus Christ Sermon on the Mount: “Enter ye in at the narrow gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way that leadeth to destruction, and many there are who go in thereat. How narrow is the gate, and strait is the way that leadeth to life: and few there are that find it! Beware of false prophets, who come to you in the clothing of sheep, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. By their fruits you shall know them. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit, and the evil tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can an evil tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit, shall be cut down, and shall be cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits you shall know them. Not every one that saith to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven: but he that doth the will of my Father who is in heaven, he shall enter into the kingdom of heaven. Many will say to me in that day: Lord, Lord, have not we prophesied in thy name, and cast out devils in thy name, and done many miracles in thy name? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, you that work iniquity. Every one therefore that heareth these my words, and doth them, shall be likened to a wise man that built his house upon a rock, And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and they beat upon that house, and it fell not, for it was founded on a rock. And every one that heareth these my words, and doth them not, shall be like a foolish man that built his house upon the sand, And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and they beat upon that house, and it fell, and great was the fall thereof.” Matthew 7:13-27
Psalm 1: “Blessed is the man who hath not walked in the counsel of the ungodly, nor stood in the way of sinners, nor sat in the chair of pestilence. But his will is in the law of the Lord, and on his law he shall meditate day and night. And he shall be like a tree which is planted near the running waters, which shall bring forth its fruit, in due season. And his leaf shall not fall off: and all whatsoever he shall do shall prosper. Not so the wicked, not so: but like the dust, which the wind driveth from the face of the earth. Therefore the wicked shall not rise again in judgment: nor sinners in the council of the just. For the Lord knoweth the way of the just: and the way of the wicked shall perish.”
Proverbs 1: My son, if sinners shall entice thee, consent not to them. If they shall say: Come with us, let us lie in wait for blood, let us hide snares for the innocent without cause: Let us swallow him up alive like hell, and whole as one that goeth down into the pit. We shall find all precious substance, we shall fill our houses with spoils. Cast in thy lot with us, let us all have one purse. My son, walk not thou with them, restrain thy foot from their paths. For their feet run to evil, and make haste to shed blood. But a net is spread in vain before the eyes of them that have wings. And they themselves lie in wait for their own blood, and practise deceits against their own souls. So the wage of every covetous man destroy the souls of the possessors. Wisdom preacheth abroad, she uttereth her voice in the streets: At the head of multitudes she crieth out, in the entrance of the gates of the city she uttereth her words, saying: O children, how long will you love childishness, and fools covet those things which are hurtful to themselves, and the unwise hate knowledge? Turn ye at my reproof: behold I will utter my spirit to you, and will shew you my words. Because I called, and you refused: I stretched out my hand, and there was none that regarded. You have despised all my counsel, and have neglected my reprehensions. I also will laugh in your destruction, and will mock when that shall come to you which you feared. When sudden calamity shall fall on you, and destruction, as a tempest, shall be at hand: when tribulation and distress shall come upon you: Then shall they call upon me, and I will not hear: they shall rise in the morning and shall not find me: Because they have hated instruction and received not the fear of the Lord, Nor consented to my counsel, but despised all my reproof. Therefore they shall eat the fruit of their own way, and shall be filled with their own devices. The turning away of little ones shall kill them, and the prosperity of fools shall destroy them. But he that shall hear me, shall rest without terror, and shall enjoy abundance, without fear of evils.
A good analysis louie of the motu proprio. In simple terms francis has made it easy to obtain an annulment where the marriage may well be valid. The spin is the decision will be same but quicker and therefore more merciful for those involved. The reality is more valid marriages will be given a decree of nulity. Oxymoron’s abound at the moment “unity in diversity ” and so forth. I beleive francis is the biblical false prophet he will continue to destroy the catholic faith until it is empty of all divine content including our lord in the blessed sacrament (the abomination of desolation ) spoken of by the prophet daniel taking away of the daily sacrifice only then will the antichrist take his seat. His apperence is not long away look for the polictical world peace maker during ww3 he will seem to have all the answers to the problems and people will love him for it. http://youtu.be/fv1SAtqZnyo
Seems like the Vatican II crowd has forgotten the very words of their own Saint John Paul II – here are some quotes from his Encyclical Letter Veritatis Splendor (1993):
26. In the moral catechesis of the Apostles, besides exhortations and directions connected to specific historical and cultural situations, we find an ethical teaching with precise rules of behaviour. . . . From the Church’s beginnings, the Apostles, by virtue of their pastoral responsibility to preach the Gospel, were vigilant over the right conduct of Christians, just as they were vigilant for the purity of the faith and the handing down of the divine gifts in the sacraments. … No damage must be done to the harmony between faith and life: the unity of the Church is damaged not only by Christians who reject or distort the truths of faith but also by those who disregard the moral obligations to which they are called by the Gospel (cf. 1 Cor 5:9-13). The Apostles decisively rejected any separation between the commitment of the heart and the actions which express or prove it (cf. 1 Jn 2:3-6). And ever since Apostolic times the Church’s Pastors have unambiguously condemned the behaviour of those who fostered division by their teaching or by their actions.
52 … The Church has always taught that one may never choose kinds of behaviour prohibited by the moral commandments expressed in negative form in the Old and New Testaments. As we have seen, Jesus himself reaffirms that these prohibitions allow no exceptions: “If you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments… You shall not murder, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness” (Mt 19:17-18)
56. … some authors have proposed a kind of double status of moral truth. Beyond the doctrinal and abstract level, one would have to acknowledge the priority of a certain more concrete existential consideration. The latter, by taking account of circumstances and the situation, could [according to these authors] legitimately be the basis of certain exceptions to the general rule and thus permit one to do in practice and in good conscience what is qualified as intrinsically evil by the moral law. A separation, or even an opposition, is thus established in some cases between the teaching of the precept, which is valid in general, and the norm of the individual conscience, which would in fact make the final decision about what is good and what is evil. On this basis, an attempt is made to legitimize so-called “pastoral” solutions contrary to the teaching of the Magisterium, and to justify a “creative” hermeneutic according to which the moral conscience is in no way obliged, in every case, by a particular negative precept. No one can fail to realize that these approaches pose a challenge to the very identity of the moral conscience in relation to human freedom and God’s law. Only the clarification made earlier with regard to the relationship, based on truth, between freedom and law makes possible a discernment concerning this “creative” understanding of conscience.
Seems now like there is no one deader than a dead Pope in Vatican II land.
Michael F Poulin
The heresy of universalism rears its ugly head at the end of paragraph 6:
“…the Church, in a matter so closely linked to the salvation of souls, demonstrates the gratuitous love of Christ by which we have all been saved.”
Invalid marriages – marriages that purport to have come into being but in fact did not – are of necessity very rare.
Yep, the code was created to ‘codify’ VII and the Novus Ordo (since the 1917 Code contradicts both), even as the Novus Ordo Catechism was created to help all those confused presiders in the formerly Catholic Parishes world-wide to reconcile VII and Novus Ordo with the new ‘Catholicsim’…(but not as we know it, Jim). This brand new ‘fidei depositum’ is what every single soul in communion with the N.O. belongs to – no degrees. You are what you eat, someone once said.
PS. It is not Catholic to sift and pick and choose. You take all of the Novus Ordo Code, and all of VII, and all of the Novus Ordo Catetchism and all of the Synod’s decrees, and all of Bergoglio’s public and magisterium, or none of it. There is no admixture of poison and purity in Christ’s Church. Likewise there is no admixture of harm and good in worship proper to Him, likewise there is not admixture of doubt and certainty regarding His priesthood; likewise there is no permission for an admixture of heresy and orthodoxy in His Vicars. If this aburd new doctrine of mixing truth and error were permissable the Church would have no reason to exist.
Wojtyla, of wretched memory, so beloved by one and all – ‘multis’, remains a living curse upon humanity.
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If the above quote had any truth it would say, ‘the gratuitous and egregious disregard for Christ’s clear and present prescription for our salvation’.
It’s an ancient axiom that the winners write the rules. The forces of evil aka “modernist” hijacked Vatican 2 and the Church as well as the Papacy. Unfortunately the Conciliar Popes and their sycophants have been rewriting rules at what is light speed for the Historical Church. 50 years of nonsense and novelty crammed down the throats of the faithful. Don’t you know its for our own good?. They have been re-writing the rules ever since to enshrine and solidify their heresy and apostasy. We know it can’t last. The question is do they?.
dear Lynda,
Exactly. In Catholicism, that is. To your point, Lynda-His Excellency Bp. Donald Sanborn: “False Doctrine and Evil Discipline Regarding Marriage”
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http://traditionalcatholicsermons.org/BishopSanbornSermonArchive/BpSan_FalseDoctrineAndEvilDisciplinesRegardingMarriage_12-01-96_1374.mp3
And YET….some still hold onto the ridiculous idea that vatican 2 and its false popes are in any way a part of the Catholic Church, DESPITE article after article that we see on this blog almost daily. Good luck with that stance when you face your judgment. I will not even start to waste my time arguing the sedevacantist POV…..its getting well beyond that; its not allowed here and even if it was Id be wasting my time. Its now just a matter of common sense, and apparently almost NOBODY has any.
Like Ive said a couple of times on this blog alone, for many, it will take these pieces of excrement (any vatican 2 adherent) to declare that “Christ is not God” before you wake up.
Rich, yep. I left this on the forum: https://akacatholic.com/topic/sede-vacante/ – one day, maybe, if there is any such thing as a ‘Catholic’ university left, they will study the mindset of the Novus Ordite claim to Catholicism. Something for later days.
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There’s a novel, called ‘A Canticle to Leibowitz’, written in the ’60s by a Catholic who, seeing the world falling apart, and the possibility of a nuclear holocaust, wrote a science fiction novel which envisaged a future where the Catholic Church, ravaged by the catastrophies but still with her full integrity, continues on. The guy who wrote the book then lived through VII, the Novus Ordo and those very real and happening catastrophies and, sadly, put a bullet in his brain thinking the Church was as dead as the world. Too bad he had never heard of the sound Catholic reason and faith of the sede vacantist argument.
PS. ‘scuse me, the book’s called ‘a canticle for leibowitz’, and was published in 1960, right on the turning point of Catholicsim and Novus Ordoism. So the author still had a firm hope in the Catholic Church that was a flourishing, sound, indefectible and very very visible Bride.
I am beyond words anymore and im just about out of hair to pull out in frustration. My consolation is in the fact that barely three years ago I was a totally lapsed Catholic when I decided to return to the Faith….and the first place I naturally returned to was my local novus ordo false church. I stayed there for about a year before I knew that something was very wrong, at which point I came to the SSPX. Thankfully I kept reading….I kept trying to learn more and more of my Faith….as we are bound to do…..and eventually good old fashioned Catholic common sense took over and I saw that the SSPX, despite what good intentions the order may have, was a useless endeavor….and here I am. I have much to learn but I have no doubt that I am at least on the right and narrow path.
Im going to google the book you cited
Anastasia,
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I replied to your comment Re. the preconciliar document on chastity and marriage in the previous post (I recommend anyone else reading this to take a look at the document here:
https://jakomonchak.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/on-the-sexual-order.pdf)
“Streamlined Sacrament of Reconciliation”?
That already exists in some European countries where individual confessions are a de facto extinct “weird anachronism of those dark pre-conciliar days” and in these more “enlightened days” that praise the glories of the homosexual tendency, have been replaced with “group penitential services” – during Holy Week those few old people with their crutches and walking sticks that still make it to Church gather around the NO priests who recite some prayers, the hapless parishioners join in, and “voila” – “absolution” has been granted.
That’s NO “confession” for you: Hardly can imagine anything more streamlined than that.
The teachings of “St” JP 2 are of little consequence to the modernists (despite their belief in his sainthood), because after all, dogma and doctrine change over the course of time as the religious “experience” of believers evolves and adapts to the needs of “modern man”. So sure – JP2 might have reflected the religious beliefs of the “conservatives” of his own time, but hey – common – the train of the conciliar revolution is rushing along at break neck speed and we don’t want to miss the stop do we? 😉
“…love of Christ by which we have all been saved.”
More Protestant talk coming from Bergoglio!
As the Proddies say – “once saved, always saved”. I think this is the basic gist of what Bergoglio is saying here.
Correct Lynda.
But Bergoglio and the conciliarists are trying to pave the way to salvation (to perdition really) wide and flat to accommodate “modern man’s” needs. “Modern man” can’t tolerate to pick up his cross and follow His Lord in obedience to His Law – such a notion is even repugnant to him. “Modern man” is here to live his paradise on earth. This is part of the reason for the sodomite plague in the Church – “modern man” has thus become weak, effeminate, unable and unwilling to fight against his disordered desires and follow Christ along the path to Calvary.
But Bergoglio and co. are preaching a false gospel for Our Lord taught precisely the opposite “Enter ye in at the narrow gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way that leadeth to destruction, and many there are who go in thereat.”
Where will the Sin-Nod lead us?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ve344B6vbqk
I was watching this last night, and the combination of the terrifying truth mentioned, the sinister music being played in the background, and the late hour almost made my hair stand on end.
dear rich,
in reading another Catholic decades ago, expressing himself much as you did here, he named himself & other Catholics like him as the walking wounded. At that time I felt he was rightly defining me & my family too. I sense that you might, along with Catholics worldwide, take solace & yes, even respite, in being exposed to Roman Catholicism, the Church founded by His Majesty Our Lord Jesus Christ, completely Modernism free. Unlike other “trad ” sites, one doesn’t have to exercise a hi-level of custody of the eyes while reading it in order to detect that one teensy bit of Modernism infused therein. This is a sedevacantist site. May this bring you the respite that many of us so much need, with Modernism morphing like a mutating virus currently. You say you have much to learn, if I may be so bold as to say, so do I of course & the following is a fine site to do just that.
http://catholicharboroffaithandmorals.com/
But countless souls led away from God and truth over all that time. Lord, have mercy.
Streamlined Sacrament of Reconciliation on its way???
http://www.catholicnews.com/services/englishnews/2015/pope-says-priests-lacking-mercy-should-have-desk-job.cfm
Dear Mr Poulin, Veritatis Splendor is a very good exposition of the objectivity of the moral law and moral act. A lecturer in moral theology that I once had who taught heresies (supposedly was an ordained priest though no indication of that in behaviour or dress) used to go apoplectic when I would physically bring out VS and quote from it to debunk his relativism. He raised his arm as if to strike me, once, but thankfully stopped himself. Very sad.
Louie,
Do I understand de Maria correctly above that this is a sedevacantist site?
No. de Maria numquam satis was referring to the site linked in the comment.
Please, forgive me for this is ‘off’ the topic, nevertheless, very important. Polish Catholics are taking a stand for the rights of Christ The King, Who presides over the destiny of nations!
Tomorrow, September 12th they will march on the streets of Warsaw, fearless, courageous soldiers of Christ, proclaiming the Enthronement of Christ The King over their beloved Poland. The whole Church of Poland will be standing together, courageous Bishops and priests will offer outdoor sermons, Mass in all Churches.
O What A Glory For God, The Reign Of Christ The King, And For The Reign Of The Immaculata!!!
…. some the banners say;
“EUROPE’S ONLY HOPE IS + RETURN TO THE FOLD OF CHRISTIANITY!”
“WHERE CHRIST THE KING OF ALL NATIONS DOES NOT REIGN, SATAN TAKES THE THRONE!”
“JESUS CHRIST KING OF POLAND, IS OUR STRENGTH, OUR COURAGE + TO NEVER FEAR THE ENEMY!”
“POLAND MUST IN THE MOST MYSTERIOUS WAY PROCLAIM THE LORD, OUR KING!”
‘Blessed are those who work without rest for the extension of the Social Reign of Our Lord by the intercession of Mary, Queen!’ +Marcel Lefebvre
Let us humbly offer prayers for the brave nation of Poland, and ask Jesus and Mary to bless many more nations, including this country (especially, those that were not long ago Catholic) to follow and imitate the brave Catholic Poles.
CHRISTUS VINCIT, CHRISTUS REGNAT, CHRISTUS IMPERAT!
VIVA CRISTO REY!
For more clarity, I’ll reword the last couple of sentences in my comment above:
dear rich–
The sedevacantist site to which I am now providing a link is one wherein a Catholic doesn’t have to exercise a hi-level of custody of the eyes while reading , in order to detect that one teensy bit of Modernism infused therein. May this bring you the respite that many of us so much need, with Modernism morphing like a mutating virus currently. You say you have much to learn, if I may be so bold as to say, so do I of course & the following is a fine site to do just that. My offering this site is merely an endeavor to comfort a fellow Catholic named in this comment -who is expressing , in his words, great frustration.
http://catholicharboroffaithandmorals.com/
FromPoland,
How can it be any different? Poland is the embodiment of Christian Europe. It may not have the most sublime Cathedrals, but the true heart of Europe lies there. How shameful that in this country, for so many years, Poles have been the butt of crass jokes, and so many were ashamed of their Polish roots, changing their names, for instance, from Drzewiecki to Drake. Their dishwater blonde, pale-eyed appearance allowed such kookiness. That’s the toxic effect of Americanism.
Salvemur, I know that the Church has been on a downward spiral since long before VII, but what I can’t understand is how a Church can mislead its trusting children, or how Our Lord can permit the majority of Catholics to be misled, and only the “chosen few” see the light.
Maybe someone here can help me to understand the issue of “lack of form” mentioned in Louie’s article. I read a piece written by a priest asserting that marriage should be considered valid if all the elements of intention is there regardless if it is a Catholic marriage or not. It sounds reasonable to me. Is it true that “lack of form” only applies if one party was a Catholic at the time of marriage? But if both parties were non Catholic at the time of marriage then it is not a simple “lack of form” but a full trial to determine if the marriage is valid or not. So it seems to me that one marriage with all the elements of intent would be invalid if one party is Catholic and the marriage is not a Catholic marriage due to lack of form, while another marriage with everything identical but none of the party was Catholic at the time of marriage need to subject to full tribunal process, is my understanding correct? and why is that? shouldn’t both go through the same tribunal process?
Many words do not satisfy the soul; but a good life eases the mind and a clean conscience inspires great trust in God.
The more you know and the better you understand, the more severely will you be judged, unless your life is also the more holy.
Do not be proud, therefore, because of your learning or skill. Rather, fear because of the talent given you. If you think you know many things and understand them well enough, realize at the same time that there is much you do not know.
Hence, do not affect wisdom, but admit your ignorance. Why prefer yourself to anyone else when many are more learned, more cultured than you?
Thomas a Kempis
Imitation of Christ
Book1; Chapter 2
Re-read the parable of the wheat and the weeds. And remember Job was chastised because he questioned God’s reasons for the trials he’d been given.
–
“how Our Lord can permit the majority of Catholics to be misled…” Interesting that we all believe Our Lord gives EVERYONE, not just the “chosen few,” all the grace, information, natural intelligence and curiosity needed to be saved – albeit in a different way for each. Can we wonder how He “allows” some to fall? He allows each one to CHOOSE.
BINGO!
Well, Barbara, pardon me for asking.
So much for my brief foray here.
Akita,
To understand the mind and the heart of Poland, you must know their history….full of turbulence, persecution and abused by misgovernment, but in spite of it all…..the Poles never gave up the good fight for the restoration of independence, nor, did they budge from protecting their Catholic Faith.
Poland is a country which inherited and, played her part in the development of European culture. Situated in the heart of the continent between Germany and Russia (with neighbors like them, who needs enemies). There were times when she disappeared from the political map of the world, thanks to such good neighbors like Russia, Prussia and Austria, to destroy the state which would become an obstacle to their expansion.
The land of Copernicus, Chopin, Maria Skłodowska-Curie, of Kościuszko and Adam Mickiewicz…..
Today Poland is the seventh largest country in Europe……but above all, the only country in Europe that is fighting vigorously for the last ten centuries to keep their God Given Catholic Faith, against all odds……and this speaks volumes.
At different times in history, Poland was defined as ‘the bulwark of Christianity’, the ‘bridge between East and West’, ‘the Christ of nations’, and ‘the conscience of the world.’ It is not far from the truth even today.
Do not forget, that every family (nation) has a black sheep. These Polish people, that you describe, they are also the ones that were not only ashamed of their very rich Polish heritage, but also those who were ashamed of Jesus, and compromised. As for the American Jokers…..the joke is on them.
Viva Cristo Rey!
dear Lorra,
May I ask you to reconsider & please not go? I read what you said and you’re most welcome here. Even if just to give the commenter whom you addressed to reply? We all have different personalities, ways of expressing ourselves & in the microcosm of a combox we often can be misunderstood. There are lots of Catholics here of such good will & kind heart with whom you can engage, an element that, IMHO, in these times-is so important. Anyway, May His Peace be to you.
Thank you for your kind reply. If you only knew how right you are – a kind heart and way of replying is needed today more than ever. So many are confused and don’t know which way to turn or what to do. Much patience and gentleness is needed.
God reward you for your kindness. You are right – of Mary there is never enough.
To where these annulment changes will lead the Church, if at all accepted, or presumed the forerunner of “Catholic divorce”, I do not know. It looks to me like an attempt to possible by-pass the coming synod in favor of nullifying the questionable marriages in a manner that will be quick and easy. Such an approach with the additional excuses for annulment may be that first step to eliminate a large percentage of the bonds in question. Yet, I see something more evolving here. The last synod woke up the laity and the clergy to a resistance not so much expected. With this year of preparation for the second synod, I think there may be an epiphany that 50 years of VII is beginning to sour that aggiornamento and as we say, it stinks! I wonder if with all the attempts to influence the minds of the people, those who worked hard to gain control are beginning to realize they are actually losing the hearts of their people who once again are rising up to preserve the faith and Tradition of the Church as has always been the case in our history. I think we may have just turned the corner of VII and are ready to take on everyone who does not speak that truth which is Catholic. After all we have our own brand of “Kosher”.
dear Lorra,
Just to note-I meant to say: Even if just to give the commenter whom you addressed **a chance **to reply? Thanks, dear Lorra.
But just so you know, I’m not one of those kind hearted people I spoke of ! I can be quite blunt, sometimes use the bang’em over the hear approach & yet most often have been treated with much warmth here. I just thought it’d be a shame for you to miss out on the interesting personalities here. So I hope you’ll remember my bluntness vice if we have a spat! God love you.
Dear rcaamo,
Interesting Kosher fish facts….
A Fish Inside a Fish
If a kosher fish is found inside the belly of a non-kosher fish, it is kosher. If a non-kosher fish is found in the belly of a kosher fish, it is not kosher.
And some kosher humour…
Moshe, an old man, was hit by a car. Whilst waiting for an ambulance, a policeman tucked a blanket under Moshe’s head and asked, “Are you comfortable?”
Moshe replied, “I make a nice living.”
Yes, the Nuns-on-the-bus crowd already has moved “beyond Christ” and yet they are approved by the Vatican! Do they even see what a joke they are?
Michael F Poulin
The Jewish mother
The remarkable thing about my mother is that for twenty years she served us nothing but leftovers. The original meal has never been found.
Who will it be, then?
Moishe had been single for a long time. One day, he excitedly tells his mother that he’s fallen in love at last and he is going to get married. She is obviously overjoyed.
Moishe then tells his mother, “Just for fun, Mum, I’m going to bring over 3 women and you try and guess which one I’m going to marry.”
His mother agrees.
The next day, Moishe brings 3 beautiful women into the house and sits them down on the couch and they all chat for a while. Then Moishe turns to his mother and says, “Okay, Mum. Guess which one I’m going to marry?”
She immediately replies, “The red-head in the middle.”
“That’s amazing, Mum. You’re right. How did you know?”
“I don’t like her.”
Apologies…I will stop now
The annulment process has been so abused already – here’s a solution:
GET RID OF ANNULMENTS!
and….
Don’t get married in the Church if you are both not Catholic.
Don’t get married until you understand the faith fully, and practice it.
Don’t get married until you understand the seriousness of the vow by which you are invoking God as your witness. God will not be mocked.
If the Church would stop performing frivolous marriages in the first place there would be no frivolous annulments!
Michael F. Poulin
Dear Lynda, male ego is often so enormous that being corrected by a female can trigger equivalent rage. But if you stood your ground, with the truth as your weapon, maybe someday he will reflect on that incident and his own reaction and perhaps be converted.
Michael F Poulin
Considering that today is the anniversary of the Islamic attack on America, please pray for the victims if you can, and all those who refuse to recognize the danger. Thank you. -Mike
I enjoyed the comic relief.
This motu proprio of Pope Francis is anti-Catholic; it debilitates the universal teaching authority of the Church by decentralizing the canonical laws of annulment so as to facilitate and create local customs and cultures (a further acculturation and differentiation of not only pastoral practices but of doctrine.) Truth then becomes neither absolute, Catholic, nor universal. Here again is an example of the ugly spirit of VII.
Lorra. God gives us His truth. One could ask how God could permit milions of people to be born and raised in false faiths, but God always gives everyone what they need for salvation. If, upon realising God’s truth, someone prefers the comfort of a state of ignorance even though they have been gifted with truth…the World is the grand Misleader, and VII and the N.O. have jumped on board with that Grand Misleader, boots and all.
Rich. Peter concurs. Also, Rich, if you (or anyone else for that matter) would like to keep in touch with Peter, or anyone who has came to find strong Catholic fort in the sede vacantist argument, but feel unable to comment, here’s a neutral email where you can leave contact details and ask be to put in touch with others you might recognise from the HTF comments:
tradition.links@mail.com
Yes, but we can take heart that the conservative side of Francis still has not approved annulments for same-sex marriages.
Perhaps they have been inspired by the Hungarians who ignored the EU and created a constitution that acknowledges Christ the King a few years ago – the EU and ever ‘right’ thinking liberal was horrified (they should be). Perhaps this could be a new kind of dominoes…
Heheh. But I reckon a bloke who stage manages picking up his own suitcase from his private plane (really – he made them go and put it back so he could have his, ‘see how humble am I’ photo ‘op) never puts his horses before his carts.
PS. Lorra, your question is one of THE pertinant questions, however. The Church can NEVER mislead her children, which is why it is CRUCIAL to know where Holy Mother Church is, and who Her true shepherds are. Holy Mother Church is indefectible and Her shepherds NEVER led astray in Faith and Morals.
In Christo
dear FrankIII,
I know ! I’ve been taking great consolation from that in the last 24 hrs. Or, wait, is that a symptom of my dx of Bergoglio Related Stockholm Syndrome?
!!!!!!!
God bless, Thomas. If I may be a bit flippant here, EM, how long do you reckon it will take the N.O. to give us another Thomas a Kempis? or, for that matter, another Imitation of Christ?
–
PS. “A man walks up to a Sedevacantist and a Novus Ordite and asks, “How many Article 14s d’ya need to get a marriage annulled?”
–
The Sedevacantist asks, “what’s an article fourteen?”
–
The Novus Ordite asks, “what’s a marriage?”
The Novus Ordite continues: “marriage was condemned in October 2015 by Francis I & was replaced by Unions Among Persons with Special Gifts or-UAPSG.”
touché
Dear Salvemur,
Ha Ha…very good
Seriously, what this will do is cause a de facto schism between dioceses that restrict annulments (mainly in Africa, maybe some in Asia and the U.S.) and those that grant easy annulments (all of Northern Europe, most of Southern Europe, most of the U.S. and Latin America). It will further deep-six already below-replacement birth rates. And it will hasten Europe’s takeover by Muslims, which Francis also is encouraging by welcoming the jihadi invaders (“refugees”). There is no “mercy” here, only torture for faithful Catholics and the final end of Christendom. Faithful Catholics will live only in the catacombs. None of us will see it, but the Church will emerge purified.
reasons to take offense at pope francis
Video by Dr kelly Bowring
http://youtu.be/cIk88U9VYM8
Dear mpoulin & anybody else who beleives the propaganda & lies.
There was no islamic attack at 911
It was mossad done at will of the talmudic zionist ashkenazi jews (not religious jews of the torah)
http://youtu.be/qdP95oSoOFk
Actually, if we had a pope, he would indeed make these the object of a declaration of nullity.
mpoulin,
to your point, here in nyc we’re hoping for an extension of the Zadroga Act for a certain minimal level of continuing assistance for civilian & official first responders–especially in light of our eldest, one of the countless civilian heroes & heroines that day. https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-congress/house-bill/1786
People need to stop getting their information from Youtube videos.
Michael F Poulin
Is it a “harsh saying” that God gives everyone sufficient grace (knowledge, a mind to think with, and a will to choose with) to be saved?
–
Is it a “harsh saying” that salvation is there to be grasped no matter what one’s individual circumstances?
–
Is it a “harsh saying” that millions lose their Faith because they perceive the ‘happiness’ of this world is worth more than the suffering necessary to stay in the state of grace?
–
Is it a “harsh saying” that those who end up in Hell have chosen to go there?
–
Is the above what the Church has always taught or not? It’s not harsh, it is life-saving.
Yes. In the bad old days when parents chose, or helped in the choice, of a mate for their son or daughter the true purpose and ‘path’ for marriage was clear. Love was present, or love came, or happiness in the marriage was what each one contributed to contentment and peace.
–
We might ask the question: “what’s love got to do with it?”
–
“All you need is love?” How’s that workin’ out for ya?
Pray and sacrifice for your salvation, and the salvation of your family, friends and neighbours. Leave “the world” for Our Lord. Remember Jesus said He did not pray for “the world.”
–
Harshness alert: “the world” really does not exist, other than as the spiritual kingdom of Satan – it is made up of individuals. Each of us makes daily choices, for God, or not. Most of us don’t chose “the world” we just live the way it tells us to…the Faithful are not of this world, we only live it the way Our Lord told us to.
–
Harshness alert: Let go of all those millions of souls! We have been given one souls to save, and we have been given a personal life in which to work that out. That means we can light our own little world, give good example of love and patience and forbearance, and fortitude and temperance and true love of God and neighbour. Billions of little lights will bring The Light of The World into the darkness
–
I’ll get slammed for this, I know, but if we EACH looked after our own little surroundings and let God convert “the world” we would indeed bring the new Jerusalem.
Hahaha yes sir mr MICHAEL F POULIN
Agree with you, Barbara. I’ve such vivid memories of my Dad’s Italian Catholic parents whose marriage was arranged in the Amalfi Coast. They had many children in Italy, then came to America & had many more children. Love was not a part of the contract. It was raising a family which was the (Catholic) point. I recall my Dad telling me that his Mom said she learned to love his Dad & vice versa. Recently I hear a sermon by Bp. Sanborn saying how many would never “make each other happy,” or even “get along so well,” (my paraphrasing,) but in the raising of a brood of children in the Faith, did a splendid job.
I don’t find this at all harsh in fact it gives me great HOPE.
“Interesting that we all believe Our Lord gives EVERYONE, not just the “chosen few,” all the grace, information, natural intelligence and curiosity needed to be saved – albeit in a different way for each. Can we wonder how He “allows” some to fall? He allows each one to CHOOSE.”
It is an attack on the universal and immutable laws of marriage – natural and divine.
Dear FrankIII, We are already seeing it. And those who ought to be leading and protecting us are joining in attacking us.
de Maria numquam satis and salvemur
Thanks.
@ Salvemur. Yes, too bad he did not hear about sedevecantism. Maybe he would not have killed hhimself but then again……..This raises an ininteresting point though. When did he die because sedevecantism may not have been hypothesized yet. I assume that like most sedevecantists, you believe John XXIII was an antipope yet EVERY SINGLE CATHOLIC THOUGHT HE WAS A POPE. in other words the entire Church was in error and the gates of hell had prevailed. Sedevecantism tends to destroy the very thing it seeks to protect, the infallibility of the Church.
2,350 architects and engineers agree with you, john6.
http://www.ae911truth.org/about.html
——-
The information to prove john6’s point reaches far beyond a few YouTube videos. Please look at this subject one more time, Mr. Poulin.
http://www.ae911truth.org/about.html
john6,
This video from Dr kelly Bowring is new church drivel.
Dr kelly Bowring supports medjugorje.
Dr kelly Bowring has the “divine mercy” image behind him. I remind you that the divine mercy devotion was condemned by the Holy office many times before Vatican II and even by Pope John XXIII.
Dr kelly Bowring taught in the video the 1000 year peace reign of Christ on earth at the end of time. This is a new church heresy that the Protestants favor and was condemned in the early Church.
Dr kelly Bowring supports the new mass.
Dr kelly Bowring calls Fatima, the third secret and the mass changes “small things” that we should not focus on.
This video is so clearly bad and I am surprised I found it linked on this site.
Catholics should run a mile from Dr kelly Bowring.
mpoulin,
The Notorious Banned FOX 9-11-2001 News Footage Israeli/Mossad Links:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbkQddEDPs0
No….sedevacantism’s logical premise DOES protect the idea of the infallibility of the Church. The Church CAN NOT be in error….this is the MAIN point. When those who claim to be of the Church speak in error and promote that error as part of the magisterium, like bergoglio for instance, then they are NOT A PART of the Catholic Church because we KNOW that our Catholic Church is perfect and cannot teach error.
SUNDAY POEM
When You Are Old by William Butler Yeats
When you are old and grey and full of sleep,
And nodding by the fire, take down this book,
And slowly read, and dream of the soft look
Your eyes had once, and of their shadows deep;
How many loved your moments of glad grace,
And loved your beauty with love false or true,
But one man loved the pilgrim Soul in you,
And loved the sorrows of your changing face;
And bending down beside the glowing bars,
Murmur, a little sadly, how Love fled
And paced upon the mountains overhead
And hid his face amid a crowd of stars.
Dear A Servant of Our Lady, Indeed one doesn’t need to be an engineer or architect to know that the three steel skyscrapers could only have collapsed into bits, at near free-fall and perfectly into their respective footprints by means of controlled demolition explosives and expertise (and of course the physical evidence in the molten steel itself was quickly shipped overseas and melted down, against the law).
When has any of these Popes said something excathedra that was wrong? Never! Encyclicals are authoritative but not infallible. Again I assume you also think John XXIII was an anti Pope yet no one thought that when he was alive. Therefore, Objectively speaking the WHOLE CHURCH WENT INTO SCHISM BECAUSE THEY WERE ALL IN COMMUNION WITH A HERITIC.
I think reading Lord of the World, followed by the Leibowitz book, provides some startling insights. Highly recommend both books.
Monday 14/9/15
THE EXALTATION OF THE HOLY CROSS
Realize that you must lead a dying life; the more a man dies to himself, the more he begins to live unto God.
Our merit and progress consist not in many pleasures and comforts but rather in enduring great afflictions and sufferings
If, indeed, there were anything better or more useful for man’s salvation than suffering, Christ would have shown it by word and example.
Thomas a Kempis
to A Critical Thinker–study the teaching of Holy Mother Church on the infallability of the Universal Ordinary Magisterium prior to VII.
**
It’s innaccurate to state that no one thought that John XXIII didn’t hold papal authority when he was alive.
***
It’s not the sedevacantist position that -in your words-“the whole church went into schism—————-,” it that’s what you are attempting to imply.
If you’d like to discuss this further, you can open a column in the forum, then notify us where to find you there
Until then–this may help you to gain knowledge re: exactly what a sedevacantist is & the position we hold. Peace be to you.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BlRbDWrSDSY
Barbara, coming from someone who is learning much from your comments and has gained spiritual strength from your obviously well informed and developed faith, I am wary of pointing out a difficulty I have with your comment above. Not so much in the first point you make that we much act with charity and the conviction of our faith in “the here and now” towards our immediate family, friends and neighbours — that I agree wholeheartedly—-, but with the comment that by living authentically Christians lives we will help to “bring the new Jerusalem.”
Perhaps it is the Augustine in me, but I’m coming to the conclusion that we should never long for ‘a new Jerusalem’ which is worldly at all, but that the only ‘Jerusalem’ we must fix our gaze on is the spiritual one in heaven with God our Father, Son and Holy Ghost and all of the Saints in Heaven. More and more I believe when our Lord shouted, “the Kingdom of God is at hand”, Christ was referring to the One, Holy, Apostolic, and Catholic Church in the here and now, no matter what our earthly situation is, united mystically as it is to His Body with the Church Suffering and the Church Triumphant. This Augustinian notion becomes even clearer when I concede that anything good in this world seems always to be subject to decay and corruption. And in no way does this contradict the agreement of your first point. I believe, indeed, that living the authentically Christian life in the here and now calls down the blessings of the heavenly afterlife and that is what brings meaning and joy to life.
However, it is aspiring to an earthly ‘new Jerusalem’ on earth —- what one may refer to as Messianic tendencies — that has in fact been the cause of so much evil in the last few centuries.
Again, this video proves nothing except Israel spies on the US, exactly the same as the US spies on its “allies” France and Germany and UK. That is what spies do. Nothing in the report proves complicity of Israel in 9/11. You guys seem to forget that all the major US intelligence services had pieces of information beforehand also, yet failed to assimilate it , analyze it and relate it to anything specific. Its in the nature of bureaucracies to be inept, inefficient and self-serving. What you see as conspiracy I see as incompetence. What you see as plotting cabals I see as the same old sins of pride, greed, and lust. In light of the Obama regime, if you were Israel, would you trust the US as an ally? I don’t think so. Their survival is at stake and to trust it to the foolish atheistic leftists in this country is extremely un-wise. And by the way, it still does not relieve you of your duty as a Catholic to pray for 9/11 victims, like I asked you to, and all of your enemies.
Peace and blessings.
Your brother in Christ Jesus
Michael F Poulin
slightly OT, dear brethren,
Just to touch upon the tactic of Catholics attacking other Catholics by means of PUMMELING WITH THE CAPS LOCK. Now, we’re not talking about emphasizing a word here or there, no, we’re talking about PUMMELING. Over the years (although infrequently) this tactic has been used by someone here or there who happens to be hostile to the SSPX, the SSPX-SO, sedevacantists, or within the context of making public accusations against both members of the laity & clergy. In fact, one such attack against commenters here who are pro-FSSPX awhile ago became so hostile via PUMMELing verbage that one of us found herself defending laity of the SSPX & we’re sedevacantists! Probably those who use this tactic are not aware of how it effects new visitors to this site & are certainly not attempting to be hostile at all, but maybe we can avoid it.
The architects and engineers listed at ae9911truth.org are hace no training or expertise and are far outside the disciplines of chemistry, combustion and metallurgy, and are instead are concentrated on the building trades, architecture and mechanical engineering but not so much on the industrial heat treatment of metals. So these guys are no more qualified than anyone else and can be deceived like anyone else. They are using dupes like yourselves to sell books and cd’s.
Some simple facts: Aluminum melts at 1220F and can burn and ignite as low at 1400F depending on particle size, the gas phase of combustion creates condensate of aluminum oxide, all oxidizing reactions produce heat (even rusting) which can push the temperature up further past 6900F, ( which is why aluminum powders are used in solid rocket motors). Airplanes are made of a lot of aluminum so essentially you have a thermite grenade exploding into a building, with plenty of jet fuel to enable and prolong the oxidizing process. Most importantly, steel strength drops to 1/2 at around 1150F , and some estimate the fires were up to 1875F, and there are video pictures of molten metal dropping from the towers before collapse. In addition the kinetic energy of a 500mph jet plane itself would be enough to vaporize metal and take out major internal support columns. Internal center collapse was made possible by the strong exoskeleton of the WTC towers, because the skins were major carrying members of the structure, as the architect of the building explains, so they cou;d have more open floor space. (Unlike most skyscrapers where the outside skin is just hung onto an internal frame.) The weaken state of the internal supports, and the strength of the skin is what confined the collapse to a small footprint. There were no explosives. There was no government conspiracy, but there was an Islamic jihadist one.
By the way, if you all are too cowardly to sign your real names rather than hide behind screen names, I won’t respond further.
Michael F Poulin
mpoulin,
The Israeli foreknowledge of the 911 attacks is documented and part of the factual history. I have the police reports and FBI reports. Sgt. Scott DeCarlo who is a police officer in New Jersey he arrested Israelis on the day of the attack who where dancing when the attacks were happening.
A concerned citizen called police and Sgt. Scott DeCarlo responded here is his story: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-B2J7tp8eg
If you want the police reports and the FBI reports I would be happy to give them to you.
The Israelis and the Saudis in union with criminals in our Government & in our military industrial complex did 911. This fact is manifestly provable. In fact sharyl attkisson was on Fox news this week calling for the release of the classified 28 pages of the 911 report that contains the names and the funding of who is responsible for 911.
Congressmen that have read the 28 pages say it was the Saudis. Even Bill O’reilly called on Obama to declassify the 28 pages. 911 was a false flag with the help of the Israelis and the Saudis.
If you can’t handle reality I am sorry.
mpoulin,
Muslims are clearly a real threat to the Church and to America. What is also true is that false flag attacks happen. The Military trains the men how to do false flag attacks. It is a tactic of war. The training manuals are public for you to read.
Fourteen years after the September 11, 2001 attacks, one of the last, great mysteries surrounding the terrorist attacks on America has yet to be unmasked – parts of the Congressional probe that have been kept secret from the public under two U.S. administrations.
The 28 pages: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44vI3hzOsbg
mpoulin
If you had put “911” in the place of Islamic above there would of been no need of my comment. im sure many more people have learned a thing or 2 more about 911 as a consequence of your original comment thankyou God bless.
Thankyou servant of our lady for your kind response and links
Thank you, Lynda. God bless you and love you!
You are welcome, john6.
You are correct, Mr. Poulin, that we must pray for the victims of 911. It IS our Catholic duty, as you said. One of my friends was on the 106th floor of tower 2 on that day. He did not survive. Thank you for reminding me to pray for his soul once again.
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The reason “they” chose the date 9-11 to kill our fellow Americans has to do with the verse from the Bible taken from Apocalypse 9:11. It tells us who their king is, who it is they worship.
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From Apocalypse (or Revelation) 9:11 ——–
“A king, the angel of the bottomless pit; whose name in Hebrew is Abaddon, and in Greek Apollyon; in Latin Exterminans,”
(Douay-Rheims Bible)
http://biblehub.com/revelation/9-11.htm
Dear piokolby,
All that you have said is true.
Perhaps john6 only wanted to show the extent to which the level of “seeing” the nonsense has reached. If EVEN Dr. Kelly Bowring can see how evil are the “things of francis,” then how could the whole “catholic” world not see it as well?!
Dear John 6, Yes, a Catholic doesn’t need to accept what Dr Bowring ascribes to regarding various alleged apparitions or prophecies to know that the reasons for Catholics to take offence at specific acts of Francis, as described, are valid.
I guess those at Rorate Caeli couldn’t figure this out on their own until someone admitted it:
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http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2015/09/important-admission-from-head-of.html
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Yes, the intent is to incentivize annulments. When will Rorate Caeli denounce Pope Francis for the wolf he obviously is? First, this Pope goes after a flourishing religious order and crushes it. Then he attacks the institution of marriage. This is right out of the traditional enemy of the Truth’s handbook – attack the best among the enemy and subvert their morals.
Piokolby, servant of our lady , lynda and all others it may concern. I posted a link above to a catholic theologian who beleives francis is the biblical false prophet. I too beleive this to be the case thats my stance on francis plain & simple. I never wrote paragraphs & paragraphs on this insisting people must beleive this or that or began any debate with any1 concerning francis being the false prophet, Just simply my views on the matter. What is hard to understand is that when i posted a vid of the hardest line sedevacantists i know of the diamond bro’s which according to the prophecies of St Malachy francis is the last visable pope on earth until the second comming of christ which is what i beleive , nobody commented anything. i realize that dr kelly bowring being a i dont like using catergories for catholics but lets say a consevative novus ordo type of which there are some who comment here , people feel it easier to attack him because of his position on other matters. . The video didnt talk about all the issues that some here including me will dissgree with SVC2 and new mass. Just that according to different prophecies and scripture he beleives francis is the false prophet. Again thats my position. Heres the vid again from the diamond brothers http://youtu.be/sLaSMLSgEmQ
Dear John6, Yes, we must be objective in assessing propositions, assertions, etc., and not be tempted by irrelevant biases. We must stay objective and not make personal comments (unless good, of course). God bless.
From what I can see of Rorate Caeli, their schtick is giving information with very little comment, or slant.
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Their content is always well attributed, with no “rumours,” and no personal diatribes against anybody.
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Actually it’s a nice contrast from the usual – I admire them for their clear-headedness, and determination to stay the course.
Yes, you’re right, I was using what sounded like a good phrase forgetting it has deeper, theological meaning – good catch.
I AGREE…THIS CAPS LOCK COMMUNICATION IS SIMPLY OUTRAGEOUS!!!!
…erm….sorry about that…the caps lock must have been stuck….
Tut, tut! Don’t you know how bad those upper case characters are?!! (Much easier to read on a little phone screen, like mine, though!)
Yes, john6. I have learned much information from your links. I was only saying that knowing what I know about your many postings, I am sure you do not subscribe to EVERYTHING that Dr. Bowring has said in this video or elsewhere. I knew you were only making a point. The point you were making is that Dr. Bowring thinks, as you do, that francis is the false prophet.
To tell you the truth, (even though all that piokolby said is true) I was happy (many months ago) when I first heard Dr. Bowring say these things about francis because I was thinking that perhaps more people were “waking up” to the truth.
I meant no disrespect to you.
dear Ever mindful,
if you didn’t know the gravity, did not give full consent or were under coercion, then it’s not a sin! ASK ME HOW I KNOW THAT ! Confession scene in Moonstruck.
TSK, TSK, I know.
It’s Dimond Brothers, BTW. The Dimond Brothers teach heresy. Among other things, they deny BOD and BOB, which are De Fide.
Servant of our lady.
None taken. In reply to “im sure you do not subscribe to everything dr kelly says”
Im postive that i will disagree with him about certain issues but i must tell the truth to what i do beleive. I beleive the blessed mother appeared at garabandal i also believe in the blessed mothers apparitions in Medjugorje
I beleive in the divine mercy devotion both the prayers and St Faustina’s
Accounts of her visions and conversations.
Dear de Maria,
That reminds me of the time, when stopping for lunch on a pilgrimage to the Holy Land, when an Anglican bishop accompanying a separate ( and separated) group of pilgrims, leant over to help himself to a potatoe chip, saying ” I’ve always wondered what a Catholic chip tastes like?”
To which I replied…” It’s a sin if you take pleasure in it !”
dear Em,
!!!!! But you know we sedevacantists are quite doctrinaire; so it’s only a sin, according to Liguori, if you take pleasure in satisying hunger-OK, but if you engage for more than 3 seconds in the evil pleasure of possibly committing Capitol Sin of Gluttony, then there’s a problem !!!!!!!
Dear de Maria,
Is that 3 seconds per individual chip?
No! Obviously, one must stop at the very first chip–we are trads, are we not? Smiley face which I still do not know how to make.
Smiley face would not appear….sigh
God love you, dear EM. May She Who is the Seat of Wisdom afford Her Protection to you today & ever.