In light of the utterly feeble “Declaration” that was issued in Rome following the April 7th conference entitled, Catholic Church: Where are you heading? Only a blind man can deny that there is great confusion in the Church, akaCatholic invites you to act on the following:
“Therefore we testify and confess…”
Due to the blasphemous and heretical content proposed in the Apostolic Exhortation (so-called) Amoris Laetitia, countless souls throughout the world are being led to perdition.
In the face numerous requests – put forth by both churchmen and laymen on multiple occasions – to confirm his brethren in the Faith, and to correct the grave errors contained in this text, as well as the pastoral initiatives (so-called) derived therefrom, “Francis” (as he is commonly known) has notoriously displayed pertinacity in adhering to, and promoting, blasphemy and heresy under the guise of “authentic magisterium.”
Amidst this grave danger to souls, we, and indeed every Soldier for Christ, are thus obligated not only to reaffirm the one true Faith in all things, but also to make known to all with ears to hear, in accordance with the authentic tradition of the Holy Catholic Church and the words of Sacred Scripture, that:
Having been admonished on multiple occasions, Jorge Mario Bergoglio (aka “Francis”) is condemned by his own judgment, and having shown himself to be a heretic, he must therefore be avoided. (cf Titus 3:10-11)
Furthermore, let it be known to all that:
By knowingly, publicly, and obstinately rejecting that which must be believed with divine and Catholic faith, Jorge Mario Bergoglio has, by his own volition, severed himself from the Mystical Body of Christ of which he is presently no longer a member.
Our Lord Jesus Christ said to the Pharisees: “But if I say the truth, you believe me not. Which of you shall convince me of sin? If I say the truth to you, why do you not believe me: He that is of God heareth the words of God. Therefore you hear them not, because you are not of God. (John 8:45-47)
With confidence in the immutable truths of the Holy Catholic faith, we invite all who are of God, most especially the cardinals and bishops, to either convince us that what is stated above concerning Amoris Laetitia and Jorge Mario Bergoglio is untrue, or to join us in affirming the contents of this Declaration.
Where do we sign up?
I will not sign this distraction. Its sole putpose is to advance the agenda of the neo conservative conciliar catholics. Better a Bergolio make a mockery of the false church than another Ratzinger cleverly shield its evil deceptions.
Neither will I. Couldn’t have said it better my friend.
So, again I ask, what validly consecrated bishop or current cardinal would either you or 2Vermont recommend to elect as pope?
Louie, I applaud your efforts. However, I think it would make a greater impact if faithful Catholics will “sign out” of the N.O. V2 fake church. If a restaurant is dishing out rancid food, should you continue to go there?
If not from the Latin rite, then who in any of the Catholic Eastern rites?
The first issue at hand is to avoid and reject “clergy” who are invalidly consecrated and non-Catholic, isn’t it?
To suggest that the premise is faulty, by appealing to the fact that the highly inconvenient and unprecedented conclusion is a stalemate, is putting the cart before the horse.
As long as you pick out the fecal matter that is in the dish, and leave it on the side of the plate, I don’t see a problem.
Al, one need not be a bishop or cardinal or even a priest to be elected Pope. Simply a baptized male who professes the Catholic faith.
I get yor point and agree but the counter-Novus Ordo de-evolution has to start somewhere, preferably at the top. In extension to Louie’s declaration I would add that any cleric, be they cardinal, bishop or priest who sides with Bergoglio is equally to be condemned a heretic and lose their office (valid to invalid). Removing just Francis will solve nothing and instead give us a Schonborn.
Tom A, Isn’t this just a warning to Christendom from a man with fortitude and a platform? Sometimes you guys act like every Catholic sitting in a NO pew should be written off. I don’t think that they are stupid or evil or faithless for nailing their paws to the pew like St. Corbinian’s Bear. I think they’re wrong but, it’s not ridiculous wrong. How could anyone have expected this. I’m sorry but if we were warned at La Salette, we were also told by the Church that Melanie Calvat went bananas. I don’t find any of these events self evident and I don’t see any reason to say or do nothing because you can’t say or do the most perfect comprehensive thing.
Agreed. The supply of faithful must be cut from the Novus Ordo masses, parishes and schools. This needs more concrete action and less words. If we use words against modernists they laugh. If we use real action, they will frown. If they lose numbers, they’re finished.
Behold the politics of the sedevacantist.
Louie, perhaps you are sympathetic to their cause or graciously tolerate their remarks but it is now easy to see why they are censored on many Catholic blogs. You see, Louie, they are not concerned that a Pope makes heretical statements or manifests his non catholicity. In fact, they want more of it. And by virtue of their own great thinking on sacramental theology the whole lot of them are only laymen to begin with and not even worth bothering about. Fatima is past, the present is hopeless, and they are reduced to electing one of themselves as Pope. In a word–nihilism.
Please, no more Declarations, Petitions, Corrections, just get on with removing this infidel from the Seat of Peter. The CC cannot maintain Apostolic Succession with a man obdurately manipulating the power invested in that Office to further his Marxist agenda of annihilating the OHC&A Church & paving the way for a godless NWO society. Get him off, make null & void his Exhortaions, Homilies & Sodomite Appointments & then hold a Conclave to elect a truly Catholic prelate who will hold fast to the Dogmas, Scripture, Magisterium & Tradition of the One True Church of Christ. Enough of this farce!
Been there, done that . there is none.
Fr Trenham of the Antiochan Orthodox in Rverside ,Ca is the closest contender . Literally! at least his opinions here would make for a good start.
Melanie, I simply know of no way to compromise with heresy that doesn’t eventually contaminate onself. Why involve oneself in any manner with those who profess a false faith? It was not I who said that if anyone preach a gospel other than the one handed down, let him be anathema. Those in the NO for whatever reason are not treated with charity when we affirm them in thier error. This sounds harsh to 21st century ears since we have had it drilled into our heads for decades that we must celebrate diversity. But if you honestly use your reason, and place the Truth before all human respect, you will see that true charity demands that those stuck in the NO be told the truth regardless of their feelings. If it makes them uncomfortable, so be it. You may be the only messenger they ever have to correct their error.
Are you refering to Bergolio or Ratzinger?
J-Bomb you are right over the target! A separation of the wheat from the chaff is taking place among the Recognize/Resist and Motu Trads (SSPX/Remnant crowd). The number of Sedes and Quasi-Sedes is growing and will continue to grow under this Antipapacy. I eagerly await the next Antipope who will be far more repellant than Jorge and will probably ordain “priestesses.” The “controlled opposition” within the R/R Motu camp will be completely and utterly exposed by that perverse, sinking NO pseudo-barque. The wind of the Holy Spirit will be at the backs of the Traditional movement as “Trad Catholic” will be unequivocally synonymous with Sede Vacantist.
Oh wait !I forgot the powerful cult money making engine of Opus Dei .
See ? They have their church within the church ready to take over and it will even be perceived as being Trad Cath and the savior for the next gen
THEY have the money to do it and succeed. Few will be the wiser.
JP2 was a test balloon.
Did you know Navarro Valls was OD,? Sec of State the corrupt Sodano was also rumored to be OD? This Vatican has done nothing new than was done before under the PR machine of Opus Dei that made Pope JP2 a saint and groomed him for the Papacy?
” Navarro personally engineered the cover-up, “just a few minutes after the shots were fired” that killed the Commandant of the Swiss Guards, Alois Estermann, in the Vatican on May 4, 1998, along with his wife Gladys, by a subordinate, Cedric Tornay, who then committed suicide. Navarro hindered an objective investigation of the matter, blowing it off as “a moment of madness in the course of a personal conflict.” He himself admitted that his purpose was to “defuse a story that would otherwise have been in the newspapers of the whole world for months, causing serious damage to the Holy See.” In other words, the truth of what happened was immaterial to him. Just take the heat off Newvatican for a shocking crime that demanded a thorough and objective investigation. Sounds a lot like the cover-ups of the ongoing Great Sex and Embezzlement Scandal, doesn’t it — further substantiating the fact that Newvatican and the popes are up to their eyeballs in complicity.
The moral of this story is: Don’t believe a thing you hear from Newvatican. It is likely manufactured propaganda for uncritical minds.” ‘
This Declaration concerns PF & that is what I’m replying to. I have no time for the cult of Sedevacantism as you well know & as it has been well covered before & I do not wish to repeat myself on that issue.
Good question. Some grist for the conspiracy mill: https://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2018/04/a-rare-moment-of-clarity-from-cardinal.html
Was the St. Gallen Mafia worried that Ratzinger was going “ask for forgiveness” in this life and pull a partial/wholesale V2 revocation after a “moment of clarity” as his pal Lehmann attempted in his will?
The problem is this now Ana,
How will anyone know what secret society the next contender for the Papacy belongs too?
Retired Bishop Emeritus Rene Gracida (Diocese of Corpus Christi, TX) wrote and posted on his blog this past weekend a wonderful article. I will post it here hoping that Louie will indulge me.
WHERE DO WE GO FROM HERE, NOW THAT THE PRELATES WHO SPOKE AT THE ROME SYMPOSIUM OF 07 APRIL 18 HAVE CALLED FOR ACTION?
Posted on April 7, 2018 by abyssum
Recently many educated Catholic observers, including bishops and priests, have decried the confusion in doctrinal statements about faith or morals made from the Apostolic See at Rome and by the putative Bishop of Rome, Pope Francis. Some devout, faithful and thoughtful Catholics have even suggested that he be set aside as a heretic, a dangerous purveyor of error, as recently mentioned in a number of reports.
Claiming heresy on the part of a man who is a supposed Pope, charging material error in statements about faith or morals by a putative Roman Pontiff, suggests and presents an intervening prior question about his authenticity in that August office of Successor of Peter as Chief of The Apostles, i.e., was this man the subject of a valid election by an authentic Conclave of The Holy Roman Church? This is so because each Successor of Saint Peter enjoys the Gift of Infallibility.
So, before one even begins to talk about excommunicating such a prelate, one must logically examine whether this person exhibits the uniformly good and safe fruit of Infallibility. If he seems repeatedly to engage in material error, that first raises the question of the validity of his election because one expects an authentically-elected Roman Pontiff miraculously and uniformly to be entirely incapable of stating error in matters of faith or morals. So to what do we look to discern the invalidity of such an election? His Holiness, Pope John Paul II, within His massive legacy to the Church and to the World, left us with the answer to this question.
His Apostolic Constitution (Universi Dominici Gregis) which governed the supposed Conclave in March 2013 contains quite clear and specific language about the invalidating effect of departures from its norms. For example, Paragraph 76 states: “Should the election take place in a way other than that prescribed in the present Constitution, or should the conditions laid down here not be observed, the election is for this very reason null and void, without any need for a declaration on the matter; consequently, it confers no right on the one elected.” From this, many believe that there is probable cause to believe that Monsignor Jorge Mario Bergoglio was never validly elected as the Bishop of Rome and Successor of Saint Peter—he never rightly took over the office of Supreme Pontiff of the Holy Roman Catholic Church and therefore he does not enjoy the charism of Infallibility.
What makes this understanding of Universi Dominici Gregis particularly cogent and plausible is the clear Promulgation Clause at the end of this Apostolic Constitution and its usage of the word “scienter” (“knowingly”). Universi Dominici Gregis thus concludes definitively with these words: “. . . knowingly or unknowingly, in any way contrary to this Constitution.” (“. . . scienter vel inscienter contra hanc Constitutionem fuerint excogitata.”) [Note that His Holiness, Pope Paul VI, had a somewhat similar promulgation clause at the end of his corresponding, now abrogated, Apostolic Constitution, Romano Pontifici Eligendo, but his does not use “scienter”, but rather uses “sciens” instead. This similar term of sciens in the earlier abrogated Constitution has an entirely different legal significance than scienter.]
This word, “scienter”, is a legal term of art in Roman law, and in canon law, and in Anglo-American common law, and in each system, scienter has substantially the same meaning, i.e., “guilty knowledge” or willfully knowing, i.e., criminal intent. Thus, it clearly appears that Pope John Paul II anticipated criminal activity in the nature of a sacrilege against a process which He intended to be purely pious, private, sacramental, secret and deeply spiritual in its nature. This contextual reality reinforced in the Promulgation Clause, combined with: (1) the tenor of the whole document; (2) some other provisions of the document, e.g., Paragraph 76; (3) general provisions of canon law relating to interpretation, e.g., Canons 10 & 17; and, (4) the obvious manifest intention of the Legislator, His Holiness, Pope John Paul II, tends to establish beyond a reasonable doubt the legal conclusion that Monsignor Bergoglio was never validly elected Roman Pontiff. This is so because:
1. Communication of any kind with the outside world, e.g., communication did occur between the inside of the Sistine Chapel and anyone outside, including a television audience, before, during or even immediately after the Conclave;
2. Any political commitment to “a candidate” and any “course of action” planned for The Church or a future pontificate, such as the extensive decade-long “pastoral” plans conceived by the Sankt Gallen hierarchs; and,
3. Any departure from the required procedures of the conclave voting process as prescribed and known by a cardinal to have occurred, was made an invalidating act, and if scienter (guilty knowledge) was present, also a crime on the part of any cardinal or other actor, but, whether criminal or not, any such act or conduct violating the norms operated absolutely, definitively and entirely against the validity of all of the supposed Conclave proceedings.
This Apostolic Constitution, Universi Dominici Gregis, which was clearly applicable to the acts and conduct of the College of Cardinals in March 2013, is manifestly and obviously among those “invalidating” laws “which expressly establish that an act is null or that a person is effected” as stated in Canon 10 of the 1983 Code of Canon Law. And, there is nothing remotely “doubtful or obscure” (Canon 17) about this Apostolic Constitution as clearly promulgated by Pope John Paul II. The tenor of the whole document expressly establishes that the issue of invalidity was always at stake. This Apostolic Constitution conclusively establishes, through its Promulgation Clause [which makes “anything done (i.e., any act or conduct) by any person . . . in any way contrary to this Constitution,”] the invalidity of the entire supposed Conclave, rendering it “completely null and void”.
So, what happens if a group of Cardinals who undoubtedly did not participate in any acts of disobedience against Universi Dominici Gregis were to meet, confer and declare that, pursuant to Universi Dominici Gregis, Monsignor Bergoglio is most certainly not a valid Roman Pontiff. Like any action on this matter, including the initial finding of invalidity, that would be left to the valid members of the college of cardinals. They could declare the Chair of Peter vacant and proceed to a new and proper conclave. They could meet with His Holiness, Benedict XVI, and discern whether His resignation and retirement was made under duress, or based on some mistake or fraud, or otherwise not done in a legally effective manner, which could invalidate that resignation. Given the demeanor of His Holiness, Benedict XVI, and the tenor of His few public statements since his departure from the Chair of Peter, this recognition of validity in Benedict XVI seems unlikely.
In fact, even before a righteous group of good and authentic cardinals can decide on the validity of the March 2013 supposed conclave, they must face what may be an even more complicated discernment and decide which men are most likely not valid cardinals. If a man was made a cardinal by the supposed Pope who is, in fact, not a Pope (but merely Monsignor Bergoglio), no such man is in reality a true member of the College of Cardinals. In addition, those men appointed by Pope John Paul II or by Pope Benedict XVI as cardinals, but who were latae sententiae excommunicated because of illegal acts or conduct causing the invalidation of the last attempted conclave, would no longer have voting rights in the College of Cardinals either. The actual valid members in the College of Cardinals may be quite smaller than those on the current official Vatican list of supposed cardinals.
In any event, the entire problem is above the level of anyone else in Holy Mother Church who is below the rank of Cardinal. So, we must pray that The Divine Will of The Most Holy Trinity, through the intercession of Our Lady as Mediatrix of All Graces and Saint Michael, Prince of Mercy, very soon rectifies the confusion in Holy Mother Church through action by those valid Cardinals who still comprise an authentic College of Electors. Only certainly valid Cardinals can address the open and notorious evidence which points to the probable invalidity of the last supposed conclave and only those cardinals can definitively answer the questions posed here. May only the good Cardinals unite and if they recognize an ongoing Interregnum, albeit dormant, may they end this Interregnum by activating perfectly a functioning Interregnum government of The Holy See and a renewed process for a true Conclave, one which is purely pious, private, sacramental, secret and deeply spiritual. If we do not have a real Pontiff, then may the good Cardinals, doing their appointed work “in view of the sacredness of the act of election” “accept the interior movements of the Holy Spirit” and provide Holy Mother Church with a real Vicar of Christ as the Successor of Saint Peter.
…and choose another modernist? Seriously Al and Ana? Where are these pious defenders of the faith left in the Novus Ordo establishment? Name one not corrupted by the modernist heresy defined by Pope St. Pius X. And since they are all corrupted by modernism they cease to be members of the Catholic Church as recently defined by Pope Pius XII.
Hmm ……”invalidly consecrated clergy”….since the words of Ordination have been changed per V2 morphing everything….
Just how many Catholic Cards are left in the deck?
As usual 2 Cents , I am in agreement with you. as you know , I walked out around ’78 when I realized the NO had changed the Holy Sacrifice into a man centered form of entertainment.
I was convinced this was not the place wherein the purpose was to give Honor and Glory to God anymore and Keep Holy the Lord’s Day. Only a very few elderly priests were hanging in there with right reasoning . Since then I have witnessed the continuing dissolution with a plethora of frauds stepping in and eventually showing their true colors.Anywhere and everywhere Truth stepped up to the plate , it was quickly attacked and subverted.
ONLY God Almighty can rectify the absolute corruption within what we call the institutional Catholic Church. The True Catholic Faith is in the catacombs again now and it is difficult to find the entrance to gather together.
Yes Melanie ,there are good people in the NO church pews too but are they really Catholic at this point in time?
Pray the Rosary daily for this Church of Darkness to leave Rome.
sweep–When I first became involved with the SSPX approximately 20 years ago, every priest I had the opportunity to speak to advised me that there are no graces available by participating in the N.O. “mass”. I was told that if it were not possible to attend the TLM on Sundays or Holy Days of Obligation, I should pray the rosary and read the missal for that day. Do you think I would get that same advice today? I don’t think so. Therefore, the N.O. “mass” is now a good source of grace or the SSPX got it wrong and is correcting their position. Many SSPX parishioners feel betrayed because the army they thought they were joining has put down their weapons and are merely “going along to get along”. Am I being too critical of the SSPX leadership?
You haven’t the slightest clue what you’re talking about, Tom A. Prove me wrong. Cite one untruth in this entire post.
Two words of caution:
1) Stay on topic. If you can’t, move on or you will be shown the door.
2) Please keep your comments down to a reasonable length.
WE can’t “get rid of” this awful non-pope. The only means we have of doing so is for as many people as possible to sign petitions like THIS to make our voices heard.
Petitions are proven to work but the PEOPLE are needed to flood the remaining lukewarm loyalist Prelates and the heretics with our objections. Bergoglio’s Cabal have run amok with their evil because the PEOPLE have allowed it by not campaigning for those who have the power to remove him.
Louie is absolutely right. This is a fight for our survival – not a playground squabble. The Venerable Fulton Sheen foretold e hierarchy would do nothing to save the Church and that it was up to the Faithful to badger them and force them to act.
I don’t have much faith in more petitions, declarations, conferences, etc. But since I’ve made it my rule not to allow the perfect to become the enemy of the good, I’ll go ahead and sign.
(Incidentally, it seems that traditional Catholic comboxes and fora are full of retirees. Either they’re retirees with much time on their hands to make extensive comments day after day, week after week, year after year…or they’re neglecting their duties of state and thus providing bad examples at work. Can vigor and virtue be restored by such people?)
Thanks, Alphonsus Jr. I despise petitions. I honestly don’t care who or how many people click the “sign” button. I really just put it there to make a point.
Louie, I don’t believe I said there was an untruth in your post. I said that I will not sign because it simply addresses the problem of Bergolio and not the root cause of the problem which is the entire Vatican 2, Novus Ordo false sect. Many traditionalist falsely believe once Bergolio is out of the way another Ratzinger can be elected that will give generous allowances to the Latin Mass while still spewing its ecumenical heresies.
Dear Tom, I sense your frustration but why are you going on about the “next Pope?” Haven’t you read St Malachy’s prophecy? Benedict was the last pope. Francis is an interloper, a false prophet abounding with his own brand of false “mercy” Since Benedict abdicated the NEXT Pope will be ‘Peter the Roman’ aka Saint Peter.
The prophecies tell us chillingly that we are now living the End Times. We need to be careful that by obsessing on temporal issues we are not neglecting to prepare ourselves and our souls for eternity! May the Holy Spirit remain with us, protect us and help us to prepare for what is to come. Viva Cristo Rey.
You got me, Louie! Now I feel really daft for defending your ‘non-petiton’. But no worries; a little humiliation is good for my sin of pride in counting myself as clever.
That said , thank you for the article; it is brilliant as usual. God bless you.
I’m not one of those many traditionalists. In fact, I call BS. Such persons are not “traditionalists” in any sense of the word.
Frankly, I don’t give a rats ass if you sign or not. Bottom line: address the contents of the post in your comments or keep them to yourself. Got it?
Basically every post I comment on has something to do with Bergolio. My point is very clear. The problem in the Church is much deeper than the blasphemies and hersies of Bergolio. The problem is modernism expressed through Vatican 2 and the NO. Therefore anyone or anything that assigns any value or legitimacy to anything connected with this modernist sect needs to be corrected and or denounced. There is no quarter given in this battle and yet still so many “traditionalists” seek endless compromises with conciliar Rome for a myriad of self centered reasons. In the pursuit of this compromise with error, it is the Faith and Truth that suffers.
Louie, I apologize. Some friends pointed out that I misread the article. I thought you were advocating the “feeble” declaration instead of your own.
First let me say that I am sorry that my post upset you (I know you didn’t call me out, but I did agree with TomA’s initial post). Rest assured, my post was not meant to be an attack on you nor your blog entry. I think that oftentimes TomA and I agree with your entries. In this instance, we just did not. Perhaps I should have given my response more thought and not posted in haste.
Regarding your immediate post above, I absolutely agree with you that those folks are not truly traditionalists and I do not think you are one of those folks (I think based on other posts TomA has made I think it is safe for me to say that he doesn’t think you are either). You have oftentimes come down on Vatican II, “Cardinal” Burke as a man of the Council, that Francis isn’t the problem, etc, etc. There is no question that you see the bigger picture here. In fact, I am surprised that you didn’t mention Vatican II here as you have in the past (unless I missed it). I think this is probably the piece that was missing for me.
2 Cents , I can ONLY reply as someone who got close enough to the sspx working establishment (nuns , priests and volunteers), beyond just being a parishioner at one of their chapels.
The ARE NO WHERE NEAR the education levels of pre Vat 2 priests nuns and laypeople in the Faith.
It is like looking onto a dark mirror of people all dressed up as they believe Trad Catholics should look. Some look like Little House on the Prairie, others dress like Amish, some dress like psuedo nuns and so on………….Using this mental image as an example. This is EXACTLY where their knowledge of the Faith is too.
So how far back do we go to find Truth? Middle Ages , the Fifties, Council of Trent or way back to the first three or four centuries before lust for power greed and property polluted what became a clandestine labyrinth of a Monarchy with court liars and jesters of every kind.
Louie , petitions only seemed to work about thirty or forty years ago. No one cares now.
Rather, relatively few care. And among those who do care are those who have little faith in petitions etc.
In any event, as Louie has now made clear, this post was really an editorial in the form of a petition.
Fear not Ms. Milan, God will have His day. You can take it to the bank. This will all get sorted out in God’s good time, which will not likely be to our liking in the manner it gets executed. However, when the Son of Man cometh, will He find faith on earth, think you?
Honestly, I think people prefer a feeble declaration. I have a very type A retired law enforcement Dad and he is always the first and only one in a room to say or do what is necessary, whether it be correcting a wrong or saving a life (he’s literally a hero atleast 5 times over). People get very angry w/him when the peace is disturbed; they think if you just cower the bad thing will go away, whether it’s someone choking or a menacing criminal. “What a built up sense of frustration and urgency was being released, begging the pastors of the Church to act to protect us!“ they loved that feeble declaration. I bet they’ll have another one too.
The point to me is that souls are being damaged and lost by the failure by those with the platform and statute, to condemn heresy and instruct people to avoid Bergolio, regardless of whether you think those cardinals or priests with the platform have valid ordination etc etc.. The point is people need to be warned that he is spiritually dangerous. That is most urgent in my book. Despite what some have expressed in this forum, it is important not to give up on NO Catholics, I was one, Louie was one, not all of us where blessed to be born before V2 and have people with knowledge to guide us early on. I appreciate Louie’s point, it makes clear the stark contrast between what is needed, and what people are actually hearing who are not yet traditional true Catholics.
“Despite what some have expressed in this forum, it is important not to give up on NO Catholics, I was one, Louie was one, not all of us where blessed to be born before V2 and have people with knowledge to guide us early on.”
It appears you are making assumptions about some of us. I was also Novus Ordo, but what got me (and many of us) out of the Novus Ordo was recognizing the real problem: Vatican II. It’s false ecclesiology, its false ecumenism, its false religious liberty, etc, etc. Francis may be the first step out for folks, but if Men-of-the-Council (and that means all of the conservative faves, Burke, Schneider, Sarah, etc) only call him out all they do is legitimize all that came before him. So, as long as you have the next pope speaking the truth about marriage those in the Novus Ordo church will think all is honky dory again. No, any condemnation of Francis must include condemnation of what brought him to the fore…and these men CAN NOT do this unless they convert to the Catholic Faith themselves.
I am on the same page with you about V2 and the underlying problem. However, I do not see condemning heresy as being something to only do if you can condemn all of it at the same time.
For example, if you are in a jungle and have only three seconds to prevent a man from eating a poisonous berry, you are going to use that time to say, “Stop, that will kill you!” Then he remains alive to explain why, teach him other things he needs to understand to stay alive, etc. You don’t spend your three seconds explaining what is inside the berry that makes it poisonous before you get to the point that it will kill them. They will be dead by then. I’m sure this analogy can be attacked in numerous ways, however, the point is that I think it is critical to impart that it is poison. I am not thinking strategy or what decisions will get the church hierarchy back on track with the true church, I will leave that to God and offer my prayers and spread the truth when opportunities allow. However, if you wait for the time to explain the whole problem, souls will be lost that could have been helped.
I just don’t understand why it can’t all be handled at one time. Perhaps Vatican II leaders condemn Francis and then on the heels of that Catholic bishops condemn the Vatican II leaders…..
but isn’t that what the Catholic bishops have been doing all along? Isn’t this really about who is actually listening/looking for the Truth?
Now is the time that many NO types are waking up and paying attention. Trads need to strike now with the whole Truth before the next Ratzinger or JP2 comes along and they all go back to sleep.
And that is why we should always be critical of anything that puts the focus solely on Bergolio.
Exactly, Sweep. The issue of a future conclave is NOT incidental. That is why a responsible adult Catholic state representative of a majority Catholic country or countries must oversee the operation of any future conclave. That is what occurred at the Council of Constance. It was not a perfect conclave but three popes were deposed and the Catholic world recognized the new pope, Martin V. In the current scenario, only an inquisition with powers of investigation can satisfy the need for qualified candidates. Yes, Tom A. is correct. Any CATHOLIC MAN,(no transgenders need apply), may be elected pope. The problem as alluded to by Sweep, is that the power structure of the church has been corrupted by secret societies, the focus here has been on Opus Dei, but I believe the mother organization is freemasonry and Talmudic Judiaism. Only candidates who can survive intense investigation, moral, familial, doctrinal, and financial to show no such connections to secret societies or other heresies should be eligible to be elected pope.
None that I can think of. That is the reality.
Paul VI DID change the rites of holy orders – that’s a simple fact – and it was in the essential parts which Pius XII said are the minimum necessary for validity. Both the Priesthood and the Episcopate.
A pope does not need to be a bishop or a cardinal. The only requirement is that he be a Catholic selected by the required number of cardinals. Technically, Louie could be the next pope. By the way, the requirement that the person elected be Catholic leaves Bergoglio out. See, Benedict for all kinds of reasons, is still pope. And that makes Bergoglio, oh my; Barnhardt has been right all along.
TradP, the requirement that the man elected be Catholic also leaves Ratzinger out.
From my experience, it seems that discovering the truth of the church that’s been hidden and buried since V2 came about in stages, where I had to understand a framework that I should have already understood if I was raised after V2. It doesn’t happen overnight. People all innately understand natural law and are responsible for it, but the teachings of the church analyzed and laid out by doctors of the church does not come without education. Just to understand why V2 is an aberration involves a degree of background knowledge that is hard to impart in a “declaration”. Its involved. I’m not saying there is anyone incapable of understanding what the church teaches and Christ demands through His church, I’m just saying that it isn’t taught in one sitting. That was the context underlying my other comments.
She’s half right, on a technicality.
No worries and no need to apologize. I probably should have been able to figure that out on my own. Thanks so much!
Signing a petition won’t help I will be ignored as usual. But then again there is strength in numbers. If enough Catholics do what is asked then there will be no need for petitions which is simply, an easy way to protest. And I agree with many on here it’s not dealing with the root cause of the problem. Just a one so called pope. Popes come and go. But to defend the Holy See from such corruption as per the instructions laid out for us is the only solution. Get the n board with that and I’m