It is telling commentary on the deplorable state of the Church to witness so-called “conservative” Catholics gushing with admiration for Fr. Ray Kelly’s performance. One fairly well known commentator (who in charity I won’t name) even suggested that our liturgies need more of this sappy sentimentalism!
I don’t think it’s an overstatement to say that the vast majority of Catholic have lost almost entirely, or never really had, a sense of the sacred.
So… just in case there are any such persons reading this blog, I’ll give a quick snapshot of what makes Father’s “gift” to the happy couple so regrettable.
Whether or not this took place before or after the Mass had ended isn’t the point; as though all bets are off unless we’re technically speaking of the liturgy proper. That some even feel compelled to split those hairs is a sign of their poor condition.
The Rites of Holy Mass and Holy Matrimony are, of course, sacred, but so too is the space in which they take place; the same that we occupy before and after the actual rite. In any event, one thing should be clear to all, the sanctuary isn’t Fr. Kelly’s or anyone’s personal stage. The altar isn’t his music stand. The assembly isn’t his audience.
It would be sacrilegious to have any kind of a performance in a Church before the Blessed Sacrament. Most people seem to know that even if just intuitively.
Now, even considering in charity that Fr. Kelly means well and is simply a product of a deplorable formation, consider the impact of his showmanship.
We live in an age wherein marriage is viewed as a purely human construct; a contract between two individuals who are motivated, be it by what one might reasonably call love all the way to what is more properly considered mutual lust, to validate their relationship in the eyes of others. “Marriage” as popularly conceived is all about us, in other words, so much so that the abominable concept of “gay marriage” is considered by many, including self-identified Catholics, as possible and even laudable.
Fr. Kelly’s little moment in the spotlight only managed to solidify that erroneous view. He turned the sacred mystery of sacramental union among spouses in Christ in the Rite of Holy Matrimony by grace into an earthbound stage act fueled by fleeting emotions.
The people in that wretched video are victims. They don’t know any better. Neither does Fr. Kelly in all likelihood. He is obviously a product of newchurch wherein practically every aspect of our faith has taken on a decidedly humanist slant at the hands of those who chose to make the comfort level of protestants a “pastoral priority.”
BTW – The Fr. Ray Kelly Concert Tour has been wowing audiences for years and was made possible in a large part thanks to the virtue, heroically exercised, of His Holiness Pope Paul VI who gifted to the world the Novus Ordo Missae. Remember that as his cause takes off like a rocket (or is that a scud missal) immediately following the proposed mockery canonizations on April 27th. (May God in His mercy forbid them!)
Someone should have used the fire extinguisher, languishing in the corner, on him.
At least all of this is overt.
Most of the endless repeated habitual abuses that occur within the aberration that is sometimes and ridiculously referred to as the “ordinary form,” are covert. Therefore in my opinion this is less diabolical.
Archbishop Lefebvre, sound shepherd and protector of the Faith and the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, ora pro nobis.
As we say in Ireland, ”Aww now…” (Expresses tiredness dismay, and disapproval.)
(There should be a comma after ‘tiredness’, above.)
And is that a Unity Candle, I spy? Of course… cuz why not?
The sense of the Sacred IS being destroyed by the substitution of feel good emotionalism.
To me, the best and most incredible thing about being in a Catholic Church is the being in the Real Presence of Christ in the Most Holy Sacrament of the altar….His Majestic and Sublime Presence is the most wonderful gift and condescension.How could anyone mindful of the Sacrifice He made for us not conduct themselves with the utmost propriety?
But His Real Presence is just not emphasized enough…especially in NO world, where I dwell.This is deplorable and sacrilegious as well.
Check out the bride in the video above around the 3:50 mark. Is it just me, or does her face have, “What the hell!” written all over it?
‘The people in that wretched video are victims. They don’t know any better.’ Probably the facts of the ground. There is probably polite agony somwhere in the ‘audience’ (and I agree, I think this might be the look on the bride’s face).
–
cistercian said: To me, the best and most incredible thing about being in a Catholic Church is the being in the Real Presence of Christ in the Most Holy Sacrament of the altar….His Majestic and Sublime Presence is the most wonderful gift.
–
and how we are made to look away from this Gift. After all, the only real purpose of a Catholic Church is to house the altar wherein reside the Blessed Sacrament. People can meet anywhere. I’ve run out of ‘polite’ when it comes to feeling ‘agnoized’ with the new church and it’s abominations and desolations. I really do think sometimes that God must have said, ‘let Us depart’ from all at least some ‘catholic’ parishes.
–
p.s. I think this priest forgot he wasn’t at the pub after the wedding which isn’t understandable with Paul VI’s contribution to the dissolution of the Word Incarnate in the life of the ‘Church’.
which IS understandable, that should be. I think the hegelian double-speak of Francis is unfortunately confusing my negatives and positives – after all it’s all the same, eh.
“I really do think sometimes that God must have said, ‘let Us depart’ from all at least some ‘catholic’ parishes.”
Yes, no doubt.
I could have written this blog post myself. Well said, Louie! I agree 100%.
Yes, there is abuse, but it’s also about the focus. The focus isn’t on God or Christ in the Blessed Sacrament. The focus is completely and totally on man, and in this case, Father Kelly and his (somewhat pitchy) voice. Let’s face it, at best he could be a lounge singer. Anyway, there is no mistaking who the center of attention is. Why should this surprise anyone when most churches have no Tabernacle in the sanctuary, and instead, a giant seat where the priest is the center of attention? When he stands at the altar, he is again the center of attention. How he looks, how he smiles, how he “shows” his “love” to the people, all become very important. In the Tridentine Mass, the focus is Christocentric. The priest disappears in his vestments and in the rubrics, becoming ‘alter Christus’ during the Mass. There is no room in the Mass cheap theatrics, which is exactly what this is.
Back in ’86 the scandal of Assisi turned me into a sedevacantist for several years–at least in the internal forum as I never made any outward claims that would have given anyone knowledge of my interior opinion. I do hope that these canonisations of John XXIII and John Paul II–really the canonisation of the Council–does not lead others to that agonising and marginalising ecclesial conclusion that Assisi had on me decades ago. Pray, hope, and do not worry.
Louie writes: “at the hands of those who chose to make the comfort level of protestants a ‘pastoral priority.'”
With this in mind, I was recently surprised to learn of the existence of the “Revised Common Lectionary” (RCL), which Wikipedia describes as a lectionary of Bible readings for use in Protestant worship that is “based on the 1969 Ordo Lectionum Missae, a three-year lectionary produced by the Roman Catholic Church following the reforms of the Second Vatican Council”.
Wikipedia goes on to describe much about the RCL that will be familiar to Novus Ordo attendees. It states, for example, that the structure of readings used on Sundays includes a first reading from the Old Testament, a responsorial Psalm, a second reading from one of the New Testament Letters, and a Gospel reading, all organized into three-year cycles of readings.
It would be interesting to learn more about this subject. The production of the Ordo Lectionum Missae, which apparently meets “the comfort level of Protestants”, would of course have been funded by the collection contributions and widows’ mites of generations of faithful, TLM-assisting, Tridentine-catechized Catholics.
Fr.A, I completely agree with you assessment of this. In fact, it seems to me that this is the fundamental problem with our *entire* religious outlook at present: it is all focussed on this world and somehow getting God to fit into our mold for Him and what we need now rather than on God, with the need to get us to fit into His mold for us. It makes it almost impossible to have a discussion with anyone with that focus because we simply talk past each other. They don’t even understand what I’m talking about, nor do they see what “the big deal” is. It’s so frustrating.
FrA,
–
Thank you for your clear and edifying contributions on this blog. It is a joy to hear from tradition minded priests such as yourself. I hope we will hear more from you in the future, the faithful flock is scattered and confused looking for good shepherds (not hirelings) to lead them to green pastures.
–
I wish all readers a happy and blessed Palm Sunday.
Pax.
My, what a cleverly photoshopped image on top of your blog, there! You have talent, too! But are you being fair? Were the Pharisees fair?
You object to a priest and human being singing in joy in the presence of God at a wedding he himself as a priest standing in for Christ, has just officiated? Would you likewise be such a sour objector had he converted water into wine for this wedding instead? They crucified Christ Himself over things like that, didn’t they. Heaven forbid we break the tradition of being sour in the name of Heavenly joy.
If you are not capable of joy, you are not fit for heaven. May God forgive us for seeking joy in Christ our Bridegroom!
That song was from heavenly joy? It sounded more of a secular joy than heavenly. That sort of music is definitely not proper in a Catholic church, in or outside Mass! It seems to me you don’t have a sense of the Sacred, or else you wouldn’t be defending this outrage! Joy is more found in the chants of the Church or music inspired by it, not secularized songs!!
This is exactly what Louie was addressing in this post. That, unfortunately, too many, perhaps even most, Catholics, haven’t a clue of the sacred anymore. Indeed the secular and the ‘sacred’ are one and the same – in other words there is no sacred for them. It even seems as if the very concept of sacredness is becoming increasingly offensive to them.
Reality check: Sorry to break the news, but you have wittingly or unwittingly lost any sense of the sacred. Pius XII expressly forbade secular music being played in the house of God, and anyone with some sense can clearly see that the music is entirely secular, devoid of any sacredness, and is therefore suited only for wordly purposes. Such music has no place in a Catholic Church. Period.
–
Secondly, you seem to have forgotten that the altar is a sacred space where true sacrifice is offered, wherein the Heavenly Victim is immolated in reparation for the sins of the world and offered to God the Father through the priest. The altar IS NOT a musical stage for the priest to show off his musical talents.
–
“Joy”. Yes, yes, yes, that’s all that matters. No need to worry about the Creator being grievously ofended, he’s washed our sins with his blood (protestant fashion) after all; we are all “saved”. I wonder though, how did Moses react when he encountered God in Sinai? Did he start waving his arms and singing the praises of the Lord in charismatic fashion? Or did he humble himself in the presence of the Most High, knowing his nothingness in front of Him who is infinite?
–
Oh, but aren’t we in the presence of the Lord at the House of God, who resides as a Holy prisoner in the tabernacle? And from failing to fully grasp that fact, every other aspect of the “praxis” in the Church of Man can be well understood. As in the mockery shown by this priest to God.
dear Edu,
I find your comment to be straightforward yet at the same time most poignant. What sorrow the realization of the elements you brought forth causes in the heart of a wretched soul such one as I–who recalls the Holy Sacrifice {in comparison,} “relatively” undefiled as it was in the late 1940’s.
—–
dear FrA,
you wrote so touchingly:
“The priest disappears in his vestments and in the rubrics, becoming ‘alter Christus’ during the Mass.”
Thank you for stating this.
May the Peace of Our Lord Jesus Christ, a Peace not of this world, be to you.
We are merely sheep and we need and love you.
SuzanneL, I believe you are speaking of a more secular “joy” in this case. Remember, what happens at the altar is the re-presentation of the Sacrifice of Calvary. It is the very same sacrifice; it is only in the manner of the offering that it differs. The Sacrifice of Calvary was bloody, while the Sacrifice of the Altar is unbloody; however, it’s the same sacrifice. I am certain that the faithful at Calvary (St. John, the Blessed Mother, and St. Mary Magdalene, and the others) where not singing “joyful,” secular songs as Our Lord was giving His life for our salvation. On the contrary. “And all the multitude of them that were come together to that sight, and saw the things that were done, returned striking their breasts” (Luke 23:48).
***
In your ironically judgmental post, you also reference Cana. That was the wedding celebration; not that wedding itself. A wedding reception is a much different atmosphere than a Nuptial Mass.
Seeing as we are on the subject of “nuchurch”, Fr. Blake asks a poignant question, namely:
“Now why is it that “The Dome of Home” Ss Peter and Paul, New Brighton, St Wilfrids, York and now the iconic St Walburge’s, Preston have been handed over to ‘traddie’ religious? I mean where are the dynamic liberal religious orders? Why is it that these city centre parishes, which obviously are going to need a lot of hard work, to restore and normally have tiny congregations, are so attractive to ‘traddies’ and simply dismissed by others of a more liberal outlook? Why is it ‘traddies’ actually hope to make a go of these places, whilst others just want to shut them down, why this hope?”
—–
“I am the true vine, and my Father is the vinedresser. Every branch in me that bears no fruit he cuts away, and every branch that does bear fruit he prunes to make it bear even more. You are clean already, by means of the word that I have spoken to you. Remain in me, as I in you. As a branch cannot bear fruit all by itself, unless it remains part of the vine, neither can you unless you remain in me. I am the vine, you are the branches. Whoever remains in me, with me in him, bears fruit in plenty; for cut off from me you can do nothing. Anyone who does not remain in me is thrown away like a branch — and withers; these branches are collected and thrown on the fire and are burnt. If you remain in me and my words remain in you, you may ask for whatever you please and you will get it. It is to the glory of my Father that you should bear much fruit and be my disciples. I have loved you just as the Father has loved me. Remain in my love. If you keep my commandments you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commandments and remain in his love.” John 15:1-10
—–
Any wonder that modernists hate John with a passion?
PS Link the the above post here: http://marymagdalen.blogspot.com/2014/04/so-why-traddies-at-preston.html
And one for the ” you just can’t make this stuff up” box: http://wdtprs.com/blog/2014/04/big-puppet-alert-2/
—–
Joy…. 🙁
WOW!! GREAT!! Fantastic performance by FR Kelly..loved it almost as much as the laughable comments on here. So much envy, spite, bitterness and jealousy. You lot need a to get a grip on reality. Lots of big words and self righteous comments. Not sure if you noticed but Church numbers are not exactly rising these days and this guy made it fun and interesting.
Personally I couldn’t care less if it was before, during, or after mass, and with backing from Queen. He was a blast of fresh air and great for the Church. You should focus your attention on abuse victims rather than someone who has dared to do something different and made somebody’s wedding that little bit special.
I completely agree with NJH above. Father Ray Kelly is a gem… a gift from God and may he continue to bring joy with his heartfelt singing. Thank you Father x
Dear NJH and AnnieG: When you enter a Catholic Church you enter into the presence of God. Our Lord Jesus Christ is present, body, blood, soul and divinity in the Hosts reserved in the tabernacle. You do not enter a theater or lounge. Therefore a special sacred decorum is required as you are in the presence of God.
Any Catholic ought to know this and ought to behave accordingly. Elementary decency and courtesy demand this. This goes for all the people but especially for priests and bishops. There is a proper place for “entertainment” and it is not the Church.
“Fun and interesting and blasts of fresh air” is exactly what has caused people to lose faith and walk away from the Church. Those things you can get everywhere 24/7 and belong to the world which will pass away.
For things eternal, and the worship of God at Holy Mass, baptisms, weddings and funerals, we need to pray and ask God’s blessings and mercy. This cannot be done by a clown performing, or people yelling, applauding and whistling.
Whatever happened to common sense, reason and decorum. This event was pure low class. Lord have mercy!
What can I say except “Unbelievable” All this talk about ‘Sacred’ alters and the like. Alters, Spectacular Churches and Rich Robes are Man’s creation. They don’t honour God, they honour Man. The only thing that is ‘Sacred’ is Gods love for his children. Jesus never got hung up on Pomp and Ceremony. He was Carpenter, he could have built himself a Church and an Alter and in the name of God and spent his days in there at such an Alter paying homage to God, but he didn’t. He hung out with all the sinners using his God given talents to bring goodness and God to their pathetic lives. Someone on this forum wrote about a Church being a sacred place where God is present and we should treat it as sacred. What rubbish, God resides everywhere and in us all. Man builds Churches as a place of fellowship and support amongst fellow Man to worship together. If you really want to be with God, go out amongst the sinners and unbelievers. Jesus showed us that. To treat a Man made structure for the purpose of Man to gather together, be it to worship God, with such reverence is just pure Arrogance. Where was Christ’s Church. In dirty streets and slums. I am well off. When I watch my own Children taking things I have given them and using them unselfishly to bring joy to others it makes my heart leap. It is the reason I bothered to have them in the first place. We are all Gods Children and he has blessed each and every one of us with a gift for a reason. Father Kelly honoured that reason. God has also given us free will to choose how we use said gifts. The fact that my own children could use my gifts to them, to bully or belittle others makes the fact that they don’t, extra special. If my Children were to hide out of sight my gifts to them when visitors filled my house instead of sharing, I would be enormously disappointed. Father Kelly didn’t have to do what he did, he could have just stuck to the routine. His body language suggested a Man of great kindness. Jesus was kindness itself. Those people attending the Wedding were visitors to Gods house and Father Kelly shared the gift that God gave him, in the spirit of kindness, to give them some joy. Isn’t that what God wants in our hearts? I watched it and it was beautiful and gave me joy as well. To suggest Father Kelly withhold such a special and precious gift ie: his voice, that God himself has given him, in favour of paying homage to a Man Made structure is just Blasphemy. Look at the big picture people, that Video has gone viral. God’s Child, through Gods own gift has bought Gods glory to an often evil media. The Net. I live in Australia and it reached me. Behold Gods Power, his Father Kelly’s voice has drawn more of us into his house (Via The Net), than your Alter ever could. Your creation ( The Alter) may be significant to the believers, but Gods Creation (Father Kelly’s voice) has reached the sinners. Lets face it, God gave his only Son to reach the sinners so I’d say that’s far more important to him than any man made structure.
Just supposing Queen Elizabeth decided to delight us with a rendition of “Land of Hope and Glory” at the State Opening of Parliament or that Father Kelly’s talent had been for Irish dancing and he decided to grace the ceremony with an interminably long Irish jig around the “table”. Would we then be allowed to express our honest reactions?
It’s good that Protestants are still visiting this site again. There will be much for you to learn. Let’s remember that Christ smashed up the tables and the secular very human and no doubt busselling and warm goings on in the Temple, got out His whip and began to thrash the secularism out of the House of God. But then He was only God Incarnate, so what did He know – not as much as yourself, it would seem.
the carnival of qristendumb continues.
Here’ another one for the Church of Perpetual Innovation that is allegic to ‘just sticking with the ‘routine (so how routine exactly is the Real Presence? and worshipping God Almighty in a manner organically grown for 2000 years?)
–
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jg5rnpZwnI0
“Man builds Churches as a place of fellowship and support amongst fellow Man to worship together.”
–
It is not without good reason that the term, “Church of Man” has been coined and indeed your whole theological perspective seems to point yourself as a member of this anthropocentric “church”.
–
Keep coming back to this site. You’ll have much to learn.
Never ceases to amaze me how some Christians want to squeeze all humour and sense of fun from the life of fellow Christians and non-Christians. No wonder Richard Dawkins has so many followers. I’m a Christian and I love Father Kelly’s immense talent for bringing people to Christ in a novel way. 25 million views on You Tube in just a few days can’t be bad news for Christianity surely? As a minimum it gets people talking about God which has to be great news. By perpetuating an out of date view that only ‘seriousness’ is allowed once you cross the threshold of a church does Christianity no favours at all. I passionately believe we can be serious and respectful at the same time as we are happy and smiling.
But TrevorG, at Holy Mass the very Sacrifice of Calvary is made present to us and there were no happy, smiling, clapping people on Calvary. How can so unfathomable a mystery and gift inspire anything other than profound reverence and gratitude in us?
http://youtu.be/8u12KrgBUWk
We all need a good, hearty laugh sometimes, to keep us from falling into depression. Thank you, NJF, for providing that laugh with your comment. It was a real knee-slapper.
‘Profound reverence and gratitude’ about the ultimate sacrifice of Jesus is accepted without question by me … Father Kelly sang at a wedding – a joyful occasion – people do actually tend to simile and be happy at weddings in my experience so he is in tune with the congregation – if Father Kelly was singing like this at Holy Mass maybe I might have a different view.
So sacredness only in Mass, but outside of Mass, no sacredness?!! This is why people in the Novus Ordo talk during Mass and outside of Mass because they have no sense of the sacred.
And the priest’s job is not “to be in tune with the congregation” but to preach in season and out of season the truths of the faith. I wonder if Fr. Kelly got around to explaining the Sacrament of Matrimony and all that it entails, including the procreation of children, etc.
BTW, a Church is a place specially consecrated to prayer to God and worship, NOT FOR entertainment of the congregation (i don’t know about the new Churches nowadays, though). The fact that the word “Hallelujah” was used doesn’t mean anything, as many songs in the past having sacred text but secular melodies were forbidden in the liturgy (before Vatican II), and I imagine also inside the Church. Correct me if I’m wrong.
From the 1958 Document on Scared music, Chapter III, Part 2:
D. Religious music.
54. The type of music which inspires its hearers with religious sentiments, and even devotion, and yet, because of its special character cannot be used in liturgical functions, is nevertheless worthy of high esteem, and ought to be cultivated in its proper time. This music justly merits, therefore, the title “religious music”.
55. The proper places for the performance of such music are concert halls, theaters, or auditoriums, but not the church, which is consecrated to the worship of God.
However, if none of these places are available, and the local Ordinary judges that a concert of religious music might be advantageous for the spiritual welfare of the faithful, he may permit a concert of this kind to be held in a church, provided the following provisions are observed:
a) The local Ordinary must give his permission for each concert in writing.
b) Requests for such permissions must also be in writing, stating the date of the concert, the compositions to be performed, the names of the directors (organist, and choral director), and the performers.
c) The local Ordinary is not to give this permission without first consulting the diocesan commission of sacred music, and perhaps other authorities upon whose judgment he may rely, and then only if he knows that the music is not only outstanding for its true artistic value, but also for its sincere Christian spirit; he must also be assured that the performers possess the qualities to be mentioned below in paragraphs 97, and 98.
d) Before the concert, the Blessed Sacrament should be removed from the church, and reserved in one of the chapels, or even in the sacristy, is a respectful way. If this cannot be done, the audience should be told that the Blessed Sacrament is present in the church, and the pastor should see to it that there is no danger of irreverence.
e) The main body of the church is not to be used for selling admission tickets or distributing programs of the concert.
f) The musicians, singers, and audience should conduct themselves, and dress in a manner befitting the seriousness, and holiness of the sacred edifice in which they are present.
g) If circumstances permit, the concert should be concluded by some private devotion, or better still, with benediction of the Blessed Sacrament. In this way the devotion, and edification of the faithful, which was the purpose of the concert, will be crowned by a religious service.
Can’t agree with your comment:….”And the priest’s job is not “to be in tune with the congregation” … Surely if a Priest is NOT in touch with the congregation he will be talking to himself in an empty building-is that what God REALLY wants?
I took your meaning to be that the priest will be always adapting to the congregation”s emotions, not the congregation’s real spiritual needs. If I was wrong about your meaning, I apologize. However, the priest is a father; he is not be there to make the congregation feel good; he is there to lead the people to God and Heaven.
Thank you – I understand your point … I guess my point is we have to make church more ‘welcoming’ if we want people to come to God through a ‘building.’ I agree with you completely that we can’t have priests changing ‘willy-nilly’ simply to suit congregations – the word of God must always underpin everything – equally can I suggest there is more than one way to bring people to God and variety is good i.e. there are many ‘different’ ways to “lead the people to God” – thanks for an interesting exchange 🙂
I agree with that, but I cannot agree that Fr. Kelly’s way was suitable, since even outside Mass,whether or not the Holy Sacrament was in the tabernacle (although most Novus Ordo Churches nowadays don’t have tabernacles on the main altar), he was in a Church, which is consecrated to prayer and worship of God. If Fr. Kelly wanted to do something like that, wedding receptions are much more appropriate than a church.
I’m not enough of a Theologian scholar to argue the point – I’m a simple Methodist 🙂 … My main point is that it’s wonderful that Father Kelly is doing something that’s more likely to bring people closer to God than force people further away from God – let’s just agree to disagree – sounds a bit like life
Well, that explains why you and I are opposed. Well, I can’t agree with your approach of “let’s agree to disagree,” but nonetheless, I know I can’t force my ideas. So I’ll end on that note. God be with you.
And with you of course 🙂
Aussie: “All this talk about ‘Sacred’ alters and the like.”
{I was unable to have the “Reply” work properly}
In your post, you have confused two words, multiple times.
Definitions:
Altar (noun): an elevated place or structure, as a mound or platform, at which religious rites are performed or on which sacrifices are offered…
alter (verb): to change; become different or modified.
QuoVadisPetre and TrevorG – That exchange epitomizes what I’d like to see here. I really appreciate it!
I’m certain that I’m not the only one who was following either. It’s instructive to note that among the Catholic voices being raised in defense of Fr. Kelly, Trevor, who is coming at this from a Methodist perspective is in agreement.
What that tells me, and should tell all of you, is that the common thread is not having a fully Catholic understanding of what the sacred liturgy of the Church truly is. For Travis this makes sense. For Catholics, it’s the result of there having been little to no liturgical instruction being offered over the last fifty years.
Holy Mass and the Church’s sacramental rites are not simply the Catholic version of a protestant service; it is an action of Christ who is mystically present and operative in a much more profound way than His promise “where two or three are gathered in my name…”
So, to your point, Travis, please know that the sacred rites of the Catholic Church are not the “apples to apples” equivalent of the Methodist Sunday service. At the same time, they are not the only activities proper to a Catholic parish.
Fr. Kelly has a gift. We’d all agree to that. It can be compellingly used in service to Our Lord to bring people to the faith. There is nothing whatsoever stopping him from using it in the proper venue, in fact, he should. That venue could be in the context of some kind of faith formation activity, a parish mission, or some other event outside of the Church’s liturgical rites.
Thanks again to both of you for your contributions here.
Oh my goodness…why am I the only one here who would rather get a root canal then hear this priest sing? If he has talent, then I’m a unicorn. You don’t attract people to Christ by entertaining them or making them feel all gooey inside. Our Lord did not do that…nor did His apostles. Read “The Life of Christ” by Fulton Sheen. What attracts people to Christ are what attracted them 2000 years ago: TRUTH, courage, wisdom, challenging people to sanctity, authentic love (not the emo kind, but the willing the good and sacrificial one), setting people free and authentic leadership…not some dog and light show. The Catholic Church IS different than any other man made church, for we have the Real Presence, body, blood, soul and divinity of Jesus Christ, God Almighty. Sacred ground. God bless~
You’re in good company my friend… ; )
Amen to your comment.
Have a Blessed Holy Week.
SO many comments above talk about having a sense of humour. We can laugh it up, sing and be groovey vain, boring or just plain obnoxious 167 hours every week. That so many people find it unacceptable the for ONE HOUR, a priest should be a priest and the sacrament rite of matrimony should be just that is very telling. A catholic church has one purpose – to house the Altar of Sacrifice and the Blessed Sacrament. a gathering can take place ANYWHERE.
–
For those who have no clue about what a Catholic Church is for this might help you out:
–
http://angeluspress.org/blog/the-altar-part-ii/
–
p.s. as for the 168 hours a week, it’s the same at Mass for the most – it has become just another hour amidst the 168 where one doesn’t have to have the burden of leaving the worldly behind to encounter the sacred, because, after all the sacred has become politically incorrect in Qristianity.
–
here’s a portion from the above linked article about what an altar is which is the only reason a consecrated Catholic Church exists:
–
The top step actually forms a platform called the suppedaneum in Latin (called a footpace in English, though the Italian word predella is more commonly-used today.) The term suppedaneum actually refers to the board that Our Savior’s nailed feet rested upon while on the cross, a feature prominently seen on most Byzantine-style crucifixes (e.g., the Cross of St. Andrew.) This footrest of sorts allowed the crucifixion victim to push up with his feet so he could exhale to prevent asphyxiating (and hence why the thieves’ legs were broken.) Thus, even the platform on which the altar (Christ) rests upon is highly symbolic as it forms the foot of Calvary where the Holy Sacrifice is renewed in an unbloody fashion.
how good is it or just plain bad is it to be acting like a pub gathering or a kareoke night before the altar?
Sometimes I simply despair at the ‘putting down’ of those who like to make worship ‘joyful’ …. Jesus was a joyful person, continually urging his followers to be joyful. He explains to his disciples, “I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete” (John 15:11)
I’m confused, Trev; are you saying random sec songs are ‘joyful’ during a single special set aside hour in two people’s entire life or not? ‘scuse me, but if a bloke who forgot he was a sacramental priest had done that at anyone’s wedding I know, they would have thought, ‘What a git, and what stranger whom I”ve invited would have though I’d be pleeeaded?’
I’m confused, Trev; are you saying random sec songs are ‘joyful’ during a single special set aside hour in two people’s entire life or not? ‘scuse me, but if a bloke who forgot he was a sacramental priest had done that at anyone’s wedding I know, they would have thought, ‘What a git, and what stranger whom I”ve invited would have though I’d be pleeeased?’
What you call joy, we call, as Louie said, mushy sentimentality, joy from the emotions. That is probably fine for outside church if you like that kind of thing (I personally don’t many times), but for us Catholics, true joy comes from the heart, even in the midst of so much sufferings. For us, Gregorian chant and other kinds of sacred music express the true joy of being a member of the Mystical Body of Christ and expressing true worship of God, not the sappy nonsense we see nowadays in Novus Ordo churches.
Hi Aussie,
I can understand your perspective of thinking that altars, spectacular churches and rich robes are man’s creation. I would like to counter that these things offer a way for us to show love and reverence for Our Lord. Here’s an example: when a man marries a woman, does he give her a ring made of cheap metal, or does he give a ring made of precious metals? It’s the same with showing our love for Our Lord. Here’s another example: You may have heard of st John Mary Vianney. He was a priest in France who was assigned a parish afer he was ordained in which (I think it was right after the revolution) the parishioners were very lukewarm in their faith, and serious and unrepentant sinners were among them. That all changed within a few years, due mainly to St. Vianney’s amazing preaching, in which he strove to turn them away from sin, but also preached God’s love and mercy. What’s so interesting about St. Vianney is that he lived a life of personal poverty – he often slept on the floor, and fasted a lot, and had few furnishings in his living quarters. However, he once stated that one of the best days of his life was when a large box arrived at the parish containing beautiful things for the church – sacred vessels (which would hold the Precious Blood), and others beautiful things for the altar, as well as statues and other items. For St. Vianney, who had such profound love for Our Lord, he wanted only the very best of things for the church in order to honor Him who is our Redeemer and Savior. Beautiful vestments and churches are the same thing – all to the glory and honor of Our Lord. These beautiful are not meant to honor man, and in addition to giving honor to God, they serve as a reminder of what awaits us in Heaven.
Given the sad situation of the Church in Ireland, this situation with Fr. Kelly is not perhaps so unusual. Michael Voris interviewed two young Irish Catholic brothers who recently reverted back to Catholicism, and they do a good job of explaining the crisis of faith in Ireland:
http://www.churchmilitant.tv/platform/index.php?vidID=vort-2014-02-12-a
Surely you accept that one persons ‘nonsense’ can be another persons ‘joy’ – why are you confused? – all I’m saying is this man has brought joy to so many through his creativity – please read the vast majority of comments of non church goers on You Tube – this man has done more in a few days to attract outsiders to church than most ‘traditionalists’ do in a lifetime – give him a break for crying out loud.
Geez, I am amazed at all the negative comments about Fr. Kelly. All I can say is that as I watched it, I thought what a wonderful way to gather in God’s house to celebrate Holy Matrimony two young people. Now it seems to be embroiled in some huge Catholicism debate…glad to see there are so many church scholars out there. All I can say is that I am a 63 year old life-long Catholic and having experienced traditional Catholic celebrations (droll, joyless, somber) it is a joy to experience HIS presence with real joy and yes, laughter and fun. When my son was Baptized 41 years ago, my entire family (about 35 of us at the time) gathered to bring this baby into the Church. The old grouchy priest actually admonished us for being happy telling us (and I do quote) that we “were not at a party. What is wrong with you people. We are here for a sacred event.”
Conversely, I just attended a dear friend’s funeral and the priest shared many funny stories about the departed to illustrate his love of God, family and friends. Where does it say anywhere that sacred is joyless? I am not talking about hyped up over-zealous emotions, but true human emotions brought on by a love of God and his only Son, Jesus…we are moved by the Spirit. Way to go, Fr. Kelly.
Trevor, you’re only looking at the superficial and so do most people, I suspect, who watch that video on Youtube. But numbers isn’t everything; quality is. And the quality of Catholic life in a Novus Ordo setting is in most respects atrocious, according to our views. You may think it fine, but it’s because you are Protestant that you believe. You may never understand this, but true joy for a true Catholic is found in suffering for Christ anything, even if the person doesn’t experience joy (“feel it” if you will). How many people stood at the Cross during Christ’s death? A mere handful.
I do try to understand your views and my comments are not meant to demean any practice or philosophy-I may indeed be looking at it superficially-to begin the journey of belief means some must take a first step-my main point is this is a very creative and positive way to help people make that first step.
Thanks Edu:+) You too! The Triduum begins tomorrow! Can’t wait! God bless~
Joy is a fruit of the HS…it is the result of developing the gifts of the HS which are devoid of emotion. It is a spiritual fruit of the intellect and will. We are to imitate Our Lord, called to be like Him, and I don’t recall Scripture telling us of His “joyful” presentations to pull in people. He spoke truth, He spoke faith and conviction and did so with authority (Luke 4:31-32)…that’s what attracted the people to Him at first. The miracles made Him a huge hit but they all left at the Eucharistic discourse…when it got too much for them. The problem with today’s churches are that they put the emo before intellectual/spiritual. “Faith comes through hearing” (Rom 10:17). We need to stop being pulled into cont’d
the feelings emo cloud for that is a house built on straw. When you start with the intellect, authority, truth and mix it with courage, kindness and sacrifice…you come close to Christ walking this Earth. We have to stop letting our emotions drive the bus, lead us around by the nose and drive us off the cliffs they so love. Our spirits are made of our intellects and wills…not emotions. Emotions will follow like the recalcitrant children they are when we use our wills in placing our intellect first. “Reason informed by faith” sums it all up. Building on truth will help attract the lost when the life storms come…and will help us snuff out the arrows trying to take us out. Joy will be there cont’d
as a constant…not as a one time or varied thrill b/c of a song or light show. We are all wired for truth, it alone sets us free. The building blocks for sanity are not emotions but spiritual gifts and truths which include Piety and Fear of the Lord/Reverence. Once Traditional Catholics feed their intellect, conform and surrender their wills and respond to the graces in the Sacraments, this world will be set aright and new shepherds will emerge to lead the flock home:+) It’s been almost 50 years in the wilderness, time to begin the journey back:+) God bless you all and Happy Triduum! Long Live Christ the King!
I am glad to find a sane view of this. I saw the video on several sites where everyone commenting was gushing over the performance. The few who knew what they were talking about who commented were ganged up on and told “Christians like you are the reason why people leave/hate the Church” blah blah blah.
It’s sad when something as stupid as this exemplifies how far gone the world, and “Christians” are. No sense of reverence, all about feeeeelings, and think they know what God would approve of in the Holy of Holies. 2000 years of tradition be damned.
“The few who knew what they were talking about” …. WOW!!! …. With respect that is so arrogant!… And you wonder why such views are ‘ganged up on’???!!!! … Am I expected to believe that you and your ilk are blessed with some profound knowledge making you the ONLY people who “know what they are talking about” …. By implication anyone who has an alternative view to yours are by YOUR definition “INSANE”? – So much for faith in your fellow Christians …. Give me strength! …. I comfort myself knowing we are ALL made in God’s image and all opinions are valid – including those of the ‘INSANE’ 🙂
Trevor, you must understand that Catholics (the ones following Traditions of the Church at least) believe they have the only Truth, Jesus Christ, and that unfortunately people not believing the same as Catholic, despite their protestations of being faithful to Jesus Christ, are in danger of damnation. It’s not a happy topic to speak about, but Hell is there, and for us Catholics, those who have serious sin on their souls or reject doctrines of the Church out of malice, etc. (excluding invincible ignorance) go there. As for “faith in fellow Christians,” Jesus Himself complainingly asked will he find faith when he comes back, directly implying a great loss of faith among even many Catholics. St. Paul himself speaks of a great apostasy.
I just find it hard to accept that some consider themselves ‘better’ than others – we are ALL sinners surely? and God certainly loves us all
I think TrevorG is referring to, correct me if I’m wrong, opinions on the video of Father Kelly. What QuoVadisPetre is referring to is the teaching of the Catholic Church that it alone possesses the fullness of divine revelation, and that only the Catholic Church was founded by Jesus Christ for the salvation of mankind. All others were founded by men. I believe you said you were Methodist, correct? That religion was founded by John Wesley, who himself remained a minister of the Church of England (Anglican), which was started by King Henry VIII after putting away his first wife. In other words, there are no religious truths found outside the Church. TrevorG, no one is deny that we are sinners. We believe Our Blessed Mother was conceived without sin and never committed sin, but the rest of us…
***
I will pray for you, TrevorG. Please pray for me, a sinning mortal.
Of course I will pray for you – its not a competition about who is more or less important in God’s eyes – we are all loved equally by God – even us Methodists 🙂
That’s where you’re wrong, Trevor! God loves us all, but he doesn’t love us all equally!! Some He gives different gifts and graces, to others not so much. If He loved us all equally, he would give everyone the same gifts. But no, He doesn’t. The difference is that the more He gives, the more He expects. That is why to us Catholics, He expects more of us, and if we fail, we fall lower than the non-Catholic. Judas was the archetypical example of this.
His performance and how it relates to the Church and Mass depends on what was in his heart at the time. If it was to further his singing career that was very wrong; if it was to celebrate the sacrament of Marriage then it was a gift. I believe many of you here would be horrified if you ever went to a Portuguese Roman Catholic service, or a Polka Mass and other cultures; there are many ways to CELEBRATE the Mass. Music can be and is a Celebration of the Mass. As I get older I try to think about what Jesus would do and accept as he lived his life then and take that if he were living in the modern day. The Catholic Church has suffered so greatly the past years; this Priest singing in the video, along with Pope Francis’ mission to bring people back to humbleness and focus on how Christ lived his life has done wonders going towards healing, and helping to bring others back into the fold, or introducing them into the fold of the Catholic Faith. Everyone commenting here should see the series “Catholicism” on DVD. Everything was created in God’s image; the Church does not live within four walls it is everywhere and in every thing. There is not a Church law or stance taken, except on here that chastises those who celebrate the Mass or Sacraments. I don’t know if you are able to watch the Pope during his weekly audiences, or saw the clip of the little boy who came forward during one of his services, the Pope is a people Pope; he is about celebrating those who are close to Christ, being with the People and about bringing People home to the Church. It is not for us to judge; the Mass is celebrated in many different ways and forms. What this Priest gave to this couple was a gift; it was sung at an appropriate time during the Mass, at the end and before the final Blessing. Please, I ask that we as Roman Catholics begin to not be so critical in judging others, instead focusing on ourselves and how our words, actions and thoughts are Christ like. It is after all our purpose for being here. My Faith has been tested many times; I ask all of you to put down the weapons when it comes to those on your side, and really fight the forces of Satan in the real world. It’s up to God to judge and not us humans; God needs us to fight the forces of evil in this world which is very strong. Please, lets put the efforts where they belong. There are many ways the Mass is celebrated depending on where you are in the world, but the common ground is that it is celebrated with the followers of Christ; the Consecration of the Eucharist is what’s important and not to be sacrileged.
Trevor, you are right. God DOES love all people equally. God will not judge us all equally but he loves us all equally. There is a huge difference. What leaves me horrified are some of the comments on here. We are ALL sinners, we were born with sin. Not one of us has the right to be judgmental or elevate ourselves above another. Methodists believe in the same God and Jesus Christ as Catholics. Sadly Protestants are missing out on the wonderful celebration of the Mass and what a gift Christ gave us by the sharing of his body and blood. What I have read on here is that Catholics are judging other Catholics, which is truly sad. I Pray for all of you that you can find that spirit of Christ. Remember that Jesus Christ did not enter anywhere with a sense of one person being less loved than another. If one can point out an instance of that anywhere I would be very happy to know this.
I agree with you NJH and LaraLu. The front pewers as I like to call them are some of the biggest hypocrites in the Church. They are self righteous, judgmental, but commit sins and at times larger sins that those who sit in the back or don’t feel as if they are worthy to come in. Humbleness is what Jesus Christ is about. He lived his life and died as a humble man.
What has caused people to leave the Faith, is the non-forgiving judmentalness by those who think they have their ticket to heaven already printed, along with the exclusiveness of those who shun others. Where has the Vatican said that this type of celebration is wrong? Being disrespectful is one thing; however, as long as it is related to the Mass or Sacraments being celebrated is tolerable. Over the years, I have actually heard that some who are Church going Catholics in good standing aren’t allowed to join Catholic societies because they are not deemed good enough. Oh my goodness, the Blessed Virgin Mary calls us to Pray for souls to convert and come close to God; yet some Catholics are the ones pushing them away via their judgmentalness. This makes no sense to me, and seriously this goes against what Mary is asking us to do and what Christ lived and died for. Pre-Vatican II and since we are called to bring others home to the Catholic Faith but I see many Catholics judging and pushing Catholics and other away. Reverence and respect is commanded; however, humanness is also a presence too.
So Denise, are you making a point that those around the world who are Catholics who celebrate the Mass in a basement with basics or out in the desert with makeshift altars are celebrating less? How about the Catholics who get married with no rings or cheap metals because that’s all they can afford have less of a Matrimonial bond? Seriously, do you think that God even judges the value of what is used to celebrate the wonderful Sacraments and Mass we have? These are earthly things you are pointing to, you are stuck in the fact that the Church is earthly and should consist of earthly goods. I have seen and been to Mass at homeless Missions where what is used is what they have available. Is this any less of a Mass? Africa is the area with the largest growing Catholic population; they fight terror of being Martyred for their Faith; do you really think that God is going to judge the value of their Faith and celebration because of the material goods they use to celebrate the Mass? First world Catholics really need to check what is valued and important as they live and celebrate their Faith. Clue #1 The material things are just that, vessels to be used, but they are not important to God.
Let me note, I am NOT Roman Catholic. When I was a lad, and that’s now many, many years ago, it was suggested to me that Heaven would be like a church service – communicating with God, singing hymns and generally enjoying the time spent with God. The follow-on concept that i was supposed to figure out for myself was that if I didn’t enjoy the church service, I probably wouldn’t enjoy Heaven all that much. Whatever.
Please forgive me if my terminology is incorrect, I certainly mean no offense. I’m trying to understand. My question here is what is the Conservative Roman Catholic concept of Heaven? Since one would actually be with Christ, would He share His Body and Blood with you? Would that be the high point of the Heavenly experience – being ONE with Christ there? Would there be joyful singing? Would there be laughter or only “reverent joy?” Would there be, as suggested here for the wedding celebration, a holy side and a more secular side – one for the ultimate Holiness of sharing the Body and Blood of Christ that replaces the Miracle of the Mass and then another place where you express joy and love (like the wedding celebration), but not the intensely Holy kind? Thanks
QuoVadiePatre, you beat me to it. St. Thomas Aquinas teaches that God does not love equally. They are his graces, and he can give them to whom he chooses. Yes, God loves us all infinitely, but not equally.
***
“In another way on the part of the good itself that a person wills for the beloved. In this way we are said to love that one more than another, for whom we will a greater good, though our will is not more intense. In this way we must needs say that God loves some things more than others. For since God’s love is the cause of goodness in things, as has been said (2), no one thing would be better than another, if God did not will greater good for one than for another.” — St. Thomas Aquinas
***
St. Augustine says (Tract. in Joan. cx): “God loves all things that He has made, and amongst them rational creatures more, and of these especially those who are members of His only-begotten Son Himself.”
Summer, you are wrong. If God loved all people equally, all would be like the Blessed Virgin Mary. But no, not all are. The more holy a person is, the more God loves Him. Thus God loved the Blessed Virgin Mary above every other creature, and His only Son above the Blessed Virgin. This is theology, pure and simple.
Summerlove, you can’t seem to grasp the sense of the sacred. Of course we would be horrified at Polka Masses and the such, because no one does not have the authority to innovate in the liturgy at his own whim. When anyone tried to innovate in the Old Testament, they were punished promptly. After Jesus’ death, people doing that were probably at first let go. But sooner or later, they were punished if they didn’t repent.
JimA, for Catholics, Heaven is beyond anything we can ever imagine. Happiness to happiness. Seeing God face to face. He is ever the same, but our understanding of Him is ever new, since we can never fully understand Him as He understands Himself. Seeing old friends and saints increasing your accidental happiness. Whoever said Heaven is like a Church services doesn’t know s/he is talking about. St. Paul himself stated that no one can ever imagine the rewards God gives to those who are faithful to Him!
The 1958 document and sacred music. And your prejudices against traditional practices are showing. Whoever said any of us assumes we already have a printed ticket to Heaven. What you have been taught seems to not be true Catholicism. Everyone must make some sort of judgment. There are standards in liturgy, even in the Novus Ordo. Fr. Kelly broke even those standards!! The fact that no one is enforcing the standards doesn’t mean they aren’t there!
Lloks like quite a few people here have confirmed Louie’s views: many Catholic have lost the sense of the sacred and think anything goes, just as long as they are entertained, or “feeling” joy! All I can say is God help you to truly understand the the liturgy is the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, not a performance!!
Same argument as the Modernists who want to go back to using ordinary glass or wooden chalices! God doesn’t need any of those materials, yes, but it’s the same thing that Mary Magdalen did: using expensive perfume to anoint Our Lord. Nothing is too good for Our Lord; thus, the best materials one can find, such as gold, silver, jewels, etc. Not because He needs them, but because we want to adorn His worship with the best things we can give Him!
Sou Alex Silva tenho 38 anos de idade moro numa pequena cidade chamada Palmital do interior de São Paulo Brasil e depois de assistir a todos os 30.789.594 acessos deste vídeo de Fr. Ray Kelly vejo que é alem de um exemplo de sacerdote um homem incrivel e possuidor de uma vóz encantadora. Aqui em nossa Diocese de Assis Brasil ja temos padres que cantam lindamente como Fr. Ray Kelly em todas as missas, cada um louve o senhor com o dom que este mesmo Deus lhe deu, para aqueles negativistas quer exigira da igreja uma imagem severa sejam mais diplomatas, Fr. Kelly cantou lindamente e em nenhum momento ele tomou o lugar de Jesus pois Jesus sabe de todas as nossas intenções Jesus nos conhece por completo é o homem que não conhece a Deus por completo e fica dizendo que Deus acharia isso ou aquilo é o mesmo que querer colocar na boca de Deus as palavras, mas Deus é maior que tudo isso. Na Santa escritura diz Louvemos a Deus com canticos e louvores de alegria, não vivemos mais na idade da pedra nós evoluimos e a igreja tem que evoluir tambem. Fr. Kelly é um exemplo de sacerdote um exemplo de pai de ser humano pois é disso que precisamos de padres (sacerdotes ) que estejam proximos dos leigos e não distantes. Fr. Kelly em nenhum momento fez teatro ele esta sendo sal e luz o sal que estava faltando nesta igreja para temperar as nossas vidas com celebrações festivas mais alegres e encantadoras, mas pelos comentarios acima vejo que aqui ha muitos invejosos que louvam a Deus com a boca mas suas mentes estão impuras e seus corações estão distantes dele estes invejosos estão corrompidos como que por traças e devem se entregar ao Deus verdadeiro para se perdoarem a sí próprios pela má lingua pecadora os invejosos que possuem linguas que só sabem julgar que vê o feio onde só a beleza. As minhas orações são para que o senhor sempre continue realizando in concert nas missas com sua vóz belíssima encantando multidões o próprio jesus tambem foi julgado por aqueles que viviam rezando. Fr. Ray Kelly algumas pessoas não o compreenderam, pois a compreenção as vezes leva-se tempo mas no mundo o senhor é conhecido com mais de trinta milhoes de acessos parabéns continue assim eposte mais vídeos para que possamos admiralo com sua belíssima vóz dom que Deus lhe deu. Meu facebook AlexAnhumas
Eu Alex Silva gostaria de conhece-lo e apertar a sua mão, mas moro no Brasil um pouco distante…
You all need to lighten up. You can’t see beyond rules, rules, rules. Who made all those rules? Man did. I’m sure Jesus would be delighted to see a priest who can truly relate to the people instead of being all caught up in each movement and each word. Jesus came to Cana, Mary told Him that the wine at the reception was low, He listened to His mother, and, voila, there was wine. Ordinary people love Fr. Ray because he touches their humanity.