In his homily for the Feast of Our Lady of Guadalupe, Jorge Bergoglio (stage name,”Francis”) made news by saying of the Blessed Virgin, “She never introduced herself as co-redemptrix. No. Disciple,”
He went on to provide the headline that seems to be getting the most play this morning when he labeled efforts to dogmatically define Mary as Co-Redemptrix “nonsense,” or otherwise translated from the Spanish as “foolishness.”
This from the man who treats all dogma as if it precisely that! Not that Jorge puts any stock in such things, but…
The title “Co-Redemtprix” was first employed by the Holy See in reference to Our Lady during the reign of Pope St. Pius X. She was directly invoked under this title by Pope Pius XI, first in 1933, and again in 1935. Even the Great Ecumenist, John Paul II, did so.
All of that said, what seems to have flown under the radar thus far are Francis’ comments concerning the role of women in the Church as made known in the video above. He said:
When we look for the role of women in the Church, we can look at functionality, because women have roles to fulfill in the Church, but that gets us halfway. Women in the Church go beyond, thanks to this Marian principle, which materializes the Church, and transforms her into Holy Mother Church.
Think about what you just read… Jorge is saying that women already, that is to say, they presently have roles to fulfill in the Church; e.g., they occupy positions of power in certain Vatican Congregations, in dioceses and in parishes around the world.
But that, according to Francis, isn’t nearly enough; it gets us only halfway toward the goal that he has in mind.
Does anyone care to speculate on what that role for women might entail?
If you guessed Holy Orders, you just might be on to something!
As I reported in October, Vatican News quoted Bishop Wilmar Santin, O.CARM., of Itaituba, Brazil, who confirmed that women are already in diaconate formation.
The words spoken from the lips of the Heretic-in-Chief yesterday serve as further confirmation that female ordination is indeed coming; it’s just a matter of when (provided, of course, that God does not intervene ahead of time).
There are some who claim that a “pope” approving of female ordination will be proof positive that he is an anti-pope. I highly suspect, however, that if and when the day comes that Francis does so, most of them will resort to handwringing and falling back on the tired old excuse, “We must wait for a holy pope to tell us!”
In any case, take it to the bank, folks, Reverend Deacon Ms. Lesbo will be playing at a Novus Ordo parish near you sooner rather than later.
Unfortunately seems that you are right, L. You are doing good job exposing what they try to sneak in. I see growing awareness that ‘maybe not everything is quite right” in ‘average’ church goer. Not significant though.
Re Co-Redemptrix. I believe JP2 wanted to proclaim this dogma. He inquired for final theological opinions and was stopped under pretext that his move will do damage to ‘ecumenism’. Don’t have any links at hand.
” I believe JP2 wanted to proclaim this dogma.”
Wojtyla wanted to be known as “The Marian Pope.” Check out: “Pope John Paul II’s Ordinary Magisterium on Marian Coredemption:
Consistent Teaching and More Recent Perspectives [1]
by Monsignor Arthur Burton Calkins.” (Especially B. The Marian Catechesis)
He NEVER got even close to indicating that he wanted to “proclaim this dogma.” He did, however, employ his typical obfuscatory word engineering and doublespeak when asked whether he considered Mary the co-redemptrix.
” He inquired for final theological opinions and was stopped under pretext that his move will do damage to ‘ecumenism’. Don’t have any links at hand.”
That was also typical of him: blow smoke so that things will be left hanging in the air. He was the master of misdirection and deceit.
Bergoglio is an imposter “pope” who has mastered the art of doublespeak. He fears no one. He’s the boss. He thinks he was won the right to destroy Our Lord’s Church. If he doesn’t find out how wrong he is in this life, he will find out in the next life.
What you need to do with conservatives is to tell them to put in writing what their final straw would be to declare Bergoglio an anti pope. Then when Bergoglio does it, show them and watch them back peddle and twist their way through out of their own words.
This is their church and they can do whatever the like in it. I don’t get involved when Episcopalians go off the rails either. We attend the Catholic Church, the one that gives us the Traditional Latin Mass. When Pope Tagle rescinds Summorum Pontificum, we will go SSPX or FSSP. We have nothing to do with Bergolio or any of his antics or hirelings. Trust me, life is better this way. Attend the Latin Rite and Bergolio hardly exists at all. Women, gibbons, dogs, it doesn’t matter at this point.
Attend the Latin Rite, study the true faith, pray the rosary, and so on.
Evangeline, if you attend the SSPX or the FSSP, you will be assisting at a Mass that is in union with the heresiarch Bergoglio.
Evangeline, if you assist at a “mass” by the ICK or FSSP or indult, you are assisting at a mass said by a man ordained in the new rite of the the heresiarch Montini.
Amen.
Being it is Advent, i re-read an article on the vile, false nativity scene False Francis and his masonic gang installed previously. They put a dead man as part of their perverse mockery, of our celebration of Life, our Christ’s birth. I stated to a relative, that this situation is like intruders breaking into our home, and then mocking us through our own windows.
Some nuns that F.F. persecuted, stated that although they hoped to not have to alter their way of life, (praying and helping the elderly), that since there was no way to come to terms with False Francis, they shall accept and carry the Cross that our Lord has allowed.
What a thorougly Christian reply! I have to do the same, i became bitter with this situation, also depressed. Like the nuns, i have to deny myself and willingly shoulder this Cross.
Happy Christmas!
Evangeline, what you say is correct. However, the accessibility of the Latin Rite Mass celebrated by a validly ordained priest not attached to the N.O. “church” is almost impossible for most Catholics. B16’s
so-called “liberation” of the TLM was a huge “flash in the pan”. “Study the true faith, pray the rosary and so on” is about all Faithful Catholics can do to keep the faith. Many true Catholics are waking up to this very sad fact.
True. One still has “something to do with Bergoglio (or the latest heretic-in-chief)” if one assists at a Novus Ordo sect-connected mass.
This is Vatican II on display.
This world we tred during this very brief life of ours is a testing ground and a battle zone in which each of us will either prevail against the forces of hell which seek to drag us down to an eternity of suffering, or, it must be said, we will fail in our battle mission and will be lost forever. The big lie that satan launched via “The Second Vatican Council” was, in essence, a denial of this truth. That is the root of the opposition of Catholics towards the conciliarists. We must each choose sides: we are either on the side of the pre-Vatican Church (which has been effectively consigned to the catacombs of the hearts of the faithful) or we are in the Vatican II camp. No one can choose for us.
Tom A and my2cents, you are surely both correct, but then what can one do. All we have in our area is one Latin Rite diocesan Mass, and even that bounced around for a long time and is about to be moved again.
Where is anybody going today to attend an authentically Catholic TLM?
I have a question about the ordination factor. If the standard is men ordained in the old rite, aren’t those priests all going to be elderly at this point? Wouldn’t this requirement by definition mean we are going to run out of priests simply because they will be passing on?
Where should people be going. I would love an answer to that.
Thanks all.
oops, and 2vermont.
But does this mean the Mass is no longer available to us at all?
Is that what others here are doing?
Not as far as I’m concerned. I’m still looking for one. The ones I’ve been to over the years are kind of weird, imo.
I’m going to get totally flamed for this, but I wasn’t aware that the Catholic Church taught that there was two Redeemers, and I really don’t think it is a formal teaching, because there would be a contradiction.
Pope Pius IV, Council of Trent, Sess. 25, On Invocation, Veneration and Relics of Saints, and on Sacred Images, ex cathedra:
“…the saints, who reign with Christ, offer up their prayers to God for me; and that it is good and useful to invoke them suppliantly and, in order to obtain favors from God through His Son JESUS CHRIST OUR LORD, WHO ALONE IS OUR REDEEMER and Savior… But if anyone should teach or maintain anything contrary to these decrees, let him be anathema.” (Denz. 984-987)
There is an article here on this particular subject:
https://www.mostholyfamilymonastery.com/catholicchurch/is-mary-co-redemptrix/
Is there really two Messiah’s, and two redeemers?
The SSPX have an unbroken line of Orders in the traditional Rite.
The proper Catholic response is moderation. For me, as far as I see things, that means the SSPX, in spite of everything that I have read here, there and elsewhere. If we had a ope to declare for us that there was no pope, that would clear everything up, but that’s exactly the problem. There are a few “popes” doing the rounds in comment sections on various blogs binding others to this or that proclamation.
And, on the same subject here:
https://gods-catholic-dogma.com/section_81.html
I find it quite ironic that those who claim there are no bishops or priests promote this claim as dogmatic even though they lack any authority to make any dogmatic claim.
Oh’ TPS, you are a liar,
The founder of the so called, “SSPX”, Lefebvre, assented to the false pope Roncalli, as though he was the Vicar of Christ, when Roncalli’s was the false church, as a false pope CANNOT ALSO BE the Vicar of Christ of His Catholic Church, as he is a vicar of the false church, deFide. Amen. In that very act, yet alone what followed for Lefebvre, he proved as per the infallible teaching of, “Cum Ex Apostolatus Officio”, which commands that even if a Bishop and at any time, “deviates from the Faith”–yet alone commits heresy,– that he NEVER WAS a Bishop of the Catholic Church, as he never actually received Consecration, rather he was a wolf dressed in Sheep’s clothing, as it is the Holy Ghost Who selects His Bishops, deFide, as per, “Satis Cognitum”. This a pious 12 year old in the state of grace would know and must know, as to save his soul, if the question was raised. Amen. Save your soul you, “Recognize and Resistor”, as TPS, you miscreant, non-Catholic fool, as you only, “dress”, as Catholic, much like your founder of your non-Catholic sect, Lefebvre. I pray that you find the Holy Faith before you draw your last breath.
Dear Evangeline, Tom A and 2Vermont have now been placed in the corner by you, unbeknownst to you. Notice that they have not answered your question. If they do, they will then face the true as Authentic Catholic teaching, for you to witness. Amen. Alleluia. I pray this helps you Evangeline. In caritas.
Oh and 2……..Cents,
You wrote this: “However, the accessibility of the Latin Rite Mass celebrated by a validly ordained priest not attached to the N.O. “church” is almost impossible for most Catholics. B16’s
so-called “liberation” of the TLM was a huge “flash in the pan”. You poor as miscreant non-Catholic fool. What is it that do you not understand, as that which your intellect must perfectly conform to as the, “Reality as it is”, of the divine Magisterium? You demonstrate the objective reality that you simply CANNOT hold the Catholic Faith as you muster your perfectly miserable fiat in your opinion that, “valid priests”, are now present in the world, who “celebrate the Latin Rite Mass”, you imbecilic as miscreant, non-Catholic fool. Time and again you write such non-Catholic glib nonsense, in spite of being warned of the divine Magisterial teaching you miscreant. I pray that you submit to the divine Magisterium, which is The Christ teaching and The Christ governing His Holy Catholic Church, unto the Last Day, and save your perfectly miserable soul. Amen. In caritas.
Dear IC–I love you too! May the Peace of Christ always be with you.
my2cents:
<i< the accessibility of the Latin Rite Mass celebrated by a validly ordained priest not attached to the N.O. “church” is almost impossible for most Catholics.
You are correct. You have right to attend Mass at location of your choice, if you do have such a choice. If not, you attend whatever is available. If priest is attached to NO, so be it. You can’t be judge of the priest, you can’t say “I don’t like this priest because (here is your reason)” and skip Mass. There is even a named heresy for doing this. Lack of Mass that fulfills your esthetic, or spiritual or other needs does not release you from your obligation, even if priest is hard liberal forced to do Catholic Mass. Sure you should do whatever you can to find more ‘safe’ one, but more important than your needs is to fulfill your obligation given you by the Church.
If you don’t have valid priest or Mass in nearby you are released from Mass participation, but are not released from sanctifying of Sunday in some other way.
The one and only thing that is true within M.C.’s statement above is the last paragraph (copy/paste isn’t working): “If you don’t have…”
Evangeline, please check this directory for a Latin Mass offered by a certainly valid priest near you. Like myself, it may mean getting to mass on a less frequent basis:
https://www.ecclesia.luxvera.org/Directory-USA.html#TOP
I think it would be important to learn what the term is meant when the Church uses it. What I have read, co-redemptrix does not mean equal. It involves subordination and cooperation.
Here Pope Leo XIII speaks of Mary as our Co-Redemptress when discussing the Holy Rosary:
https://www.papalencyclicals.net/leo13/l13ro5.htm
“2. The recourse we have to Mary in prayer follows upon the office she continuously fills by the side of the throne of God as Mediatrix of Divine grace; being by worthiness and by merit most acceptable to Him, and, therefore, surpassing in power all the angels and saints in Heaven. Now, this merciful office of hers, perhaps, appears in no other form of prayer so manifestly as it does in the Rosary. For in the Rosary all the part that Mary took as our co-Redemptress comes to us, as it were, set forth, and in such wise as though the facts were even then taking place; and this with much profit to our piety, whether in the contemplation of the succeeding sacred mysteries, or in the prayers which we speak and repeat with the lips.”
It sounds abusive.
Dear M.C.–Thank you for your kind response. I understand what you are saying. However, the priest associated with the N.O. church is not being judged. What is being judged is the validity of the N.O. “religion” which is, imo, contrary to the Church established by Christ. It is, for all intense and purposes, a new theology. At the Latin Mass, only the priest, whose hands have been consecrated at his ordination, can touch the Holy Eucharist. At the N.O. mass, the Eucharist is not only handled by all, but manhandled by many. The obligation to attend Mass could not possible mean participating in a “celebration” which allows this desecration. I am not a theologian and perhaps, my response to you is grossly inadequate. The Church which makes this obligation is obligated to be reverent to Our Lord in the celebration of Holy Mass by both priest and congregation. Many will disagree with me and that’s OK. Thank you again, M.C. You responded with kindness and understanding and that is appreciated.
Actually, I disagree with this “moderation” idea. It reminds me of Our Lord’s warning to the lukewarm.
my2cents,
I suspect little misunderstanding. I’m not saying one has to attend NO when Catholic Mass is unaccessible. Not at all. What I said is that you are right that this days it is hard to find a priest celebrating Mass (meaning TLM, Catholic Mass, Tridentine Mass – I’m not sure if I’m familiar with all names) who has nothing to do with NO.
You are obliged to participate in Mass (TLM) even if priest celebrates NO at other times.
I forgot about another option. If Mass of your rite is unaccesable, you can, and should (I’m not quite sure if obliged) to participate in Catholic Mass of other rite.
The Vatican II religion and the pre-Vatican II religion are blatantly at odds. Since there is a blatant contradiction between the two sides, one of them is right and true and one of them is wrong and a lie. There are a great many souls today who WANT to believe the lie, even though deep down they know that they should not. I do not believe that anyone will be able to offer an excuse for not choosing the right side when they stand in judgement before God. That is because God is constantly urging each of us to choose the right side and to therefore win the battle by making use of the tools which He has provided for us, not the least of which is the presence of souls (as are to be found in this forum) who faithfully embrace the 2000-year history of the Catholic Church and who reject anything which contradicts that teaching. There is in existence 57 years of Vatican II teaching which is freely available on the net. There is in existance 2000 years of (true) Catholic Church teaching which is freely avialable on the net. The latter is the true history of the Catholic Church.
What is interesting to me, in regards to the novus ordo mass is that some Catholics claim it is not valid. Are they stating it is not presently valid, or that the n.o. has never been valid?
Because the overwhelming number of priests leading the new mass in it’s first years, were priests who were ordained before Vatican 2. Therefore there must have been numerous priests who offered the Latin Mass for decades, yet switched to the n.o. mass in 1971 out of obedience.
Would Almighty God not bless the new mass, lead by faithful priests whom He loved?
Jesus Is Life.
You’ve got all the stuff you need right here on the Internet (and it’s free) to find the truth about the Catholic religion vs. the Vatican II religion. When are you going to get busy and find that truth?
Thank you all. I’m trying to figure out what everybody else seems to know and my learning curve needs help.
MMF: That isn’t my question. I have studied much and know that the Vatican 2 documents oppose our Lord Jesus. Nostra Aetate is absurd, the priests who wrote that are instructing us to go dumpster diving and pick out what is good with the Hindus, the Synagogue of Satan, Muhammad the murderer and his perversions… Vatican2 is a tremendous victory for satan.
My question and belief is strictly about the n.o. mass. Since many priests must have changed over to the novus ordo mass in 1971 out of obedience, this has me believe that our Lord Jesus would hear these priests prayers and bless the Mass and the participants. These priests acted from obedience, not malice.
This is just a general comment, and it’s been said many times before.
Without a true Pope, there can be no true Mass. Without a true Catholic Pope, you have no way of judging where the true Mass is, nor right; because “where Peter is, there is the Church”. Having that Mass is a great blessing indeed, but it cannot exist without a true Pope.
Since Pius VII, how can anyone ever claim to be without any doubts? Doubt, when entertained, is a faith-destroyer, and we must never give quarter to doubt. Never, or you’re toast. “They may have the buildings, but we have the faith”.
Anything else, besides following a Catholic Pope, is destined to be reduced to a matter of the creature having to use their private judgment of the probability of “sacraments”, and of endlessly choosing between so-called “priests”. Does anyone want to take that gamble, with choosing “sacraments”, and with choosing “priests”, without a true Pope externally to unite them all? I hope you won’t, for the sake of the honor of Jesus Christ. His honor will mean more, I know we will agree; than gaining the whole world.
Without that Catholic Pope, you can never know for sure, you will be lost in an endless sea of opinions, others and your own. It’s a fact. No Pope, no jurisdiction, no Mass. The Lord Himself decreed it.
Without Peter to externally guide, and “winging it” by yourself, you will end up running with really nice and cozy heretics every-time. Instead of that, stop compromising, face the hard realities, wait for the Lord patiently, and then wave bye-bye to these present day fraudulent, pope-less, anti-catholic bozos and their fake, one-world “church” and endless squabbles and sects.
Accept that persecution, that cross, and then finally, go pray in peace.
Oh’ and again my…….2……cents,
You have no idea what intellective love is, as you reject it, as you utterly affront the divine Magisterium in your glib gibberish. Amen. Intellective love is perfectly sacrificial, as The Christ commanded from His Holy Cross, “Love thy neighbor as I have loved you.” To a miscreant, non-Catholic fool as yourself, as you edify this objective reality time and time and time and again, in spite of correction and again and again, all you understand is effeminized affective love, you utterly foolish person, as that which can make you, “feel good”. Deny yourself, take up your own personal cross and follow Jesus the Christ as He commands. Amen. Alleluia. In caritas.
Amen James_o. Amen. Alleluia. A point of clarity, you meant Pope Pius XII and not, “Pius VII”, yes. In caritas.
And yet again, 2…………….cents,
You actually as literally objectively judge this other miscreant, non-Catholic fool’s advice, that advice which if you followed will send you as anyone to Hell for all eternity, and you judge this same advice as a, “kind response”. You are an imbecilic miscreant fool, perfectly deserving of those adjectives, you foolish woman. By thanking him for his, “kind response”, you also therefore assist in his eternal damnation. The Hell which awaits the likes of your kind, as you affront Almighty God in His divine Magisterium, you miscreant fool. I pray that you save your soul and glorify Almighty God in His external glory, as you do. Amen. In caritas.
Oh’, TPS, the objectively non-Catholic fool,
You demonstrate as utterly and patently that you cannot hold the Catholic Faith. There is no such beast as, “moderate response”, in the Church founded by the Son of God, you miscreant imbecile. The Christ commanded: “If any man is to come after Me, he must first DENY HIMSELF, take up his cross, and follow Me.” Where is the, “moderate response”, in that command, you miscreant fool? There is only truth found within intellective as sacrificial love, as the authentically Catholic response, you neo-pagan, simply posing as Catholic, while at once desolate of the Holy Faith, and as The Christ commanded: “You will KNOW them by their fruits.”. Save your soul, you fool, yield to the Truth, subordinate your hideous as shameful pride. I pray that you do before it is simply too late, as time is running out. In caritas.
Bad typo, yes, thanks IC.
Pius XII.
James O, without a Pope to guide us we will all fall into heresy and confusion. Sticking to tradition is the best way to stave off the corruption but in the end it is impossible to avoid. Just look at all the sede squabbles in this combox. So while I agree with you that following others and “winging it” with them will lead to heresy, following yourself and winging it yourself will attain the same result. As IC said awhile ago (one of the few things I agree with him), “Satan has set the perfect trap, there are no apparent exits.” In the end we know Satan will be defeated. But what to do in this time of Great Apostasy? I couldn’t tell you, since there is no authority to tell you otherwise other than Divine Law. That is the only sure authority remaining.
Yes, for sure, never follow yourself. We have something to follow that is much and far greater, that can never fail.
We have the teachings of all the Popes and Councils and of the past Church to rely on, yes?
Our Lord tells us to have nothing to do with heretics and to stay close to Him. That’s all I need to know.
James, the only place we can look is to pre V2 Catholic sources. But without a Pope to settle differences of opinions and interpretations, we are doomed to wander astray. And that goes for the home alone position as well as those who go to a sede chapel.
MMF: Louis Verrechio was one of those heretics. If i remember correctly he was an instructor for the heritice church, feeding Catholics the heresies!
Therefore, should we tie a heavy stone around Louis’neck and throw him into the Potomac River?
My point being, numerous of us Catholics had to go through various baffling situations to finally see the widespread apostasy, the subversive Masonic creatures, unfaithful teachings of Vatican 2… that have inflicted our great Church.
I leave flyers on car windshields at Catholic Churches, of what i have learned about False Francis, Vatican 2… Hopefully to reach some 25 or 35 year old Louie Verrechio’s who are still attending the novus ordo Mass, yet are confused, baffled about the strange behaviors and teachings.
Jesus proclaimed, Love one another as I have Loved you.
Error. James the first part of your statement is error. As many have stated during False Francis’ arrival at the Vatican, every time a pope has died over the centuries, we have been without a true human pope, and numerous valid masses were continued throughout the world. If i remember correctly, there was close to a 2 year period from the point of one pope dying to another being chosen. Masses continued on.
The second part of your statement, i am also living through right now. There is no Catholic Church that i know of in South New Jersey, Latin or N.O. that is standing for our Christ and against the blasphemies of False Francis.
I am open to starting a Catholic prayer group with only pre – Vatican 2 readings: encyclicals, D.R. Bible readings, works of the saints…
Jesus Is King of popes,
JosephaChristian: “There is no Catholic Church that i know of in South New Jersey, Latin or N.O. that is standing for our Christ and against the blasphemies of False Francis.”
You are probably looking in the wrong place, or you are not willing to travel. In order to find such a church, one might need to go less frequently due to distance (as I and many other Catholics these days do).
Check this directory out for a place closer to you. There is a chapel in Paulsboro, NJ:
https://www.ecclesia.luxvera.org/Directory-USA.html
Tom A,
Nobody is “doomed to wander astray” except all those who, like you, do their own will and decide they can ignore the Perpetual Magisterium of the Catholic Church, which still stands today, without a Pope. If what you say is true then Christ did not keep His promises, and we are indeed orphans lacking guidance and care. But it’s not because what you say is an abominable LIE fed to you by Satan who is using you like a tool right now to damn others.
Your Sacraments and those of all here are inherently doubtful. As such, receive them at your own risk. The same goes for your “position” (opinion).
VERY few are saved; strive to be one of those. Being your own boss isn’t going to save you but will damn you.
I’m just going to now sit back and watch the madness and “wonderment” around here for awhile as things deteriorate even further day-by-wretched day.
To all seeking only the Truth: PRAY and BEG for it, be prepared to do (or not do) anything to avoid Sacrilege and idolatry (of a mere piece of bread), and perhaps read through past article comment sections for clues and note the contradictions in many “opinions”. Opinions are worthless and are inherently doubtful. Look to the Church for PROOF of what someone says, if you can’t find it and they don’t have it, then reject. Follow only the Magisterium of the Church – we are NOT orphans as Tom A likes to believe. The Magisterium is the Voice of JESUS CHRIST, Head of the Church. To the end of time, PERIOD. I will lastly post some quotes in this regard, later, when I can.
Apocalypse Ch. 12
1st Epistle of John
La Salette
Prophecies of Daniel
1957 (final) interview of the real Sr. Lucia where she states the LAST remedies given to the world are the Rosary and devotion to the Immaculate Heart (wait – I thought the Sacraments are THE remedies? Connect the dots.)
Perfect Acts of Contrition
Spiritual Communions
Profession of Faith of the Council of Trent and Abjuration of Heresy
Conditional Baptism can be performed on you by anyone if instructed on the intention of the Church
Baptize your own children
Canon 2098 (or 1098) for marriage without a priest
Rosary (15-decades if possible per day)
Read the Mass on Sundays from a pre-1959 Missal (1962 Missal has the Canon of the Mass altered which is forbidden, by adding St. Joseph, amongst other issues, like BUGNINI).
Cancel your cable TV
Be single-minded – YOUR SALVATION IS ALL THAT MATTERS
Joseph,
You are in error, and you misuse “love one another” and do not comprehend what that means. Admonishing the sinner and instructing the ignorant are Acts of Charity, even if it hurts someone’s feelings. There is no greater charity than to have concern for the soul of another, and to try to steer them away from danger, Sometimes it comes off as uncharitable, but that is often due to the pride of the hearer.
Pray for Truth, Joseph, because you may find that your moniker was indeed false when you are called to judgement.
May God have mercy on you and me.
“…subordinate your hideous as shameful pride.”
Shouldn’t that be “…subordinate your hideous and shameful pride” in order to comport with correct English grammar?
ASB, and to whom do we turn to if we have a question? You? IC? You two self appointed authorities are no better than anyone else’s opinion. You two miscreant fools think you are following Magisterium but you are following your interpretation of Magisterium. You two fools said it your self. There is no Pope, only dead ones who we can read what they wrote. You are no better than sola scriptura protestant heretics. You read the Magisterium and come up with your own interpretations and opinions. This is the Great Apostasy. Follow your understanding of Divine Law. That is all that is left. A magisterium needs a magister. And you and IC are not it.
I agree with you about those who slugged along as best they could in the NO apparatus, trying to practice their Catholic faith and running into brick wall after brick wall. I don’t consider such people the problem, and I wasn’t referring to them when I stated that heretics were to be avoided. The people I WAS referring to are those who hate the pre-Vatican II Catholic religion and who see it as “bad” and the Vatican II religion as “good.” They see it a “good” because it doesn’t demand anything of them other than that they “be nice” and “have compassion” and “smile a lot.” Those people are the ones I was saying that we should avoid. Blessed Mother pray for us sinners.
“Just as it would be unjust for one man to force another to observe a law that was not approved by public authority, so too it is unjust, if a man compels another to submit to a judgment that is pronounced by other than the public authority.” (Saint Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologiæ, II-II, q. 60, a.6)
That’s why you need to back up a bit there, my good man.
Also ASB, they are not my sacraments. I have no reason to doubt the validity of certain ordinations in the SSPX and Sede lines. I have never advocated anyone going to these masses because I do not have any authority to declare them licit or illicit. Apparently you seem to think you have that ability. Face facts, you came to your own conclusion to stay home based on your own interpretation of Magisterial documents not based on any living authority commanding your assent. So just like the sede bishops and priests are doing what they think they have to do in these times, you are doing what you think you must in these times. It time you and your buddy IC the Fool admit you are simply following your conscience just like the rest of us. Because if you have found some LIVING authority to follow, please tell us who it is so we too can go to him for instruction. That would be “caritas.” But you will weasel out of this by invoking dead Papal Magisterium which always leaves us with no one to turn to in order to settle disputes.
Evangeline, don’t listen to any of us. Do your own research into the issue of validity and licitness of sacraments. Research for yourself some basic sacramental theology about matter, form, and intent. And nothing after 1958. You just cannot trust anything written after 1958. Then you will understand the differences between sede, SSPX, and FSSP/indult clergy.
Beggar: You obnoxiously regurgitated my point on love of brother.
From your arrogance, you avoid the main point and play word games. Don’t take your frustrations out on others, we are all having to contend with False Francis and his gang, improve yourself.
I offer to meet you face to face, and will help you with your obnoxious arrogance. I will freely give you an act of charity, even if it hurts.
Don’t be one of those keyboard cowards.
Be productive, add to the topic.
.
Jesus Is Truth, He Is Life.
Yea, i have concern, call it CHARITY, for our brothers who are trying to figure things out. Going through what Louie said he went through, and i also went through.
Almighty God strengthen us.
No Joseph, the first part of my statement was correct and stands. Presently, we cannot be in any type of routine interregnum, like in the past. We are in a great apostasy. If you argue that no we aren’t, well, I really can’t add anything more.
I wouldn’t think any person would even think to consider this current situation an interregnum, given the present circumstances.
To Tom A, re last two posts.
Tom, just wonder… From previous skimming through posts here on Aka, I had an impression that you are sede, just somewhat different sort. Last two posts make me wonder because your answer is more catholic than usual sede answer. Are you sedevacantist or are not (if I may ask)?
If you are catholic then please, refrain yourself from calling anybody ‘fool’, as per request of Our Lord. Also as catholic you can not recognize sede Masses as ok. Sedes are as catholic as orthodox are,. Or less. Not sure now how representative each sede, present in this combox, is for the whole sede movement but what A Simple Beggar said in post before your two posts contradicts catholic teaching in some way. Is ASB representative for sede as a whole?
Does a ‘standard’ sede doctrine exist somewhere or it, just like with protestants, each one claims ‘the truth’. How many branches of sede are out there? Does anybody can tell?
Asking out of pure curiosity.
MC, the only commonality to being a sede is that we all believe that there is no Pope. That’s it. There is nothing more to it than that. If Bergoglio is your Pope, then follow him and assent to all he teaches. That is what Catholics do. If you think Ratzinger is still Pope, then follow him.
Tom;
Please don’t consider that if we study the Church teachings from the past, that by that action alone, we are therefore “interpreting” them. The faith was put down very carefully with well chosen words following the Lord’s decree to be understood by all. Yes is yes, no is no. Words have definite meaning.
The Popes and the Councils are supposed to be interpretations of Divine teaching for us to KNOW. That’s why they exit in the first place. Good teachers do that unambiguously.
I hope your not thinking we need an interpretation, of an interpretation of even that interpretation… that would be a descent into madness, and deny we are even capable as creatures of knowing truth, and therefore incapable of having any faith at all! That’s just a recipe for faithlessness. M-o-d-e-r-n-i-s-m.
No, you can’t be saying that. So what do you mean by saying IC or ASB are somehow making themselves “popes”, and elevating themselves above all, by studying and sharing the quotes of the Popes, Councils and Church teachings?! Especially when the Lord commanded us to “seek”.
And by the way, all past true Popes are not “dead” popes, they live now and forever. Bergoglio, Ratzinger, JP II, etc., are examples of “dead popes”. Do we follow the dead or the living?
The Lord God of heaven and earth is the God of the living, not the dead.
Tom A: MC, the only commonality to being a sede is that we all believe that there is no Pope.
Thanks Tom, I thought sede is more organized ‘religion’. I was wrong.
Tom A,
As usual, all you do is ramble on with your opinion while offering no proof whatsoever that your position is acceptable in any way, shape, or form to Almighty God, because you can’t – you have no proof.
Not only that, you have the audacity to say that Jesus Christ, the Supreme Head of HIS Church, left us “doomed to wander astray” while there is no Pope. Is this not blasphemy???
Then you have the nerve to RASH JUDGE ME in saying that I make myself my own Pope. No, Tom, I CAN READ. The MAGISTERIUM is CRYSTAL CLEAR on the CRITICAL matters that have been discussed over and over here and PROVEN to those who actually WANT the TRUTH.
BEFORE I was my own Pope, yes, just LIKE YOU. Now I let the Popes and the Magisterium, i.e. CHRIST, LEAD ME, and in case you forgot, CHRIST IS NOT DEAD, and he is the GOD OF THE LIVING.
Furthermore, I’m beginning to think that not only are you a miscreant fool, but illiterate as well, or at the very least you have extremely poor reading comprehension abilities. Not only due to the above, but BECAUSE I HAVE REPEATEDLY TOLD YOU THAT I CAME TO MY POSITION PRIOR TO AND COMPLETELY INDEPENDENT OF In caritas and/or AKA CATHOLIC. How did we reach the same conclusion with MORAL CERTITUDE independent of each other? Why, just maybe, Tom – BECAUSE IT’S THE TRUTH. WE DON’T HAVE A MONOPOLY ON THIS TRUTH – WE ARE NOT ALONE. I prayed intensely for this TRUTH – HOW DARE YOU IMPLY THAT GOD ANSWERED ME WITH A LIE, simply because YOU DON’T AGREE. I have moral certitude, whereas you do not and that is exemplified over and over in your contradictory statements and the many in which you verbalize your own doubts.
Another thing is that as I believe M.C. said, you don’t even come right out and state where exactly you stand or even attend “Mass”. You’re very secretive – why? I believe you once said you serve at “Mass”. You seem to be the only one who is so secretive. Who are you then, really?
There are attachments you have which are far more important to you than Jesus Christ and the Truth. Guaranteed. Friends, family, pride, reputation, financial, human respect, a “church” and community, a “priest”, sin, whatever it might be. Or perhaps you’re just one of those men (I’ve seen in with my own eyes) who literally shudder at the mere thought that they wouldn’t be able to run to “Confession” due to their habitual mortal sins. Why do I say this? Because any ONE of these WILL CAUSE GOD TO LEAVE YOU BLIND.
You’re the one left doomed to wander astray. Truer words have never been spoken by the evil spirits whispering in your ears. God HAS abandoned you in your obstinacy, Tom; He has left you, indeed, to your own devices.
May God have MERCY ON YOU, and on me.
Joseph,
You are the arrogant one, not me. I regurgitated nothing. You here show your TRUE colors, i.e. total lack of humility as there was nothing I said that should generate such an angry response. As a Catholic (Christian) I have the right to call out your error and to warn others.
Not only that but you rash judge, because I am hardly taking out “frustrations” on anyone. I’m defending TRUTH and His name is JESUS CHRIST. I have peace. I don’t have a Pope Francis and don’t belong to the false church of the Antichrist and therefore I don’t have such disturbances of spirit.
How easy it is for you to sit behind a keyboard and offer to meet “face-to-face”, YOU keyboard coward. “Be productive…add to the topic”? <You're new here aren't you? And you accuse me of arrogance? I am a female, by the way, and I'd be absolutely HONORED to punch out an HERETIC for Christ and the Holy Virgin.
James, I agree, i also believe we are in the great apostasy. The signs are numerous. I simply disagreed with your blanket statement, “Without a true Pope, there can be no true Mass.“ I just used the death of the popes as an example.
Peace to you.
I simply disagreed with your blanket statement, “Without a true Pope, there can be no true Mass.“
PROVE THAT STATEMENT TO BE INCORRECT, Joseph, with the Magisterium of HOLY Mother CHURCH. The floor is yours.
If he offers more OPINION, you readers seeking Truth, then IGNORE.
Catholics are bound under pain of mortal sin to assent to everything a Pope teaches in his Magisterium.
Pope Leo XIII, 1885, Immortali Dei
41. Whatever the Roman Pontiffs have hitherto taught or shall hereafter teach must be held with a firm grasp of mind and so often as occasion requires must be openly professed.
Pope Leo XIII, 1896, Satis Cognitum
“9. Wherefore as appears from what has been said, Christ instituted in the Church a
*LIVING*,
**AUTHORITATIVE**, and
**********PERMANENT**********
>>>MAGISTERIUM<<<,
which by his own power HE STRENGTHENED,
by the SPIRIT of TRUTH HE TAUGHT,
and by miracles CONFIRMED.
He WILLED and ORDERED
under the GRAVEST PENALTIES
that ITS teachings SHOULD BE RECEIVED
AS IF THEY WERE HIS OWN."
Now, WHAT pray tell have YOU been saying, Tom A, et. al. (all of those who are OBSTINATE in the face of TRUTH: AKA MISCREANT FOOLS)? I dare you to dig your very own hole deeper: try to explain away the above BECAUSE THERE IS NO POPE.
NO – Catholics ARE NEVER left "doomed to wander astray", Tom A. You have the proof and you are free to accept it or to reject it. Those who love NOT the Truth are left doomed to wander astray. 2 Thess Ch. 2.
A.S.B: Sure. Every time a pope has died over the centuries, Mass has not come to a halt. If there is a Church Law that proclaims that Mass must cease when a pope dies, print it.
Also, to call a Christian man a heretic, with no evidence, this is the sin of slander.
And to state that a Christian man, who you do not know, does not comprehend charity, this is arrogance.
And you are also wrong about me being new to this website, i have not commented often.
JESUS IS FREEDOM
Oh’ TPS, as you continue to demonstrate that you simply cannot hold the Catholic Faith,
TPS wrote this, as he claims it to be quoted from the Angelic Doctor:
““Just as it would be unjust for one man to force another to observe a law that was not approved by public authority, so too it is unjust, if a man compels another to submit to a judgment that is pronounced by other than the public authority.” (Saint Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologiæ, II-II, q. 60, a.6)”
You simply have no foundational understanding of what you write. The divine Magisterium is the Teacher, is the Law, and is the Judge, you miscreant fool and yet again. “Cum Ex….”, for instance, gives the truly Catholic layman the divine Authority from Pope Paul IV, to withdraw from submission to any man who posed as Bishop, when in the judgment of that same layman, that same would be Bishop, deviates from the Holy Faith or commits heresy, all within the purview of the judgment of the layman, as the Church has already judged thus, and the layman is commanded to know the Faith such that he knows the deviation or heresy affronting it. The holy as divine Magisterium proclaims the Judgment of the act of the miserable creature, whomever that may be, as he affronts the divine Teaching and Authority. The Ordinary and Universal Magisterium is the Final Judgment you fool. The Magisterium is perpetual. What do you not understand about the meaning of the word, “perpetual”, as UNENDING AND UNCHANGING. What does not end continues on, as that which does not change cannot be restated, you miscreant fool. The divine Magisterium is perfect in the, “Reality as it is”, Truth thus, as the Angelic Doctor taught. You use his teaching and misapply it, as can only be expected from one who only poses as Catholic. You do not understand what you write. What I write is the teaching and governing Authority of the Magisterium TPS, not my miserable judgment nor my opinion, you imbecile. Time and time and time and yet again you bumble and babble and misrepresent as you distort and pervert the Holy Catholic Faith and Her Church teaching and governing Authority. You do this at the pain of your own personal eternity in Hell, you miscreant fool. Once the Vicar of Christ has spoken in the divine Magisterium, he has spoken. That simply CANNOT EVER BE CHANGED NOR FURTHER PERFECTED IN ANY WAY, as Truth is Truth, and is perpetual. Amen. Alleluia. The Vicar of Christ, if he were present today, could not better clarify that teaching and governing which already exists, as it is, in the Magisterium. To suggest otherwise is utter heresy, as it suggests tacitly then, that TRUTH can somehow be perfected. That is an absurdity which rocks the cosmos in its inane conjecture. Amen. I pray you are helped by the reception of God’s grace. Amen. In caritas.
Joseph,
That’s called an Interregnum. THIS is not an Interregnum, for starters.
We are commanded to know who is with us and who is against us. St. Paul instructs us to avoid heretics. We aren’t even to say “Godspeed you” or allow one into our home. How’s that for “uncharitable”?
“…for men are not bound, or able, to read hearts; but when they see that someone is a heretic by his external works, they judge him to be a heretic pure and simple, and condemn him as a heretic.” [St. Robert Bellarmine, De Romano Pontifice, II, 30.]
Correction: JESUS IS FREEDOM, NOT LICENSE
And yet again Tom A, you distort and pervert the Holy Catholic Faith,
You offered this inane as utterly non-Catholic fiat of yours’ and again, as your merely hideous opinion, once and again and again and yet again, as you wrote this:
“Do your own research into the issue of validity and licitness of sacraments.” This, “research”, of yours Tom A, is objectively taking your soul to Hell and now you invoke this sentence on the other, as Evangeline, in your midst. Amen. The only, “differences between sede, SSPX, and FSSP/indult clergy”, is their utterly hideous as vile and personal fiat as opinion, just as yours’, you miscreant as imbecilic fool Tom A. They are all, as they can only be, vile and hideous non-Catholic sects, as there is no Vicar of Christ, as the exemplar, the pinnacle of recognition, of the public, “Unity of Communion”, as infallibly taught in, “Satis Cognitum”, you non-Catholic who, as all but all of the rest who breathe today, only pose as Catholic, “wearing” the metaphysical accidental forms of Holy Church, while utterly desolate of Her substantial form, you fool. You invoke smoke and mirrors Tom A, distraction and diversion, while Truth is in your midst, you imbecilic fool. You tacitly suggest then that your intellect will get you to Heaven, you non-Catholic imbecile, while it is objectively known as witnessed of you, and with apodictic certitude, as taught only by the Holy as divine Magisterium, that your intellect is taking you straight to Hell.
Dear Evangeline, I implore you to submit to the teaching Authority of the divine Ordinary and Universal Magisterium, to get you to Heaven. Do not listen to mere hideous human opinion. Know, “Cum Ex Apostolatus Officio”, “Satis Cognitum”, “Vacantis Apostolicae Sedis”, and “Ad Apostolorum Principis”. Know the infallible teaching of the ONLY as SINGULAR Vatican Council of 1869-70. Save your most precious soul Evangeline. Submit to the Holy Faith and the Blessed Virgin will guide you into her Truth, her Beloved Son, as The Christ commanded: “Seek the Truth and ye shall find it.”. Amen. Alleluia. In caritas.
And then there’s the hideous affront to the Holy as divine Ordinary and Universal Magisterium, offered once and again by the hideous mmf,
Who do you really think that you are, other than a fiendish wretch, so called, “mothermostforgiving”? “Not as far as I’m concerned”, opines in fiat, the hideous wretch as mmf. So mmf in her fiat, “…as far as I’m concerned.”, utterly as patently denies the divine Authority of the Magisterium, as it has Judged the loss of Apostolic Succession, as per, “Vacantis Apostolicae Sedis”, as witnessed here time and time and now again, as mmf declares that somewhere in this world, without the Vicar of Christ present now for 61 years and counting unto the Last Day, that mmf can find her little mass yet somewhere hidden in this hideous world that mmf is a slave of. You are an hideous as miscreant fool, you imbecile. No Pope, No Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, you non-Catholic fool, as you affront the Holy Faith, time and time and yet again.
You then have the unmitigated, heretical gall to write this hideous gibberish:
“The ones I’ve been to over the years are kind of weird, imo.”
What does that platitude even mean, you foolish idiot? Are you suggesting that the Holy Mass is, “kind of weird imo”? Or are you suggesting that these creature beast things from Hell that you have assented to as the, “Mass”, couldn’t possibly be after all, you hideous wretch? Either way, you objectively demonstrate the utter impossibility that you hold the Divine and Catholic Faith, you miscreant, neo-pagan, heretic. Rather you assent to the hideous, “religion of man”, all dressed up Catholic, while desolate of all things Christ Jesus, as the very church of Antichrist. God save your wretched soul, mmf. In caritas.
Oh’ and the one who calls himself, “Christian”,
You are simply another who dresses in the metaphysical accidentals of the Church, while you are indeed as objectively understood to be, desolate of The Christ, so called, “Joseph a Christian”, you miscreant fool. You affront the Authoritative teaching in, “Vacantis Apostolicae Sedis” (VAS), and in your utter heresy then, you are perfectly blind, you imbecile, not even knowing that you do, while you are fully culpable, as the Apostle, Saint Paul commanded. As james__o pointed out to you, you non-Catholic, neo-pagan wretch, this IS NOT AN INTERREGNUM, as Authoritatively and infallibly declared in VAS. Amen. Alleluia. This is the Catholic Faith you fool, as you demonstrate with apodictic certitude that you cannot hold, as you are in the company of all but all who breathe today, choosing the broad road to Hell. I pray that you, DENY YOURSELF, take up your cross, and follow The Christ. Amen. In caritas.
Beggar, Interregnum is an example, i was asked to give an example. Your pride does not allow you to be truthful.
You are a deceiver.
Be gone satan.
You’re the liar because I did not ask for an example, I asked you to PROVE your statement and you did not because you cannot.
You show your true colors as you must because you reek of pride and arrogance. You who dares to defend the abominable Bugnini “Mass”. Be gone, Satan is right.
IC You deceiving windbag, i never stated we are in an interregnum. You are a slanderer.
Jesus Is Truth.
Dearest ASB,
And again you evidence the True, the Beautiful, and the Good, as the divine teaching of the Son of God made true Man, from His divine and Holy Ordinary and Universal Magisterium. That which is perpetual as UNENDING AND UNCHANGING. Amen. Alleluia. Tom A is an obstinate as heretical fool, a miscreant from his very deepest interiority, as from the very operation of his will in his higher soul, while he bears witness to this truth, time and time and time and yet again. His vitriolic malignity cannot help but to surface, as it now just has again. It is his pride which is damning him. He witnesses an hubris the likes of which would make Lucifer smile, if such an act could be possible. Tom A’s singular interest is in his sycophantic followers, as he objectively demonstrates a malignant love of himself, and his other interest, which finds its wellspring in the first, is simply to win a foolish argument, which he cannot, as he does not hold the Truth. Amen. This is only a game to him, as he yearns for his own personal eternity in Hell, once again continually as repeatedly evidenced by his fruits, as The Christ commanded that we MUST KNOW the other by, to save our own soul and then to assist in that of the other in our midst. Amen. Alleluia.
There is simply nothing that Tom A can write that alters his own personal path to Hell, as he hates Jesus the Christ. Tom A objectively evidences his hatred for The Christ, Who teaches and governs His true flock in and from His divine Ordinary and Universal Magisterium, treating it as though it is a “DEAD LETTER”. Amen. The Hell that awaits Tom A is beyond the human capacity to glimpse, in the imaginative power. Amen. As Pope Leo XIII also infallibly taught in, “Satis Cognitum”, the Magisterium would be heard simply as NOISE, by the heretic, as they would not understand its teaching and governing Authority. Tom A is that heretic, about whom Pope Leo XIII warns us, as Tom A believes that which the true Catholic writes, as from the Holy and divine Magisterium, is simply his miserable, personal opinion, as though it is his personal interpretation of the Magisterium. What Tom A remains ever blinded to, is that the one who actually holds the Catholic Faith, is given in that grace of the Faith, the ability to read and understand the simple as pristinely clear Authoritative teaching of the Supreme Pastor, as the Vicar of Christ in this world. This in the understanding of Jesus the Christ’s command that: My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. Amen. Alleluia. I pray Tom A and all but all who breathe today, first deny themselves, take up their crosses, and then and ONLY THEN, can they follow The Christ as from His divine Magisterium and then into the Beatific Vision. Amen. Alleluia. In caritas.
False obedience. They apostatized plain and simple. They loved their own comfort, convenience, position, lives, sins more than the Truth, and hence at best they were blinded. Malice must be presumed. A small number, however, fled and did not apostatize.
The miscreant fool as, “Joseph a Christian”, writes error again, as he doesn’t even know what he writes,
You wrote this to ASB just above, you non-Christian, miscreant fool:
“A.S.B: Sure. Every time a pope has died over the centuries, Mass has not come to a halt. If there is a Church Law that proclaims that Mass must cease when a pope dies, print it.”
And you now claim that you have not said that we are in an interregnum. You are either a liar or you simply have no concept at all of what you write. You tacitly claim in that statement that we are in interregnum, as you claim that the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass has historically occurred after the death of a Pope and before the election of the next, which is true. That, by its very definition, is the period of, “interregnum”, you non-Catholic, heretical, miscreant, imbecile. You remain so ignorant of Truth, that you cannot possibly know just how ignorant you are, as you objectively evidence this ignorance but with a jingoistic hubris, that will damn you to Hell, you heretic, as simply another imposter, posing so hideously though, as Catholic. I pray that you receive God’s grace to save your hideous, miscreant soul. You will have to first deny your wretched self. Amen. In caritas.
Just reading these comments proves my point. There is no authority and we all are simply reading the traditional magisterium and following our own reasoning as to what to do now. In reality, we have no choice because we cannot follow the V2 false church. We are all forced to come to our own conclusion since there is no authority to command what is the correct course of action. Some fools here believe they have found the only option. Who knows, maybe they have. But they lack any authority to claim it as the only Catholic option. They use their own private interpretation of select magisterial documents and conclude we are all bound to their understanding.
Satan.
To the one who calls her/his self—“mothermostforgiving”,
And you remain perfectly blind and deaf to Truth, on your sure as certain personal path to an eternity with the one whose name you invoke, as toward the other in your midst, who is simply demonstrating as bearing witness to the Holy as Divine Magisterium, which condemns you to Hell in your present as objective state of, “reality as it is”, truth thus, so called, “mothermostforgiving”. Amen. “You will KNOW them by their fruits”, as commanded by the God-Man, as only He can save your wretched as hideous soul. In caritas.
And the utterly childish as infantile Tom A, a miserable wretch for all eyes to bear witness, outside the Church, where no salvation is to be found, deFide.
Know the vile twist on Truth that this hideous slave of Lucifer continues to proffer in his words, that is, anyone interested in saving his eternal soul. Any sycophant of Tom A and his side-kick, mothermostforgiving, is on their sure and certain path to their own personal eternity in Hell, where each will screech cacophony in blasphemy of God, His Angels, and His Saints, with the most Holy as Virgin Mother of God, as the Queen of the Church Triumphant then. Amen. Alleluia. The errors of these miscreant, imbecilic, pseudo-intellectual fools, cry out to Heaven for Justice, as their crimes have been Judged by the Holy Church, as worse than murder of the flesh, as they attempt to murder the soul, in their deceptive as profound error. Amen. Follow their fiat and you will join them in eternal suffering and cacophony, should you die in that state without having been blessed with, “perfect contrition”, Amen. Now find the following as quoted from the divine Magisterium in, “Satis Cognitum”, to save your souls and afford you protection from these 2 vile, miscreant creatures. Their evil knows no bounds, it does not rest, it will not abate, as they have an insatiable hunger for you to join them, on their sure and certain path, deFide, to a personal eternity in Hell, joining their Prince. Amen. The Truth is hard as He is a divine Person, Jesus the Christ, and He commanded that He did not come to bring peace but the sword, as it is in division where the truth springs forth and is plainly seen. The paltry amount of wheat left in this hideous world is now being separated from the chaff on the thrashing floor. Amen. Alleluia. We are all left to choose, as The Christ commanded: “You are either with Me or you are against Me”. He also commanded: Let your yea be yea and your no be know, anything else is from the evil. Amen. As in, “Satis Cognitum”, which will be posted here and clarified as needed later, the Magisterium is perpetual as it is LIVING, as it is The Christ with us unto the, “Last Day”, as the Consummation of the world. Amen. Alleluia. These two miscreant fools, whose minds are diabolically deranged as is objectively evidenced time and again, want you to actually believe that Christ Jesus our Lord and our King has literally as actually abandoned His flock, precisely when we need Him most, in this the time of the very desolation after the reign of Antichrist, where the Vicar of Christ is gone from this world, deFide, as warned by the prophet Daniel and the Apostle Paul, deFide. Amen. Alleluia. They warned that the Holy Sacrifice would be gone, as the Vicar of Christ was gone. Right reasoning, as in accordance with the Faith, perfectly clarifies this understanding of our time and The Christ commands that we assent to this belief thus as He commanded of His disciples, those who truly hold the Catholic Faith unto the Last Day: You know the signs of the weather but you do not know the signs of the times. Anyone is an utterly miscreant fool who would follow the false prophets of this time, as Tom A and mothermostforgiving. Amen. Now for, “Satis Cognitum”, which warns us of the likes of these two heretics, Amen:
” But he who dissents even in one point from divinely revealed truth absolutely rejects all faith, since he thereby refuses to honour God as the supreme truth and the formal motive of faith. “In many things they are with me, in a few things not with me; but in those few things in which they are not with me the many things in which they are will not profit them” (S. Augustinus in Psal. liv., n. 19). And this indeed most deservedly; for they, who take from Christian doctrine what they please, lean on their own judgments, not on faith; and not “bringing into captivity every understanding unto the obedience of Christ” (2 Cor. x., 5), they more truly obey themselves than God. “You, who believe what you like, believe yourselves rather than the gospel” (S. Augustinus, lib. xvii., Contra Faustum Manichaeum, cap. 3).
Let all be warned as this is The Christ teaching and governing His Church PERPETUALLY unto the Last Day, as infallibly taught in, “Satis Cognitum”. Amen. May God save our wretched souls. In caritas.
^^^Tom A has the audacity to take on JESUS CHRIST:
Pope Leo XIII, 1896, Satis Cognitum
“9. Wherefore as appears from what has been said, Christ instituted in the Church a
*LIVING*,
**AUTHORITATIVE**, and
**********PERMANENT**********
>>>MAGISTERIUM<<<,
which by his own power HE STRENGTHENED,
by the SPIRIT of TRUTH HE TAUGHT,
and by miracles CONFIRMED.
He WILLED and ORDERED
under the GRAVEST PENALTIES
that ITS teachings SHOULD BE RECEIVED
AS IF THEY WERE HIS OWN."
PROVE now for all to see, Tom, how this doesn't apply TODAY, and until the END OF TIME.
ASB,
Those words are as clear as any may want to read or hear. And a hearty amen! to that.
We all share intellects that were given to us by the Lord Himself. 8)
ASB, thank you for continuing to prove my point. You quote an authentic piece of magisterial teaching and then pretend to be the arbiter of its interpretation. Even when your interpretation is reasonable, you lack any authority to bind or loose. But you two (and now jimmie o) are so confident that you have solved the riddle of the ages and alone posses the keys to salvation. You have self ordained yourselves as the anointed ones and gatekeepers of orthodoxy. Again, since there is no authority to settle any differences, you read the documents and hold to your personal interpretation of them. You are no more capable of allowing the Church to teach and govern you as I am. You are simply “winging it” and coming up with your own conclusions, opinions, and practical solutions and self declaring them authentic magisterium. You accuse all others who do this as heretics because they do not agree with your conclusions, opinions, and practical solutions. You are so predictable that the two of you “miscreant fools” will simply reply with more personal admonitions, quote additional documents, and issue further declarations against me. And herein lies why so many avoid sedevacantism like the plague. Because it necessarily leads to a vacuum of authority.
ASB,
Abusive in that Thou must attend mass, any kind of mass, no matter what, even when you know it is wrong because (false) obedience above all else.
Tom,
If that’s the case, then please, tell us where, here and now, all the true authority lies, so that we may submit to save our souls.
I don’t know, do you? I can only tell you and anyone else that cares what I think I have to do to save my soul based on what the Church taught before 1958.
Here is an interesting post by someone who looks as though he has given a lot of thought and study to the question of jurisdiction in an extended vacancy, over at the Suscipe Domine forum:
http://www.suscipedomine.com/forum/index.php?topic=22836.msg484459#msg484459
Yes I do know, “…Christ instituted in the Church a living, authoritative and permanent Magisterium…”
It interprets Scripture and teaches us everything we need to know. We may be left without the externals in persecution, but never without the truth and faith.
We can all know the one true faith from one source. No extra “interpretation” necessary. Whether there is a Pope currently reigning or not, we would still have make the effort to study our faith.
Follow the true Magisterium of the Catholic Church.
Tom A,
I do NOT need to rely on myself to interpret or define “Living”, “Authoritative”, “PERMANENT”, “Magisterium”, much less “HIS OWN”. Merriam Websters is our friend.
As the document itself attests, THE ABOVE IS *CHRIST’S* VERY CLEAR and UNAMBIGUOUS teaching.
Whatever YOU THINK about it couldn’t possibly be more irrelevant, not to mention deadly. You sound silly, blind, obstinate, and above all, foolish. You refuse to submit to a very clear instruction that I would have understood at 8 years of age.
YOU THINK the ENTIRE 2000+ year Magisterium died along with Pope Pius XII, amd that we have NO AUTHORITY now guiding us whatsoever, and are “left doomed to wander”, just like the wandering and doomed stars that kept not their God-given station, and you accuses US of making things up along the way? Of “misinterpreting”? You are diabolically insane.
Sorrowful and Immaculate Heart of Mary, please, PLEASE defend poor, obstinate Tom A and straighten his mind.
You don’t know, Tom? But you “think”? You “think” we are wrong to follow the LIVING, PERMANENT, AUTHORITATIVE Voice of CHRIST in His HOLY MAGISTERIUM, while on the other hand, you say that maybe we are right?
Doubt and disorientation are your blind guides. My Guide is Jesus Christ.
Don’t need to know what he or anyone “thinks”; the answers are right in front of us in the Living, Permanent, and Authoritative Magisterium as taught and commanded by JESUS CHRIST through His True Vicars.
James O, if you have an authority to follow, then follow it. Just tell me to whom in authority will you take your questions to.
Then don’t read it. You just told me what you “think”, though I didn’t ask you to.
I no longer think my own thoughts I think with and look to the true Church in Her Permanent Magisterium for the answers. Do you think it to be just a stupendous coincidence that we are left without a Pope during a time when information is at our very fingertips? There IS an Authority, we were NOT left abandoned to our own wretched thought and opinions – JUST AS CHRIST PROMISED.
Tom A, et al, stop blaspheming and calling Jesus Christ A LIAR.
You never read what I write. I always say the only authority left is the Divine Law. We read in scripture about the elect being deceived and the operation of error. What amazes me is how many people think they are the ones that have somehow figured out how not to be deceived nor susceptible to error. You think everyone else is deceived but yourself. You think everyone else believes a lie but yourselves.
“James O, if you have an authority to follow, then follow it. Just tell me to whom in authority will you take your questions to.” -Tom A
It’s called prayer, Tom A. “Ask and you SHALL receive, seek and you SHALL find.” I suppose for you that might amount to asking for a new car, or a raise, or a fancy vacation. Do you dare to imply that someone asking for the Truth who is ready to accept it AT ANY COST would receive a LIE? Yes, unfortunately for you, you do. The “rich” (full of self) He has sent away empty; abandoned and “doomed to wander” and WONDER, full of doubts and uncertainties (“Maybe you’re right.”). It’s also called The Holy Ghost, granting us Wisdom, Understanding and Counsel, opening our eyes through Grace, if only we are properly DISPOSED (humble and contrite, in awareness of our utter NOTHINGNESS and IGNORANCE).
It’s because you lack FAITH, Tom, that you don’t TRUST and you don’t BELIEVE… in anything but what YOU THINK as in what’s convenient and comfortable. There are things holding you back, Tom. Let them go before God gives up on you and decides your time is up.
ASB, if all it takes is sincere prayer, then why did we ever need a Pope?
Unless you are a member of SD, one can not view this thread/post that you linked here. I suspect it is in the Sedevacantism sub-forum which guests used to be able to access until the owner decided to relegate it to the basement.
What you say and what Jesus Christ teaches through His PERMANENT Magisterium are at complete odds with one another, and if you think you can separate all of this from Divine Law then you are deceived as well. It’s only YOUR faulty INTERPRETATION of Divine Law anyway.
The Truth lies somewhere, Tom, and it can’t be with your doubtful opinions but rather it lies right in the perpetual, authoritative Magisterium through which Christ teaches and commands unto the end. According to you, however, we are abandoned and know not exactly what it is we are to do. That’s just crazy talk, and blasphemous to boot. Those of good will can or will see through it and see that you make no sense.
That’s correct.
How do you know you are of good will?
What standard do you use?
Is your opinion that you are of good will all you have to go on to be certain that you have this impossible and mysterious crisis all figured out?
You’re not the only one who has prayed and lost more than a few night’s sleep, remember.
St Paul says he does not judge himself, let alone others.
Diversion, TPS. Not going to bite, and not going to bother with someone who still can’t face the music with respect to the SSPX. Waste of time.
It’s not a diversion.
How do you know you’re of good will? A lot is riding on it.
From anywhere other than your own perspective, your answer looks like a dodge.
Your entire platform has been shown to rest upon a single foundation, namely, your opinion that you are of good will, and now that you are faced the question of how you know that to be certain, you can’t satisfactorily answer it.
It absolutely is diversion, and I have addressed those points before without even being asked.
You base your premise on personal opinions, be they your own or those of others. I (or we) have answered with PROOFS from the Magisterium of Holy MOTHER Church (CHRIST), and you and the MAJORITY proceed to repeatedly REJECT the Perpetual and Permanent teaching Magisterium (Christ’s Voice). It was always to be so, as FEW are saved, de Fide. As such, my chances of being saved are far and away greater than yours. God cannot and will not hold obedience in Good Faith against a person, but He will damn a person for willful disobedience.
Is Satis Cognitum 9. my opinion? Hardly. It IS your opinion that it – along with all else Magisterial that has been presented – can be rejected simply in order that you may do your OWN will and have your doubtful Sacraments. Who’s position is the safest and surest? Oh nevermind, you don’t seem too concerned…
I write not for you or the others who are obstinate in the face of Christ’s Voice, but for those who need that last bit of help as I once did.
See you on Judgment Day; it may come sooner than you want to believe.
May God have mercy on your soul and mine.
“My chances of being saved are far and away greater than yours.”
I don’t think that’s an advisable thing to go around saying, or even thinking.
You pathetic, non-Catholic, imbecilic, miscreant fool, as so called TPS, who continues to blaspheme The Christ in His divine Magisterium, where He teaches and governs, deFide,
Apostolic Succession was forever lost, deFide, on October 27, 1958, 18 days after the death of Pope Pius XII, 61 years and almost 2 months ago, as when a true, canonically valid conclave was to meet by and without exception, with whatever number of Cardinals were then present in Rome, as to begin the business of selecting the next True Vicar of Jesus Christ. Pope Pius XII, with his full Apostolic Authority commanded that every detail must be followed as exactly without any change, as in deletion or addition, or alteration, requiring our full assent of faith, at the pain of Hell, as per the Vatican Council’s Authoritative teaching and affirmed in, “Ad Apostolorum Principis”, whereby the faithful must assent to the governing Authority of Blessed Peter in his Successors, with the SAME assent of faith as to his teaching on Faith and Morals, Amen. Pope Pius XII further commanded that anything that occurred by any other path to elect the next Vicar of Christ, than the precise one he established without exception, was to be as, “NULL AND VOID”. Amen.
You affront this teaching so called TPS, you heretical fool, and you affront, “Satis Cognitum”, which Authoritatively teaches that the power of Jurisdiction rests in the Vicar of Christ as exclusively and without him, as in the loss of Apostolic Succession unto the Last Day, as this was to happen only once, deFide, there is NO JURISDICTION TO SUPPLY IN THE COSMOS, you imbecilic idiot, as you cannot offer the water in your cup, when that same cup is empty of water, you sophomoric fool. God help you, as you like Tom A, and all the rest of you non-Catholic, neo-pagan, religion of man heretics as mmf, are on your sure as certain paths to Hell. As The Christ commanded: “You will KNOW them by their fruits”, and the evil fruit He would be damning to Hell, as He commanded. Amen. In caritas
It’s called discernment, and it’s based on the fact that you hold non-Catholic beliefs and place affronts to the Holy Magisterium.
Again:
[1]”…for men are not bound, or able, to read hearts; but when they see that someone is a heretic by his external works, they judge him to be a heretic pure and simple, and condemn him as a heretic.”
[St. Robert Bellarmine, De Romano Pontifice, II, 30.]
Tom A and his sycophants all on their sure paths to Hell:
I read the filth that you write Tom A, you imbecilic, pseudo-intellectual fool, while at once bearing witness as you write in your utterly inverted platitudes of malignant self-love, while on your sure as certain path to an eternity with your Prince, who leads you in your very own as personal screeching cacophony of, “non-Servium”, while yet this side the veil, you neo-pagan miscreant. Who the hell do you think that you are Tom A, really? You defy the Magisterium as that same Ordinary and Universal Magisterium commands itself to be The Christ Teaching and Governing His Church, as it is divine law and perpetual in, “Satis Cognitum”, deFide. Amen. Alleluia.
You, as Martin Luther before you, utterly deny the Vicar of Christ as the Supreme Pastor of The Christ’s Church, as you speak in such profane as hideous, vane vernacular about the Magisterium as being somehow dead, as useless to those who actually hold the Catholic Faith unlike you, as the Popes who protected and guarded the Holy Faith there, as perfectly unblemished from all error, are now gone from this hideous world. Amen. You deny Jesus the Christ, as you hate Him, you hideous wretch, as He Teaches and Governs His Church in His Living Magisterium unto the Last Day, deFide, as the Magisterium is PERPETUAL. Amen. You hate The Christ as you literally as actually suggest that He has abandoned His Church, as you claim a true Catholic cannot know Truth, you infantile idiot as blaspheming fool. Your doubt will take you to Hell, deFide, Tom A, as only Truth takes you to Heaven. Truth is not found in doubt and human opinion holds doubt from its very essence, you pseudo-intellectual, non-Catholic, non-scholastic fool. “Seek the Truth and yea shall find it”. Jesus the Christ’s command Tom A. You blaspheme Him you utterly hideous wretch. What do you claim the Son of God meant there, Tom A, you neo-pagan heathen? How about this command, you Luciferian wretch: He who KNOWS MY commands and follows them, loves Me, and as I Am in the Father, you are in Me, and I in you. What does that mean, you pseudo-intellectual idiot? One can only KNOW TRUTH and get to Heaven you wretched fool Tom A. The Christ’s commands are His divine Magisterium. The intellect must first inform the will and then by the reception of God’s grace alone, can the will then see the truth, by perfectly conforming to it, and choose it thus, you idiot. That is the teaching of the Angelic Doctor. Deny it and you deny the Faith, as it was received into the Magisterium as the only method of rightly reasoning to Truth. Amen.
If a Vicar of Christ was now present in the world, he COULD NOT FURTHER CLARIFY what is contained in the Magisterium, deFide, as Truth is perfect and the divine Magisterium is Truth as it is infallible, thus without error. To suggest that the Magisterium can be better clarified is heresy itself, as to suggest that perfect Truth can change, denies Jesus Christ as immutable, you pseudo-intellectual, miscreant fool. Save your soul Tom A. Deny your utterly hideous self and submit to Jesus the Christ in His divine Magisterium. You are blind to its meaning as Pope Leo XIII taught would be the case of any heretic as you are and in, “Satis Cognitum”. Amen. Alleluia. In caritas.
The Papal Subject: “That’s correct.”
Until that particular sub-forum goes public again, I wouldn’t even consider becoming a member of it. Suscipe Domine forum has really just become a more conservative version of Catholic Answers Forum.
ASB, since there is no authority, I do the same thing you do. Pray, read Sacred Scripture, read magisterial documents prior to 1958, read commentary by approved theologians prior to 1958. I use the same tactics to discern Truth that you do. The fact that we come to differing conclusions is proof positive that your system does not protect you from error. I am 100% ready to assent to an earthly authority. Someone please show me one that has the authority from Christ to teach. Dead Popes cannot govern from the grave. You and that clown IC have made it quite clear that lack of Papal authority has cut off apostolic succession, but you still cling to Papal authority in order to justify that apostolic succession has ceased. Talk about a circular contradiction! You cannot have it both ways.
You miserable non-Catholic, neo-pagan, adherent to the religion of man, on your sure as certain path to your very own personal eternity in Hell. Amen.
And again to the one who calls himself Tom A, for the sake of those humble souls who are truly as genuinely interested in glorifying Almighty God in assuring their own salvation, you utterly affront the Magisterium as per the Authoritative and infallible teaching in, “VAS”, whereby the last true Vicar of Christ this hideous world will ever see or know, whose Prince is Lucifer and you are his slave Tom A, taught and at the very pain of Hell, for affronting the governing Authority of Peter in any iota of any way, as we must submit to the governing Authority of Blessed Peter in his Successors and with the very same assent of faith as to their teaching on Faith and Morals, that Apostolic Succession is now lost, and that ANYTHING as EVERYTHING that the Ordinary and Universal Magisterium holds in both teaching and governance, remains as it is UNTOUCHED and IN FULL FORCE, unto the time as if it were to be, that the next true Vicar of Christ alters that WHICH ONLY HE CAN.
Your god is your mirror Tom A and what you see must as it only can be utterly wretched as it is hideous, you non-Catholic, non-scholastic, imbecilic idiot. You already screech in the cacophony of the Hell this side the veil, which you will most certainly know for all eternity, should you not submit to the divine and perpetual Holy Magisterium, which simply IS THE CHRIST now teaching and governing His true children unto the Last Day. “You will KNOW them by their fruits.” An evil tree CANNOT bear good fruit. My sheep hear My voice and I know them and they follow Me. Amen. Alleluia. Tom A hears the voice of Lucifer and follows him into his abysmal slavery of the religion of man, as the religion of self. Amen. Tom A is bound to himself, in his own diabolically perverse inversion of truth, as that is what religion is after all, that which binds the miserable human creature to his God, as Tom A simply is his own god, as he objectively evidences by his poisonous fruit of satanic error. Amen. Alleluia.
You defy the very meaning of the word, “PERPETUAL”, which Pope Leo XIII infallibly as Authoritatively taught the Magisterium simply IS, “PERPETUAL”, in, “Satis Cognitum”, you non-Catholic, neo-pagan worshipper of your own hideous as perverse mind. Amen. This is all nothing more than but a sycophantic game for you, the hideous one, as Tom A. You damn yourself time and time and time and again in so much of what you write, you hideous imbecile, bearing witness as you do, to precisely what, “OBSTINATE HERETIC”, means, you pathetic, perverse, wretch, with a mind so inverted and thus darkened, that all you can see is your own fiat, you hideous fool. The Truth is hard Tom A. Submit to Him in His divine, living as perpetual teaching and governing Holy Magisterium, Tom A, as The Christ commanded that He would be with His true children unto the Consummation of the world. He IS HERE, Tom A, while at once you are perfectly blind to that Authoritative teaching and governing reality as it is, truth thus. You are a powerless and Godless fool and your anger speaks to your miserable fear, as you shudder in terror in side, if you have even a chance to save your wretched soul, in your obstinence, as you continually evidence the evil fruit of your mind. Amen. The Christ will cast you into the fire for all eternity, you pathetic fool, as only He commanded about the evil tree. Amen. Alleluia.
And finally for now, for those who are receiving any inkling of Almighty God’s grace to see the Truth, find here as now copied and pasted from, “Satis Cognitum”, that Authoritative teaching and binding Governance of the Prince of the Apostles, as can only be found within the perpetual, unchanging, and UNENDING, DIVINE, Ordinary and Universal Magisterium. Amen. Alleluia.
“Wherefore, from the very earliest times the fathers and doctors of the Church have been accustomed to follow and, with one accord to defend this rule. Origen writes: “As often as the heretics allege the possession of the canonical scriptures, to which all Christians give unanimous assent, they seem to say: `Behold the word of truth is in the houses.’ But we should believe them not and abandon not the primary and ecclesiastical tradition. We should believe not otherwise than has been handed down by the tradition of the Church of God” (Vetus Interpretatio Commentariorum in Matt. n. 46). Irenaeus too says: “The doctrine of the Apostles is the true faith…which is known to us through the Episcopal succession…which has reached even unto our age by the very fact that the Scriptures have been zealously guarded and fully interpreted” (Contra Haereses, lib. iv., cap. 33, n. 8). And Tertullian: “It is therefore clear that all doctrine which agrees with that of the Apostolic churches – the matrices and original centres of the faith, must be looked upon as the truth, holding without hesitation that the Church received it from the Apostles, the Apostles from Christ and Christ from God….We are in communion with the Apostolic churches, and by the very fact that they agree amongst themselves we have a testimony of the truth” (De Praescrip., cap. xxxi). And so Hilary: “Christ teaching from the ship signifies that those who are outside the Church can never grasp the divine teaching; for the ship typifies the Church where the word of life is deposited and preached. Those who are outside are like sterile and worthless sand: they cannot comprehend” (Comment. in Matt. xiii., n. I). Rufinus praises Gregory of Nazianzum and Basil because “they studied the text of Holy Scripture alone, and took the interpretation of its meaning not from their own inner consciousness, but from the writings and on the authority of the ancients, who in their turn, as it is clear, took their rule for understanding the meaning from the Apostolic succession” (Hist. Eccl., lib. ii., cap. 9). ”
To edify that most salient point present within the above part of, “Satis Cognitum”, as Tom A perfectly evidences this particular, “reality as it is”, and he as every other perfectly miserable creature is perfectly powerless to change this truth, as Tom A evidences it perfectly, find now as again from, “Satis Cognitum”, as pasted above, the following:
“Irenaeus too says: “The doctrine of the Apostles is the true faith…which is known to us through the Episcopal succession…which has reached even unto our age by the very fact that the Scriptures have been zealously guarded and fully interpreted” (Contra Haereses, lib. iv., cap. 33, n. 8). And Tertullian: “It is therefore clear that all doctrine which agrees with that of the Apostolic churches – the matrices and original centres of the faith, must be looked upon as the truth, holding without hesitation that the Church received it from the Apostles, the Apostles from Christ and Christ from God….We are in communion with the Apostolic churches, and by the very fact that they agree amongst themselves we have a testimony of the truth” (De Praescrip., cap. xxxi). And so Hilary: “Christ teaching from the ship signifies that those who are outside the Church can never grasp the divine teaching; for the ship typifies the Church where the word of life is deposited and preached. Those who are outside are like sterile and worthless sand: they cannot comprehend” (Comment. in Matt. xiii., n. I).”
And so now finally, copied from that just above as to fully edify precisely as exactly, just who the likes of Tom A and his ilk actually are. Find this:
“And so Hilary: “Christ teaching from the ship signifies that those who are outside the Church can never grasp the divine teaching; for the ship typifies the Church where the word of life is deposited and preached. Those who are outside are like sterile and worthless sand: they cannot comprehend” (Comment. in Matt. xiii., n. I).”
Tom A simply chooses in his malignant love of himself, thus his hatred of The Christ, not to comprehend. He simply cannot comprehend, as he is immanently powerless to do so as infallibly taught, that which has been Authoritatively and infallibly given us, as to submit to and at the very pain of each our own personal eternity in Hell, for any iota of the rejection of same. Nowhere is it to be found in, “Satis Cognitum”, or anywhere in the divine Magisterium, that the Successor of Blessed Peter as the Vicar of Christ, must again, “interpret”, for us that which he has already infallibly interpreted as to be Truth. A properly catechized 12 year old must know this to save his soul, as to suggest that Truth must be reinterpreted, is to defy Who Truth Is, the IMMUTABLE divine Second Person of the Triune Godhead. Amen. Alleluia. Pure as utter heresy in itself, this hideously errant opinion of Tom A. May anyone who is truly interested in saving his soul, receive the grace which only the Blessed Virgin can bestow, as the Mediatrix of all grace and mercy. Amen. Alleluia. In caritas.
And of course 2Vermont,
More evidence of public division, perfectly contrary to the, “Unity of Faith”, in the, “Unity of Communion”, you non-Catholic fool. You cannot even see that which you write as evidencing the reality as it simply is, that the Church is not to be found as anywhere now, publically, as it simply is in, “eclipse”, you miscreant fool. Amen. Save your soul. Submit to the divine and perpetual Ordinary and Universal Magisterium, where The Christ simply IS NOW Teaching and Governing His true children who actually hold the Truth within the deepest interiority of their souls, as the true Church teaches and as He commanded that He would be with us, those who hold the Faith, unto the Consummation of this hideous world, to which you belong. Amen. Alleluia. Submit you miserable woman. In caritas.
Tom A,
According to you, the Cburch is merely some EARTHLY institution, established and ruled by men, when in fact the ultimate and Supreme Head of the Church IS Jesus Christ, who reigns and rules from above, speaking to us through His authentic Magisterium – PERPETUALLY. “Eternal Rome”, Tom? The Church Militant, The Church Suffering, The Church TRIUMPHANT, Tom? The MYSTICAL Body of Christ, Tom?
Because there is no Pope you say – and contrary to the very Voice of Christ through His Vicars/Magisterium – that we need not obey; you are clearly hearkening to the wrong voice. The Church is ONE; there is NO unity according to you and yours, no standard, instructions or Authority to follow in order to keep the Faith. This malignant and diabolical attitude is 100% NON-CATHOLIC. Your position IS heretical and must be rejected by any poor, confused soul reading this today who only desires the Truth, and has come to understand what it means when we are told that the Faith comes before Sacraments, a doubtful Sacrament is no Sacrament, and that we must KNOW from whence our pastors come.
You have repeatedly implied for all to see that you do not possess moral certitude regarding your position; as such you can’t see that your position is the risky one? You play Russian Roulette with your very soul, and well-hidden from you is the fact that there is NO empty chamber in your pistol.
Beggar-Caritas claims:
“My chances of being saved are far and away greater than yours.”
&
“You,… on your sure as certain path to your very own personal eternity in Hell. Amen.”
Wow! The arrogance of this woman is horrible.
The Holy Word: Jesus the Christ, shall return and judge the living from the dead. Amen.
I think they are getting desperate/fearful/worried/anxious that others don’t draw the same conclusion from the same data as they do. How can this be explained? Well, others must be in the state of mortal sin, and this pair are in the state of grace. Yes, they have that ability to read souls. Them and God. No one else.
That’s when the gloves come off, and terms like miscreant fool, imbecile and the rest, along with CAPS LOCK appear with more frequency.
Now, converts to the Faith are great and all, and they become real members of the Church, but I believe St Benedict said it takes five generations to produce an authentic Catholic. Five generations to get the un Catholic mode of thought and behavior out.
Their zeal is admirable, but they seem to have the extremist, immoderate behaviour that converts often display, untempered by the mysterious quality that comes from centuries of ancestors passing on the Faith. The Dimond Brothers are a classic example.
Recent converts can go on to become great saints, but they shouldn’t be teaching those who have inherited the Faith from millennia of family tradition.
I am happy to be shot down for this post if I’m wrong.
The Papal Subject: “I believe St Benedict said it takes five generations to produce an authentic Catholic. Five generations to get the un Catholic mode of thought and behavior out.”
Interesting. I don’t know that we can generalize all converts in this way, but there is probably some truth in this (ie. perhaps some take longer than others).
Well, myself, and other recent converts would not stand a chance, it seems. Five generations for authenticity, you say? Is that all? Can one be saved if they are not “authentically” Catholic? If they are un-Catholic? And “authentic” Catholicism then is actually, as you say, even “genetically” passed on? Bloodlines of faith inherited? Centuries of authentic Catholic “evolution” of the species, I’m guessing. And obviously then, Catholics blessed by this generational, evolutionary inherited faith, must just keep getting better and better. I’ve been noticing that.
Well those throwbacks who weren’t born into an authentic Catholic family may as well pack it in. We haven’t got enough against us as it is. Camps upon camps, all claiming to be Catholic, all believing different things. Endless contradiction, twisting new converts into knots. Well maybe in five more succeeding generations my family will stand a chance to be finally authentically Catholic. Maybe…but then again maybe not. Might even take a millennia.
Until then it seems, it’s no use, we’ll have no other choice but to just go drag our sorry, un-Catholic knuckles elsewhere.
And wait for the real and authentic Catholics to sort it all out.
No one said a convert couldn’t be saved. Of course converts are as much a Catholic as someone who descends from an unbroken lineage which goes back to St Patrick in Ireland, or St Paul himself in Greece or Malta.
St Benedict was talking about the culture of being Catholic, as in the way the Church moulds a person over time, and the way it moulds entire generations over longer periods of time, and eventually you get authentic Catholic culture.
If your grand parents and parents, your uncles and aunts, your cousins, your friends of the family, your childhood friends and their families were Catholic, it’s going to produce a Catholic manner of influence, because that’s what the Faith does. It regulates and moderates every facet of life, and that takes time.
A convert is a wonderful miracle of grace, and a great thing to see someone come to the Church and begin the life of a Catholic.
Converts have a great zeal, but they can sometimes go to an extreme position on this or that, which you don’t ordinarily find in the cradle of the cradle of the cradle Catholic.
St Benedict said it. I didn’t make it up, but I was thinking that the ultra extreme, borderline fanaticism on this comments community is likely St Benedict’s observation showing itself to be true.
Perhaps when one comes into the Church, he should practice the meekness which Our Lord says is the single virtue which we are to imitate and learn from.
Perhaps those full of zeal should take a step back, and try to learn how to be Catholic. I’m not meaning to insult anyone, and I know it’s a delicate subject, but it is a real thing.
I guess it’s the converts who mainly go to the stay at home position in response to the crisis, while others who, weighing up exactly the same data, are not so quick to go to the edge, or then turn around and blast the living daylights out of anyone who is not 100% with them.
Jesus meek and humble of heart, make my heart like thine.
Dear james__o,
It is truly as unutterably stunning, bearing witness to the likes of these actual as immanently non-Catholic, neo-pagan, religion of self, freaks, writing of those which they simply cannot know one iota of anything personal about, actually write as though they know the other’s heritage now. TPS and 2Vermont utterly intellectively darkened and absent the Holy Faith, corrected by the Magisterium time and time and time and again, yet remaining blind and obstinate, thus each objectively on his own personal path to his very own eternity in Hell, deFide, as outside the true Church NO SALVATION CAN BE FOUND, deFide. They remain blinded to simply how hideous their souls are, which is objectively known to the few with eyes which see, as the intellect and will are operations of the soul, and language communicates from one to the other, the content of the intellect, as it operates from the soul, and as The Christ commanded: “You will KNOW them by their fruits.”. An evil tree CANNOT bear good fruit. “You will KNOW them by their fruits.” They should literally be shuddering in unimaginable terror, as they rest on the edge of the abyss, and yet they can only remain as effeminized, glib, pseudo-intellectual, non-Catholic, miscreant, obstinate heretics, and they have the audacity to damn you, as a convert, who demonstrates as in your words, your movement into Truth, thus into The Christ and His Mystical Body, the Church. Amen. Alleluia. God bless and keep you and yours’ james__o. In caritas.
TPS, you pseudo-intellectual fool, riddled with diabolical hubris,
You are an idiot TPS. You are no more Catholic than Josef Ratzinger or Jorge Bergoglio, you bumbling fool. Who the hell do you think that you are? You assent to Lumen Gentium 16 by virtue of claiming your membership in Lucifer’s pious deception as, “SSPX”, you foolish imbecilic moron, on your path to Hell. Every time you attempt to show off your pseudo-Catholicity, the Holy as divine Magisterium Judges you to be on your sure as certain path to Hell, and you are repeatedly warned you miscreant imbecile and you remain obstinate in blindness. The Hell that is awaiting you and your non-Catholic sect ilk, is not able to be glimpsed in the imaginative power. Save your wretched soul, you idiot. In caritas.
And to the idiot who blasphemes the Papacy in calling himself, TPS,
That’s because you and your perfectly blinded foolish ilk are not in the Church, you imbecilic fool. It has nothing to do personally with us perfectly, miserable wretches and our opinions, you perfectly blinded idiot. It is the Holy Magisterium which Judges you and because you SIMPLY DO NOT HOLD THE FAITH, you remain blind to what it teaches, AS INFALLIBLY TAUGHT in, “Satis Cognitum”, you non-Catholic, religion of self, neo-pagan fool, on your way to Hell. Amen. Save your soul wretch. In caritas.
Oh’ Joseph a NON-Christian,
That’s what they said about Joan of Ark, you imbecilic, non-Catholic, pseudo-intellectual, who writes in obtuse as non-sensical, glib platitudes. Save your soul, you non-Christian foolish imbecile. In caritas.
I knew you’d pour out your wrath. It’s getting old. I don’t read much of your posts, but just skim quickly.
Just out of interest, were your parents and grandparents and great grandparents Catholic? There’s absolutely nothing wrong with you if they weren’t, but if you could answer yes or no that would be great.
It’s Arc, not Ark. A real Catholic knows this. An imbecilic neo pagan foolish apostate miscreant doesn’t.
See? It’s tired already.
The Truth is hard TPS,
This is not enjoyable in any glimpse of an understanding, yet it must be done, for my own salvation as well as that of assisting the other in my midst. Amen. Alleluia. There is no Protestant break in my family history. What happened in Oct., 1958, though and of course, no miserable human wretch is somehow immune to, if you will. By the reception of the grace of Almighty God alone, do I save my wretched soul, TPS. In caritas.
Thanks for the correction, TPS…….In caritas.
You are welcome IC. Typos happen. I was jesting about the rest as you guessed.
I don’t damn anyone, and ask that you take that back. Re read my post.
Good Friday morning TPS,
My language was too hard contra you there, I stand corrected. You did not, “damn”, anyone per se. Forget the heritage stuff though, as we are living in the time of desolation after Antichrist. This is NOT a game, as my soul and yours’, etc. are at eternal stake. The prize here is the Beatific Vision. Amen. Alleluia. Any Catholicity that has been, “acquired”, vis a vis familial posterity, if you will, is long gone. We live the pinnacle time TPS. Almighty God has willed this for all of us. Amen. Alleluia. Perhaps God will Create some good from the back and forth that you and I are now embracing. His Will be done, mine be suppressed as it pleases Him alone. All we can beg Him for is Truth in Caritas. For the Latinist, I guess something like, in Caritate. A Latinist, I wish I was. God bless you TPS. “See you”, in a couple days. In caritas.
Well, thanks for that IC.
I wasn’t aware that there was a difference between been being Catholic, which is a sort of sort of a “peasant” type, and and then there is the obviously superior “authentically Catholic”, which of course is reserved for cradle Catholics alone.
I’m much relieved to read that even converts could somehow have a chance to be saved, in spite of their ignorance and misplaced zeal, if they are meek enough.