The publication of Laudato Si, the Encyclical of Pope Francis on the Environment, is less than a week away (June 18th) and both dread and speculation are reaching a near fever pitch.
As to the former, I think everyone might do well to imagine just how much worse it could be.
How so?
Think about it; we could be awaiting an encyclical on the mission of the Catholic Church, or the Person of Christ, or the nature of the priesthood, or the sacred liturgy, or Christian unity, etc.
Given that silence is clearly not an option for this pope, what would you rather have him address in the form of an encyclical; a matter directly related to some fundamental aspect of the Catholic Faith, or the pseudo-science of man made global warming?
Either way, faithful Catholics are destined to be embarrassed. That much, we know.
In the long run, however, I can’t help but think that it does less damage for Francis to ramble on matters environmental than to wax on anything theological.
Don’t get me wrong; this encyclical is cause for serious concern. It doesn’t take a visionary to predict that it’s going to do real damage; encouraging the enemies of the Church while also making it all the more difficult for those sincerely seeking the truth to discover the one true Faith.
If we’re honest about it though, we have to admit that other than garnering worldwide attention in a particular way, June 18th won’t be an awful lot unlike any other day during the current pontificate in that regard.
Of course, none of us have read Laudato Si, and so we’re largely left to speculate about its contents until next week.
On that note, it may be helpful (and perhaps even somewhat entertaining) to consider what we know, or at least what know to be highly likely about Laudato Si, versus what we suspect or that which is merely rumored.
For instance:
We know that…
Laudato Si in its contents will be earthbound; no pun intended.
I suspect that…
The so-called “Pope Emeritus,” who earned the title “the Green Pope,” will impart his blessing upon Laudato Si in a written statement given shortly after its release, and he may even make a surprise appearance at its official presentation.
We know that…
Pope Francis will dress-up his environmental treatise in Catholic language, sprinkling snippets of the true Faith here and there, like daisies in a thistle patch.
It is rumored that…
Pope Francis will cite the United Nations International Panel on Climate Change as an authority in his encyclical.
I suspect that…
Francis will come to be known as the Eco-Pope.
We know that…
Pope Francis isn’t likely to cite much, if any, of the pre-conciliar magisterium of his predecessors.
I suspect that…
Laudato Si will serve the interests of the population control lobby with an exhortation on “responsible parenthood” encouraging “prudence” in determining the number of children to welcome into the world.
We know that…
Laudato Si will be officially presented on June 18th at the New Synod Hall, and joining Pope Francis will be a schismatic cleric who rejects papal authority and a population-control advocate who rejects the Lord’s command to “be fruitful and multiply.”
It is rumored that…
Plim Plim the Argentinian cartoon environmentalist clown will also be present.
We know that…
Among the enemies of the Church who are looking forward to Laudato Si with great anticipation is Al Gore, just one of the many whacko Earth worshippers who are giddy about the “clarity of the moral force Pope Francis embodies.”
I suspect that…
A considerable portion of Laudato Si will be devoted to a broad-brush indictment of industrialism, a plea on behalf of the poor (who ironically cannot find work thanks in part to the environmentalists who prevent the expansion of industry), and will include some sort of call to treat our common concern for the environment as a point of dialogue with the false religions in service to the cause of fake “unity.”
We know that…
Renault gave Pope Benedict XVI an electric, zero-emissions Popemobile in 2012 that he used at Castel Gandolfo.
It suspect that…
Francis loves the idea of an electric, zero-emissions Popemobile as his fulltime ride, but is concerned that the Renault isn’t quite humble enough.
We know that…
If Evangelii Gaudium (which weighed it at some 53,000 words) is any indication, Laudato Si is likely to be so hefty in its own right that a plenary indulgence should be attached to its reading.
I suspect that…
Jimmy Akin has already penned at a dozen or more things to know and share about Laudato Si highlighting its continuity with tradition.
We know that…
Laudato Si is, for all intents and purposes, Pope Francis’ first and only encyclical since the majority of Lumen Fidei was written prior to the flight of Benedict XVI for fear of the wolves.
It is rumored that…
Laudato Si will make Pope Francis a shoe-in for the 2015 Nobel Peace Prize, the recipient of which will be announced on October 9th, five days into the Synod on Marriage and Family.
I suspect that…
Pope Francis will indeed be given the Nobel Peace Prize, making the second week of October 2015 an unprecedented occasion of Francismania for the secular media and various other enemies of the Holy Catholic Church, and one of the darkest moments in recent history as understood by those who love the one true Faith.
If a plenary indulgence is in order for one who reads the upcoming eco-encyclical, could I get a partial indulgence for just lifting it to shoulder level before replacing it on the bookshelf? Ban-ki Moon and Jeffrey Sachs must be licking their lips.
Circulate Michael Matt’s commentary and agonised plea to Catholics to stand up and oppose this evil collusion by the Vatican with UN on the intrinsically evil “sustainable development goals”, “climate change”, etc. that is imposing tyrannical regime of baby killing, contraception, sterilisation, etc.
I stand with Michael Matt. For the sake of our eternal souls and the Church and the world – stand up and object to this objective hatred for Christ, His Holy Commandments, His Church! Lord, save us!!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_r_AW1R0pBY
Best way to do that is to show them your heels and leave the NO mess.
Is anyone really surprised here? Ever since the blaspheming apostate Jorge Mario Bergoglio first stepped out onto the balcony of St. Peter’s Square to assume his role as the sixth director of the One World Ecumenical Church of conciliarism he has been admired and loved by the pagan world as one of its own and he has not let them down for one second. Whether it be “who am I to judge?”, lunching with perverts, “God does not exist”, “Mary doubted God”, children as “rabbits”, “Jews have kept their faith in God”, “brother bishop Palmer” and I could go on and on. The heresiarch will continue to do what he has always done since he began styling himself as “Pope Francis” and that is to commit heinous sacrileges and cause grievous offense to pious ears. I just hope people will wake up and see that Bergoglio and his demonic sect have nothing to do with the Catholic Church the perfect, spotless, immaculate Bride of Christ and that the Chair of St. Peter is still Empty. http://www.novusordowatch.org/pope-francis.htm http://www.novusordowatch.org/the_chair_is_still_empty.htm#.VXs72VL3bCQ
October 13th, the anniversary of the Miracle of the Sun at Fatima, also is in the second week of the month that Francis may get his prize, or possibly surprise.
Louie, prescient “suspicions”. However, you have overlooked the most obvious one..to wit:….the self-serving, hand-holding, circle dancing, navel watching, “we are one”, kumbaya chant to that universal god aka “pantheism”
Now wouldn’t that be “Special”. Barring a conversion or intervention, it will probably take an extraordinary event to get the attention of PF.
Hey CraigV,
Radtrad453 posted a link to an article I read some time ago, but had forgotten about, so I reread it. I think the author lays out the problems with R&R well. You might care to read it: http://www.novusordowatch.org/the_chair_is_still_empty.htm#.VXtQZfmeDGd
Pope Pius XI, Mortalium animos, (06/01/1928): “These pan-Christians who turn their minds to uniting the churches seem, indeed, to pursue the noblest of ideas in promoting charity among all Christians: nevertheless how does it happen that this charity tends to injure faith? Everyone knows that John himself, the Apostle of love, who seems to reveal in his Gospel the secrets of the Sacred Heart of Jesus, and who never ceased to impress on the memories of his followers the new commandment ‘Love one another,’ altogether forbade any intercourse with those who professed a mutilated and corrupt version of Christ’s teaching: ‘If any man come to you and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into the house nor say to him: God speed you.’[2 John 1:10] For which reason, since charity is based on a complete and sincere faith, the disciples of Christ must be united principally by the bond of one faith. Who then can conceive a Christian Federation, the members of which retain each his own opinions and private judgment, even in matters which concern the object of faith, even though they be repugnant to the opinions of the rest? And in what manner, We ask, can men who follow contrary opinions, belong to one and the same Federation of the faithful?…
“Is it permitted for Catholics to be present at, or to take part in, conventions, gatherings, meetings, or societies of non-Catholics which aim to associate together under a single agreement everyone who, in any way, lays claim to the name of Christian? In the negative!…
“So, Venerable Brethren, it is clear why this Apostolic See has never allowed its subjects to take part in the assemblies of non-Catholics: for the union of Christians can only be promoted by promoting the return to the one true Church of Christ of those who are separated from it, for in the past they have unhappily left it. To the one true Church of Christ, we say, which is visible to all, and which is to remain, according to the will of its Author, exactly the same as He instituted it…”
A few cautionary thoughts that popped into our minds whenever we’ve heard the word environment over the past 30 years– don’t seem so far fetched these days:
Among other things, this Pope is passionate about eliminating world hunger, and working together with other religions. He may just decide to bring it all together…
___
Ch13 of the Book of Revelations, tells us that some day, a false prophet will help an antiChrist to ” make all, both little and great, rich and poor, freemen and bondmen, to have a character in their right hand, or on their foreheads. [17] And that no man might buy or sell, but he that hath the character, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.”
___
We figure some hoops like these will have to be jumped through on the way from Freedom to slavery:
1. Declare that a Climate emergency has or will soon create water and crop shortages
2. A Pope announces the will of the Holy Spirit – that all religions unite for this effort to share equitably (ration) what’s left of the earth’s water and food.
3. For ease and speed of distribution, and prevention of hording, theft and black markets, it will be necessary to have secure individual ID to verify receipt.
5. Such a massive-scale project will only be managable with technological help in this martial-law condition of emergency so….
6 6 6…. [No way to be sure about what that will be, but people are already selling the implantable, under the skin, RFID microchip and others.
As Frank Swain -an chip-enthusiast on the net wrote: ” It marks the beginnings of a slow move toward a world where everything will be accessed from a single RFID microchip. If that day comes, I can’t think of a safer place to keep it than inside my own body.”
7. Scripture says anyone who takes the mark of the Beast will be condemned by God, so we’re guessing it will be commected to some repudiation of the Faith.
Those who don’t accept it, and persevere-even unto death when necessary, are to be greatly rewarded by God.
========
Lord, watch over the sheep of your pasture, strengthen us to place all our trust in You, and draw more in, we pray.
At least somebody’s speaking up:
“A group of retired NASA scientists is taking on the pope’s encyclical on alleged climate change. They are armed with expertise that has come through decades of planning U.S. space missions and dealing with the most difficult issues of climate science. Their verdict: The pope is risking his moral status and his credibility because there is no convincing evidence that the planet is in a “climate crisis” and there is a need for a “climate alarmism”. Gloria t.v news June 12, 2015
The bogus “man-made climate change” is more “government-made weather change”.
http://www.infowars.com/weaponized-weather-secrets-the-govt-doesnt-want-you-to-know/
This is insanity. Pure insanity.
We know there’s an evil elite with dreams of reducing the human population by upwards of 90%. It’s the end game of the New Word Order folks at the tip top of the “illuminati” pyramid. Google Georgia Guidestones.
Anyone not completely mind controlled also knows that the figures and pseudo-science behind global warming is junk…manufactured lies to instill fear in the masses.
That this pope is going to promote it means he’s either a blithering idiot or knowingly in on the evil agenda. I suspect the latter. And this, to me, is as bad or worse that the modernist intentions behind the synod on the family.
2017 keeps getting closer and closer.
1. It should be “Habemus Eco-Papam.”
2. “Be fruitful [increase] and multiply,” in Catholic doctrine, actually is not a command, but a blessing. As the Haydock Bible comments, also citing Bishop Challoner:
“Ver. 28. Increase and multiply. This is not a precept, as some protestant controvertists would have it, but a blessing, rendering them fruitful: for God had said the same words to the fishes and birds, (ver. 22.) who were incapable of receiving a precept. (Challoner) — Blessed them, not only with fecundity as he had done to other creatures, but also with dominion over them, and much more with innocence and abundance of both natural and supernatural gifts. — Increase. The Hebrews understand this literally as a precept binding every man at twenty years of age (Calmet); and some of the Reformers argued hence, that Priests, &c. were bound to marry: very prudently they have not determined how soon! But the Fathers in general agree that if this were a precept with respect to Adam, for the purpose of filling the earth, it is no longer so, that end being sufficiently accomplished. Does not St. Paul wish all men to be like himself, unmarried? (1 Corinthians vii. 1, 7, 8.) (Haydock)”
P.S. Somehow I don’t think the encyclical will restore the Tridentine Mass and banish the Novus Ordo to increase celibate vocations to seminaries and nunneries.
Amen
Excellent comment rich! If this doesn’t explain it all and put participation in the NO to rest, what ever will?
Dear Lynda,
We watched the video in your link, and had heard about the experiments in Nam, before, but don’t see how we can tell if any other progress was made since then. The sound weapons they have now, may be even worse.
___
There’s also the possibility that natural, cyclical Climate Change is coming, that has little or nothing to do with man’s impact on the earth, and more to do with his moral behavior–as a chastisement from God. We have the same choices to make regardless of the cause.. Whom do we serve, and who do we want to be in the positions of making life-altering decisions? We kind of feel we’re already beyond being in control of those things, due to the corruption of society, and the fact that our system is based on majority vote, and our Hierarchy has let us down for too long in impacting that the right ways.
___
We keep working for what is right and good, but we’re facing facts. We’re all in a mess from which only God can save us. Our Lady appeared in Quito, Ecuador over 400 years ago, and had prayers said for those living today–in our time. And her other genuine apparitions all called us to prayer and penance for sin. Just like the people of Ninevah. So suffering, like the kind you are living daily, is the greatest gift we have to offer our world. United with Our Lords, it becomes part of the Holy Sacrifice, which has the power to save souls. God bless you for all you contribute each day.
Interesting Headlines today:
CALIFORNIA CRACKDOWN: State orders large water cuts for farmers
(due to drought)
Cardinal Sara was just talking about the TLM and Novus Ordo:
http://www.catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=25239
Indignus Famulus, If you search for “weather modification systems”, etc., online, you can still get information on the chemicals that are being put into the condensation trails from aeroplanes. I know there have been a couple of military whistleblowers who were dismissed and under attack. As Alex Jones said, the atmosphere in Northern Hemisphere is 20pc darker than a few decades ago due to condensation trails. Weather modification weapons are very advanced.
Dear Lynda,
Thanks. We’ll check it out.
“And the floodwaters covered the earth for 150 days.”
Genesis 7:24
150 psalms…24/7…..Pray without ceasing!
I wonder about that too. Is Poor Francis stupid, or ill-informed? Can he not know the CVs of those he’s consorted with on the environment? Let’s say he believes their junk science – does this excuse his cozying up to those who want to kill even more babies to ‘fix’ that environment? Even a tiny drop of poison spoils the whole thing. Isn’t that what the Church has always taught?
I can’t help but think it’s my demand to have salad greens, tomatoes, cucumbers, and all the rest in the middle of a Canadian winter that is the problem.
–
I remember reading Julia Child say that in the forties she went to NYC for the first time and was thrilled to see “salad” on the menu. It was not usual to eat raw veggies in most households – and certainly not ones that had to be shipped across the continent. In summer people ate what grew right there. In winter they ate what could be stored from summer – and salad was not one of those things.
–
But I can’t live without salad! At least that’s what the so-called nutritionists tell me. More pure consumerism – and could be called a form of gluttony – St. Thomas teaches that only eating special foods instead of what’s around is one of the five forms of this cardinal sin. Let’s all start canning again! Give those poor Californians a break.
Here’s a recent quote from Poor Francis which is a good example of how he twists words – they sound great until you dig just a little deeper to see the flaw:
–
“We must begin with our daily lives if we want to change lifestyles, aware that our small gestures can GUARANTEE SUSTAINABILITY and the future of the human family,” said Francis, addressing delegates at a conference hosted by the U.N. Food and Agriculture Organization.” Sounds good eh? But it is all about MAN to the exclusion of The Creator.
–
I know God helps those who help themselves, and we must NOT pollute: but this blather denies God’s Divine Providence. In His hands rests our sustainability. In His hands rests the future of the human family.
–
The message must be thus: “we have been given a created world. Its use is to help us become holy. If we ruin it we sin not only because we hurt MAN but because we show a lack of gratitude to God. If we use this created world in such a way that some starve we must change our ways – first because it is sinful to be greedy, and secondly we must love our neighbour as God loves us. Our Beloved Father wants us to use His creation lightly using only what we need to become holy, then there will be plenty for all – through His generous Providence. So my beloved sheep, repent, repent, do penance for your greed of the past. Thank Our Father for his generosity and love your brothers and sisters.
–
If only Poor Francis would talk like that I’d change my mind about him.
Laudato Si Yankee No. A junk Pope weds junk science and junk religion. (Wouldn’t surprise me if is there was a footnote about the contributions and value of homosexual penguins by Kasper et al. )
The world is getting darker by the encyclical. Who would have expected the dimming to be by Papal design? With this papal rubbish, the Church is crossing a Rubicon. Live the sacramental life and pray the psalms.
As prophesied by St Francis. And as per many other prophesies, throughout the whole history of the Church.
Barbara,
Where I come from we eat chicken for salad!
S.Armaticus (over at The Deus ex Machina Blog) called this one to our attention
-Anybody know if THIS will be another Papal First?
___
(CNS reports) the Pope’s encyclical will ” be presented by rep.s from the Catholic Church, Orthodox and ATHEISTS– to show need for unity in protecting creation”
___
We anticipated the united-religions push, but an official team of united believers and atheists, slipped right past the radar. (though in retrospect it’s consistent )
___
That news came from reports from the Pope’s 2-hr. off-the-cuff session with priests as part of a Mass organized the International Catholic Charismatic Renewal Services and the Catholic Fraternity at t St. John Lateran’s on the night of June 12th, (over 1,000 present)
–Pope Francis gave a one hour talk, followed by a one-hour question-and-answer session (we have no idea how it was worked in around the Mass).
___
It’s may produce enough blog- topics to fill the time till the Synod– if the world doesn’t end first. Among other things, He told them not to consider the sinful states of the parents when Baptizing babies; and that God never cares if “too many” sins are forgiven by a priest in the confessional.
___
-Sounds to us like another burn-all-the-old -rule-books session, pounding away at the concept of mercy with no thought of justice.
Lord, have mercy on us, sinners.
https://storify.com/CatholicNewsSvc/pope-francis-speaks-to-priests
Oh, and how is this encyclical going to help the environment as it will be a bag of gas written by a gas bag!
Right on Peter! Chicken certainly isn’t ‘meat!’ With the price of beef here now I may have to resort to it though.
Our Lady Herself told us the loss of Faith would begin at the top. It’s one thing to read these words of Our Lady, and others, but it sure is frightening to live through their fruition.
Instructive link. I’m speechless…well, I’m never speechless but I am taken aback by the pure nothingness of what Poor Francis says. It took him over two hours to say nothing?
–
What does it mean to forgive too many sins? I think he means forgive sins you know darned well the person is not sorry for, or intends to commit again. If that’s the case things are worse than we thought.
–
Poor priests! If there were faithful Catholic priests in the audience this must have been a real source of penance for them. Oh, I forgot. This was a charismatic bean-fest. At least they would have understood this empty language – that is their language too.
–
You know what is a real grace? I am not forced to sit and listen to this man by being tied to a chair. Went to Rome recently and sort of skipped the papal blather on the Wednesday.
The common denominator in many of these “global emergency” scenarios is the use of scientific- sounding future predictions to control public opinion about where the money time and effort need to be spent to “prevent” nightmare scenarios. Little trips back to see how those turned out speak volumes.
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/scott-whitlock/2015/06/12/flashback-abcs-08-prediction-nyc-under-water-climate-change-june
Read it. Nothing I haven’t already. Not convincing, though I sympathize with y’all. Unfortunately, I think you guys have allowed yourselves to be scandalized into a very, very dangerous place, very possibly into leaving His Church.
The Good Lord is allowing this crisis to happen. He’s still in control. He was still in control when He allowed wicked people to apparently take control of His body during His passion. And He’s in control now when He has allowed wicked people to apparently take control of His Church. He’ll sort the wheat and weeds when He’s good and ready.
My job is to cling to the Faith, resist the errors of the day, and ride this storm out under the mantle of Our Lady.
If you’re right about it all, I’m still ok. If you’re wrong, God help ya, because that will mean you’ve abandoned Our Lord during His passion.
In either case, we’re in uncharted waters. So I sympathize with ya. I just think you’re on the wrong path.
TOO MANY SINS
He does not deal with us according to our sins,
nor repay us according to our iniquities.
For as the heavens are high above the earth,
so great is his steadfast love toward those who fear him;
as far as the east is from the west,
so far he removes our transgressions from us.
Psalms 103:10-12
Fair comment. Thank you.
http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/phoenix/2015/06/11/phoenix-priest-joseph-terra-kenneth-walker-anniversary-attack-fatal/71050238/
Speaking of forgiveness of sin…
Not really; they make the same mistakes they always have. Their theological and logical base is seriously faulty, and their root errors are the same as the neo-Catholics.
I wrote this some time ago but it still rebuts their position adequately, I think:
http://www.acatholicthinker.net/a-response-to-novus-ordo-watch/
Dear Em,
Very true of forgiven sins. But not of unforgiven. There are conditions which must be met, according to God and Church law, including sincere repentance and intention to stop committing.
In this case, the pope was not explicit enough for us to determine what he meant. But his penchant for ingnoring rules is reason enough for folks to be greatly concerned about what he wants priests to do in the confessional. Especially with the ongoing push for “welcoming” the unrepentant to receive the Eucharist.
Hey A Catholic Thinker,
I take it “they” refers to sedes. I read your article and noticed many incorrect points:
The ad hominem bit is a waste of space on both sides, but it is human nature, I suppose.
“… those who held obstinately to the sedevacantist error (that is, the position that individuals can and must decide that a validly-elected supreme pontiff has lost or never possessed his office).”
Your error is to suppose this an error. Pope Paul IV and St. Bellarmine, among others, clearly teach that a pertinaciously heretical Pope automatically loses office upon committing the sin of formal heresy. Below, you clearly deliniate the layman’s right and duty to denounce a council, or Pope, which teaches heresy – the greatest sin against the Faith. It is not the sedevacantist who decides the matter; the Church has long decided it and the sedevacantist merely obeys the Teaching of the Church in this regard. His sedevacantist Priests clung firmly to the Teaching of the Church, not error, and Abp. Lefebvre was wrong in expelling them. The SSPX is forming a cult around Abp. Lefebvre. The SSPX take his words as Gospel which they are not. Perhaps they forget that he also said that the NO church was not Catholic?
VII and the conciliar popes have taught and still do teach numerous heresies, as decried on this site almost on a daily basis. Therefore, also in terms of the opinions of Dom Paul Nau, Dr. Ludwig Ott, Sts. Thomas and Bellarmine, Suarez and St. Augustine as quoted by you, let alone Sts. Paul and John, sedevacantists can and must reject their false teachings, letting them be anathema, for they teach a doctrine different from that of the Apostles.
Sedes deny VII was a valid council because it promulgated HERESIES by authority of HERETICAL popes. The Catholic Church is indefectible. Papal Infallibility is dogma. A true Pope (Council) cannot teach error. This is our Faith and further proof of the falsity of VII and conciliar popes.
Of course individual Catholics cannot formulate doctrine but they can, and must, decide if a given statement or teaching is Catholic or not, even when that statement comes from a churchman.
—
“Could there be clearer support for the Recognize & Resist position than any one of these teachings from the theologians? It seems that any theologian of merit who spoke on the issue took the position that it is lawful to resist a pope who attempts to harm the Church – rather than the sedevacantist attitude which is essentially that individuals must declare that any pope who behaves thus simply isn’t the pope”
—
Here lies the heart and soul of your error! You stubbornly insist that a HERETICAL pope remains a valid pope, contrary to the explicit teaching of Pope Paul IV, St. Bellarmine et al. All the theologians you quote were teaching with regard to the legitimate resistance against VALID Popes who taught things harmful to the Church, or against the common good, but not of course when they taught concerning faith, or morals to the whole Church, when they could not err.
Sedevacantists do NOT believe what you allege they believe:
“… the sedevacantist attitude which is essentially that individuals must declare that ANY POPE WHO BEHAVES THUS simply isn’t the pope”
This statement of yours is false and ridiculous. Sedevacantists believe, in accordance with Catholic doctrine, that a HERETIC CANNOT BE POPE FORMALITER. They do NOT believe that any true Pope who acts against the common good isn’t Pope. That is NONSENSE!
Your whole argument relates to the Pope being a valid, true Pope and under that circumstance it is all correct, but if the Pope is invalid i.e. not a true Pope, it simply does not apply.
“But it seems to be that the root error of the neo-Catholic and the sedevacantist is virtually the same – they both believe that a [legitimate] pope cannot err. ”
How false! What nonsense! Sedes only believe the Pope cannot err when the conditions for infallibility are met and under those circumstances, the Pope is infallible. That is dogma my friend!
“Sedevacantists make such statements because they take any evidence that any churchman (or at least any pontiff) has made a materially heretical statement as evidence that he has lost his office.”
More false nonsense! A material heretic is innocent of sin. A materially heretical statement does NOT lead to loss of office. A manifest, formal, pertinacious heretic is severed from the Church and a formally pertinacious statement/teaching causes loss of office.
I could go on and on ad nauseam, as your article does, peppered with misconceptions and untruths, but to do so would be a waste of time and space. You must get a few basis facts straight before you presume to teach others. You decry others for descending to ad hominem attacks, yet you are formidable in that regard.
The Pope doesn’t see himself as the moral and spiritual leader of the Church (which he isn’t as he’s a manifest pertinacious heretic) but of the whole world, especially those outside of the a Church. Blessed Michael, the Archangel, defend us in battle . . .
http://m.asianews.it/index.php?art=34500&l=en
Yes. One world ‘religion’ with him as head (and heavy sigh, for as long as ‘God’ surprises him with more years to rule). Ted Turner, George Soros, Gorbachev, Tony Blair, the Clintons, the monsters at the UN, and many others will see to it we have a matching one world ‘government.’
–
Oh boy, I can’t wait until Tuesday…
Whosoever departs from the Church wanders from Christ.
–Leo XIII, Rerum Novarum, May 15, 1891
When the whole world is running towards a cliff, he who is running in the opposite direction appears to have lost his mind.
C. S. Lewis
I have always felt sorry for C.S. Lewis. He was a very thoughtful man, but could not embrace the Catholic Faith. His writings are really ‘neutral’ in that they lead people to ‘Christianity’ but not to Catholicism. Too bad he wasn’t batting for our Team. His talent has not been surpassed in our time.
Your job is to obey the pope always. When you dont obey the man you recognize as pope then you’re the one facing the dilemma as this flies in the face of Catholicism. Im not going to re-hash the sede argument….its been done over and over ad-nauseum. Some will see the light and others will not. For what its worth, I firmly believed the sede stance was insane barely 2 years ago. Novus Ordo Watch is a fair place to at least visit. Im a firm sede but I visit this site every day because I am sure that good men and women are here and that I can learn from them.
Peter, I really don’t agree with much of anything you’ve said. I would refer you to the superb articles by Robert Siscoe regarding the sede vacantist error, but I’m pretty confident you’ve seen and rejected those as well.
What we see again and again from dogmatic sede vacantism is emotionalism over substance. Your model – of individuals deciding that a validly, canonically elected pope is not really the pope any more – is entirely subjective at the outset and is completely unworkable. That is that.
I’ll say no more.
Is there anything the “pope” could say or do to convince you that he has left the Faith and is therefore incapable of being a pope (Im not even talking about whether or not he was validly elected)? If he said tomorrow that God does not exist would you still recognize him as your pope? Is it that you believe he could NEVER not be the pope or is it that you wait for a certain degree of heresy (as if one heresy was actualyl greater than another) before you denounced him? I do not ask in jest…I am always trying to learn and would very much appreciate your answer. Can this man possibly do anything in your eyes other than to resign, to make him “not the pope” in your estimation?
Actually, just one more quick retort: How can my article be full of ad hominem arguments, as you assert, when the author(s) of nowatch are *anonymous*? (Are you perhaps one of them? I have to wonder why it is that there is always *someone* peppering every single one of Louie’s posts with nowatch links – the same ones.)
In other words, I didn’t attack the person of any nowatch author – I didn’t attack the profession of any of the anonymous authors with the sort of silly, cynical references to Mr. Salza’s profession that peppered the article I responded to.
More pertinently, unlike this article and the entire sede mindset, any references I made to the subjective were secondary, not primary. They are ancillary to my arguments. That is factually not the case at all with dogmatic sede vacantism, which is based entirely on the subjective, presuming the individual has the power to decide guilt of formal heresy. Again, that is a plain fact: dogmatic sedes assert that every Catholic
You get the last word, as I have exhausted the time I allot for this sort of thing.
For the audience, here is one of those Siscoe pieces:
http://www.cfnews.org/page88/files/da9f34183725cf13392d5f9f9ccadf6d-334.html
Oops; I left a sentence hanging: “Dogmatic sedes”… assert that every Catholic has the ability to know with moral certainty that an individual is guilty of *formal* heresy without a judgement from the Church. This implies subjective knowledge.
Further, subjective knowledge withstanding, it is still the fact that though a formal heretic does immediately lose his office in the private domain, in the public domain a judgement from the Church is required. THAT is the real critical point, and this is something that Mr. Siscoe has demonstrated no sede vacantist evangelists are either aware of or take into account. Until he came on the scene, NONE of them breathed a word about this, ever.
It is what the theologians – Bellermine included – taught. To assert otherwise pulls us into the mad anarchy of Protestantism where every individual has the ability to depose clerics they believe are formal heretics.
It really isn’t necessary to declare that the pope isn’t the pope because he makes us mad with his heresy. What’s necessary is that we pray for his conversion and for the souls led astray by his evil. I can barely stand to look at pictures of Francis, but he’s the pope unless the cardinals depose him and that’s that.
I just need to post the link to that other Siscoe article, and then I am really done here:
http://www.remnantnewspaper.com/Archives/2013-0315-siscoe-sedevacantism.htm
NO watch addressed Siscoe. If the pope says God doesnt exist, for instance, why do I as Catholic need a formal hearing to know that he is a heretic? Why is that a “critical point”? The public hearing is a formality at that juncture for purely material concerns. Besides, our Church is “in the catacombs” right now….who among the hierarchy still has the Faith??
Catholic Thinker,
Yip, I’ve read and rejected Siscoe’s hopscotch articles, but Steven Speray does it much better than I could: https://stevensperay.files.wordpress.com/2015/04/steven-speray-responds-to-robert-siscoe-and-the-remnan1.pdf
What “dogmatic” sedevacantism is, I don’t know. What “emotionalism over substance” means I don’t know either, but it doesn’t sound very academic. There is no emotionalism in expressing Catholic doctrine.
“Your model – of individuals deciding that a validly, canonically elected pope is not really the pope any more – is entirely subjective at the outset and is completely unworkable. That is that.”
Firstly, “That is that” makes you sound a bit dogmatic – don’t you think?
Secondly, I’m finding it difficult to decide whether you are obtuse, ignorant, or just plain stupid.
a. I’ve already explained that laymen don’t decide the matter, Catholic doctrine does.
b. A formal, pertinacious heretic renounces membership of the Church by the nature of his sin against Faith and Divine law. That remains objective Catholic doctrine, whether you consider it subjective and unworkable, or not.
c. Individual sedes do not decide that a validly canonically elected Pope “is not really pope anymore.”
The authority (jurisdiction) of a Pope comes from God, not men. His authority is automatically and without further declaration forfeit when he sins against God, and defies Divine law by committing formal, pertinacious heresy, thereby severing his membership of and connection to the Mystical Body. He ceases to be Pope formaliter. His jurisdiction is withdrawn by God. Gone, finished, finito.
He is elected (designated) by men according to the stipulations of canon law and although a pertinacious heretic, legally maintains his designation as material Pope until, following trial and judgement by the proper Church authorities, he is formally declared to be deposed by them, i.e. legally stripped of his material designation by them, for purposes of good Church governance. That is what sedes believe. I hope you got it this time around.
Catholic Thinker,
I am truly flattered that you think that I might be a author of Novus Ordo Watch. Wow! That is praise indeed! No, I’m not nearly of that calibre. I’m just an ordinary Catholic layman. Your wondering is easily answered. Louie permits free discussion on his site of the abnormal situation in which the Church finds herself at this time. Sedevacantism is a perfectly reasonable and possible solution to this problem.
To say that sedevacantism is based entirely on the subjective is just more nonsense.
“… though a formal heretic does immediately lose his office in the private domain, in the public domain a judgement from the Church is required. THAT is the real critical point, and this is something that Mr. Siscoe has demonstrated no sede vacantist evangelists are either aware of or take into account.”
Crikey, you are surely one confused individual! You need to do some homework before we talk again.
The ‘damage’ is that anyone sees the aura of the Vicar of Christ in anything Bergoglio promotes.
Interesting quoting Leo XIII, since he belongs to a magisterium that is opposed to Bergoglio and his fathers in an opposing ‘faith’.
Solid Catholic arguments for why more and more Traditional Catholics are concluding that Bergoglio is “cardboard Pope – for display purposes only”:
–
http://www.fathercekada.com/2015/06/10/stuck-in-a-rut-anti-sedevacantism-in-the-age-of-bergoglio/
(A pewsitter link)
interview with Lord Christopher Monckton, Science and Public Policy Institute chief advisor, and expert for the Heartland Institute,–on a Saturday Radio show with Brietbart News:
__
“The topic of climate change is “beginning to smell like a Kipper that went behind the radiator..”
-Asked why he believes Pope Francis is getting involved in the climate change movement:
“..care of earth is part of Catholic social teachings… but Bishop Marcelo Sánchez Sorondo managed to get control of the pontifical academies of sciences and social sciences—”
..he “is an out and out marxist who decided that climate change was useful to marxism.” ..and “could care less whether climate change is true or not.
..he ignored information from the Vatican’s most influential scientists demonstrating that global warming was more theoretical than empirical. Francis, who was brought up in the Communist tradition of liberation theology in Latin America, encourages Sorondo.”
__
“Monckton further explained -Francis is influenced by extremist Professor John Schnellnhuber, (Potsdam Institute for Climate Impact Research), who said in 2009-” if we let global warming continue, 6 of 7 billion people on earth will be killed by it. “The fact that he will be there (next week) next to the pope suggests to Monckton that Francis is thanking him for having written the climate portion of the encyclical.
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/06/13/climate-expert-marxists-global-warming-extremists-control-vatican/
You will not believe this one!
http://www.creativeminorityreport.com/2015/06/what-hell-is-this-fresh-horror.html
No one is as good and kind as the Lord is; but He does not forgive one who does not repent
St. Mark the Ascetic
A great help to advancement in spiritual life is to have a friend whom you will permit to inform you of your faults.
St. Ignatius Loyola
PS. Refutes the Siscoe article and other R&R arguments.
Peter Lamb beat you to it! The case seems very convincing. I would like to see if it can be refuted, point by point, in a meticulous manner. I don’t think Robert Siscoe’s articles answer every point.
And Lord Monckton is a Catholic.
Dear Servant of Our Lady,
and who’s behind this ad campaign?…..
The youtube.com version of it, identifies it as the product of:
Canal do Observatório do Clima, rede de organizações não governamentais que atuam em mudanças climáticas no Brasil.
___
Translation :
___
Climate Observatory channel network of non-governmental organizations working on climate change in Brazil.
p.s. above translation above was per google translate.
I apologise, to Catholic Thinker and everybody else, for getting steamed up. That is not the way Our Lord would have done it. Mea culpa!
The SSPX is cracking:
http://www.traditioninaction.org/Questions/B779_Pozzo.html
Yes. Lord Monckton is a real treasure! I love him – he’s funny, knowledgable, and zealous and has a straightforward style. He will not be shouted down – keeps moving forward through his arguments. He has been pilloried in the modern media but doesn’t seem to mind. Our Lady, pray for Lord Monckton, your son and defender of Truth.
This is really horrible. But sadly to say just a little taste of what’s to come. Next ‘earth day’ when we turn ON all our lights in a quiet protest to this nonsense we fully expect siren blaring enviro-nazi cars to roar into our driveway to shut us down.
I pray that tomorrow instead of releasing his awful encyclical on ‘environment’ Poor Francis has a change of heart and alone, loudly and clearly recites the following plea:
The Raccolta (paperbacked edition) page 186, prayer #217:
Most sweet Jesus, Redeemer of the human race, look down upon us humbly prostrate in Thy Presence. We are Thine, and Thine we wish to be; but to be more surely united with Thee, behold, each one of us freely consecrates himself today to Thy Most Sacred Heart.
–
Many, indeed, have never known Thee; many, too, despising Thy precepts have rejected Thee. Have mercy on them all, most merciful Jesus, and draw them to Thy Sacred Heart.
–
Be Thou King, O Lord, not only of the faithful who have never forsaken Thee, but also of the prodigal children who have abandoned Thee; grant that they may quickly return to their Father’s house, lest they die of wretchedness and hunger.
–
Be Thou King of those who are deceived by erroneous opinions, or who discord keeps aloof, and call them back to the harbour of truth and unity of faith, so that soon there may be but one flock and one Shepherd.
–
Grant, O Lord, to Thy Church assurance of freedom and immunity from harm; give peace and order to all nations, and make the earth resound from pole to pole with one cry: Praise to the divine Heart that wrought our salt zion; to It be honour and glory for ever. Amen
Dear Barbara,
Apparently you’re counting on having non-rationed electricity next earth-day? 😉 😉
…don’t know what ‘salt zion’ means – freudian slip? Should read ‘salvation.’
Gee, that’s pretty old, stale news, Peter. What one side says about the other is not necessarily the truth. Bishop Fellay has always said if he is invited to talk he will always go. He does NOT initiate these talks. Just because Pozzo puts his own interpretation on things does not mean Bishop Fellay agrees – and the SSPX is not in the business of refuting everything everyone says!
That’s better. We were holding off on saying Amen in expectation of an anti masonic diatribe or two. 🙂 🙂
With Divinely inspired Wisdom, St. Paul wrote to the Ephesiance (ch4):
“This then I say and testify in the Lord: That henceforward you walk not as also the Gentiles walk in the vanity of their mind, [18] having their understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their hearts.”
__
How likely are we to be blessed with God’s gifts of wisdom and understanding regarding the more ellusive and intricate workings of the earth, – the subtle nuances of impact of mankind’s behavior upon God’s creation; while we insist on consulting with and publicly extolling, people He has warned us live intellectually blinded and deafened by sin?.
Thanks for bringing this forward, I had forgotten it. Someone told me a predominant fault of mine (a kind priest) and I was shocked! It still rankles! That’s a very good sign that he was right on and that there is lots of work to do before I attempt to remove any ‘moats’. We would be doing Poor Francis a good turn if we all wrote to him outlining his predominant faults…in charity.
Dear IF, we can always count on you to really get to the nub! Yes. And I refuse to do my laundry in the middle of the night to get a ‘reduced rate.’
All this could be simplified: Love God with all your heart, mind and soul, and love your neighbour as yourself.
–
Gone atheism and the new paganism. Gone bad governments. Gone pollution. Gone destitution (poverty is something else). Gone most of our judicial systems. Gone our usury-based economies. Gone sexual sins lauded as the new goods …and the list could go on through the Capital sins, sins against Holy Mother Church, Our Lady, Our Lord’s Sacred Heart, families. Think of it!
–
We will always be sinful creatures but in the world as God meant it to be for us fallen ones we could do a lot better than the sorry mess we’ve got now.
–
Don’t let anyone tell us “it’s complicated” when it’s as simple as: we don’t love God, and we don’t love our neighbour.
Most interesting article on the connection between the deluge-Sodom & Gomorrah-Fatima-Akita-and the End Days:
http://www.lepantoinstitute.org/faith-and-life/fatima-noah-and-same-sex-marriage/
Thanks to all who gave a thumbs-up on this Lord Monckton–one well-informed and entertaining gent.
–In this interview from last summer, he nicely summarized the global climate power grab -apparently going strong today..
https://youtu.be/GL-0BaGiGoY
His closing lines are good food for thought considering the encyclical due on June 18th this week:
“Gradually people will realize that this was got wrong (and if the parties of the center right are intelligent, they will remind people constantly that it was the left and the hard left, the communists and the fascists who were most vigorous in promoting this nonsense), and therefore such people should never ever be trusted on policy matters again. This could do great damagae to totalitarianism, and if it does, then great good may yet come out of the climate scam.”
Good on Peter. It is a brilliant point by point investigation on the proper Catholic response to the current situation.
In January 1953 (yes, already 10 years before they got the VII Council) Cardinal Ottaviani perfectly described this diabolic infiltration at the highest levels in the Church (when they were already horribly effective in their evil aims of destroying the Faith, and growing more and more powerful). He identifies these enemies within as in the service of the “AntiChrist”. Today, they have effectively taken over the Church, except for a tiny remnant.
http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.ie/2015/06/reflections-from-cardinal-alfredo.html?m=1
Cardinal Ottaviani’s words of 62 years ago describe the evil-doing of the current Pope in its various facets, including “aligning” the Church with the powerful longtime enemies of God, the Church and the Natural Moral Law.
I am not permitted to commend any video. Probably because I refused to click on something taking away more fundamental rights to my privacy, security in my personal communications, etc. (which they take anyway).
Some pretty sobering quotes, thanks for sharing.
–
“Unfortunately the world has become so pagan that some of its materialistic influence has infiltrated into Catholic consciences.”
–
Young traditional catholics of today are like clean fish immersed in a tank of filthy polluted water and then taken out of the tank every now and then in order to be rinsed and clean.
Perhaps it may sound like a silly analogy but there is profound truth here – barring a miracle from God it is nigh impossible to not be polluted by the corruption surrounding us, even for those holding fast to tradition.
I’m not sure who it was who said, “The world changes, and we change along with it.” – there is much truth to this.
–
“Our thoughts are veiled in sadness when we envisage the many souls poisoned or contaminated by the oozing filth of so much obscene literature; in so many the light of faith is obscured by the murky darkness of books written by atheists. In addition, there is much vacillation also in literature, even if not obscene or blasphemous, which plants doubt, uncertainty, confusion and sets minds in new ways which are not those of the Lord. ”
I remember years ago when the Harry Potter books were coming out reading how some parents of kids who went to SSPX schools were allowing their children to read this poison!!!
–
This quote by Card Ottaviani sums up all of his other ones:
“Nowadays almost everyone knows how to read but hardly anyone knows how to think.”
“… barring a miracle from God it is nigh impossible to not be polluted by the corruption surrounding us, even for those holding fast to tradition.”
I know I sound like a cracked record, but that is why one MUST get out of the NO environment.
I was not referring to the NO. I was referring to catholics who hold fast to tradition but are influenced by the “world” around them even in subconscious ways.
You are very naïve if you think that sedevacantists are immune from the corruption of the world.
–
It is all around us – unless one lives in a convent (or perhaps blind – even deaf!), absolutely and completely impossible to avoid.
Parents ought not let their children associate with people who do not fear the Lord nor adhere to God’s laws. Those who are trying to live according to the Faith ought avoid such people insofar as possible. If we had priests who were not unfaithful, opposed to the Deposit of Faith and the moral law, they would be constantly admonishing us to do so, and we would have grown up practising this safeguarding of one’s soul.
Dear Barbara,
I don’t know if you quoted the entire prayer, but if you did, did you know that two sections were eliminated from the traditional prayer to the Sacred Heart?
One made reference to the Jews and the other to the muslims. So many prayers have been ‘revised’. Tells you all you need to know about the agenda of the revolutionaries. The ‘iota’ matters.