This just in: Pope Francis had no idea that the Relatio was going to the media; in fact, the poor Pontiff was entirely unaware of its contents. And if you believe that, please, send me a postcard from Lalaland; I hear it’s beautiful this time of year.
Seriously folks, we’ve seen this movie before; back in 1959, January 25th to be exact.
Pope John XXIII, while celebrating Holy Mass at the Basilica of St. Paul Outside the Walls, with seventeen cardinals present, announced his plan to convene the Second Vatican Ecumenical Council. Unbeknownst to the stunned clerics at the time, media outlets around the world had already broken news of the Council’s calling. In fact, Roman cab drivers knew about the Council even before they did.
As a result, any intentions the cardinals may have had about consulting with the Holy Father (that is, after all, their role) about the relative wisdom of such a convocation absent the presence of a doctrinal crisis were effectively put to rest; by the time they left the church building, it was already too late to put the toothpaste back in the tube.
A similar thing took place on Monday with the publication of the Synod’s Relatio.
Fr. Lombardi can obfuscate and deny all he wants, but I don’t believe for a moment that the same pope who fawned over Cardinal Kasper’s presentation given at the Consistory of February 2014, almost as if he had written the text himself (and for all intents and purposes he may as well have) somehow lost his handle on the proceedings.
From the very first days of his pontificate, Pope Francis has been channeling his inner John XXIII; almost to the point of appearing to live out a secret little dream of being an updated version of the “Good Pope John.”
From his down to earth “every man” persona all the way to his new found plumpness, Francis gives every impression of imagining that he is the next great reformer of the Catholic Church after the model of he who opened the windows of St. Peter’s thereby allowing the modernist winds to blow about the sanctuary at will.
If I were a betting man, I’d wager that Pope Francis not only knew very well the contents of the Relatio prior to its release to the worldwide media, he insisted that it be so released prior to sharing it with the Synod participants themselves.
Otherwise, the humble Bishop of Rome, the same who has no problem dictating such papal details as his living quarters, modes of transportation, and even the kind of passport he carries, would have denounced these goings on. He has not for the simple reason that they have gone, thus far, according to his very own plan.
In any case, whether or not I am correct, an appreciable amount of damage has most certainly been done.
The Relatio has not only ratcheted up global expectations, it has effectively guaranteed that those expectations will be met in local churches the world over.
You see, by greeting the travesty of Monday, October 13th with silence, Pope Francis has given every self-respecting modernist a veritable wink-and-nod, and you can bet your favorite Neo-Pelagian rosary that none of them missed it. This is far more than they ever needed in order to feel entirely justified in carrying out their own gay-friendly, adultery-embracing, mission of mercy.
That said, no matter how many Cardinal Burke’s come forward in the days ahead, short of divine intervention there is no scenario by which Pope Francis is just going to quietly allow authentic Catholic doctrine and discipline to derail his mission to build upon the “profound and serene” theology that was dispensed from the mouth of his proxy Cardinal Kasper back in February.
The only questions that remain concern how he will go about enforcing his will on the Church, and whether or not Our Lord will allow it.
…and it just gets better.
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Kasper now claims that he did not do the interview where he made racist remarks about the African hierarchy and population.
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Interviewer, releases tape. And it sound a lot worse than the stenogram.
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RC has the story:http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2014/10/yes-kasper-did-give-interview-with.html#more
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New Catholic comments:
“The only ones to leave this sorry event stained are the Zenit editors, who had the obligation to stand on the side of information, since the Catholics of an entire continent are surely more relevant than the whim of one cardinal, the ignominious Kasper, before whom they folded. Kasper’s treatment of Zenit and Pentin was just as “merciful” as his words for Africa and Africans, and his regard for Catholic dogma.
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I guess one has to break some journalistic/editorial eggs to make the perfect omlet””. 🙂
More proof that Francis is micro managing the SATANIC SECRET SYNOD OF SIN.
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Fr. Z update to below Hagan Lio post:
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UPDATE 16 Oct: 1454 GMT
Apparently, Card. Pell was the first one to rise up against Card. Baldisseri. When Baldisseri made the announcement, Card. Pell took the floor and said that the reports had to be published and that they were tired of the manipulation.
From that point, the bishops also rose up. When Baldisseri repeated his position, he was effectively shouted down.
At that point, Card. Baldisseri turned to the Pope and got the nod to publish.
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Looks like the modernist’s can’t scratch their “asinum” without the nob from Francis. 🙂
And now some big picture stuff.
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Why liberals are united and conservatives are divided: Part 1
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Link here: http://www.lmschairman.org/2014/10/why-liberals-are-united-and.html
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Joseph Shaw writes:
“This isn’t a bad moment to reflect on something which is often said: while liberals support each other in their efforts, conservatives often don’t, and lose out that way.”
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Is it really that important whether Francis is the “true” pope or not or whether the II Vatican Council defined dogma or not?
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This “near death” experience that we are witnessing should give us all grounds for some serious reflection.
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In other words: “why can’t we all get along”?
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PS Questions posed above are strictly of a rhetorical nature. 😉
Maybe what should we really pray for is a new Flood or Sodom-style fire and brimstone intervention.
“All in all it’s just another brick in the wall.” Pink Floyd proclaimed it, starting in 1979. Ultimately, the children will suffer most, denied the divine principles in the form of doctrinal teaching of Mother Church.
Good article, Louie. I agree that the Pope likely knew the contents of the Relatio prior to its release.
These days, we may tend to think that even heretics, such as the Modernists, are not quite as bad as the heretics of old, but I think it’s a mistake to underestimate them, and what they are capable of. Heretics are generally not in a state of grace, and have a warped view of the Catholic Church. Their thining is profoundly flawed, and as such, they are capable of lying, as well as deception.
I’m thinking of the Arians in the fourth century, when the Arian Emperor Constantius kidnapped Pope Liberious in the night in the year 346. The Pope was brought before the Emperor, and told that he had a choice: he could sign the condemnation of St. Athanasius, or he could go into exile. The pope chose exile, and was then exiled in Thrace.The Arians installed an anti-Pope in Rome, whom the clergy accepted, but the laity repudiated him.
I think that we have had a similar situation today, with the abdication of Pope Benedict. We don’t know the details, but I think it’s highly likely that the Pope was forced to resign by the modernist enemies within the Church. Less than two years after his resignation, we have a modernist takeover (or attempted takeover), and I don’t see how it can be a coincidence. Pope Benedict was forced to leave, though there’s not solid proof yet.
Human nature hasn’t changed since the time of the Arians. Heretics are capable of great deception, and we can’t ever forget that, even as we maintain our integrity and honesty (and even charity) in the face of evil in the Church.
The fact that Francis the Lame didn’t call a halt to the whole “process” after this document was given to the press is proof enough that he approved.
Qui Tacit Consentire.
Was it not Pope John XXIII who directed Sister Lucy of Fatima remain silent? Was it not Pope John XXIII who chose not to release The Third Secret of Fatima in 1960?
Just days ago the Bishop of Rome predicted ambiguously:
“Be open to the God of surprises!” Indeed. Indeed.
If I were to interpret the implication of that statement of Francis’ I would use an Americanism:
“It ain’t over until the fat lady sings.”
It was probably Benedict’s comment that gay marriage was a threat to humanity’s future that provoked the wrath of the Lavender mafia.
If Siri was actually elected as all evidence points to, John XIII would be an Antipope true and true, Sedevacantism or not.
Your analysis is spot on Louie.
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Having said that, I don’t think the Pope expected the blowback he received. So the question is, how will he respond? My guess is that he’ll allow the corrected version to go out with his approval. But he now knows who his enemies are and he will be very careful who he allows to be promoted to Bishop and Cardinal in the future.
Silence is consent. Why would Bergoglio speak up when everything is going his way? He is the ringleader for the Synod (Nod-to- Sin), aka Vat2 on steroids. This may be the chastisement Our Lady spoke of to Sister Lucy. Louie, you are absolutely right about Burke—it is not what he says that matters. What will HE DO?? Evil men do evil things. What we must fear is GOOD men doing nothing. As in the days of the crusades, we need a “Holy War” to fight the enemy within. Lord, help us all!
Dear Bosco49,
Good points. Time is the proving ground of all prophets:
After refusing to publish the 3rd Secret of Fatima, John XXIII opened Vatican Council II (Oct 11, 1962)saying:
..” we sometimes have to listen, much to our regret, to voices of persons who, though burning with zeal, are not endowed with too much sense of discretion or measure. In these modern times they can see nothing but prevarication and ruin. They say that our era, in comparison with past eras, is getting worse..” “We feel we must disagree with those prophets of gloom, who are always forecasting disaster, as though the end of the world were at hand.”
“In the present order of things, Divine Providence is leading us to a new order of human relations which, by men’s own efforts and even beyond their very expectations, are directed toward the fulfilment of God’s superior and inscrutable designs. And everything, even human differences, leads to the greater good of the Church.”
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and why a council?
“Ecumenical Councils, whenever they are assembled, are a solemn celebration of the union of Christ and His Church” and hence lead to the universal radiation of truth, to the proper guidance of individuals in domestic and social life, to the strengthening of spiritual energies for a perennial uplift toward real and everlasting goodness.”
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SO, 50 years later, it must be time to declare the fruit rotten, since the Vatican saw it necessary to call a Synod to discuss what to do about the universal radiation of falsehood, the millions of improperly guided individuals living in sinful “irregular unions”, the destruction of family values, and the social chaos which rewards sin and punishes virtue, weakening spiritual energies to create a perennial downswing toward assisted suicide and real and everlasting damnation?
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No, it’s time to purge the sodomites and their sympathizers from the clergy. St Peter Damian pray for us!!!!
The early Church Fathers wouldn’t even have entertained Kasper’s nonsense. By now he would have heard ringing in his ears “LET HIM BE ANATHEMA!” ——
St. John Chrysostom pray for us!!!
What do you mean what is Burke going to do? He’s spoken out and written a book. He’s ONE MAN! What do you want him to do?? The bigger question is, will the cowardly bishops, priests and ignorant laity that hear him speak Truth stand with him and stop being cowards?! Poor Burke… according to some, he has the entire burden of saving the Church on his shoulder alone.
Dear James,
I think it was his ban on ordaining homosexuals that is behind the “abdication” personally.
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As we can easily observe, if the Catholicism is allowed back into the catholic church, we get mega vocations and churches begin to fill up.
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But that will mean that these pious clerics will be the ones ascending into the church hierarchy.
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And that is bad for the homomafia.:)
If you still haven’t seen the Pell interview….
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Link from Fr. Z.:http://wdtprs.com/blog/2014/10/video-card-pell-speaks-on-a-secular-agenda-the-relatio-the-stalking-horse/
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W O W.
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Awesome addition to Cd. Burke’s interview.
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Takeaways:
Very wide and historical perspective.
First, we can’t change if we want to survive. Proddies changed, and look at how bad of a shape they are in.
Second, that the Roman empire was more debauched than the present secular western society, and the Church grew in this much more hostile environment.
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It must be “talk like a man” day at the Vatican.
Seeing as how the Vatican is open and transparent…
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How about an…
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“INVESTIGATION”
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…into how corrupt clerics inserted fake language into an official document and why this document was released without the knowledge and permission of Francis ( 😉 ).
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Remember, fresh air is the best disinfectant.
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Maybe we should start a petition?
…and if you haven’t seen this yet…
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“Pope Francis allows Sistine Chapel to be rented out for private corporate event”
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Link here:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/the-pope/11168027/Pope-Francis-allows-Sistine-Chapel-to-be-rented-out-for-private-corporate-event.html
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TD writes:
“Pope Francis has for the first time allowed the Sistine Chapel to be rented out for a private corporate event, with the proceeds to go to charities working with the poor and homeless.”
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It’s for the “children” so it must be ok. 😉
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The church of Francis… where reality subsists in parody. 😉
Scandal… or not? You decide.
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Record Building Costs in the Archdiocese of Munich and No “Swank Cardinal” – Campagne — The Background.
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Story here:http://eponymousflower.blogspot.com/2014/10/record-building-costs-in-archdiocese-of.html
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Cd. Marx, is the real “bishop of bling” 😉
Most excellent post by Mundabor (as usual). And something that all readers of this blog should take to heart.
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The bishops are now the enemy, and punishment will be swift!
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Link here:http://mundabor.wordpress.com/2014/10/17/how-to-stop-a-bully-actually-two/
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Mundabor writes:
“But if the bishops are smart, they will realise that Francis isn’t the type to forgive and forget. Look at the FFI. Francis will make promises to them today, and punish them tomorrow. Those who have resisted the certainly immense pressure of the last days must understand that they are beyond the point of no return. They are the enemy now. If he has his way, Francis will have no mercy of them. They are safe of punishment only if they speak loudly now.
How do you stop the bullying?
You denounce the heresy. You let the heretical bubo explode. You put Catholicism in front of the choice: Truth and Christ, or Francis and Kasper.
Give TMAHICH some good lio.
See how he likes it.
M”
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Let me say again (in Mundabor’s words):
“Those who have resisted the certainly immense pressure of the last days must understand that they are beyond the point of no return.”
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Looks like the “end game” of the Bergoglian papacy is upon us. 🙂
This aggression will not stand, man.
And while most of us are asleep, this from Italy… 🙂
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“Blue Thursday: The orthodox counter-offensive at the Synod
– “such a day had never happened before, not even at Vatican II”
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RC has the story: http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2014/10/blue-thursday-orthodox-counter.html#more
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Key points:
1) They say that a confrontation like this had never been seen before, perhaps not even at the Council.
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2) Against the novelty presented by Baldisseri, rose up Cardinal George Pell, who strongly contested the decision. After him, a long line of Fathers, from the Archbishop of Brussels, Abp. Léonard, to that of Durban, Cardinal Napier, asked for the matter to be at least put to a vote.
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3) Even the Secretary of State took the floor.
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4) And all in the atmosphere of a stadium, with standing ovation and even some booing.
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5) At the end, as Cardinal Christoph Schönborn would say some hours later at the press conference, “the decision to render public the relationes of the circuli was taken by large majority.”
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6) The texts are clear, and go in an opposite direction as the one upheld by Cardinal Walter Kasper.
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7) The most controversial and delicate points, from the question of the approaching of remarried divorcees to the Eucharist to the overture to homosexual unions, were dismantled almost unanimously.
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8) That also because, as more than one Synod Father said, very little had been said of the unions between persons of the same sex – not more than three interventions in the assembly -and yet Monday’s Relatio spoke about it ad abundantiam.
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9) On the third point, that of difficult pastoral situations, the thrashing was total: “The doctrine of the Church on the indissolubility of matrimony and non-admission of the remarried divorced to the sacraments of reconciliation and the Eucharist cannot be changed.”
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A total victory for the Holy Spirit and the Church of Our Lord. :
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Post script from New Catholic:
P.S. To understand the huge power yielded by Cardinal Baldisseri (who also was, let us remember with great care, the Secretary of the 2013 Conclave, for which he was awarded the cardinalatial red zucchetto by the newly-elected pope on the spot) and his procedural henchmen, this text published by Sandro Magister today is useful: he who controls the procedures guides the assemblies and usually reaches his ends. Baldisseri will not take this revolt lightly, and he will respond still now, if possible, and certainly at the even more careful crafting of the 2015 assembly. He yields great power as well because he obviously knows things almost no one else knows.
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Yes indeed. The forces of Evil will not take this lightly. Vengeance will be exacted!
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SATANIC SECRET SYNOD OF SIN II in 2015. 🙂
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There is an old Italian saying that vengeance is like desert, tasted best when served cold. 😉
James wrote:
“What do you mean what is Burke going to do? He’s spoken out and written a book. He’s ONE MAN!”
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With all due respect James, you really need to start watching the movie.
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Don’t let the soundbites coming out of the MSM fool you.
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God bless you!
S.A.
Dear James,
No? You don’t see bad fruits as a result of the implementation of John XXIII’s plans to bypass the “prophets of doom and gloom?” i.e. his failing to consecrate Russia or take Our Lady of Fatima’s warnings seriously and his relying on novel ideas like Vatican “ecumenical”diplomacy and the new ecumenism instead, as the reason the world now thinks the Church no longer teaches what it did for 2,000 years? You don’t see lack of good catechesis over the last 50 years, resulting from the confusion of VII, resulting in apostasy? We grant you the gay clergy is a huge problem, but the watering down of the Faith was done by many Catholics in positions of authority–including nuns, lay teachers, university professionals, etc. and the VII laissez-faire attitude at the top let it grow to the point where dissent became the norm. Paul VI (soon to be canonized) saw the smoke of Satan entering the Church, and the “suicide” of altering the Liturgy was predicted by Pius XII well before that.
Post Blue Thursday summary… from Mundabor.
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The day the pussycats roared!
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Link here: http://mundabor.wordpress.com/2014/10/17/the-day-the-pussycat-roared/
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“One feels today as if Liberius or Honorius had been publicly denounced by their own bishops. It is as if the Ottaviani Intervention had gathered with it the Conciliar Fathers as one man. It is so big.”
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“Further battles lie before us, and particularly before the bishops. The Jesuit will come back with a vengeance, and no trick or weapon will be left unused. The bishops must understand what is going on, and resist as one man, denouncing all of them every attempt at intimidation made to one of them. They are (largely, and loosely, but still…) on the side of orthodoxy. There is no way in hell a Pope can fight them en masse and save face.”
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It was the day the pussycat roared. These things do not happen simply out of human forces.
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and finally…
“But something, I think, has now changed forever. This slap cannot be “un-slapped”. He has been exposed as a liar, a hypocrite, and a manipulator. May this not be said with these exact words, the substance of what the Bishops have said and done yesterday is clear. The bucks stops at the Pope.”
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Yes, sportfans. It’s that big. 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂
This is what astounds me about some people! They’re wondering if Pope Francis agrees with Kasper or not. Have they forgotten that just a few days ago, BORF was the one who appointed his own ad hoc committee made up of those who agree with Kasper?! I think these men are very, very old, and they underestimate the role played by social media (do any them have a cell phone or computer?) in the 21st century. Wake up, churchmen! You can’t have “secret” synods in the 21st century! We know what you’re up to before you do it! This isn’t 1962!
As for the Kasper interview, we now know he’s not only a racist, but a liar too.
UPDATE:
Note 2: What several commentators are saying, we repeat with even greater vehemence: the situation of Card. Kasper and Abp. Forte is untenable from now onwards. Kasper has now been publicly revealed, thanks to the Pentin interview and his denial, as not only a man filled with incomprehensible and anti-Christian racial superiority, but as a liar and a perverter of truth. Forte, as a dangerous manipulator who single-handedly tried to destroy the permanent and unchangeable doctrine of the Church on several sensitive issues, in particular homosexuality, by fiat with no support whatsoever from the Synod Fathers. They were both strongly rebuffed by an Assembly which had been fashioned and manipulated by Baldisseri to be only glorified yes-men, but worked out differently
The “catholic” church ceased to be Catholic 50 years ago when it allowed the desecration of the Holy Eucharist (Eucharistic Ministers, Communion in the hand, removal of the altar rails et.) It was at the point that all “believing” bishops should have said: “That’s it—I’m out of here!” They could have aligned themselves with Bishop Lefebvre and held on to all things Traditional. Here we are 50 years later and some “good” bishops, cardinals etc. are speaking up. What will they DO when the Synod is over and the Modernists continue on this destructive path. Let’s wait and see!!!
Don’t insult me sir.
There was no insult intended.
If declaring VII bad will expel all the homos and heretics then I’m all for it.
Both need to be EXCOMMUNICATED!
The thing that struck me most from Kasper’s interview by Zenit was in the last paragraph: Kasper denied that they would change anything, but that things would be “different.” Seems to me to be a perfect nutshell definition of Modernism: re-affirmation of doctrine, but “different” application.
Paul VI had to be bragging when he said that about the Smoke of Satan entering the Church, since he was the one who opened the door.
And, if he wasn’t a cryptojew, can someone explain to me why he used to wear the Ephod and was buried in a wooden unmarked casket, and there were no crucifixes present during the Vigil?
Or is that another “caricature” from silly silly Sedevacantists.
I await, yet again, the wise opinions from the snoopy anonymous generic-named champions of the faith around here..
The fact most clergy today would have been jailed and/or executed by the Holy Inquisition just a few centuries ago would be exhilarating, if it wasn’t so tragic.
And who could do that? Francis? Ahah
He could. But you know as well as I he won’t.
….and upon a second reading, another interesting tidbit of info..
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“African cardinal: Pressure groups behind push to change Church teaching.”
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Link here:http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/african-cardinal-pressure-groups-behind-push-to-change-church-teaching-48097/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+catholicnewsagency%2Fdailynews+%28CNA+Daily+News%29&utm_term=daily+news
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“Cardinal Robert Sarah, president of the Pontifical Council Cor Unum, emphasized to CNA Oct. 16 that “what has been published by the media about homosexual unions is an attempt to push the Church (to change) her doctrine.”
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It’s all about the Kirchensteuer or a variation there of. 🙂
If this Synod has given the faithful a moment of clarity in which the faithful understand things in the manner of Our Lord perhaps it is time the Church reconsider certain of its recent teachings in view of this newfound clarity.
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For example, the ecclesiology of VII when applied to the domestic church – the family – has been grating to the ears of the faithful over the past week. Objectively and gravely sinful states of life have the same elements of “truth” and “good” as sacramental marriage? While this may be true in a natural sense, it certainly isn’t true in a supernatural sense. Those who persist in objectively and gravely sinful states of life are deprived of sanctifying grace unlike the faithful who faithfully persevere in marriage. Those who remain in these objectively sinful states place their immortal souls at risk!
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Then we have the spectacle of those not in gravely sinful states of life who are nonetheless sympathetic to such people. These other people have never been comfortable with the spiritual work of mercy that requires the faithful to admonish sinners. So they come up with this false formulation that the Church has to be “welcoming” to unrepentant mortal sinners. And that those who honor the spiritual work of mercy by admonishing the unrepentant are sinful themselves! They are intolerant! Of course they are intolerant! They are intolerant of their fellow men and women putting their immortal souls at risk!
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If application to the family clearly reveals the falsity of the ecclesiology of VII perhaps it is UNIVERSALLY false as well – like when it is applied to the “family” of believers. For example, those who persist in sects and hold heretical positions vis a vis the faith and at the same time deprive themselves of the sacraments equally place their immortal souls at risk. Although these sects may have “elements” of the truth, so what? The faith is integral! To please God we have to hold the faith whole and undefiled!
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As the faithful we do these people no good whatsoever by practicing so-called “ecumenism” that confirms those trapped in sects in their false beliefs and practices. The only real duty we have to such people is to convert them! Pray that this Synod persuades the leaders of the Church to reject the false ecclesiology of VII.
Pope Benedict’s comment about gay marriage being a threat to humanity was, I agree, a problem for the lavender mafia in the Church. But it goes far beyond that, IMO. After all, it wasn’t just the homo clergy and hierarchy that composed the heretical parts of the Council. Pope St. Pius X wrote Pascendi because he saw the grave errors of the Modernists, who are still with us. I do think that the latest scheme by some bishops to support “irregular unions” is just a way to clear the path for acceptance of homosexuality, which will lead to an acceptance of homo clergy, similar to what the Anglicans accept. I think that the Modernists have grown tired of waiting for change, and pushed Benedict out to make room for a certifiable modernist. Benedict is a modernist, too, but a lightweight when compared to Francis.
I’ve never heard this, can you post a link?
I wish that I could share the optimism by shown by the articles currently from La Stampa regarding the counter-offensive. The article from La Stampa says that Cardinal Timothy Dolan sided with Cardinal Burke. I don’t see how that’s possible. There’s no way that Dolan can side with traditional teaching, and I don’t believe it. We still need to be wary; the Modernists may have lost a round, but it’s only the first round. The fight isn’t over, not by a long shot.
That’s what I thought too. Dolan?!?!?
Their enemies are our friends.
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Homo activist group hopes to influence family synod!
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Good guys:
Its campaign will target bishops including Cardinal Francis George of Chicago, Archbishop Salvatore Cordileone of San Francisco, Archbishop John Nienstedt of St. Paul-Minneapolis, Archbishop Dennis Schnurr of Cincinnati, U.S. bishops’ conference president and Kentucky Archbishop Joseph Kurtz of Louisville, Archbishop Charles Chaput of Philadelphia, Archbishop William Lori of Baltimore and Bishop Thomas Paprocki of Springfield, Ill.””
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Evil:
Among the Human Rights Campaign’s corporate partners are large corporations like American Airlines, Apple, Google, Microsoft, Bank of America, Northrop Grumman, Chevron, Lexus, Goldman Sachs, Coca-Cola and PepsiCo.
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This is serious money folks.
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And the bishop almost unanimously resisted the heretical pope and his henchmen.
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Deo Gratias.
James:
It’s nothing short of a miracle.
James my response to you is awaiting moderation due to the links in it, if everything else fails just bing/Google Paul VI+ephod
Same for “masonry” and “jew” and the like. Then carefully check the sources and try to avoid the fluff
Indeed. Was it Dolan that was amazed by the Faith of the African Bishops? Maybe that was a factor?
One can see the great damage accomplished by “collegiality” (synods, councils, national conferences of bishops, etc). Archbishop Lefebvre predicted this several decades ago. The proper governance model of the Church is for each bishop to rule his own diocese unimpeded by factions festering inside both Church and State. There are, of course, good bishops and bad bishops in the Church. The good that the good bishops do is minimized by the bad bishops through the context of collegiality, where consensus voting and policy decisions are made. The end result is that a good bishop loses decision making power and control in his own diocese. This is obvious in the “stripping of the altars,” communion in the hand, and all the other deviations that occurred after the Second Vatican Council, which didn’t mandate any of those things.
Correction: I mistakenly wrote that it was the La Stampa article which stated that Dolan sided with Burke. But it was actually the IL Foglio article featured by Rorate Caeli that stated this. My mistake – I got the two mixed up.
Reservations about Paul VI beatification.
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Link here: http://sspx.org/en/news-events/news/reservations-beatifying-pope-paul-vi-5251
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“But Paul VI is also the Pope who saw Vatican II to its conclusion, thereby introducing in the Church a doctrinal liberalism manifested especially in errors such as religious liberty, collegiality, and ecumenism. The result was an upheaval which he himself admitted on December 7, 1968, in the following words: “The Church is now confronted with uncertainty, self-criticism, one might almost say self-destruction. As if the Church were doing violence to Herself.” The following year he conceded: “In many areas the Council has not yet put us at peace; it has rather stirred up trouble and difficulties which are useless for reinforcing the Kingdom of God in the Church and in souls.” He went so far as to give this dire warning on July 29, 1972: “The smoke of Satan has entered the temple of God through some crack: doubt, incertitude, dissension, worry, discontent, and conflict are plain to see…” But he was merely stating a fact, while failing to take those measures capable of stopping the self-destruction.”
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After the Synod bishops revolt of Blue Thursday, maybe it might be a good time to stop this “VII Hall of Fame” nonsense.
Sure Bert, here we go!
Whenever I see another bitter, know-it-all invective against the SSPX or any other non-SV trad group I wonder how it is they’ve all safely concluded duress could never be established in any of these cases.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
My personal hunch is that the multitude of irregularities and heretical statements coming out of the Novus Ordo is the direct result of not only Satanic/Communist/Masonic infiltration, but also of extreme threat of force by the same unless a certain plan of action was taken. It’s increasingly clear to me that Communism planned it’s own apparent political demise in hopes of delivering a killing blow to the Church, beginning with Vatican II. Perhaps these Popes from John XXIII onward thought that they could buy some time while they attempted to work around the framework handed down to them. Given the extremely suspicious circumstances revolving around JPI’s death, it’s not hard to imagine a very imminent threat of death or severe persecution hanging above the Chair of St. Peter. Their failure to defend the faith has allowed the near total eclipse of the True Church. At any moment in time they could use their valid office to utterly destroy the satanic deception. Until then, Sede Obscuro.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I do not doubt that many of them could have been grave personal sinners (which also metaphysically excommunicates them) but we can’t wave our personal speculations in front of others as somehow universally binding. We need a good Pope or the Second Coming to end this apostasy, though to endure it we need the Latin Mass. Thankfully, we don’t need the continual explicit approval from any given Pope to have the Mass of all time.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
We might agree that it will take a saintly Pope to correct these issues, but the SV’s have either run out of worthy priests/bishops/cardinals to make that happen, or they pretend to have elected a true “Pope” already, or they have come to the conclusion that it’s just better to pray the Rosary at home on Sundays. True traditionalists can recognize the spark of the true magisterium and will fan the flames whether they fall on an SSPX bishop or a mainstream priest, cardinal, or bishop. The SSPX has not been completely blameless in the conduct of some of its priests and bishops, but the resistance they established which enabled all other traditionalists, real or imagined, to draw the courage and strength from to even make the first step back to the true Mass will see us through to a glorious restoration… be it on a cloud or on the ground.
Here at Rome a audacious but perhaps naive religious petitioned the most “Convservative” Cardinal on the drafting committee to remove offensive language and got a brusk rebuke from him
http://fromrome.wordpress.com/2014/10/17/ifyouhavedoubts/
So if anyone has any doubts that the entire drafting committee appointed by the Pope are heretics, they have them no more. And what does that make the Pope. I’d wish he’d just come out and say it, so the Church here at Rome could excommunicate him!
God bless Br. Bugnolo for calling Cardinal Napier to task, and to implore the Cardinal (a synod Father who represents the African contingent) to stand up for Christ and His Church. Sadly, the Cardinal doesn’t seem up to the task. But at least Br. Bugnolo tried to do something direct, which is commendable.
Max,
so what you are saying is the KGB forced Paul VI to wear the ephod, reform the Mass and then be buried in a bare wooden casket?
Yes because obviously the only way for him to be excommunicated is saying in worldvision “I am a heretic, please excommunicate me”
It would indeed be a wonderful thing if the Pope were to be excommunicated, but right now, the fall guys are Kasper and Forte. But their fall is probably only temporary. The Pope is like the Teflon Man. Dirt doesn’t officially stick to him, and he says very little that may implicate him directly in the current Synod scandal. I hope that this will change, though. Kasper and Forte also deserve to be excommunicated, but they could not have been able to do what they did without the Pope enabling them at the very least implicitly.
Add Marx & Schonborn to the list, they also support Forte’s homoheresy.
Here’s a reporting regarding “Cardinal” Marx’s statements:
–
http://voiceofthefamily.info/wordpress/?p=441
–
These men are heretics. Cardinal Marx needs to be asked exactly where in divine revelation or the magisterium any support is found for his position.
–
Regarding the pope, it is clear the fix was in on this heretic as well. His bff forever is rabbi that pushes homosexuality when among the goyim. This was known from before his elevation so it is hardly surprising that the pope is now pushing a sodomite-friendly agenda.
–
And for those who still believe Pope Benedict is a fried of tradition and the church keep in mind that it was he who consecrated Forte bishop:
–
http://www.remnantnewspaper.com/Archives/archive-ratzinger%20consecrates.htm
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It appears to me that this is all orchestrated to cause a schism in the church.
Cardinal Burke speaks out against Francis!
http://www.buzzfeed.com/lesterfeder/conservative-cardinal-who-clashed-with-pope-francis-confirms?utm_term=1gk9lky#46sirtf
As is apparent from the Remnant article, Archbishop Forte is apparently a change agent that has been groomed for his role in this travesty. His name was being bandied about at one time for the head of the CDF – the penultimate choke point in the Church after the papal office. This is what happens when a generation of Catholics practice birth control and consecrate their worst to the service of the Lord instead of their best.
Dear James:
After this Synod is over, I think there will be much analysis and soul searching.
_____
There are several “unintended consequences” that have come out of this diabolical, satanical synod prepared by these vile individuals.
++++
The largest unintended consequence is that the modernists appear to be very small in number, by the looks of Blue Thursday.
++++
Next, the homolobby has been exposed for all to see. And by the looks of things, it is very much centered around the Curia. Doesn’t look like its tentacles reach to deep into the bishop’s conferences. Think about it, “no more than 3” of the presenters said anything relating to the aberrosexuals. Another surprising development if you ask me. Therefore, one can easily understand why they are so vicious at guarding their turf, and why they had to get rid of Benedict. My observation is that they can very easily be swept away since they are all in one place. And Benedict had them identified. Wonder if he has a second set of documents since the set he gave to Francis has long been discarded.
+++++
Another huge loser is the so called Main Stream Media. They look like something out of a Joseph Goebbels propaganda ministry, and the lack of all sense of objectivity and fairness is there for all to see. The most corrupt of them all is this new “trojan horse” produced by NYT/BostonGlobe/Crap/Crux. They don’t care how corrupt the Sin Synod was, as long as they got the correct result. And they brag about it.
+++++
As for the bishops themselves, the thing that is striking is how those bishops that everyone, myself included, expected to fold, started acting like real men. First time in 50 years that catholic bishops acted like they “got a pair”.
____
Anyways, maybe this is a watershed moment for the Bride of Christ. If for no other reason, than because a wide cross section of the global episcopate got a first hand encounter with that diabolical product that is the Vatican II “spirit”. In other words, they were played, and hard. Wonder how long it will take them to connect the dots, and realize that they are in the sad state of affairs today, because in another time, these same types of “fraudsters” pulled a fast one on their forebearers and created this disaster commonly known as the conciliar church, the nightmare in which they are trying to work out their salvation and lead the souls in their care to heaven.
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And God help them if they don’t take away this lesson but rather continue merrily in there collective delusion.
Just look at those comments below the article.
…. another gem from Mundabor.
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This time he takes aim at the VII heresy.
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Makes a rather prescient comparison of VII, communism and a lady of questionable virtue.
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Must read for all, especially the clergy who visit this blog.
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Link here: http://mundabor.wordpress.com/2014/10/17/after-mad-monday-a-new-forward-looking-hermeneutic-for-the-second-vatican-council/
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Scipio Africanum would be proud. 🙂
Dear Bert:
With respect to the comment box, this is the one that I think is the important one:
+++
““I’m afraid sometimes we in the West might say, ‘Oh, I guess we gotta dilute things, I guess we gotta capitulate. Obviously this teaching is being rejected. Oh, my Lord, we’re not popular!’ And the African [Bishops] say, ‘Well, you know what? We’re not supposed to be!’”
++++
The commenter: one Cardinal Dolan.
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It doesn’t matter what is said in the comment box of a tabloid. What’s important is that the hierarchy …..GETS IT.
_____
Just think of the power of 1.4 billion Catholics just saying no ….to Coke would have on the aberrosexual agenda. 😉
Bert,
After what transpired in the Mass, the ephod is an afterthought. You could say VII and the NO Mass was like throwing an ephod over the entire Church. What I am saying is that you cannot discount deadly pressure from without as PVI was also one of the most effeminate men we’ve ever seen in the office. Effeminate men are rarely so bold, there has to be a stronger personality at work behind the changes.
++++++++++++++++++++
The reason I say Satanic/Communist/Masonic is that Communism is the political ideology of that brings with it the physical force needed to put things into play, the Masons are the change agents and both entities have their origin with Satan. Cornelia Ferreira’s work on the “Perestroika Deception Updated” is a good reminder of what Russia isn’t yet and that we still need a Pope to take that consecration right through the rotten heart of the Global Soviet. Only after this takes place will we start to see true and lasting progress.
More background on the SATANIC SECRET SYNOD OF SIN.
______
Let’s talk numbers, shall we?
______
Link: (http://www.thecatholicthing.org/synod_report/synod_report/synod-day-11-some-numbers.html)
+++++
“While we’re talking about such numbers, by the way, it’s just come out, from reliable sources, that only two of the Synod’s bishops pushed the outreach to gays, which took up four whole sections of the Relatio — and which, therefore, gave a vey different impression of the place such ideas occupied in the overall work of the Synod.”
______
Got that? 2 bishops push homo-agenda!
No doubt Schonborn was one of them. Anybody want to wager who the second one was?
______
Next:
” I will make a low estimate that half of the 58 sections, which are not long (that’s the whole of 25), are of a similar nature. So if there are fewer than 30 or so with some debatable material and 700 requested modifications (modi), there could be more than 20 per section. Actually, if you bore in on where most of the action is, there are probably at least 40-50 points of debate on the tougher sections.”
_____
MSM was reporting “slight edits of a few mistranslated words”, aye?
_____
And this:
“In addition, though there has been no little effort on the part of spokesmen to characterize everything as just business as usual in a process of this sort, there were roughly 700 requested modifications to the text. So many, in fact, that Fr. Federico Lombardi, Director of the Vatican Press Office, expressed some doubt whether the work on the final report will be done by the end of the Synod Saturday evening.
A reporter asked: so how do the participants vote on the final text then? A good questions without a good answer, and even Fr. Lombardi had to laugh about it.”
______
I’m glad that Fr. Lombardi thinks it’s funny that the bishops might not be able to vote on the final text.
______
What I guess is real funny is that we are talking about a vote under a absolute monarch who acts like a communist dictator. 🙂
Mundabor has the best line of the day:
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The “Hermenutic of burning to the ground and spreading salt over the ruins” is the only one that will solve the problem once and for all.
—
He’s talking about trashing VII but it would fit the Synod, no?
—
There’s only one thing to be thankful for right now. This will end on Sunday and we will have a little peace and quiet before we have to start the war all over again…and I know it’s looming.
“Talk like a man day”? It’s kind of hard to stomach his praising Pope Francis’s wonderful emphasis for keeping to the teachings of Christ and fidelity to the Traditions of the Church to be lived out in mercy and love. Upon reflection, he may have been reserving the wonderful emphasis solely to the “mercy and love” part.
I just finished listening to two lectures from VideoSancto. Both slightly over an hour each but packed with great information.
Where we are. How we got here. What we need to do Part I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ac2ZPbxSoJ0
Part II
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtFmJw75Rs4
He’s looking more like an anti-Pope or anti-Christ each day. From day one, I had this interior feeling that something was not right. He confirms that discernment each day. The true Pope is a prisoner in the Vatican Gardens.
My Tweet to the BofR for the night: One word from you can stop the attack on Holy Church by those in charge at the synod. (Roughly—I have forgotten my exact words…)
It does make me feel better to say something even if it is not read. And just as there are people who cannot resist a facebook message, there are probably hirelings checking on the Pope’s account who can’t resist just one look. I pray that they see my message, or that of another Catholic using the Pope’s site to campaign for the true Faith.
Uh oh, here comes Car’nal Marx right on cue!
http://www.cfnews.org/page88/files/44f018f50859b5748c7dca333f749580-282.html
Cardinal Burke finally makes it explicit that the Pope is responsible:
http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.ie/2014/10/burke-confirms-yes-pope-has-demoted-me.html?m=1
It’s beginning. 🙂
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“If Francis doesn’t soon make it clear that the synod can’t abandon Catholic teaching, his pontificate could spin out of control.”
____
Link here: http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/commentandblogs/2014/10/17/if-francis-doesnt-soon-make-it-clear-that-the-synod-cant-abandon-catholic-teaching-his-pontificate-could-spin-out-of-control/
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“Things are getting seriously out of control now. The Holy Father clearly doesn’t like being “dogmatic”: but it’s part of what he’s for, and he needs now to assert himself, for if he doesn’t, everyone will go on thinking that what has happened so far is what he wanted all along.
++++
“Cardinal Burke: In my judgment, such a statement (reaffirming the Faith) is long overdue. The debate on these questions has been going forward now for almost nine months, especially in the secular media but also through the speeches and interviews of Cardinal Walter Kasper and others who support his position. The faithful and their good shepherds are looking to the Vicar of Christ for the confirmation of the Catholic faith and practice regarding marriage which is the first cell of the life of the Church.”
+++++
“Long overdue” is a mild expression; what needs to be said is that such an intervention is needed with desperate urgency, and that if it does not come soon, this pontificate could spin entirely out of control.”
______
Ah yes. All the scheming has left Francis between the proverbial “rock and the hard place”.
_____
Way to go, Francis. 🙂
… ahhh, the fingerprints. 🙂
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“Pope’s fingerprints all over the effort to control the synod! – See more at: http://lesfemmes-thetruth.blogspot.com/2014/10/popes-fingerprints-all-over-effort-to.html#more”
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Link: http://lesfemmes-thetruth.blogspot.com/2014/10/popes-fingerprints-all-over-effort-to.html#more
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“Pope Francis’ stacking the writing group reminded me of FDR’s attempt to stack the Supreme Court. If you want your agenda to prevail, that’s one way to do it, but it sure tips your hand.”
_____
“What rang out clearly in the Synod was the necessity for courageous pastoral choices,” the report claims. These choices were presented in terms of “the law of gradualness”, the only reference to the rich teaching of St Pope John Paul II, otherwise ignored by the Synod. But it is used in a way that contradicts what he meant.
.
Betrayal is right and it has the pope’s fingerprints all over it.
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Courageous. WTF?
______
As courageous as producing an anti-sematic film during the Third Reich. 🙂
And the priests start weighing in….
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“Synod and Sanity: A Reliably Catholic Priest Weighs In”
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Link: http://www.onepeterfive.com/synod-sanity-reliably-catholic-priest-weighs/
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” Christians today in most parts of the world find themselves in a world much like the one inhabited by the first Christians – rampant sexual license, abortion, contraception, family break-down. Those early Christians took a counter-cultural stance, echoing Gideon: “As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord!” (Josh 24:15). The Church’s pastoral workers – teachers, preachers, counselors – have the grave responsibility to provide families with the encouragement to live counter-culturally, never succumbing to the decadence and depravity which surround us.”
______
Finally, we are speaking in historical terms.
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“Progress” is nothing more than regressing to a former less developed state. 🙂
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I’ve often wondered why progressives are so fascinated by primitive art. 🙂
PS:
“We have also heard a good amount of talk about mercy. Mercy means that something wrong has been done, meriting a just punishment. If a husband has hurt his wife, his request for mercy rings hollow and is impertinent if he shows no sign of repentance and does not promise never to offend in that way again. God’s justice is offended by sin and the clarion call of Jesus at the outset of His public ministry was very direct: “Repent, and believe in the good news” (Mk 1:15). There can be no legitimate claim to the good news of the Gospel without a prior commitment to repentance – and it is a particular duty of Christ’s ministers to call all the faithful incessantly to such repentance. Only then does mercy mean anything.
_____
A paragraph that should be committed to memory by each and every Catholic.
Dear Mike,
Please don’t confuse the form with the substance. 😉
____
The Italians have a saying that a man speaks to his wife, so that his mother-in-law understands. 🙂
Something of interest for readers. 🙂
______
Fr. Dariusz Oko is doing a lecture with Q&A on the 21st of October at Warsaw University.
______
He will be taking questions both on Twitter and via email.
______
The translation of the story is below:
“Polish Association of Youth opens a new season of meetings with the cycle Hyde Park. This time, the guest “in the walls” of the University of Warsaw will be Fr. dr hab. Dariusz Oko of the University of John Paul II in Krakow. The meeting will be held on Tuesday, October 21 at 20:15 in the Hall of the Old University Library.
…….
Your comments throughout the debate can be shared either directly or through the Internet. On Twitter, the hash tag is #HydePark under which you can upload questions. The organizers also encourage contact with the mailbox (kontakt@mlodzidlapolski.pl).
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For those not familiar with Fr. Oko’s work, let me just say that he is probably the foremost authority on the homo-heresy and the pederasty/ephebophilia phenomenon that is afflicting the present Church.
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Please feel free to take advantage of this forum.
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I think it could become quite the topic in the coming months. 😉
More post “Shameful Synod” reflections.
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IMPORTANT: The Backlash Against the Manipulated Synod of Francis
– Snippets from a Rome in Disbelief after 18 Months of Fear Under Pressure””
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Story at RC as usual, here: http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2014/10/important-backlash-against-manipulated.html#more
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Anonymous writes:
“In this series of faits accomplis, the first week relatio, written by Archbishop Bruno Forte before the Synod, was to have been a dazzling step: and everyone knows here in Rome that Francis knew, read, and approved it for publication. Nothing of this size happens in this most personalistic and egocentric of papacies without the direct knowledge of the Pope. What was unexpected, but should not have been, was that, despite the intense pressure, the majority decided that it was more Wojtylian than Bergoglian.
+
“I have spoken to a huge number of prelates in the past few days, many of them Synod Fathers. They are all furious and indignant with Francis. A president of a Conference of Bishops of a large African country even called him to my face “an agent of disruption.” The right word to describe the general atmosphere reigning in the Curia and the Synod, after 18 months of a government imposed by fear and persecution, is one I’ve heard several times in the past week: “esasperazione” (“exasperation”). The experiences of the past century show that a government of fear and manipulation cannot subsist for long without rebellion, and that was what erupted on Thursday. It was as if a pressure cooker exploded at the end of an 18-month-long simmering.”
+
“In any event, the 2014 Synod is just a step of a path in which Francis and his allies are making many mistakes, many derived from their unending hubris, and un unexpected resistance is showing itself – a resistance that is being minimized by the mainstream press throughout the world.”
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The Bergoglian papacy: Terror subsisting in falsehood.
…more info emerging.
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This time from the forces of Evil.
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Marx speaks.
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Link here:http://www.religionnews.com/2014/10/17/sparring-continues-catholic-bishops-prepare-synods-final-report/
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Key passages:
1) One cardinal reportedly threatened to walk out of the synod hall if changes were not made.
.
2) The cardinal also reaffirmed that a majority of German bishops backed fellow German Cardinal Walter Kasper’s proposal to seek ways to allow divorced and remarried Catholics to receive Holy Communion.
+
Note: So now it is not “unanimous” w/r/t the German bishops. So much for the “letter” 😉
+
3) “What will be the final word? I cannot predict that,” Marx said. “But I can tell you we German bishops are isolated on this position.”
+
Note: So much for the Kasper statement that the Synod was behind his position.
+
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So now the fog of war is lifting and we see the true picture: it was JUST SOME OF THE GERMANS, Jorge’s and the homo-henchmen. 🙂
…and this. Mundabor’s Secret Mission. 😉
____
Saving the Bergoglian papacy.
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Link here: http://mundabor.wordpress.com/2014/10/17/saving-pope-bergoglio-mundabors-secret-mission/
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Mundabor writes:
“Your Holiness”, I say.
“Si?”
“I would have a small suggestion. If I may”.
“Si? Si?? Habla, Mundabor! Parla, uh?”
“It might be advisable – I say with just a tad of hesitation too much – to announce that the Church renounces to the Kirchensteuer. A poor Church for the poor, Holy Father. Just as you always say!”
++++
“It is very simple, Santita’ “, I say to Francis. “In the same way as, starting from the Seventies, the Church insisted in divesting Herself of Her privileges as State Religion in Countries like Spain, or accepted to lose them without saying one word in countries like Italy, the Governments of Austria, Germany and Switzerland (and in case, Liechtenstein and Luxembourg) could be simply informed that the Church will not participate in the collection system of the Kirchensteuer anymore, getting out of it altogether and relying simply on individual, tax-deductible donations and the substantial income from her own patrimony”.
++++
“The effective renunciation to the Kirchensteuer will enhance your reputation all over the world, overnight! The press will praise your idealistic attitude. The liberal priests will proclaim you “the Pope of the Poor”. Give it three days, and no one will mention the huge blunder of the Synod (I feel light sabers on me again as I say this). In short, it will be for you the return to the good old “beach ball on the altar” times, when it seemed whatever stupid thing you did you could do no wrong!
++++
Continued:
(I am laughing so hard, it’s hard to cut and paste.)
“Furthermore”- I go on, emboldened – “the end of the Kirchensteuer will mean that there is no need for the Church to prostitute Herself to this unspeakable level. Millions of non-believers will stop paying overnight. The economic factor will simply cease to exist. No money for them means no trouble for you!”
.
The last words strike him like a lightning. He can now see clearly. Like a true Caudillo, he takes an immediate decision.
.
The Kirchensteuer will be abandoned everywhere. Lombardi and Rosica are put in charge of the biggest PR exercise even created. The friendly newspapers and magazines are all ordered to say how wonderful this is. A new interview with “Repubblica” is scheduled (“No recorder!” cries Kasper from the corner).
_____
Somehow, I don’t think Francis the Humble would act on this advice, even if it came straight from Ricca mouth. 😉
This is just toooo good.
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The reason Kasper was not present for Blue Thursday is that he was lecturing the night before in Vienna.
_____
EF has the scoop:http://eponymousflower.blogspot.com/2014/10/vienna-this-past-wednesday-october-15.html
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EF:
1) Although the full text of the lecture is not available, there is a a detailed article published by the Katholiche Austria Press Agency. It has Kasper quoted as saying: “The spirit of the Council is blowing in the Synod.”
.
Note* I guess Wednesday night , the “spirit of VII” was still blowing for Herr Kasper;)
.
2) According to Kasper: “The recent and increasingly bitter remarks about Cardinals Müller and Burke who are opposed, said Kasper, is contrasted instead by the work of the synod, where a climate of “confidence, joy and freedom” is found, which has been shown also in the interim report from last Monday.”
.
Note* All still under control, as far as the cardinal is aware. Climate in Synod is confident, joyful and gay…, I mean free. 😉
.
3) “The reform program, which Pope Francis Church had decreed was a ‘100 year program’, said Kasper, since it concerns all dimensions of being church in the attitude of every Christian.”
.
Note*. Got that? It’s a 100 year program. And we thought that Francis is on his last legs.
.
4) “… the success of the Pope […] therefore depends on whether we will be able to bring the awakening spirit to life in future pontificates.”
.
Note* That’s why he is appointing all those nut cases like the new clown in Chicago. It’s a transformational papacy. 😉
.
Hope the current bishops are reading this. 😉
.
5) EF comments: “The Church does not change Her fundamentals, because God does not change. Incidentally, the overbearing Kasperian concept of “100 year program” seems hardly compatible with the Pope’s “humble church.”
.
Note* Yea, what happened to that humble church thing?
.
6) “Nevertheless Cardinal Kasper has bandaged the pontificate of Pope Francis with the mood of a “new springtime”, so that among the participants in the Synod of Bishops, which comes to an end in a few days, observed the much-touted “Francis” effect.
.
Note*. Yes indeed. That “observable” “new springtime Francis effect” lasted until 09:00 the next morning when cd. Pell slammed his fist on the table and said non possumus. 😉
.
7) “With Francis, a “paradigm shift” has been completed. Accordingly, we could not squeeze him into the “familiar progressive-conservative schema” or determine to assign a “theological school of thought” to him”.
.
Note* I will agree here. We can’t squeeze Francis into a theological school because he doesn’t represent a theology. He is an ideologue, and we can sure as hell squeeze him a new-marxist leftist political ideology.
.
8) The German Cardinal even puts the Pope in connection with the widespread Latin American liberation theology.
.
Note*, Sure, why not. Bergoglio is a liberation ideologue, so it’s a natural fit. 😉
.
9) “the liberation theology of Jorge Mario Bergoglio builds on a special Argentine variant of a theology of the people and culture.
.
Note* Bergoglio is a cross between Che Guevara and Christina Fernandez de Kirchner. The latter must represent “the culture”. 🙂
.
10) “One should not play out the relationship between church doctrine and gospel against each other, says Kasper. This immediately raises the question, why is the Cardinal doing exactly that as regards the indispensable since at least February 2014.
.
Note* Details, details. Besides, logic is so un-dialectical.
_____
Mind boggling, if you ask me.
______
The thing that struck me is the 100 year plan. Reminds one of the Lysenkian agricultural reforms and Stalin’s Five Year Plans for the Transformation of Nature. And we all know how those panned out.
______
Delusional. Nothing more, nothing less. 😉
Yes Max,
OR all the VII popes were THEIR (puppet) candidates, as evidenced by their personal lives and behaviour even prior to their elections.
And what evidence do you have of John Paul I opposing in any way the “new way”? As far as I’ve seen he was enthusiastic about it.
So his death (murder, likely) had to be triggered by something else.
Who was really coerced and intimidated was Cardinal Siri, as documented profusely, as you probably know.
Insisting now on some imaginary Russian “communist” scheme today, with all Western countries controlled directly or indirectly by Freemasonic homofriendly invasion friendly NWO advocating governments is disingeneous at best, evil at worst.
Russia is the only nation with some semblance of “christian” values left, heretical, yes, but nonetheless more orthodox than the western “Champions of freedom”.
Yes, our own countries working to undermine and destroy it with all means possible, including funding islamic terrorists and neo-nazi Ukrainians bombing “Orthodox” churches and Killing “orthodox” “priests”.
I fear the Russia Conversion legitimate concern and expectations have now been hijacked by Masonic anti-russian interests.
Anyway, you went on this longwinded detailed verbal crusade (which I appreciate for the time and effort spent) but all I was asking is the SPECIFIC issue of Paul VI’s wearing of the Ephod and Casket etc.
What you typed looks like an attempt at derailing the conversation, as a common modus operandi I witness so often, with evanescent more or less plausible global shadowy hypothesis.
Aramaticus,
that is the stance a true Church should have kept for the last 60 years.
But the comments I was referring to, are a good approssimation of how most catholics think today, after having been left alone to secular propaganda all their lives, if not influenced by the “Church” herself with her asking-forgiveness-for-the-past position, be it the Crusades, the sack of Constantinople or Inquisition or “antisemitism”.
What those Young men are saying is NOT something completely alien, but heard in the past by Church officials themselves, or “catholic” publications and personalities.
Now, if all we have to cheer about is one single (obvious) line from one single person, I say “ok”, but how in Heaven are we supposed to bridge the gap between what the world perceives as “catholic” and what has been all this time, unbeknownst to virtually all (again, thanks to what should be the “Church”, directly and indirectly)?
I understand that throughout history, they say that Afghans don’t lose the war, they just change sides. I would think ++Dolan just keeps his options open. (Bucking for Francis II or maybe John Paul Francis the first?) (Sorry, I gotta go pour some Listerine in my brain now…)
Bert,
In my opinion, everything coming out of the curia for the past 50 years only makes sense in terms of Satanic (Communist/Masonic) infiltration and coercion. You and many other SVs claim that the VII Popes were themselves infiltrators, when it doesn’t necessarily follow that they must have been. Montini as a cryptojew doesn’t go anywhere far enough to explain the situation so I have to disagree. The jews are also being used in the ongoing dialectic and by the end of it, you’ll hardly be able to make out a single ingredient in the global religious stew. All you’re doing is setting up yet another strawman to be swatted away when the bigger issues at hand are staring you in the face.
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Mrs. Ferriera makes a good point about the application of Communism in various countries being tailored just for the demographic it rules over. Putin is not a religious man but he knows how to pander to the religious right. Sound familiar? It’s everywhere and in almost every country. You scoff at the communist label like it was some old 1950’s “duck and cover” advisory when the reality is, we have been so completely converted to Marxist principles under the “socialist” label that it doesn’t matter what you call it.
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What matters in the case of PVI is that he was soft and could easily be bent to any shape a ravenous spiritual-political superforce wanted to mold him in. His tendency wasn’t toward religiosity , it was much more in line with the modernist indifferentism. JPII would later take this to an entirely new level. There were many concessions made to Jews and other groups on the false hope (or pretext) that the new evangelization would lead to more converts and a stronger church. In the end it’s not jewish, muslim, christian, or even pagan; it’s a poorly written fiction which holds no meaning for anyone.
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The fact that JPI’s likely murder even when as you say he wasn’t a hardcore conservative is even worse when you consider it. At least they allowed Benedict to exit stage right without an outright assassination (which isn’t off the table yet). Not that Ratzinger is on the level with Pius X, but Pope Fran could make almost anyone look like an arch-conservative. If your Siri thesis is in fact true, then he’s worse than every single one of the VII Popes because he bowed down to each one of them up to JPII in complete obedience. He was also a no show when it came to resisting the NO Mass. Thankfully though he lived just long enough to help give street hustler Khoat Van Tran a chance to shine. The same Van Tran who would eventually sell a chapel to vietnamese buddhists…
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If you honestly believe a CryptoPope can be utterly and completely controlled for 30 years while he lived and breathed, how is it impossible to think funeral arrangements of a VII Pope could have been redirected? Besides that, an ephod does not a jew or rabbi make. You’re thinking too small for the crisis at hand.
Max,
another huge comment which has very little to do with the original topic.
I have no idea what Putin has to do with international marxism (except in some neocon’s hallucinatory piece of pr), and what do you mean by marxism? Critical Theory? Economic Marxism? Such as what? Is Welfare State a marxist concept?
“Montini as a cryptojew doesn’t go anywhere far enough to explain the situation so I have to disagree.”
I’m sorry what? Who reasons like this?
“The jews are also being used in the ongoing dialectic and by the end of it, you’ll hardly be able to make out a single ingredient in the global religious stew.”
Obviously we’re not talking about your run of the mill Orthodox Jews here.
Such as Montini or anyone involved wouldn’t have been.
“Mrs. Ferriera makes a good point about the application of Communism in various countries being tailored just for the demographic it rules over.”
I’m sorry but can you cite ONE real case in history where marxists faked being religious and pro-capitalists in order to achieve anything?
Besides, if Putin is the evil marxist mastermind, does that mean that Obama+EU are the good pro-globalisation pro-christian heroes? Or is that all just a ruse by the Global Marxist forces and a fake opposition?
“The fact that JPI’s likely murder even when as you say he wasn’t a hardcore conservative is even worse when you consider it. ”
Except we don’t know if he was murdered because/in spite of this and by whom.
“If your Siri thesis is in fact true, then he’s worse than every single one of the VII Popes because he bowed down to each one of them up to JPII in complete obedience.”
Mocking and or deriding Siri to make V:II popes look better is all well and good, but who cares? Are you doing this because you think I or some other of those nasty S.V. hold Siri in high regard ?
“If you honestly believe a CryptoPope can be utterly and completely controlled for 30 years while he lived and breathed”
He was not a crypto Pope. Maybe you didn’t read upon the subject.
Siri considered his Conclave oath seriously and probably his resignation valid.
There’s no evidence of continued pressure/control on his person after that.
Unless you know something you’d like to share with us?
On the topic of “control”. The idea that Siri or anyone (like ALL the V:II popes according to you) to have been forced to do stuff and act the part for DECADES without not even one single slip (or as you yourself say ” At any moment in time they could use their valid office to utterly destroy the satanic deception. Until then, Sede Obscuro.”) is utterly nonsensical.
This is the first time I’ve heard of it. Until now, the closest I encountered is the theory of JP:II being a hostage in St.Peter forced to publish “problematic” encyclicals in the latter part of his pontificate, unable to resist due to his failing health. Which of course, doesn’t make sense, as he always had the same stance, even as a Bishop and then Cardinal.
PS: SV do not have Popes, if they elect one they cease to be Sedevacantists.
There is so much “Inside baseball” material in Mundabor’s piece. It’s a keeper, for sure.
Bert,
I have clearly given you more than you deserve, chalk it up to my generous nature! I have addressed why PVI didn’t have to be a cryptojew to wear an ephod anymore than JPII had to be a pagan tribesman for wearing a pagan headdress. What denomination of jew goes on and on about the noble qualities of Islam? Besides that, the Vatican-Moscow pact is 100% documented. So while Vat II had no problem mentioning -jews, never once was communism or Marxism even mentioned. I mean, Montini was the Vatican representative to Moscow for the 1942 agreements, the very reason Pius XII refused to make him cardinal. Oh but he wore the rational of judgement… no communists around here, nope! The absence of crosses at his funeral could lead one to any number of scenarios, not the least of which is communist decorum.
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What does Francis have to say about communism?
“I can only say that the communists have stolen our flag. The flag of the poor is Christian. Poverty is at the center of the Gospel… Communists say that all this is communism. Sure, twenty centuries later. So when they speak, one can say to them: ‘but then you are Christian'”
Yeah, nothing to see here!
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Nearly every single major organized social movement in existence today follows the Marxist model for continual revolution. Thats effectively what Marxism is: incitement for perpetual rebellion. The special interest group is the new proletariat with an everpresent bourgeoisie controlling the means of privledge in the form of established cultural norms (read: Christian society or what’s left of it). Feminism has Women vs Men, LGBT has sexual deviants vs homophobes, ethnic minorities vs majorities, Jews vs Antisemites, Islam vs Islamophobes, science vs religion and on and on and on and on. It’s the same propaganda, the same call to action and there is hardly a social structure left that hasn’t been dismantled from the inside out. If all classes of society are made to be equal, it would be the utopian siamese twin of Marx’s classless society.
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Have you even heard of Gramsci? The push to dissolve true religion goes beyond any one sect, considering what we know about the tactics of the KGB and the well attested communist infiltration into the church back from the 1930s. That’s okay because they magically all went away during JPII’s pontificate, right? Vatican Bank scandal… no problem… Cardinal Marcinkus died a repentant old retired ex Vat bank Director the bad guys were all secular P2 members! Miracle of miracles! Nothing to worry about JPI’s death because it’s normal to die with your sleeves torn in bed.
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I’m only trying to open the topic back up, but it’s hard not to laugh when you accuse me of derailing your original PVI jewish strawman declaration in the middle of a discussion about the parallels between JXXIII and Francis. Not to worry though, Siri probably was elected and probably declined the offer and probably laid the groundwork for so many otherwise traditional catholics to stick a feather in their cap and call it macaroni. Though I probably have a feeling that you and I have a different idea of what “documented profusely” really means. Hint: Khoat Van Tran, Dimond Brothers and Novus Ordo Wire don’t cut it!
I’m well aware of the KGB tactics and in general communist infiltration in the Church.
I was mainly contesting your mentioning of Putin and Russia as still today the masterminds behind all of this, when our own countries are so imbued with marxism and freemasonry they are essentially a big chunk of today’s western zeitgeist.
Just think of “antiracism” “homophilia” “islamophobia” “feminism” “sexual-freedom” etc.
Basically they shaped from the 60s onwards what Western Civilisation is all about today (add to that illuminism).
Speaking of jews.. of course it must be a “strawmen” what I said about Paul VI (since he’s a “pope” aka you’d die before touching that subject), but it’s not like jews weren’t the main forces behind 1917 Revolution and then the CPSU itself.
Also really? You’re comparing comrade P.VI wearing the ephod on multiple occasions to JPII having on his head for a few minutes pagan trinkets PUT ON HIM by other people.
But thank you so much for your precious precious time and your priceless wisdom wasted on such a lowly worm such a myself. Such christian charity.
First, kudos for keeping this up days after its expiration date! Honestly, I like going the distance on a good topic. I don’t prefer to get into name calling and I wouldn’t call you a worm. I just take exception when many from the SV camps do their best to try to completely discredit the SSPX and that’s where my vitriol comes from. If the SSPX does go down by some new Vatican accord, then I gotta say the remnant will be so small, no one will be able to rely on much of anything. Most trad masses SVs consider “safe” are coming from former SSPX priests anyway so I find it particularly galling that they bite the hand that fed them. I’m not entirely sure where you stand on all that, but don’t give into that temptation should it arise.
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But back to the point at hand…
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Putin isn’t so much a mastermind as a major player, though Russia is the key our present situation. Now you may not be the biggest devotee of the Fatima message, but most traditionalists deeply respect it, including SVs. Why, if Jews are the bigger threat, does she refer to Russia’s errors” instead? God knows we have Jewish errors everywhere you look in most western countries, so what is it about Russia that is so dangerous? They certainly aren’t more jewish than the rest of Europe, the USA. She didn’t call for the consecration of Ottoman Syria.
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I could agree that Judaism is a major enemy of the Church, but compared to Communism, it’s merely a tributary. Just as Christianity came from the jews but was distinct from them, so did Communism come from the jews (though in part). Sure Engels was brought up Lutheran, Marx had a Lutheran-Jewish background, and of course Hess was jewish, but what the three of them helped usher in was nothing short of hell on earth. Marxism, Communism is not a mere subset of judaism. For what Soviet Communism and it’s Marxist ideology truly represent is the purest form of Satanic rebellion we’ve ever had on all levels. That kind of evil doesn’t just get snuffed out during one of the most self-destructive pontificates (or whatever you want to call it) in history.
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Wojtyla never spoke out against Communism directly, but used the “soft power” approach instead. He didn’t have to be a Communist himself to be seduced into thinking this way. It makes sense in a very practical modern sense. For all we know any number of active post-bloc prelates surrounding him could have had much more influence than we have been led to believe. When you consider VII occured right at the height of the Cold War, you couldn’t have had a greater triumph for the great Satanic Soviet.
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Besides that, I could count on one hand and no fingers how many priests, bishops, and cardinals were disciplined for colluding with the soviets. With Bergoglio in place now, even the “staunch” resistance they had to Liberation Theology has been dropped.
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Now, are you comparing an ephod on PVI to JPII actually sitting in on a Jewish synagogue, having a concert for the Holocaust… or Francis lighting a Menorah? All of those actions are much more openly jewish than anything PVI actually did or wore in my opinion, but it didn’t make them jews or cryptojews. The greater threat was and is Communism (political Satanism). The dual-covenant theology and other gestures of “oneness” with jews that we’ve seen take over the Post-VII church, falsifies both religions simultaneously. This is more in line with communist tactics in my mind.
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Please drop this fantasy of Putin or Russia being some bastion of conservative/traditional values. If the world was fooled into thinking they were a champion of the Left at the outset, why should we buy it when they appear to lurch to the Right? Don’t suppose it’s just a coincidence that Gorbachev (non-jew) is just another ex-communist chiming in for World Government either.
Trad Max,
I don’t know if you’ll read this, just like I forgot about our open conversation till now myself.
Just some quick observations and attempt at replying:
1)You shouldn’t hold prejudices towards “SVs” which is a nonsensical label anyway, since most are divided on many issues and de facto the only thing they got in common is maybe… Sedevacantism.
2)I never made Putin in a champion of tradition or whatever, I was just worried you might have been duped by media propaganda (maybe you actually are, because the MSM characterisation reinforces your preconceived views), I’m not sure at this point.
3)In my opinion Fatima isn’t as useful as many people choose to believe it is.
We don’t have the Third Secret and probably never will.
Also there’s a somewhat valid argument past Consecrations may have been valid, and the conversion and period of peace refer to fall of communism + “pax americana” thereafter.
I’m not completely convinced, but on the other hand reading it like many do, as if the USSR never fell, is equally as bizarre.
Obviously without any chronological reference and the third part, it all amounts to speculation.
4)You seem to be under the impression Jews are actual Judeans attempting to follow the Mosaic Covenant still, and not Pharisaic Rabbinic Talmudists.
Why is that?
Also seem to think Jews vs Communism are mutually exclusive, for whatever reason. Historical evidence shows us that is not the case.
5)Paul VI ephod vs open partecipation in talmudic worship is neither here or there, obviously he lived in such a time any kind of gesture on that scale would have been unthinkable and cause a huge reaction.
Also no.1 is good goy submission display, wearing the ephod would be bad bad goy, and much more suited to an actual jew or extremely high degree Mason.
Still, you betray your bias by dismissing many things nonchalantely as you do (in addition to your firm, aggressive tone, typical of someone not in search of truth, but confirmation of his views).
PS: I was hoping you would share your theories on how apparent West vs Russian antagonism fits in all of this (more hegelian dialectic or somesuch?)
Bert,
Let’s see how long this can go. This has turned out to be quite the exchange. For what it’s worth thanks for keeping it going. Now hang on, this one’s “lengthy.”
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The only thing I truly expect SV’s to hold in common is sedevacantism, so I’ll stick with it as a very suitable label. While I might identify with you and others on various subjects within the framework of the conservative traditional movement, SV is the biggest issue and one that necessarily defines and divides us. It’s not something easily glossed over, you know that, and that’s why your initial post hung it out there. There’s not a single SV blog/youtube channel that doesn’t consider SSPX and the patrons that go to their masses as false traditionalists. I have a certain amount of sympathy for all those that are really striving to be true Catholics but I have to draw the line there. It’s one thing to be told by Novus-goers that you’ve left the church, but then I get to read it on virtually every comment section out there by fiat Sede authorities.
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Again, you may not personally come to those same conclusions, but they naturally follow from the same idea. No valid Pope = no valid Bishops/Cardinals = no priests = no Mass. Even if you haven’t given into the temptation of electing a cousin as (anti)Pope, you can’t have Mass without an appointed visible structure. After 50 years of no Pope, there’d be no Mass, period, once the last validly consecrated priest dies. How many Pius XII-era priests and bishops are still alive today who say Latin Mass? You may think that sedevacantism is a reasonable opinion to have, but it ends up being as hard on the true Mass as it is on the Post-VII Popes. Every argument you may have to support TLM is invalidated as soon as SV is invoked. It’s a serious weakness and you need to be aware of it as such.
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We don’t need the third secret to understand that Russia was never properly consecrated. From all indicators outside the official release who reported have seen it in whole or in part, that secret has everything to do with the consequences of not obliging the request in a timely matter. We know the Immaculate Heart will triumph but as to our own fate concerning her direct warnings, that will entirely depend on how seriously we take her.
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I would hope that you become more than merely unconvinced about this notion of a “pax americana”. The same pax americana that only accelerated abortion, divorce, homosexuality, endless wars, oppressive usury, vice of all kinds, satanism, and overall debasement of mankind. Once you strip off all the propaganda from “conservative” Russia, you’ll find much of the same if not more. Russia is the abortion capital of the world.
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Like you, it took me a very long time to come around to the idea that Soviet Russia never really left us. KGB defectors Golitsyn and Bezmenov have written plenty to indicate where this was all heading from the Russian standpoint. From a western perspective, we have Putin becoming this strange hardline social conservative counterpoint to the (who could argue) decadent West. The USSR loved their orthodox too, because they knew they could control them. Last time I checked, the Russian Orthodox Church was not an accurate gauge of true conservative values.
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We know that many of Putin’s critics end up assassinated or jailed. Sound familiar? He marches into Crimea to “liberate” it by aquiring it (with a fake democratic ballot). The last great resistance to the crypto-soviet EU superbloc (which no one asked for) that we had in Polish President Lech Kaczynski and his entire cabinet, was conveniently destroyed in Russia (don’t listen to rumors that survivors were shot where they lay). Meanwhile, nostalgia for the good old days knows no bounds; the old soviet national anthem was reinstituted just after Putin came to power and the Russian Orthodox Church recently printed a 2015 Stalin calendar. Gorby keeps making the rounds implying World War III is immanent if Russia gets pushed too far. Yes, that famous St. Francis name-dropper who practially convinced Reagan he was a “believer”, and now here we have the greatest Francis name-dropper of all time who said just this year “communists are closeted Christians.” I know what you’re saying. “The Soviets couldn’t possibly be that Macchiavellian!” Well, have you heard of Gramsci?
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In addition to that, here’s a giant chunk of a blog that I’ve only just recently run across: http://thecontemplativeobserver.wordpress.com . I may not agree with everything he postulates, but the communism angle is dead on. There’s a metric ton of incidentals that fall together like a high stakes tetris game.
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I’d never say jews and communists are mutually exclusive because they don’t have to be. There is an overlap in the formation of Marxism. I would say they are distinct from one another. Not every jew is a communist and not every communist is a jew. The phenomenon of “atheistic jews” and jews who wished to drop all pretense of religion, combined with occult Luciferianism (my personal take on “illuminati”) and progressive “Christians”, was what laid the foundation for Marxism/Communism/Socialism. However, once established it very much became its own beast with its own agendas. Liberals around the world have become absolutely spellbound over it. Obviously, Zionism has the best correlation to jews, but if anyone wants to say “Israel”(Mandate Frankenstine) has more political or economic world power than Russia does, I’m going to ask that they show their work.
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The prevaling jewish character defect that we’ve observed throughout history is the willingness to betray anything or anyone to attain temporal power. This could easily include discarding their own Judaic heritage to get a shot at what they truly desire. They’ll be the poison tip on the end of a muslim scimitar or the communist sickle, but take away those movements and they have nothing to piggyback on. One reason is that Judaism doesn’t actively seek out converts and never will. All the Talmud really is, is a magic rubber stamp of rabbinical authority over the other jews to say everything and admit nothing. In this sense the soviets found it necessary to apply a talmudic (read modernist!) approach for Vatican II, but this is only a dissolver. The force behind it is the Satanic Marxist Soviet. That core of rebellion is unveiled once loosed from its religious trappings and placed in its (penultimate?) political form.
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Just as Christianity sprang from Judaism yet was seperate from it, neither can communism be synonymous with fallen talmudic judaism. If we do manage to defeat this enemy before the Final Judgement, it’s hard to imagine a more formidable adversary emerging from the rubble.
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Firm, aggressive, nonchalant (dismissive)? That’s called having a strong conviction! The difference is on emphasis, not bias. I didn’t say modern judaism wasn’t an issue, but they’re not the biggest issue. They’ve always been at our throats. The only difference is the identity of the dominant entity they’ll jump in bed with to keep the party rolling. All you have to do is tie up the stronger man. They’re natural change agents, usurers, self promoters, sure, but real jews who consider themselves jewish wouldn’t go through the trouble to set up a charade as a papal “anusim”. That to me is a non-starter.
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Paul VI did so much more for communism that he ever did for the jews. The only thing the jews needed was the false messiah of the Holocaust to achieve their goals. Wearing an ephod if anything, distracts from the main oppressive force of the Novus Ordo. You won’t do much to correct Russia’s errors by simply squashing jewish influence. It’s simply too far beyond that now. Of course, this will remain nonsense for those that don’t find the Fatima message very “useful”. Communists certainly don’t have time for it!